Has Tyson lost his power?.

[red rose]

I thought that was the case after the mcbride fight. But after the sanders exhibition tyson looks like he still has the power he had in his prime.

[barry]

>>>You know what really I think that the heavyweights are too big for mike now. They are so much bigger than him that they don't even need skill.<<<

Sorry, but that's clearly, very clearly not the problem! The problem is simple...Tyson is about 15, or 16 years past his prime and about 10 of those years Tyson has been completely shot as a fighter...it's certainly not the lazy, overweight, lard-ass heavyweights of today who have a hard time even going eight, or ten rounds against journeymen, much less an actual heavyweight who is ranked!

If Tyson was in his prime he would be blowing away every one of the top heavyweights out there today...all of them...two, or three a night if he wanted...no the actual problem is that Tyson should have retired and should have stayed retired around 1992, but the sad thing about the heavyweights of today...if Tyson just put a little focus into training he could make the rankings and not because he is still so good, but because the division is just sooo bad!

[scottmallon]

Tyson's power came from his hand speed. As he is past his prime, he no longer has this. So his punches aren't as sharp and are more thudding blows than the crisp, fast punches that helped make him a champion.

[HomicideHenry]

Let's take alot of things into consideration, ok?

-Tyson hates fighting, so he's certainly not going to show the extra flare that he had 'once upon a time'. He's openly said that people ain't going to see 'Iron Mike' but simply Tyson.

-He weighs 245 pounds ffs. He's been inactive, had no sparring, all he's been doing is boxing a few rounds here and there with punch mitts. He's also admitted to have picked up smoking. Plus throw in that his 'prime' was before the Douglas loss and then throw in how he's 40, so yeah.

-Sanders was wearing headgear. Although headgear wasn't made for padding to soften blows, it still makes a bit of difference. Plus the men were wearing 16oz gloves.

-It was FOUR rounds. And it was an exhibition, doesn't matter who wins or losses, it's merely a hyped up sparring session.

-Tyson knocked down Sanders in the first round. And before two minutes was up he rocked Sanders and PICKED up Sanders before he hit the canvas. The kayo could have happened right then and there. The crowd booed Tyson when he did that, but I think Tyson was trying to show he wasn't "Iron Mike" anymore, needed more rounds, and make a better show of it.

-All throughout the fight Sanders couldn't make an effective attack, and this was a guy who knocked out Oleg Maskaev and certainly a better fighter than McBride whom Tyson lost to in his last pro bout. Tyson looked like he was carrying him.

Did Tyson lose his power? He has lost a bit of it for years. He is a brute as it is anyways, he can bench 300 pounds in the gym. But Tyson's true power was channeling his physical power through the speed of his fists, as well as putting his body weight behind every punch.

After Tyson hooked up with Don King, Tyson became more of a head hunter, out went the effective body attacks and head movement etc. It's been only since losing to Holyfield the first time that Tyson more or less used his NAME to generate cash flow. He can still punch like the devil, but it was speed that made him phenomenal.

[Andy Mac]

More pertinent is, Has he finally lost his marbles yet?

[silkov]

He should stay out of the ring, his speech has changed, far more husky and whispery, dropping letters when he talks.... he's been washed up for 10 years now but theres still guys wondering whether he's lost his power??!... :x 8)

[NYY2424]

doubt it! thats one thing that you really dont lose... speed he has though!

[enrique]

Jose Ribalta -who fought them all- told me that Tyson was not the hardest puncher he ever faced, that others - Bonecrusher Smith for example- hit much harder than Tyson. Cooney- whom Jose sparred with- was also a much harder banger.

Ribalta said that Tyson did have a plus that Bone crusher did not. Tyson threw a lot and mixed his punches better. As Jose explained it, the harder punchers would throw one or two and plod on, while Tyson -at his peak- would throw five or six, going from body to head and back down.

Also, when he was younger and faster, the speed played a factor in the power momentum of his punches.

I'm not saying he's a powder puff. Any heavyweight can hurt you with a single shot, but the mentally unmotivated, shot fighter he is today can not put together a power combination with the speed he once had...

Oh, and the few marbles he had.... gone, adios, goodbye. Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs...

