Tyson vs the great heavyweights before Sonny Liston

[elmersalsa]

I got a debate here and want the opinions of you all of matches of the great heavyweight Mike Tyson vs the great heavyweights of the past before Sonny Liston.

As I see the tapes of the great heavys of the past and then the Tyson tapes that I got on video, I cannot phantom those heavyweights beat Iron Mike. They were too small and some of them too slow for Mike Tyson speed.

For example, Floyd Patterson NEVER exceeded 195 pounds in his prime. I imagine now him fighting a Tyson circa the late 80s or early 90s when Iron Mike was weighing 215 pounds in his prime. That is a bout a 30 pound weight advantage. Tyson would have KOd him just like Sonny did, and probably faster.

Rocky Marciano: too small and did not weight no more than 190 pounds in his heyday. Could he beat someone as skilled and powerful like Tyson? Archie Moore was a blown up lightheavyweight and dropped Marciano. I imagine now a punch by Tyson?

Joe Louis: I consider Louis as the greatest KO artist of all time pound per pound and one of the top 5 greatest pound per pound fighters that ever lived and PROBABLY, THE GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT OF ALL TIME. But a match with Tyson would be SUICIDAL. Louis never passed in his prime over 200 pounds. Tyson would have at least 15 or 20 pounds oever him. The great Billy Conn almost KO Louis in the 12th round in 1941 and to some observers like the great trainer Ray Arcel, said that Conn was weighing 168 pounds. And Conn has the same speed of hands like Tyson, probably not by much. Tyson in my opinion would have crushed him too.

Jack Dempsey: Has the same fire like Tyson. It could be said that Tyson is a carbon copy of the Manassa Mauler, but c'mon folks, Dempsey was not as skilled as Tyson,either weighed more than 180 pounds in his prime. Yes, he crushed Jess Willard, a 6'6" giant, but Willard is not as skilled as Tyson. I do not think that Dempsey had the power to keep Tyson away and to Tyson to gain some respect. Tyson would have massacre Dempsey just like he did Michael Spinks.

Gene Tunney: Forget about it!!! He was more of a light heavy and did not had the punch to keep Tyson off from him. He probably could have outboxed Tyson for a couple of rounds and probably had better speed than Tyson. He could be in his bicycle all night, but Tyson catches him and BOOM!!! THE FIGHT IS OVER!!!

Jack Johnson: THE ONLY ONE THAT I CAN SEE THAT COULD GIVE TYSON PROBLEMS of the great heavyweights before Sonny Liston. He was tall, strong, and had great defense. I do not know if his chin could have take Tyson's punch because the great Stanley Ketchel dropped him. Ketchel was nor even a heavyweight. He was a great middleweight. Johnson probably would have frustrate Tyson with his jab and he was also quick and in the clinches, could have also frustrate Tyson, I see this fight like BoneCrusher Smith vs Tyson. But this time, I would not be surprised if Johnson would have outboxed Iron Mike or knock him out. Remember, Johnson was like 6'1'" or 6'2" and was a strong 215 pound guy, full of muscle. He, (Johnson) could also punch real hard.

Ezzard Charles: His speed and movement could have give Tyson a lot, lots of problems, but Tyson would have been TOO STRONG FOR HIM. Tyson would have blew him out. Charles was at best a lightheavyweight.

Jersey Joe Walcott: Great boxing skills, speed and could also punch. But a punch by Mike and that's it. Walcott in his heyday never exceeded over 195 pounds. Mike was 215. That is a lor of weight!!!


Tommy Burns: At 5'7" and ONLY 168 POUNDS, does he have a chance against a 5'11" , 215 pound Tyson???


Jim Jeffries: TOO SLOW FOR TYSON


Max Baer: Had the punch, but not the weight nor the skill to beat Tyson

Max Schmeling: Does not have what it takes to beat Tyson. Tyson has advantages over him in almost everything, except in reach and height.

I just hope that I did not put some nostalgic fans of the past mad with these comments. But that is the way I see this fights.

