David Haye vs. Giacobbe Fragomeni

GOLJAT WARRIOR · Post by **GOLJAT WARRIOR** » 13 Nov 2006, 16:34

I have never seen the Italian in action. For some reason I belive that he will just try to go the distance.

Here is their amateur bout:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o79mQmObhG0
The Italian won it.

What do you think about this match-up?

ALI · Post by **ALI** » 14 Nov 2006, 04:21

Just watched the video of there amatuer fight and i'm shocked to say the least. You would have to be a blind fool to think that Fragomeni was on top in that fight! In a proffesional ring he would have lost every round without question!

I pick Haye to blast him out early!

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 14 Nov 2006, 10:28

Would go with haye about half way through the fight although its as good a non title fight as there is at cruzer. Another factor is that Haye is much more mature a fighter now, his jab is good even though he uses it too much if anything. Hows his weight?

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 14 Nov 2006, 11:26

One thing I was worried about when Haye last fought is he seems to have put on a lot of bulky muscle. This is going to detract from his power and mobility. wouldn't be surprised if this italian jobber took him the distance.

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 14 Nov 2006, 12:58

Fragomeni will fell Hayes true power this time round, personally I think it could be over fairly quickly as I reckon Hayes power is world class, but its impossible to say how good Fragomenis chin.

I hope Fragomeni comes to fight and tries to pressure Haye, I'd like to see him make Haye work at a decent pace to see how his stamina holds up.

I'm just hoping that Haye doesn't have to wait around too long for his title shot against Bell, but I'd be just as happy to see Haye and Enzo square off in a "don't blink" contest if Haye gets through Friday OK.

Haye KO3 via a vicious uppercut to the smaller man

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 14 Nov 2006, 13:34

I think it will go a few rounds, maybe the distance. Haye should win though I dont think the Italian will be that ambitious.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 14 Nov 2006, 13:48

nickd wrote:I think it will go a few rounds, maybe the distance. Haye should win though I dont think the Italian will be that ambitious.

gotta remember he was at his prime when they fought last and Haye was still a teenager.... 37 is pretty old so I think Haye will win, but it will probably be a points one as Haye boxes cautiously

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 14 Nov 2006, 13:50

Lets hope there's more action than the Abdoul fight.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 15 Nov 2006, 08:40

nickd wrote:Lets hope there's more action than the Abdoul fight.

that fight was dull at haye's choosing he will not do two such fights in a row cos he knows it don't make marketing sence. I think this one should be exciting what ever. Shame he ain't with a promoter who has any links with US networks cos I still think they'll love him.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 15 Nov 2006, 08:43

Well he certainly talked a good game on Soccer AM lets hope he backs it up.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 16 Nov 2006, 06:44

nickd wrote:Well he certainly talked a good game on football AM lets hope he backs it up.

He would be a fool not to he has got real press buzz about this fight (certainly in the free papers in london) if he screws it up he'll be missing out on a lot of potencial fans.

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 16 Nov 2006, 07:09

I cannot believe Fragomeni even has this WBC eliminator shot. Who's he beaten of any note at all? Abdoul? Bispo? Serrat? (which he won by an MD. in Italy.)

Unless he has an exceptional chin, I'd say Haye in 3 or 4.

And what's that amateur fight score all about? 11-1? wtf?

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 16 Nov 2006, 09:28

josh fg wrote:
nickd wrote:Well he certainly talked a good game on football AM lets hope he backs it up.
He would be a fool not to he has got real press buzz about this fight (certainly in the free papers in london) if he screws it up he'll be missing out on a lot of potencial fans.

Well he was saying he cant wait to go in there and smash his face in, so lets hope he doesn't put on another pedestrian 12 rounder like last time. On the other hand lets hope he doesn't punch himself out the Italian does look quite durable.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 17 Nov 2006, 06:47

The Italian viewpoint - from sweetscience.com -

Giacobbe Fragomeni, The Next Italian Star
By Luca De Franco

In the United States, the cruiserweight division is considered a minor one. In Italy, it is very important because some of our best and most popular boxers are cruiserweights. Pietro Aurino, who draws large crowds in the Campania region, built a record of 37 wins (16 KOs), just 2 losses and is rated #4 by the WBC. On November 26, 2005 in Rome, Vincenzo Cantatore drew 3,500 paying customers for his challenge to WBO champion Johnny Nelson (who won on points). That’s a big number by Italian standards. On May 20, 2006 in Rome about 10,000 supporters filled Piazza di Siena (the show was free of charge) to see Cantatore defeat mediocre Jean Claude Bikoi. Vincenzo’s record is 32 wins (27 KOs), 4 losses and 1 draw, and he is rated #10 by the WBC and #5 by the WBO.

In Milan, no boxer is more loved than Giacobbe Fragomeni. Every time he fights, thousands of people chant “One of us, Giacobbe is one of us!” Recently, Fragomeni participated to a primetime show on national television and became famous even outside the Lombardia region. Born in Milan on August 13, 1969 Fragomeni built his fan base when he competed as an amateur. He had an outstanding career, becoming European champion and winning the bronze medal at the 1997 world championships in the heavyweight division. Among others, he faced DaVarryl Williamson. It happened in Milan, more than six years ago. Williamson had won the U.S. title three consecutive times (1996-97-98), so everybody was expecting a spectacular battle between top-rated amateurs. Maybe that was the problem, the two guys knew each other’s reputation and kept on the waiting stance to avoid trouble. The judges had no choice but to call it a draw.