[red rose]

Jose Ribalta -who fought them all- told me that Tyson was not the hardest puncher he ever faced, that others - Bonecrusher Smith for example- hit much harder than Tyson. Cooney- whom Jose sparred with- was also a much harder banger.

Ribalta said that Tyson did have a plus that Bone crusher did not. Tyson threw a lot and mixed his punches better. As Jose explained it, the harder punchers would throw one or two and plod on, while Tyson -at his peak- would throw five or six, going from body to head and back down.

Also, when he was younger and faster, the speed played a factor in the power momentum of his punches.

I'm not saying he's a powder puff. Any heavyweight can hurt you with a single shot, but the mentally unmotivated, shot fighter he is today can not put together a power combination with the speed he once had...

Oh, and the few marbles he had.... gone, adios, goodbye. Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs...

bonecrusher smith hit much harder than tyson . fornicate off .

[silkov]

Jose Ribalta -who fought them all- told me that Tyson was not the hardest puncher he ever faced, that others - Bonecrusher Smith for example- hit much harder than Tyson. Cooney- whom Jose sparred with- was also a much harder banger.

Ribalta said that Tyson did have a plus that Bone crusher did not. Tyson threw a lot and mixed his punches better. As Jose explained it, the harder punchers would throw one or two and plod on, while Tyson -at his peak- would throw five or six, going from body to head and back down.

Also, when he was younger and faster, the speed played a factor in the power momentum of his punches.

I'm not saying he's a powder puff. Any heavyweight can hurt you with a single shot, but the mentally unmotivated, shot fighter he is today can not put together a power combination with the speed he once had...

Oh, and the few marbles he had.... gone, adios, goodbye. Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs...

bonecrusher smith hit much harder than tyson . smeg off .

I'd agree that for pure power Bonecrusher hit harder or at least as hard as Tyson, and if you knew much about boxing you'd know what Enrique is talking about. Mike Weaver is another who hit harder than Tyson, and Shavers and Coetzee. What Tyson had over these guys was hand speed and the combinations that he used... once he became a single punch fighter he was just average in world class...

[overhand_right]

I feel embarrassed when a class act like Enrique comes on to this board and shares his personal experiences with fighters, and gets greeted with profanity from this childish poster.

What Ribalta said makes a lot of sense. A lot of guys hit harder or as hard as Tyson- Bruno, Bonecrusher, Cooney, Weaver etc, what these immature Tysonites cant get their head around is that we're pointing out that Tyson also had speed & combination punching in his day, something the others lacked.

Tyson laid out very few top line heavies with one shot as say Weaver did Coetzee etc.

[Ezzard]

I feel embarrassed when a class act like Enrique comes on to this board and shares his personal experiences with fighters, and gets greeted with profanity from this childish poster.

What Ribalta said makes a lot of sense. A lot of guys hit harder or as hard as Tyson- Bruno, Bonecrusher, Cooney, Weaver etc, what these immature Tysonites cant get their head around is that we're pointing out that Tyson also had speed & combination punching in his day, something the others lacked.

Tyson laid out very few top line heavies with one shot as say Weaver did Coetzee etc.

Pretty much sums up how I feel too. Enrique knows boxing inside-out and he's a great poster. I don't know who hit hardest but the argument makes sense.

I'd also add that Tyson also had great accuracy to go with the speed and combination punching.

[mrbassie]

Jose Ribalta -who fought them all- told me that Tyson was not the hardest puncher he ever faced, that others - Bonecrusher Smith for example- hit much harder than Tyson. Cooney- whom Jose sparred with- was also a much harder banger.

Ribalta said that Tyson did have a plus that Bone crusher did not. Tyson threw a lot and mixed his punches better. As Jose explained it, the harder punchers would throw one or two and plod on, while Tyson -at his peak- would throw five or six, going from body to head and back down.

Also, when he was younger and faster, the speed played a factor in the power momentum of his punches.

I'm not saying he's a powder puff. Any heavyweight can hurt you with a single shot, but the mentally unmotivated, shot fighter he is today can not put together a power combination with the speed he once had...