[Syntax Error]

By the laws of evolution, Tyson would have crushed most of the HW's before Liston.

There's only Joe Louis & Jack Johnson I would back to beat him, as he was much bigger than most of the others.

On a p4p basis, it's a different story though.

[dr_devious]

The guy with the best chance would have been Jack Johnson, bigger and as strong as Tyson and a master boxer. Joe Louis would start as favourite against Tyson but suffered knockdowns from guys nowhere near as powerful as Tyson e.g. Jimmy Bradock etc. I could imagine Joe having trouble early against Tyson but after 5-6 rounds Tyson would be Joes. I also fancy Dempsey to beat Tyson; Dempsey really was a savage and had the power to trouble anyone. Remember Holyfield was a 190lb cruiserweight moving up and he hammeredTyson twice. Its easy to see Dempsey doing the same especially with modern training methods

[elmersalsa]

what this IDIOT (Decagon) forgot to write above was that even that those guys had more weight, were not talented as Mike.

What a moron.

[Ambling Alp]

Elmer,
I guess I agree with you sometimes and not other times.
Tyson did have some spectacular knockouts, but he didn't blow everyone out. Tyson had a lot of trouble with with some not so great heavyweights; Tucker (who injured his hand), James Tillis, and to a lesser extent Bonecrusher Smith and Jessie Ferguson.

Floyd Patterson agree, Tyson knocks him out early.

Marciano- Not sure about this. Almost anything could happen. Tyson was bigger, but Marciano was tougher. If Marciano survives the early onslaught I like his chances.

Louis- Tyson would have a chance, but Louis should be able to stop him in the later rounds.

Dempsey-Tyson was bigger than Dempsey as well, but Dempsey was also tougher. Dempsey was also a fast starter and could potentially stop Tyson early.

Tunney-I can envision Tunney foot speed frusterating Tyson and winning a decision. However, the most likely scenario is that Tyson stops him in the middle rounds.

Johnson-Johnson would frusterate Tyson by jabbing, then tying him up
and scoring inside. Johnson probably win a relatively comfortable decision.

Charles- Tyson should be able to stop Charles in a few rounds.

Walcott- Could be interesting for awhile. Conceivably Walcott could win if he fought the "perfect fight" and win a decision. However, sooner or later Tyson would probably knock him out.

Burns-Hard to imagine Burns lasting long. Tyson knocks him out early.

Jeffries- Jeffries wouldn't be intimidated and would come to fight. He had a good chin,but wasn't difficult to hit. I wouldn't count out Jeffires, but I would have to pick tyson. A Tyson would probably stop him in 6 or 7 rounds.

Baer-Baer would have a remote punchers chance but that's about it. Tyson would probably knock him out early.

Schmeling- Tyson would stop him fairly easily.

[dempseyfire]

I got a debate here and want the opinions of you all of matches of the great heavyweight Mike Tyson vs the great heavyweights of the past before Sonny Liston.

As I see the tapes of the great heavys of the past and then the Tyson tapes that I got on video, I cannot phantom those heavyweights beat Iron Mike. They were too small and some of them too slow for Mike Tyson speed.

For example, Floyd Patterson NEVER exceeded 195 pounds in his prime. I imagine now him fighting a Tyson circa the late 80s or early 90s when Iron Mike was weighing 215 pounds in his prime. That is a bout a 30 pound weight advantage. Tyson would have KOd him just like Sonny did, and probably faster.

Rocky Marciano: too small and did not weight no more than 190 pounds in his heyday. Could he beat someone as skilled and powerful like Tyson? Archie Moore was a blown up lightheavyweight and dropped Marciano. I imagine now a punch by Tyson?

Joe Louis: I consider Louis as the greatest KO artist of all time pound per pound and one of the top 5 greatest pound per pound fighters that ever lived and PROBABLY, THE GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT OF ALL TIME. But a match with Tyson would be SUICIDAL. Louis never passed in his prime over 200 pounds. Tyson would have at least 15 or 20 pounds oever him. The great Billy Conn almost KO Louis in the 12th round in 1941 and to some observers like the great trainer Ray Arcel, said that Conn was weighing 168 pounds. And Conn has the same speed of hands like Tyson, probably not by much. Tyson in my opinion would have crushed him too.

