Floyd fans kidding themselves?

lurkyshaka · Post by **lurkyshaka** » 15 Nov 2006, 08:19

It seems that some people are totally kidding themselves if they think that Oscar won't be fast enough to hit Floyd and that Floyd can hop, skip and jump all night around Oscar. Nobody has ever been able to just outbox Oscar with impunity, so why the hell would people think that Mayweather can i don't know? Its puzzling how much some overrate this guy. He's good but he's not the god like figure some seem to believe. Floyd's potshot and run Baldy tactic won't work against Delahoya. He'll have to do way more than that. But what can he do? lets look........

Floyd likes to throw lead right hands, but that opens him up for the left hook of Oscar. Oscar will be perpared for that trade off i reckon, but will Floyd. Oscar has taken punches off Trinidad, Mosley, etc....so i think its safe to say that he can handle Floyds right hand. But can the same be said for Floyd if Oscar cracks him with the left hand?
So Floyd might have to adjust and go away from the lead right which he likes and is a key weapon of his, so immediatly we're seeng that one of Floyds best moves will put him in peril and he'll have to change. Its not good when a fighter has to abandon or use sparingly one of their best attributes.

Floyd likes to lay on the ropes at times and let his opponents take a few swings at him. He does this to kind of demoralise his opposition. But would this be a smart move against a guy much bigger and with a punch as hard and fast as Oscar? Oscar is not some wild and slowswinging Baldy. Oscar won't fall for this crap and won't just start swinging trying to nail Floyd with the one perfect shot. He'll just either step back out, let both hands go in flurry and then step out or the third option would be too just maul and lean on Floyd without trying to punch. Either way, this tactic won't be a smart one for Mayweather in this fight.

Floyd stood more in the pocket against Gatti and didn't move nearly as much but would this work against Oscar? I doubt it....It'll take just one well placed left hand to leave Floyd dramatically hurt, where on the other hand we've seen Oscar absorb punches off Mosley, Trindad, without going anywhere. He'd love it if Floyd wanted to stay close and try and fight him like he fought Gatti. Gatti was slow, not too mention totally intimidated by Mayweather so Floyd could play the bully, he won't be bullying Oscar....lol

I can see Floyd wanting to start out slow and take a look, he'll be super cautious especially early. Oscar will look to advance and put pressure on behind his jab. He'll be using lots of feints and little flicks with the left hand to keep Floyd guessing. Id expect Oscar to keep shooting right hands aswell just cos he knows that Floyd will be looking out for the left hook.
I think that Floyd will find Oscar a very difficult target to land clean on and the potshotting won't work this time. Now although Oscar will probably have early trouble landing clean on Floyd he'll be the one dictating the tempo. It'll be him bossing the fight, and looking more in control.
At some point Floyd will get frustrated and he'll have to take some gambles, and when he does it'll give Oscar the chance to land properly. And i think that we'll see Oscar crack him with something big and Floyd hurt dramatically(although i don't discount the possibility of a one shot finish either, i'll give Floyd the benefit of the doubt and says he survives the initial shot).....then the fight either goes the route where Floyd goes hyper negative and just looks to survive to the finish....or Floyd after getting hurt will show some stones and try and stand with Oscar, and this gets him stopped.
Floyd probably will pose Oscar a few problems but ultimately he won't be fast enough to outbox Oscar or powerful enough to stand with him.....Floyd loses this one and his dream fight turns into a nightmare.

I know that some like to think that Floyd is this unbeatable demi-god and no matter what he will find a way to win, but people need to accept that they all can be beaten. People though that Jones was unbeatable at one time but he came crashing down to earth. If you think that Floyd can win the fight then by all means explain in a logical way why and how. Im interested in hearing thought out views, but all too often people fail to give realistic view and instead we hear how Floyd will win just cos he's Floyd and faster than a speeding bullet type logic.

One final point id make is that no way should Oscar have Mayweather Snr is his corner. If Oscar starts to hurt his son will the elder Mayweather really want to assist Oscar?

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 15 Nov 2006, 08:29

lurker, both Quartey and Sturm gave Oscar boxing lessons. Tuck up, block his shoeshiners and jab, jab, and jab some more!

But obviously Mayweather is hardly bigger, stronger, one arm bandit. He's trickier, faster, more layered & obviously far smaller.

Quartey probably won nine rounds, outboxing DLH with a clean jab. 2 knockdowns can't erase what should've been a clear points lead. Especially when Quartey got up & dropped DLH in the same round (first KD round).