When Fragomeni turned pro, he decided to pursue glory in the cruiserweight division and built an impressive record of 21 wins (9 KOs) in 21 fights. On November 13, 2004 in San Martino Siccomario (Province of Pavia), he defeated Frederic Serrat (who was 23-3) by majority decision for the vacant WBC international championship. He defended it on March 12, 2005 against undefeated Daniel Bispo (15-0). Fragomeni proved to have good stamina going the twelve rounds again. This time, he got a unanimous decision. The problem is that Fragomeni hit the Brazilian hundreds of times, from every angle, but never put him down for the count of ten. That’s why so many people wonder if Giacobbe has real punching power. Currently, Fragomeni is rated #3 by the WBC and #4 by the WBO.

Next Friday 17, in London, he will challenge European champion David Haye. Born in London on October 13, 1980 Haye is eleven years younger than Fragomeni and proved to have a dangerous punch getting 16 of his 17 victories by knockout. The only loss in Haye’s record happened on September 10, 2004 against IBO champion Carl Thompson (who was 32-6). The more experienced Thompson destroyed Haye in five rounds proving once again that KO artists get KOed easily. Probably, that’s because they don’t pay attention to defense, thinking that their power will be enough to win the fight. Fragomeni never looks for the one-punch solution, he prefers to throw dozens of consecutive punches to make his opponent weaker after the end of every round. That’s a strategy suggested by his trainer Patrizio Oliva, like Giacobbe said: “The first time Oliva saw me in the ring, he didn’t like what I was doing. He worked to turn me into a punching machine and that’s what I became. Even when I competed among amateurs, my characteristic was throwing hundreds of punches. That’s how I won my medals. I also beat David Haye in the Olympic trials. I think the score was 12-1. I humiliated him. I plan to do the same next Friday.”

It has to be noticed that Patrizio Oliva is one of the few men who really did it all in the boxing business: he won the gold medal at the Olympics, built a professional record of 52 wins (20 KOs) and 2 losses, became European light welterweight and welterweight champion and won the WBA light welterweight title. As a coach, Oliva trained the Italian national team and was given the award of “Trainer of the Year” by the EABA (European Amateur Boxing Association). Having a man like Oliva in his corner will help Fragomeni a lot in England. Giacobbe knows that it won’t be an easy night: “David has the power, but look at the names of his opponents. The only impressive win in his record is the one against respected Alexander Gurov, whom he KOed in one round. Gurov was 38-4-1 with 33 KOs. I give David a lot of credit for destroying Gurov, but he won’t do the same to me. I will be European champion on Friday.” The winner of the fight between Fragomeni and Haye will be mandatory challenger to WBC champion O’Neil Bell. When asked about him, Fragomeni said: “I consider him better than WBO champion Enzo Maccarinelli. I saw Maccarinelli in action many times and he is nothing special. I would fight him anytime, everywhere. David Haye is more dangerous than him.”

Giacobbe Fragomeni left for London accompanied by trainer Patrizio Oliva and manager Christian Cherchi who is Vice President of OPI 2000. About Fragomeni’s future, Cherchi said: “I’m confident that he will beat David Haye. Right after that, I’ll start working with my father to promote the world title fight between Giacobbe and WBC champion O’Neil Bell. There’s no limit to what Giacobbe can achieve. He is talented and hungry of success.”

Giacobbe Fragomeni
Born in Milan, Italy
Division: Cruiserweight
Age: 37
Born: 1969-08-13
Stance: Orthodox
Height: 177 cm
Record: 21 wins (9 KOs) in 21 fights
On November 13, 2004, he became WBC international champion defeating on points respected Frederic Serrat (who was 23-3).

Slick1990 · Post by **Slick1990** » 17 Nov 2006, 07:32

Haye will take him out early on

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 17 Nov 2006, 11:06

I hope Haye wins but this has to be on paper one of his hardest fights - I dont think the same tactics as last time will get him the decision - His opponent will, I think, be happy to go the distance and win on workrate - David has to try and stop him to win IMO - If he can this will set him up nicely for challenging Bell - It isnt going to happen for a while, but the all British clash with Enzo will be a thriller and most definately if David wins this and the Bell fight to become champion - A unification of titles would be one of the biggest all Brit matchups in a long while - I would sway in favour of Enzo but only just.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 17 Nov 2006, 11:13

Could be interesting...if Haye catches him right it could be over early, but the Italian might know enough to cover up and see out the early rounds, in which case he might start to get to Haye midway.