Jack Dempsey: Has the same fire like Tyson. It could be said that Tyson is a carbon copy of the Manassa Mauler, but c'mon folks, Dempsey was not as skilled as Tyson,either weighed more than 180 pounds in his prime. Yes, he crushed Jess Willard, a 6'6" giant, but Willard is not as skilled as Tyson. I do not think that Dempsey had the power to keep Tyson away and to Tyson to gain some respect. Tyson would have massacre Dempsey just like he did Michael Spinks.

Gene Tunney: Forget about it!!! He was more of a light heavy and did not had the punch to keep Tyson off from him. He probably could have outboxed Tyson for a couple of rounds and probably had better speed than Tyson. He could be in his bicycle all night, but Tyson catches him and BOOM!!! THE FIGHT IS OVER!!!

Jack Johnson: THE ONLY ONE THAT I CAN SEE THAT COULD GIVE TYSON PROBLEMS of the great heavyweights before Sonny Liston. He was tall, strong, and had great defense. I do not know if his chin could have take Tyson's punch because the great Stanley Ketchel dropped him. Ketchel was nor even a heavyweight. He was a great middleweight. Johnson probably would have frustrate Tyson with his jab and he was also quick and in the clinches, could have also frustrate Tyson, I see this fight like BoneCrusher Smith vs Tyson. But this time, I would not be surprised if Johnson would have outboxed Iron Mike or knock him out. Remember, Johnson was like 6'1'" or 6'2" and was a strong 215 pound guy, full of muscle. He, (Johnson) could also punch real hard.

Ezzard Charles: His speed and movement could have give Tyson a lot, lots of problems, but Tyson would have been TOO STRONG FOR HIM. Tyson would have blew him out. Charles was at best a lightheavyweight.

Jersey Joe Walcott: Great boxing skills, speed and could also punch. But a punch by Mike and that's it. Walcott in his heyday never exceeded over 195 pounds. Mike was 215. That is a lor of weight!!!


Tommy Burns: At 5'7" and ONLY 168 POUNDS, does he have a chance against a 5'11" , 215 pound Tyson???


Jim Jeffries: TOO SLOW FOR TYSON


Max Baer: Had the punch, but not the weight nor the skill to beat Tyson

Max Schmeling: Does not have what it takes to beat Tyson. Tyson has advantages over him in almost everything, except in reach and height.

I just hope that I did not put some nostalgic fans of the past mad with these comments. But that is the way I see this fights.

Tyson was not much bigger than these guys . . I don't know what you're getting at. Louis at his best was 200-205, a meagre 10 lbs less than Tyson, had superior stamina, faster hands, just as strong, sharper puncher, taller, longer reach. You say Baer didn't have the weight to compete vs Tyson? He was just below 6'3, very large physique and 205-215 at his best . . BIGGER than Tyson. Dempsey was also longer and taller than Tyson, but just had more sinery, wirey strength at 190 vs the more bulky Tyson at 215, who never showed Dempsey's late fight power or work-rate.

You are equating size to weight, which is wrong. Tyson was a short, squat powerful guy, but at a prime weight of 215 was no giant.

[The Great John L]

See? Anyone can make your stupid posts.

Nice post Dec.

[silkov]

what this IDIOT (Decagon) forgot to write above was that even that those guys had more weight, were not talented as Mike.

What a moron.

Actually, I was making fun of how you marginalized every fighter before Liston simply based on his weight by marginalizing Tyson's weight. My post was stupid because it was meant to demonstrate your stupidit, which of course is quite evident to everyone reading this thread.

Perhaps you should learn how to spell 'stupidity' before calling someone stupid!!?.... 8)

[Syntax Error]

It's very difficult to accurately rate HW's due to evolution & the weight differences.