Oh, and the few marbles he had.... gone, adios, goodbye. Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs...

bonecrusher smith hit much harder than tyson . smeg off .

I understand what he's getting at, Tyson's spectacular kos weren't just because of brute force, he was so quick and such a master of angles that he could hit a guy as hard as he could without him seeing the punch coming. Also in his best years it was the combos which did the damage, he punched hard in two's and three's, not loading up on big swings

[dempseyfire]

Jose Ribalta -who fought them all- told me that Tyson was not the hardest puncher he ever faced, that others - Bonecrusher Smith for example- hit much harder than Tyson. Cooney- whom Jose sparred with- was also a much harder banger.

Ribalta said that Tyson did have a plus that Bone crusher did not. Tyson threw a lot and mixed his punches better. As Jose explained it, the harder punchers would throw one or two and plod on, while Tyson -at his peak- would throw five or six, going from body to head and back down.

Also, when he was younger and faster, the speed played a factor in the power momentum of his punches.

I'm not saying he's a powder puff. Any heavyweight can hurt you with a single shot, but the mentally unmotivated, shot fighter he is today can not put together a power combination with the speed he once had...

Oh, and the few marbles he had.... gone, adios, goodbye. Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs...

Other fighters who have faced him have said this, and one can see from the fights he's had. Tyson was without a doubt a very hard puncher, but his power on an all time level became highly over-rated due to the fact that he scored a lot of knockouts as champion when he overwhelmed opponents with his aggressive attack. But in terms of pure punching power, I have no doubt the likes of Dempsey, Shavers, Liston, Weaver, Lewis, even David Tua hit harder than Tyson.

[Ezzard]

Jose Ribalta -who fought them all- told me that Tyson was not the hardest puncher he ever faced, that others - Bonecrusher Smith for example- hit much harder than Tyson. Cooney- whom Jose sparred with- was also a much harder banger.

Ribalta said that Tyson did have a plus that Bone crusher did not. Tyson threw a lot and mixed his punches better. As Jose explained it, the harder punchers would throw one or two and plod on, while Tyson -at his peak- would throw five or six, going from body to head and back down.

Also, when he was younger and faster, the speed played a factor in the power momentum of his punches.

I'm not saying he's a powder puff. Any heavyweight can hurt you with a single shot, but the mentally unmotivated, shot fighter he is today can not put together a power combination with the speed he once had...

Oh, and the few marbles he had.... gone, adios, goodbye. Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs...

Other fighters who have faced him have said this, and one can see from the fights he's had. Tyson was without a doubt a very hard puncher, but his power on an all time level became highly over-rated due to the fact that he scored a lot of knockouts as champion when he overwhelmed opponents with his aggressive attack. But in terms of pure punching power, I have no doubt the likes of Dempsey, Shavers, Liston, Weaver, Lewis, even David Tua hit harder than Tyson.

Agreed

Dempsey was also an expert at utilising punching angles.

The brute force behind a punch is only part oft he story.

[Eric the Viking]

-Tyson hates fighting, so he's certainly not going to show the extra flare that he had 'once upon a time'. He's openly said that people ain't going to see 'Iron Mike' but simply Tyson.

So we get to pay to see "Tin Mike", then? There's a Wizard of Oz joke in there somewhere...

[enrique]

The Tyson you see today is a freak show and he is peddling himself as a freak show. He is attempting to reinvent himself a la George Foreman, but George had a real metamorphososis in his life and the change in his life was a maturity that was not faked.

With Tyson you get the feeling that he is conning, trying to be liked, acting without real remorse.

It's sad, because with his original management and upbringign he could have been a great champion, a role model and lived his retirement years as an icon.

Instead, he's just a thug whose performance as a fighter will be judged by his defeats -to a good but not great Buster D- and his acts of temporary -or maybe permanent insanity- chewing ears, fouling, cursing, getting into street brawls and behaving like a complete idiot.

John Greenleaf Whittier or was it Emerson? said: "Of all the sad words of tounge or pen/ the saddest are these/ It might have been.

Good obituary for Iron Mike.

[red rose]

I feel embarrassed when a class act like Enrique comes on to this board and shares his personal experiences with fighters, and gets greeted with profanity from this childish poster.