Sturm won at least 8, as well.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 15 Nov 2006, 08:41

viciousmaussa wrote:lurker, both Quartey and Sturm gave Oscar boxing lessons. Tuck up, block his shoeshiners and jab, jab, and jab some more!

But obviously Mayweather is hardly bigger, stronger, one arm bandit.

Quartey probably won nine rounds, outboxing DLH with a clean jab. 2 knockdowns can't erase what should've been a clear points lead. Especially when Quartey got up & dropped DLH in the same round (first KD round).

Sturm won at least 8, as well.

Quartey did not win 9 rounds. Come on take the anti Oscar glasses off for a second!

lurkyshaka · Post by **lurkyshaka** » 15 Nov 2006, 08:45

viciousmaussa wrote:lurker, both Quartey and Sturm gave Oscar boxing lessons. Tuck up, block his shoeshiners and jab, jab, and jab some more!

But obviously Mayweather is hardly bigger, stronger, one arm bandit.

Quartey probably won nine rounds, outboxing DLH with a clean jab. 2 knockdowns can't erase what should've been a clear points lead. Especially when Quartey got up & dropped DLH in the same round (first KD round).

Sturm won at least 8, as well.

Yeah i agree that Quartey and Sturm should have been given decisions over Oscar but they present totally different problems to what Mayweather will.
Quartey has one of the best jabs i've ever seen, and Delahoya was mentally not there for the Sturm fight. He wasn't in great shape and thought he just had to show upto win the fight(which to be honest was pretty close to the truth

)
Mayweather's not known for a jab though and is much smaller so i don't see that punch from Floyd being a factor in this fight. Oscar had to respect the power in Quartey and Sturms punches, he won't have that same respect for Floyds pop.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 15 Nov 2006, 08:51

nickd wrote:
viciousmaussa wrote:lurker, both Quartey and Sturm gave Oscar boxing lessons. Tuck up, block his shoeshiners and jab, jab, and jab some more!

But obviously Mayweather is hardly bigger, stronger, one arm bandit.

Quartey probably won nine rounds, outboxing DLH with a clean jab. 2 knockdowns can't erase what should've been a clear points lead. Especially when Quartey got up & dropped DLH in the same round (first KD round).

Sturm won at least 8, as well.
Quartey did not win 9 rounds. Come on take the anti Oscar glasses off for a second!

ok, make it 8 1/2

IMO Ike clearly outboxed him on the jab. DLH had two great rallies, Quartey had 2 or 3 very quiet late rds that could've gone either way, but in my eyes, Ike controlled most of the fight & yet Oscar got every benefit of the doubt.

I can't believe how harshly he has been scored. if I had my way, I'd eject whoever scored Ike-Lopez, Ike-Osar, & Ike-Carr out of a plane

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 15 Nov 2006, 09:01

Shaka no offense but you don't seem to have a complete grasp of boxing. You say PBF won't be able to outbox Oscar because he relys on speed - well PBF doesn't just rely on speed!!!

PBFs game is about making no defensive mistakes (ie not leaving any opportunities to be hit) waiting for his opponent to make mistakes and leaping on them with fast punches when he sees mistakes and getting back out again. Important PBFs footwork and angles will be allot better than DLH who is now looking to have lost his legs and become stationary.

DLHs defense is not particularly fantastic and he shows allot of openings but he is far bigger (15lbs+height and reach), stronger and near as fast as PBF.

1 think you say that is very correct is that PBF will need to take Oscars punch - I agree. It depends if Oscar can land his best punches and how good PBFs chin is - which held out against Castillo and Corrales who have near Oscar levels of power but not quite.

This is going to be a 50-50 stalker versus boxer scenario - expect DLH to take on Haglers role and PBF to take on SRLs role. I don't like to pick a winner because I think it'll be close and it may controversal too.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 15 Nov 2006, 09:06

viciousmaussa wrote:
nickd wrote:
viciousmaussa wrote:lurker, both Quartey and Sturm gave Oscar boxing lessons. Tuck up, block his shoeshiners and jab, jab, and jab some more!

But obviously Mayweather is hardly bigger, stronger, one arm bandit.

Quartey probably won nine rounds, outboxing DLH with a clean jab. 2 knockdowns can't erase what should've been a clear points lead. Especially when Quartey got up & dropped DLH in the same round (first KD round).

