David Haye vs. Giacobbe Fragomeni

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 17 Nov 2006, 13:33

Yes, I think Haye views boxing as a means to an end. This doesn't mean he is without courage, I think he showed against Thompson that he's not afraid of being hit, but at the end of the day glory and legacy is way down his list of priorities, fair play, so long as people are honest about it I don't care too much. I doubt Haye is going to be remembered as anything other than a naturally talented fighter who made himself a nice career and a nice earner.

You cannot blame Haye for wanting to fight at heavyweight, there's sod all money fights at the 200lb limit.

I wonder how much he's made already, I suspect he's had some tasty signing on bonus' along the way, but I do wonder whether he is going to get those big money fights he craves.

At some point at heavyweight, he's going to have to fight someone who can punch, and at that point I think that is where the story ends. Although Haye is a big puncher, the fact he couldn't put an old Thompson on his arse puts his power into perspective, a big solid 220 lb fighter will probably just shake off the effects of one of his shots and march him down.

I'm happy to be proven wrong of course, as I'd like to see another Englishman do well at heavyweight.

Chesney_Chambers · Post by **Chesney_Chambers** » 17 Nov 2006, 13:50

rod riddle wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Trouble is thought, neither Haye nor Enzo are massive draws, so fighting one another financially probably ain't worth it to risk another loss and get set back a few notches on the campaign trail towards a title.

Personally, I'd rather see them both go their own routes to belts, and then fight.

I don't reckon they will ever fight though, if Haye wins a cruiserweight belt, he will be trying to parlay that success into heavyweight contention, which although probably a big big mistake, will make him enough money to retire and live in the manner to which he has become accustomed.
Realistic. I interviewed Haye recently and he's not interested in Enzo and said so. It's sad but it makes sense - why would he risk it all now against Enzo? For the fans?

He also said that he'll be looking to retire in a couple of years, so if that's the case he needs to make Heavyweight and get some big matches as soon as possible.

I'm a BIG Haye fan, so that's very disappointing to read Re:Enzo

As Nigel Benn recently said "They don't want to fight each other anymore", sad but true.

When did boxing stop being The Entertainment Business?

Chesney_Chambers · Post by **Chesney_Chambers** » 17 Nov 2006, 14:03

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yes, I think Haye views boxing as a means to an end. This doesn't mean he is without courage, I think he showed against Thompson that he's not afraid of being hit, but at the end of the day glory and legacy is way down his list of priorities, fair play, so long as people are honest about it I don't care too much. I doubt Haye is going to be remembered as anything other than a naturally talented fighter who made himself a nice career and a nice earner.

You cannot blame Haye for wanting to fight at heavyweight, there's sod all money fights at the 200lb limit.

I wonder how much he's made already, I suspect he's had some tasty signing on bonus' along the way, but I do wonder whether he is going to get those big money fights he craves.

At some point at heavyweight, he's going to have to fight someone who can punch, and at that point I think that is where the story ends. Although Haye is a big puncher, the fact he couldn't put an old Thompson on his arse puts his power into perspective, a big solid 220 lb fighter will probably just shake off the effects of one of his shots and march him down.

I'm happy to be proven wrong of course, as I'd like to see another Englishman do well at heavyweight.

I think Haye will do well at HW, the pace will suit his work ethic

I think his speed will give alot of the BIG boys fits and I rate him as a HW puncher, Hayes come on alot since the Carl Thompson fight, he learnt a BIG lesson when he fought Carl and he's fought alot more patiently ever since, he's grown alot as well.

The BIG question is how will he take a HW punch, time will tell, but I reckon he's got enough in his locker to go on a decent run. He might pick up a loss or 2 along the way, but this is boxing it happens, which is why he should fight Enzo, a loss is not that catastrophic IMO

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 17 Nov 2006, 16:35

Haye at HW would I think be a disaster - Would you really fancy him against Skelton or even worse Klitchco or Valuev? - If he can take the belt off Bell squaring off against big Enzo in a winner takes all fight would be fantastic - Not sure if it could happen on ITV but it is the right channel to show it - There could be American interest if Haye was to beat Bell - Two world champs fighting of any nationality is something they go for - Really big money would surely make Haye think again about turning his back on Enzo - We need this sort of scenario for the fight to happen IMO - Anyway Haye has to do well tonight and even better against Bell and win both so too many ifs and maybes at the moment.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 17 Nov 2006, 18:06

Haye will try to rid us of our memory of the Abdoul fight.

Haye KO 7

Really hope Haye throws more than 10 punches a round..he's gonna have to.

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 17 Nov 2006, 18:54

Good fight, Haye did very well to get through that.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 17 Nov 2006, 18:57

Indeed, entertaining. Italian was made of concrete, what a chin, once he got through that round 6 I figured it would've went the distance.

The cut just added to the drama, came from nowhere too. Good result for Haye, a few blips but did the job.

HairyBoxe24 · Post by **HairyBoxe24** » 17 Nov 2006, 19:06

David Haye was 4/6 before that round, i was going to put a huge amount on him, as soon as i log in.. he knocks him out

leforge · Post by **leforge** » 17 Nov 2006, 19:18

Good fight Haye showed desire, he will beat Bell imo, then go onto heavyweight. What can he achieve there?