I tend to think Haye is on enough of a roll here to stop the Italian at some point, but could be a tough fight if he's taken things too lightly.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 17 Nov 2006, 11:21

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n259 ... medium.jpg

states · Post by **states** » 17 Nov 2006, 11:28

I'm not convinced this is a walk in the park for Haye. I expect him to win, but I doubt that Fragomeni is just showing up to fall over, and Haye hasn't always looked great when the other guy sticks around for a bit. If Haye's power isn't as dynamite as some would have you believe, and/or Fragomeni has a decent set of whiskers it could get a bit tense.

Mind you, Italian fighters haven't travelled too well in recent times, have they? Haye will probably knock him over inside a minute now I've given Fragomeni a chance.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 17 Nov 2006, 11:28

"Among others, he faced DaVarryl Williamson. It happened in Milan, more than six years ago. Williamson had won the U.S. title three consecutive times (1996-97-9, so everybody was expecting a spectacular battle between top-rated amateurs. Maybe that was the problem, the two guys knew each other’s reputation and kept on the waiting stance to avoid trouble. The judges had no choice but to call it a draw."

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 17 Nov 2006, 11:58

I'm really looking forward to this one now, I've even pulled out of my Friday night poker game so I can watch it live This Fragomeni 'sounds' like a decent fighter, but until the fight gets underway its hard to know for sure what's hype and what isn't .

There's hardly anyone on his record and he's 37, but he's got a good amateur career behind him, he's not lost as a pro (albeit not against top opposition) and is supposed to have a good chin and a decent work ethic, which combined could give Haye problems. Is his chin Hayemaker-proof though???? I fornicating doubt it

Haye needs a 'look good' performance tonight as well as a win, if he's going to further tempt O'Neill Bell into
the ring, because Bell seems to have abit of a backlog of potential opponents.

Haye and Enzo are both desperate to get Bell in the ring, so surely common sense dictates

that Haye and Enzo should square off in a Battle of Britain fight of Benn & Eubank proportions for a definitive 'Don't Blink' match up, with the winner getting the right to fight Bell. Enzo and Haye rarely mention each others names, its about time they fornicating started!!!!!!!!

Come to think of it, I'd much rather see Haye Vs Enzo than Haye/Enzo Vs Bell and I reckon most UK boxing fans would, because the strong majority won't have seen Bell in action, but know Haye and Enzo as BIG up and coming punchers. It would be a dream fight to build up in the press and on TV.

Both fighters are on a similar level and it makes for a cracker. These are the type of fights along with Witter-Hatton and Calzaghe-Woods that need to happen, to increase the sports popularity in the UK

Come on Dave, sort Enzo out before you move up. The fight would be great on ITV, they're good at building these fights up on their other sports shows and with primetime adverts. The fight would go out to a massive audience and the winner is an instant hero to the masses

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 17 Nov 2006, 12:09

Trouble is thought, neither Haye nor Enzo are massive draws, so fighting one another financially probably ain't worth it to risk another loss and get set back a few notches on the campaign trail towards a title.

Personally, I'd rather see them both go their own routes to belts, and then fight.

I don't reckon they will ever fight though, if Haye wins a cruiserweight belt, he will be trying to parlay that success into heavyweight contention, which although probably a big big mistake, will make him enough money to retire and live in the manner to which he has become accustomed.

black panther · Post by **black panther** » 17 Nov 2006, 12:16

I was just looking at fragomeni's stats and at only 5ft 9ins he could prove difficult for the 6ft3ins haye to punch down to his chin. I have a feeling fragomeni will get tagged early and then go into survival mode for the rest of the fight.

Chesney_Chambers · Post by **Chesney_Chambers** » 17 Nov 2006, 13:14

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Personally, I'd rather see them both go their own routes to belts, and then fight.

Its all down to personal preference I suppose, but I'd much prefer to see them both square off now(ish). Its the perfect fight for the casual fan both are BIG punchers, with questions over their durability and there's a fair chance it will end spectacularly, you can guarentee it won't see the final bell. It would go down a treat on ITV with the right build up

Hayes on the verge on moving upto HW, so basically it's now or never, if we are to see this fight at 200. IMO the fans lose out again if it doesn't happen. Yet again we've got a really strong weight division on the World scene and we can't even say who the best in the division is, as with the light-welters. I respect Benn, Watson, Collins and Eubank more and more by the day for squaring off against each other.

I love a 'Battle Of Britain'

rod riddle · Post by **rod riddle** » 17 Nov 2006, 13:19

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Trouble is thought, neither Haye nor Enzo are massive draws, so fighting one another financially probably ain't worth it to risk another loss and get set back a few notches on the campaign trail towards a title.

Personally, I'd rather see them both go their own routes to belts, and then fight.

I don't reckon they will ever fight though, if Haye wins a cruiserweight belt, he will be trying to parlay that success into heavyweight contention, which although probably a big big mistake, will make him enough money to retire and live in the manner to which he has become accustomed.

Realistic. I interviewed Haye recently and he's not interested in Enzo and said so. It's sad but it makes sense - why would he risk it all now against Enzo? For the fans?

He also said that he'll be looking to retire in a couple of years, so if that's the case he needs to make Heavyweight and get some big matches as soon as possible.

David Haye vs. Giacobbe Fragomeni

Will Fragomeni go the distance against Haye?

David Haye vs. Giacobbe Fragomeni