Sturm won at least 8, as well.
Quartey did not win 9 rounds. Come on take the anti Oscar glasses off for a second!
ok, make it 8 1/2

IMO Ike clearly outboxed him on the jab. DLH had two great rallies, Quartey had 2 or 3 very quiet late rds that could've gone either way, but in my eyes, Ike controlled most of the fight & yet Oscar got every benefit of the doubt.

I can't believe how harshly he has been scored. if I had my way, I'd eject whoever scored Ike-Lopez, Ike-Osar, & Ike-Carr out of a plane

Bollocks it was a close fight that could have gone either way.

boxerrob2005 · Post by **boxerrob2005** » 15 Nov 2006, 09:11

Quartey did enough to beat de la hoya. i wouldnt say he thrashed him, but like viciousmaussa said he controlled the fight with his jab and clearly won at least 8 rounds.

jimmy the gent · Post by **jimmy the gent** » 15 Nov 2006, 10:04

De la hoya won that fight.

dookus · Post by **dookus** » 15 Nov 2006, 10:04

Name one good BOXER (not brawler/pressure fighter) that Floyd has faced since he was at 130. Sharmba Mitchell doesn't count - anyone that was scraping MD wins over the likes of a 39-year old Vince Phillips at 140 many moons ago is not a legit topflight welterweight boxer...

I think Oscar is one step too far.

edit: Okay, Chop Chop Corley. He's not bloody De La Hoya, though.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 15 Nov 2006, 10:16

dookus wrote:Name one good BOXER (not brawler/pressure fighter) that Floyd has faced since he was at 130. Sharmba Mitchell doesn't count - anyone that was scraping MD wins over the likes of a 39-year old Vince Phillips at 140 many moons ago is not a legit topflight welterweight boxer...

I think Oscar is one step too far.

edit: Okay, Chop Chop Corley. He's not bloody De La Hoya, though.

Well Judahs superior/equal to De la hoya in some ways - speed, defense, movement and perhaps equal power

1 thing DLH won't do aswell now is apply pressure, a prime DLH would miss allot of shots but throw so much leather something would land. This DLH doesnt throw much leather

lurkyshaka · Post by **lurkyshaka** » 15 Nov 2006, 10:18

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Shaka no offense but you don't seem to have a complete grasp of boxing. You say PBF won't be able to outbox Oscar because he relys on speed - well PBF doesn't just rely on speed!!!

PBFs game is about making no defensive mistakes (ie not leaving any opportunities to be hit) waiting for his opponent to make mistakes and leaping on them with fast punches when he sees mistakes and getting back out again. Important PBFs footwork and angles will be allot better than DLH who is now looking to have lost his legs and become stationary.

DLHs defense is not particularly fantastic and he shows allot of openings but he is far bigger (15lbs+height and reach), stronger and near as fast as PBF.

1 think you say that is very correct is that PBF will need to take Oscars punch - I agree. It depends if Oscar can land his best punches and how good PBFs chin is - which held out against Castillo and Corrales who have near Oscar levels of power but not quite.

This is going to be a 50-50 stalker versus boxer scenario - expect DLH to take on Haglers role and PBF to take on SRLs role. I don't like to pick a winner because I think it'll be close and it may controversal too.

And no offense mate, but i just turned 28 and i've been in around the sport since i was about 9. I also competed for several years as an amateur and won county championships and regional NABC titles. Im sure there are some people who know more than me but i've got a pretty firm grasp on how the sport works thanks. When you say to someone no offense but.....its quite obvious that you probably are going to offend them but i'll address your points no problem