When I rate the HW's, especially the majority of them, pre-Liston, I do it on a p4p basis.

Most of the HW champs pre-Lisoton would not actually be heavyweights today & it's doubtful whether any fight fan would rate a cruiserweight above a monster HW like Tyson in a heavyweight battle.

Yes, there was Evander Holyfield, but hindsight is a great thing.

How many people would truly have backed Evander ever to have beaten Tyson, had they never fought?

P4P, I rate the likes of Marciano ahead of Tyson, but I believe if you dropped the 1987 Tyson in a ring against the 1951 Marciano, there would only be one winner & he's from Catskills, New York!!!!

[JC]

It's very difficult to accurately rate HW's due to evolution & the weight differences.

Syntax, you mention evolution a couple of times, are you talking about evolution of boxing technique and training methods? Because it kind of sounds like your talking about physical evolution which takes alot longer than 50-60 years.

Not trying to be sarcastic just clarifying.

How many people would truly have backed Evander ever to have beaten Tyson, had they never fought?

Doesn't that tell you more about automatically picking Tyson against smaller heavyweights than anything else

[dempseyfire]

It's very difficult to accurately rate HW's due to evolution & the weight differences.

When I rate the HW's, especially the majority of them, pre-Liston, I do it on a p4p basis.

Most of the HW champs pre-Lisoton would not actually be heavyweights today & it's doubtful whether any fight fan would rate a cruiserweight above a monster HW like Tyson in a heavyweight battle.

Yes, there was Evander Holyfield, but hindsight is a great thing.

How many people would truly have backed Evander ever to have beaten Tyson, had they never fought?

P4P, I rate the likes of Marciano ahead of Tyson, but I believe if you dropped the 1987 Tyson in a ring against the 1951 Marciano, there would only be one winner & he's from Catskills, New York!!!!

But Holyfield DID whip on Tyson! The proof is in the pudding.

Tyson, at 5'10, 215 is no monster compared to a 6'1, 190 lber. We are talking 20 lbs difference here . . .in HW boxing that is nothing.

Dempsey, Louis, Johnson were HEAVYWEIGHTS . . .look at the other measurements besides weight. They were just exceptionally trained to go 15 hard rounds (or more) . . .something Tyson never did.

[elmersalsa]

Mike Tyson, before the Spinks fight was something that I have never seen in my life. He had taht combination of rare speed and power. He was short, strong and compact and had head movement.

The only problems and flaws that he had back then was that he did not knew how to solve a fight in the clinches, like he did not know what to do. That is why I have said before THAT WE HAVE NEVER SEEN REALLY THE PRIME OF IRON MIKE.

But I just can see a Joe Louis, as great as he was, KO Mike. He looked too small.

Jack Johnson of the whole bunch is the one that had the tools to beat him in my opinion. Johnson was quick, hit hard, had ring generalship, great defense, strong in the clinches, great jab, and he looked like he was ahead of his time. Also he was like 6'1" or 6'2" and had the weight to match Tyson's.

[elmersalsa]

Mike Tyson, before the Spinks fight was something that I have never seen in my life. He had taht combination of rare speed and power. He was short, strong and compact and had head movement.

The only problems and flaws that he had back then was that he did not knew how to solve a fight in the clinches, like he did not know what to do. That is why I have said before THAT WE HAVE NEVER SEEN REALLY THE PRIME OF IRON MIKE.

But I just can see a Joe Louis, as great as he was, KO Mike. He looked too small.

Jack Johnson of the whole bunch is the one that had the tools to beat him in my opinion. Johnson was quick, hit hard, had ring generalship, great defense, strong in the clinches, great jab, and he looked like he was ahead of his time. Also he was like 6'1" or 6'2" and had the weight to match Tyson's.

Nonsense. Louis would knock Mike into next week.

Every flaw Mike had, everything that saw him exposed can be found in Green, Tillis, Smith and Tucker.