What Ribalta said makes a lot of sense. A lot of guys hit harder or as hard as Tyson- Bruno, Bonecrusher, Cooney, Weaver etc, what these immature Tysonites cant get their head around is that we're pointing out that Tyson also had speed & combination punching in his day, something the others lacked.

Tyson laid out very few top line heavies with one shot as say Weaver did Coetzee etc.

not true tyson laid out berbick,holmes,spinks,willams,botha,douglas,saverese,seldon,mcneely,
tillman,stewart and tubbs with one punch. Who did weaver ever lay out with one punch . If tysons power came from his speed then how come he was able to lay out t rex sanders with 16 ounce gloves and headgear. Granted sanders got up but many times during the exhibition tyson had to hold up sanders from falling after putting him on queer street with a killer right hand and sanders has a very good chin he has seldom being put on the canvas during his professional career.

[The Great John L]

If tysons power came from his speed then how come he was able to lay out t rex sanders with 16 ounce gloves and headgear. Granted sanders got up but many times during the exhibition tyson had to hold up sanders from falling after putting him on queer street with a killer right hand and sanders has a very good chin he has seldom being put on the canvas during his professional career.

Did you actually pay to see the Tyson-Sanders exhibition?

[enrique]

Red Rose, most of those guys you mention Tyson stopped when he was young ...and fast.

Some in the list, like Mc Neeley are not impressive or known for their sturdy chins.

Look, I'm telling you what Ribalta said and he fought them all and beat a couple. I'm not saying Tyson does not punch hard. He does. What I'm saying is he punched hard because he was fast, combined well and that, plus a hard punch combined to provide KO's.

I'm also saying that Tyson was not Shavers or Foreman as far as power is concerned.

As far as comparing him with Bone Crusher.... well, take it from Ribalta. All theory and conjecture aside, I have to believe the guy that took the punches from both and Ribalta states that the hardest hitter he faced was James Smith.

[red rose]

Red Rose, most of those guys you mention Tyson stopped when he was young ...and fast.

Some in the list, like Mc Neeley are not impressive or known for their sturdy chins.

Look, I'm telling you what Ribalta said and he fought them all and beat a couple. I'm not saying Tyson does not punch hard. He does. What I'm saying is he punched hard because he was fast, combined well and that, plus a hard punch combined to provide KO's.

I'm also saying that Tyson was not Shavers or Foreman as far as power is concerned.

As far as comparing him with Bone Crusher.... well, take it from Ribalta. All theory and conjecture aside, I have to believe the guy that took the punches from both and Ribalta states that the hardest hitter he faced was James Smith.

well get this tubbs fought smith and tyson and he says that tyson hits harder than smith . michael spinks faced gerry cooney and he says that tyson hit harder than cooney.

[enrique]

That just goes to show you how subjective boxing is. To me, Tyson is not even in my top ten heavyweights. I do think he's the most vulgar, low life that ever wore the crown.

[HomicideHenry]

The Tyson you see today is a freak show and he is peddling himself as a freak show. He is attempting to reinvent himself a la George Foreman, but George had a real metamorphososis in his life and the change in his life was a maturity that was not faked.

With Tyson you get the feeling that he is conning, trying to be liked, acting without real remorse.

It's sad, because with his original management and upbringign he could have been a great champion, a role model and lived his retirement years as an icon.

Instead, he's just a thug whose performance as a fighter will be judged by his defeats -to a good but not great Buster D- and his acts of temporary -or maybe permanent insanity- chewing ears, fouling, cursing, getting into street brawls and behaving like a complete idiot.

John Greenleaf Whittier or was it Emerson? said: "Of all the sad words of tounge or pen/ the saddest are these/ It might have been.

Good obituary for Iron Mike.

I actually compare this exhibition tour in the same line and reasoning of Joe Louis'. When Joe retired and did his exhibition tour, it wasn't for making a 'come back' against the elite and winning back a title. Simply money and nothing more. Let's face it, Tyson is $300 million dollars in debt, the LAST thing on his mind, I am sure, is becoming a champion again, let alone a 'force' in boxing.