More and more Mayweather has been relying on speed to get him by. He earlier in his career was more a standard boxer who boxed in a more conventional manner, but lately he has been boxing more like Jones did in his prime. He now looks to potshot and move. Reset and repeat...
But no way will this strategy be effective against a guy like Delahoya imo, because Oscar is fast, has an excellent jab which is both quick and heavy cos he's naturally lefthanded, plus Oscar has good movement himself. Why do you say that Oscar appears to have lost his legs? Just because he didn't move a great deal against Mayorga and instead chose to sit down on his punches and make Ricardo pay for any errors....Oscar didn't have to use his legs in that fight cos it wasn't necessary.
Oscar can be hit but i don't think he has anything to really worry about in this fight from Floyd and if necessary can take 3 to land 1, not that i expect to see him need to consistently.
You compare Castillo and Corrales power to that of Oscar but thats clearly far fetched in the extreme. Corrales at 130 and Castillo at 135 are not goin to be punching anywhere near as heavy as Oscar at 154. Its also worth pointing out that at 135 Oscar was taking solid opposition out in truly devastating and often early fashion. Castillo for example has always been a more wear em down type of puncher.
Oscar won't be backing off from Floyd, but he won't have to give chase to Floyd if he doesn't want to either. Delahoya just needs to keep feinting and popping the jab out to keep Mayweather occupied. Being much the bigger and stronger men he can be patient and wait for Floyd to start reaching and when Oscar lands on Floyd and he will, i fully expect to see Mayweather dramatically hurt. People underestimate the speed of Oscar particularly with the left hook. I don't write off the chances of a one punch finish here atall, but failing that Oscar will get home more than enough to beat Mayweather either by stoppage of clear decision if Floyd does go into a full retreat survival shell, as i think he might once he tastes some real power.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 15 Nov 2006, 10:26

People really get over-excited!

Some say Ike Quartey thrashed De La Hoya and others say Mayweather has NO CHANCE against Oscar.

Truth is Quartey-DLH was a very close fight (which I scored to DLH, just) and DLH-PBF is pretty tight and there are many variables which you can't be certain how they will pan out.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 15 Nov 2006, 11:27

lurkyshaka wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Shaka no offense but you don't seem to have a complete grasp of boxing. You say PBF won't be able to outbox Oscar because he relys on speed - well PBF doesn't just rely on speed!!!

PBFs game is about making no defensive mistakes (ie not leaving any opportunities to be hit) waiting for his opponent to make mistakes and leaping on them with fast punches when he sees mistakes and getting back out again. Important PBFs footwork and angles will be allot better than DLH who is now looking to have lost his legs and become stationary.

DLHs defense is not particularly fantastic and he shows allot of openings but he is far bigger (15lbs+height and reach), stronger and near as fast as PBF.

1 think you say that is very correct is that PBF will need to take Oscars punch - I agree. It depends if Oscar can land his best punches and how good PBFs chin is - which held out against Castillo and Corrales who have near Oscar levels of power but not quite.

This is going to be a 50-50 stalker versus boxer scenario - expect DLH to take on Haglers role and PBF to take on SRLs role. I don't like to pick a winner because I think it'll be close and it may controversal too.
And no offense mate, but i just turned 28 and i've been in around the sport since i was about 9. I also competed for several years as an amateur and won county championships and regional NABC titles. Im sure there are some people who know more than me but i've got a pretty firm grasp on how the sport works thanks. When you say to someone no offense but.....its quite obvious that you probably are going to offend them but i'll address your points no problem

More and more Mayweather has been relying on speed to get him by. He earlier in his career was more a standard boxer who boxed in a more conventional manner, but lately he has been boxing more like Jones did in his prime. He now looks to potshot and move. Reset and repeat...
But no way will this strategy be effective against a guy like Delahoya imo, because Oscar is fast, has an excellent jab which is both quick and heavy cos he's naturally lefthanded, plus Oscar has good movement himself. Why do you say that Oscar appears to have lost his legs? Just because he didn't move a great deal against Mayorga and instead chose to sit down on his punches and make Ricardo pay for any errors....Oscar didn't have to use his legs in that fight cos it wasn't necessary.
Oscar can be hit but i don't think he has anything to really worry about in this fight from Floyd and if necessary can take 3 to land 1, not that i expect to see him need to consistently.
You compare Castillo and Corrales power to that of Oscar but thats clearly far fetched in the extreme. Corrales at 130 and Castillo at 135 are not goin to be punching anywhere near as heavy as Oscar at 154. Its also worth pointing out that at 135 Oscar was taking solid opposition out in truly devastating and often early fashion. Castillo for example has always been a more wear em down type of puncher.
Oscar won't be backing off from Floyd, but he won't have to give chase to Floyd if he doesn't want to either. Delahoya just needs to keep feinting and popping the jab out to keep Mayweather occupied. Being much the bigger and stronger men he can be patient and wait for Floyd to start reaching and when Oscar lands on Floyd and he will, i fully expect to see Mayweather dramatically hurt. People underestimate the speed of Oscar particularly with the left hook. I don't write off the chances of a one punch finish here atall, but failing that Oscar will get home more than enough to beat Mayweather either by stoppage of clear decision if Floyd does go into a full retreat survival shell, as i think he might once he tastes some real power.