How could that be nonsense!!! c'mon guys, let's be realistic. Joe Louis beat Mike Tyson??? I just cannot see it. And the flaws that you mentioned above I recognized them in the earlier post. That is why I have said that WE NEVER SAW THE REAL PRIME OF MIKE TYSON.

[Syntax Error]

It's very difficult to accurately rate HW's due to evolution & the weight differences.

Syntax, you mention evolution a couple of times, are you talking about evolution of boxing technique and training methods? Because it kind of sounds like your talking about physical evolution which takes alot longer than 50-60 years.

Not trying to be sarcastic just clarifying.

How many people would truly have backed Evander ever to have beaten Tyson, had they never fought?

Doesn't that tell you more about automatically picking Tyson against smaller heavyweights than anything else

You know what, guys, I see your point.

I've never really considered a Tyson to be a top 10 heavyweight, but he was formidable nonetheless & I've always felt that due to his size, he would have been too big for the likes of Marciano & Dempsey et al, but thinking about it, they were tough MF's with heart & soul & probably could in actual terms have lived with Tyson & went on to smack him.

[generic screen name]

I wouldn't count Joe Louis out in a fight against Tyson. Tyson fights forward and would be a decent target for Louis. A right hand from Louis can behead Tyson. But Tyson's speed, power and head movement can make it a little difficult. Could make for an exciting fight.

[elmersalsa]

When Holyfield fought Tyson, Holy weighed 217 pounds and looked bigger than Tyson in both fights. He bulked on weight and he also had the speed and boxing skills to match with Tyson. Also Holyfield had the heart and was not INTIMIDATED by no means.

Dempsey, Louis and Marciano would have had to bulk up in order to fight Tyson. I do not care how much HEART THESE FELLAS may have, size is size and weight is weight. Ask Joe Frazier, he had all the HEART IN THE WORLD against Foreman, but he was TOO BIG FOR JOE.

[The Great John L]

When Holyfield fought Tyson, Holy weighed 217 pounds and looked bigger than Tyson in both fights. He bulked on weight and he also had the speed and boxing skills to match with Tyson. Also Holyfield had the heart and was not INTIMIDATED by no means.

Dempsey, Louis and Marciano would have had to bulk up in order to fight Tyson. I do not care how much HEART THESE FELLAS may have, size is size and weight is weight. Ask Joe Frazier, he had all the HEART IN THE WORLD against Foreman, but he was TOO BIG FOR JOE.

Yeah, and George was just too big for Jimmy Young too...

[elmersalsa]

When Holyfield fought Tyson, Holy weighed 217 pounds and looked bigger than Tyson in both fights. He bulked on weight and he also had the speed and boxing skills to match with Tyson. Also Holyfield had the heart and was not INTIMIDATED by no means.

Dempsey, Louis and Marciano would have had to bulk up in order to fight Tyson. I do not care how much HEART THESE FELLAS may have, size is size and weight is weight. Ask Joe Frazier, he had all the HEART IN THE WORLD against Foreman, but he was TOO BIG FOR JOE.

Yeah, and George was just too big for Jimmy Young too...

No he was not. Jimmy at least was 6'2" and close to 215 pounds

[The Great John L]

When Holyfield fought Tyson, Holy weighed 217 pounds and looked bigger than Tyson in both fights. He bulked on weight and he also had the speed and boxing skills to match with Tyson. Also Holyfield had the heart and was not INTIMIDATED by no means.

Dempsey, Louis and Marciano would have had to bulk up in order to fight Tyson. I do not care how much HEART THESE FELLAS may have, size is size and weight is weight. Ask Joe Frazier, he had all the HEART IN THE WORLD against Foreman, but he was TOO BIG FOR JOE.

Yeah, and George was just too big for Jimmy Young too...

No he was not. Jimmy at least was 6'2" and close to 215 pounds

You stated that Foreman was too big for Frazier. Foreman weighed 217.5 and Frazier weighed 214, a 3.5 pound difference. Foreman outweighed Young by 16 pounds, so using your logic, George was just too big for Young. Right?