Boxing is the only thing he knows, and whether he likes fighting or not, its the only way he could make some sort of income. It may be called a 'freak show' to those who hate the man, and may even draw sympathy from those who love him, but I like to think of it this way:

-If he is planning on a future comeback, certainly fighting a bunch of stiffs and middle of the road fighters, is a great way to not only keep your name in the public eye, but keeps you in shape.

Remember when he fought Clifford Etienne? Blew him away in a single round, and Tyson said 'I need more rounds'. Then came the knee blowing out against glass jawed Danny Williams, and then came the quit against McBride.

-Who is it for us to say he shouldn't make his living this way? With the exception of Marciano who got out on top, every fighter has hit bottom and did whatever they could to survive. Tyson is lucky in the aspect that he is still as popular as he was in the 80's, even if he's just a name now.

For all these 'do-gooders' who talk on his behalf and even criticise Tyson, I suggest if everybody is so damned concerned or obliged to say whatever they want, why don't you all make a MIKE TYSON FUND just like you all do for Greg Page and other misguided/financially destitute/injured boxers, just so you can sleep easier at night?

ffs...everybody keeps going on 'he's lost his power' HE'S FORTY FFS, he hates boxing, he's out of shape, he is only doing it for the money. end of story. Quit comparing him to his old self in the 80's, whether he hit harder than Bonecrusher Smith and Coetzee. He isn't THAT Tyson anymore and hasn't been for years.

We ain't talking a prime Tyson. If we were, I could throw in the argument that Marciano hit harder than Joe Louis, because one of their sparring partners said Marciano hit harder than Louis with one punch than Joe could do with four-five. But we ain't.

I don't know what you people sincerly look for in this World Tour. That he'll come out of retirement after 50 exhibitions, take on Klitschko, Liakhovich, Valuev, Maskaev and be undisputed champion of the world again? If you all are expecting something grand, don't count on it.

Leave the man alone.

[overhand_right]

Red Rose-

Can you offer a source or citation of those comments supposedly made by Tubbs or Spinks?

Im a major fan of both men and i have followed/read anything regarding them for a decade & i also get the feeling i am a lot older than you, but somehow i have missed these statements from both men.

Please confirm where we can find these comments Tubbs and Spinks supposedly made.

Until you do, im sure everybody on this forum will go along with Enrique and the expert upclose experience of Jose Ribalta, both of whom have infinitley more credibility round here than you.

As for selling Tysons power on knocking down a shot, obese one-eyed journeyman in T-Rex Sanders...? Well thats about as bad as listing Peter McNeeleys name in a list of fighters that Tyson KOd.

[overhand_right]

not true tyson laid out berbick,holmes,spinks,willams,botha,douglas,saverese,seldon,mcneely,
tillman,stewart and tubbs with one punch. Who did weaver ever lay out with one punch . If tysons power came from his speed then how come he was able to lay out t rex sanders with 16 ounce gloves and headgear. Granted sanders got up but many times during the exhibition tyson had to hold up sanders from falling after putting him on queer street with a killer right hand and sanders has a very good chin he has seldom being put on the canvas during his professional career.

Just to further pick apart Red Rose:

Berbick- i guess this qualifies as a 1 punch KO
Holmes- 1 punch? what fight were you watching? Did you watch the fight?
Spinks- yep, 1 punch KO, Spinks never saw it coming.
Williams- hardly a KO
Botha- yep, 1 punch KO, a beauty too!
Douglas- erm..... this is a bit of a strange one since Tyson was the man concussed & counted out.
Savarese- 1 punch? what fight were you watching? Did you watch the fight? Tyson was famously beating up on an upright Savarese at the refs intervention.
Seldon- anyone round here think Seldon was KOd? Me neither.
McNeeley- well for a start he wasn't even KOd but i dont want to think about this putrid PR-gone-wrong fight for a second longer.
Tillman- Tyson KOs the journeyman Tillman with 1 shot! Hurrah!
Stewart- 1 punch? what fight were you watching? Did you watch the fight?
Tubbs- finally, a bonafide 1 punch KO!

So of the 12 fights you listed, FIVE were actually correct, thats less than half! (although Berbick and Spinks had already been down.. So do they count?)

Congratulations!