I didn't mean to come across as condescending but I strongly disagree that Mayweather only relys on his speed. Remember Judahs has faster hand speed than both of them and PBF ground that 1 out. Mayweather also has maybe the best shot selection (if his hands hold out) and accuracy. His defense is very hard to land clean on - and landing clean often even harder. DLH will land on PBF though your right - but he will miss an awful lot because he misses plenty against fighters with worse defenses.

You talk about DLH taking 3shots to land 1 - well in that case your expecting him to land something big - well big shots are harder to land. You may be right that DLH could just be too powerful and too strong for Mayweather who probably could still make 135.

Why do I say DLH has lost his legs - yes Mayorga, but hes aging and the legs/movement are the first thing to go and the last thing the fans notice. I think DLHs footwork and balance has never been on PBFs level

We can both agree Mayweather didn't look great against Baldomir - but he still won a shut out against a competant performer and he only needed to pot shot. I actually think Mayweather is past his prime somewhat and hasn't looked the same since 130lbs.

Now what top boxers (not pressure fighters or punchers) has DLH faced - Whitaker (Greatest ever imo but way past his prime), Quartley (out of the ring for ages), Sturm, Hopkins, Camacho (shot), Mosley. Notice he doesnt do fantastically against boxers from history because of the errors he makes.

BTW Castillo and Corrales (who I didnt mention because he landed little) when PBF faced them probably weighed in around 147ish so there punch isnt a million miles removed from DLH.

dookus · Post by **dookus** » 15 Nov 2006, 11:37

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
dookus wrote:Name one good BOXER (not brawler/pressure fighter) that Floyd has faced since he was at 130. Sharmba Mitchell doesn't count - anyone that was scraping MD wins over the likes of a 39-year old Vince Phillips at 140 many moons ago is not a legit topflight welterweight boxer...

I think Oscar is one step too far.

edit: Okay, Chop Chop Corley. He's not bloody De La Hoya, though.
Well Judahs superior/equal to De la hoya in some ways - speed, defense, movement and perhaps equal power

1 thing DLH won't do aswell now is apply pressure, a prime DLH would miss allot of shots but throw so much leather something would land. This DLH doesnt throw much leather

I don't know about power - can you really see Judah chinning Mayorga in the same way Oscar did? I'll concede he's probably faster and his defence may be a little better, but Oscar has far more confidence in his chin and much more physical strength...

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 15 Nov 2006, 11:49

dookus wrote:Name one good BOXER (not brawler/pressure fighter) that Floyd has faced since he was at 130. Sharmba Mitchell doesn't count - anyone that was scraping MD wins over the likes of a 39-year old Vince Phillips at 140 many moons ago is not a legit topflight welterweight boxer...

I think Oscar is one step too far.

edit: Okay, Chop Chop Corley. He's not bloody De La Hoya, though.

Chop chop is shite, totally overrated fighter, based on his one shot against Floyd and Cotto, Witter totally humiliated him with ease.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 15 Nov 2006, 13:22

dookus wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
dookus wrote:Name one good BOXER (not brawler/pressure fighter) that Floyd has faced since he was at 130. Sharmba Mitchell doesn't count - anyone that was scraping MD wins over the likes of a 39-year old Vince Phillips at 140 many moons ago is not a legit topflight welterweight boxer...

I think Oscar is one step too far.

edit: Okay, Chop Chop Corley. He's not bloody De La Hoya, though.
Well Judahs superior/equal to De la hoya in some ways - speed, defense, movement and perhaps equal power

1 thing DLH won't do aswell now is apply pressure, a prime DLH would miss allot of shots but throw so much leather something would land. This DLH doesnt throw much leather
I don't know about power - can you really see Judah chinning Mayorga in the same way Oscar did? I'll concede he's probably faster and his defence may be a little better, but Oscar has far more confidence in his chin and much more physical strength...

Judahs power versus DLH Power is hard to judge - the assumption is DLH hits harder but Judahs power is pretty destructive - he destroyed WWs like Spinks, Rivera, Martell and a host of JWWs aswell as hurting Tyszu and PBF and ko'ing 25 out of his 30 victories. Could Judah KO Mayorga? Maybe hard to tell as there are no common opponents.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 15 Nov 2006, 13:43

DLH hits harder than Judah, no way would Judah stop Mayorga. In fact Mayorga would probably KO him.