And please quit shouting.

[HomicideHenry]

I can't see how people disregard most of the HW greats going up against a prime Tyson. Like the argument the guy posted was that Dempsey beat Jess Willard, but that didn't count because Willard wasn't as skilled as Tyson.

Well I could make the argument that Tyson wasn't as good as Dempsey because Tyson's greatest/hardest oppnents were guys in excess of 6' and 200 pounds such as Bonecrusher Smith. If Dempsey could beat a far more harder puncher, who was much taller and bigger than Bonecrusher was, with relative ease, then that zeros out Tyson.


And as far as Jim Jefferies is concerned, I get tired of the comments that he was 'too slow'. The prime Jim jefferies wasnt slow at all, he chased down the fastest man on the planet who dared to wear boxing gloves in Jim Corbett for over 20 rounds. This was also the same man who was so tough that he took punishment from possibly the greatest HW champion in Jack Johnson for 15 rounds, six years passed his prime, had to lose over 100 pounds with no tune ups.

He would be no pushover for Tyson. If he could take on the dirtiest and one of the more powerful fighters of that time in Tom Sharkey, then Tyson would be no problem.

[elmersalsa]

Yeah, and George was just too big for Jimmy Young too...

No he was not. Jimmy at least was 6'2" and close to 215 pounds

You stated that Foreman was too big for Frazier. Foreman weighed 217.5 and Frazier weighed 214, a 3.5 pound difference. Foreman outweighed Young by 16 pounds, so using your logic, George was just too big for Young. Right?

And please quit shouting.

No. I am not shouting. What makes you think that I am? We are just debating my friend.
Frazier weighed the scales in a weight that he was not accomstumed to. He was a solid 205-08 pounds the most. He looked too small for Foreman in height. It was like a father beating his child. It was not even a FAIR FIGHT.

At least Jimmy was taller and had that skill. He weighed 216 and Foreman 229. That was just 13 pounds difference. But I bet you if Young were only 180 pounds, I do not think he would haave whup Foreman, no matter how talented you are or how much heart you got. It is VERY TOUGH TO BEAT A BIG AND TALENTED HEAVYWEIGHT.

[dempseyfire]

No he was not. Jimmy at least was 6'2" and close to 215 pounds

You stated that Foreman was too big for Frazier. Foreman weighed 217.5 and Frazier weighed 214, a 3.5 pound difference. Foreman outweighed Young by 16 pounds, so using your logic, George was just too big for Young. Right?

And please quit shouting.

No. I am not shouting. What makes you think that I am? We are just debating my friend.
Frazier weighed the scales in a weight that he was not accomstumed to. He was a solid 205-08 pounds the most. He looked too small for Foreman in height. It was like a father beating his child. It was not even a FAIR FIGHT.

At least Jimmy was taller and had that skill. He weighed 216 and Foreman 229. That was just 13 pounds difference. But I bet you if Young were only 180 pounds, I do not think he would haave whup Foreman, no matter how talented you are or how much heart you got. It is VERY TOUGH TO BEAT A BIG AND TALENTED HEAVYWEIGHT.

Young weighed 213 and was a little soft (his best fighting weight was around 205) The likes of Johnson, Frazier, Dempsey, and Marciano were stronger and hit harder than Young.

WHy are you exaggerating and saying 180 lbs? Louis was 200 and over at his best, Dempsey over 185 and usually at 190 at his peak. He knocked out skilled guys bigger than Tyson like bowling pins.

Frazier-Foreman had nothing to do with pure size and had to do with styles. You are usually smart, you should know that. Foreman outweighed Peralta, an old soft light HW, by 20 lbs but struggled with him . . .why couldn't he blast him out? According to your logic, he should have.

Again, you going on and on about a measly 15 lbs difference is ridiculous. Tyson was not that big a heavyweight. Joe Louis and Johnson were BIGGER men than Mike Gerald Tyson.

[HomicideHenry]

Also, dont count Marciano out with the excuse he was 'too small'. The man naturally weighed over 200 pounds, he trained himself down to that condition of 187 pounds. The only thing small about him was his reach and his height of 5'11".

Marciano fought alot of men much bigger than himself and blew them away.

[elmersalsa]

You stated that Foreman was too big for Frazier. Foreman weighed 217.5 and Frazier weighed 214, a 3.5 pound difference. Foreman outweighed Young by 16 pounds, so using your logic, George was just too big for Young. Right?

And please quit shouting.

No. I am not shouting. What makes you think that I am? We are just debating my friend.
Frazier weighed the scales in a weight that he was not accomstumed to. He was a solid 205-08 pounds the most. He looked too small for Foreman in height. It was like a father beating his child. It was not even a FAIR FIGHT.

At least Jimmy was taller and had that skill. He weighed 216 and Foreman 229. That was just 13 pounds difference. But I bet you if Young were only 180 pounds, I do not think he would haave whup Foreman, no matter how talented you are or how much heart you got. It is VERY TOUGH TO BEAT A BIG AND TALENTED HEAVYWEIGHT.

Young weighed 213 and was a little soft (his best fighting weight was around 205) The likes of Johnson, Frazier, Dempsey, and Marciano were stronger and hit harder than Young.

WHy are you exaggerating and saying 180 lbs? Louis was 200 and over at his best, Dempsey over 185 and usually at 190 at his peak. He knocked out skilled guys bigger than Tyson like bowling pins.

Frazier-Foreman had nothing to do with pure size and had to do with styles. You are usually smart, you should know that. Foreman outweighed Peralta, an old soft light HW, by 20 lbs but struggled with him . . .why couldn't he blast him out? According to your logic, he should have.

Again, you going on and on about a measly 15 lbs difference is ridiculous. Tyson was not that big a heavyweight. Joe Louis and Johnson were BIGGER men than Mike Gerald Tyson.

Joe Louis at his best was NEVER over 200 pounds. My YAH, this guy was almost KO by a 168 pound Billy Conn that did not had a great punch and could not kill a fly. Tony Galento, at 5'7" and about 200 pounds dropped Louis too. I cannot see these guys dropping Mike, no way!!!

Now I imagine Mike dropping Joe with those bombs. Joe will never get up. The ref would count to 1000.

Jack Dempsey put that stationary target of Willard to sleep. A no talented Willard at best could not even beat a Bonecrusher or Tony Tucker at his best. Different times, folks and different discrepency in weight. Tyson would also steamrolled Willard MUCH FASTER just like Dempsey did.

Foreman could not blow Peralta, but Peralta could not hurt him nor do any damage. He was fighting for survival just like Bonecrusher and Tucker did with Mike. You think that Peralta could go toe to toe with Big George? Peralta had better boxing skills than Dempsey, Marciano and Louis combined, but cannot hit.

I like what Louis, Marciano and Dempsey did for boxing. But I cannot be NOSTALGIC in this one. Tyson would have been too much for these guys.

And then you say that Dempsey peaked at 195. Still too low for someone as muscular and strong and as fast as Mike. Let's face it. Today's heavyweights may not be as talented as yesterdays, but a TALENTED AND BIG HEAVYWEIGHT like Tyson, Lewis or Bowe for example, would have destroy Louis, Marciano and Dempsey.

Hey, nobody is on my side on this, or I am debating with nostalgics???

[yiddo14]

It's all irrelevant.
If Louis,Marciano and Dempsey were fighting in Tyson,Bowe,Lewis and Holyfield era,they would have probably been cruiserweights.
If not,they would have trained to weigh in excess of 210 pounds for certain.
That's the way I tend to look at it anyway.When comparing the older fighters with a prime Tyson,I like to think of how different they would have been in his era(mid-late 80s)
I doubt strongly Joe Louis would have weighed in at 200lbs when fighting a prime Tyson would he? So the weight issue would'nt be relevant.

Also,Tyson never beat a great fighter.Never come close to it.
So I can't see that he could beat any of the truly great heavyweights.