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 17 Nov 2006, 19:23

A year ago Haye would have lost that fight, he's shown tonight thats he learnt alot, he was under constant pressure and seemed to be losing stamina, but Haye sucked it up, didn't panic when he was cut, and came out with a good knockout.
Very impressed with him tonight.

states · Post by **states** » 17 Nov 2006, 19:27

Credit to Haye, he answered some questions tonight. Showed that he could win a fight when the opponent came and threw something back as well. Haye was always ahead on my card, but there were a few moments when I thought it could slip away from him if he wasn't ready physically and mentally for a tough one. Fair play to him for proving me wrong.

Weird sort of finish, I thought. But I was impressed that Haye sought out Fragomeni's body all night, and it was that left to the ribs that brought down the curtain essentially. Thought Haye was good after he was cut, when he could have panicked.

leforge · Post by **leforge** » 17 Nov 2006, 19:29

Haye would beat enzo imo. I was very impressed by him tonight

states · Post by **states** » 17 Nov 2006, 19:56

leforge wrote:Haye would beat enzo imo. I was very impressed by him tonight

I still think that Maccarinelli would beat Haye. He might have to climb off the floor to do it, but I think he can set a pace Haye doesn't like, plus he has the punch to turn Haye's lights out.

Wouldn't bet on it though. But let's get it on, it's a great fight for TV.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 17 Nov 2006, 19:56

Said old Fragomeni would be a solid test for our three young champions (well, Hobson is no longer one).

leforge · Post by **leforge** » 17 Nov 2006, 20:08

Haye will win win world title and go on to heavyweight. How long will ITV do boxing is any one guess, I am so glad sky only show proper fights as opposed to wbu wbf fights

WayoftheCass · Post by **WayoftheCass** » 17 Nov 2006, 20:23

Haye showed a lot of guts tonight and dealt with the cut well. His stamina looked much improved and he showed he still has the jackpot power. He was wise to go to the body and it paid off. I was suprised though that the Italians quit like that. It wasn't like he was taking a beating. Indeed until the knockdown he was well in it.

BUT LETS NOT FORGET before we start praising Haye to the rafters. He fought a guy rated about 70 places below him, was 6 inches shorter, turned pro well into his 30's and indeed was 37 coming in and hadn't bested anyone of great before PLUS was a light puncher.
Haye still lacks a defence. its one thing taking those shots and beating that guy. Its a COMPLETELY different kettle of fish to do it against Bell, Mormeck, Arslan, Cunningham, Maccarinelli and Wlodarczyk.
I think a few people are getting a little carried away with themselves here. I mean come on. He just went through a war to beat a guy he was 33-1 on to beat inside the distance before the fight.

Foggy · Post by **Foggy** » 17 Nov 2006, 20:25

Sorry boys cannot comment on the fight cos i was in the pub and they dint have it on

It sounds to me that Haye showed a bit of heart tonight (by what i've read from ye lot), is Haye ready for the world stage then, by wot ive read he is !!!

E · Post by E » 17 Nov 2006, 20:29

Foggy wrote:Sorry boys cannot comment on the fight cos i was in the pub and they dint have it on

It sounds to me that Haye showed a bit of heart tonight (by what i've read from ye lot), is Haye ready for the world stage then, by wot ive read he is !!!

I got them to put it on in my local... everyone in the pub watched after a couple of rounds and loved it!

WayoftheCass · Post by **WayoftheCass** » 17 Nov 2006, 20:31

Foggy wrote:Sorry boys cannot comment on the fight cos i was in the pub and they dint have it on

It sounds to me that Haye showed a bit of heart tonight (by what i've read from ye lot), is Haye ready for the world stage then, by wot ive read he is???

I don't know. Apart from Gurov he hasn't beaten anyone rated near the top. The likes of Arthur Williams and Glenn Kelly were shot when Haye crushed them and Lolengo Mock was a blown up Super-Middle who still managed to deck him.
I mean that previous Italian he fought, Lasse Johansen, Ismael Abdoul and this guy tonight all had nice records but either looked limited on the night or had absolutely nothing on the resume to suggest they were World Class.
I still think it will be a big step up when he challenges for a belt which looks like the next move.

Foggy · Post by **Foggy** » 17 Nov 2006, 20:43

WayoftheCass wrote:
Foggy wrote:Sorry boys cannot comment on the fight cos i was in the pub and they dint have it on

It sounds to me that Haye showed a bit of heart tonight (by what i've read from ye lot), is Haye ready for the world stage then, by wot ive read he is???
I don't know. Apart from Gurov he hasn't beaten anyone rated near the top. The likes of Arthur Williams and Glenn Kelly were shot when Haye crushed them and Lolengo Mock was a blown up Super-Middle who still managed to deck him.
I mean that previous Italian he fought, Lasse Johansen, Ismael Abdoul and this guy tonight all had nice records but either looked limited on the night or had absolutely nothing on the resume to suggest they were World Class.
I still think it will be a big step up when he challenges for a belt which looks like the next move.

Well only time will tell,

with the cut that he suffered when would eveyone expect a championship fight to take place, maybe April/May next year ?????

leforge · Post by **leforge** » 17 Nov 2006, 20:44

He will beat Bell. Brown beat Bell imo, and Haye a much better fighter than him. The Italian was a good fighter very good chin. Haye will make an impression at euro heavyweight level now! this imo

WayoftheCass · Post by **WayoftheCass** » 17 Nov 2006, 20:47

leforge wrote:He will beat Bell. Brown beat Bell imo, and Haye a much better fighter than him. The Italian was a good fighter very good chin. Haye will make an impression at euro heavyweight level now! this imo

It could go either way. Both are punchers. I don't agree with the Brown line of thought though. I mean styles make fights. Haye is a completely different animal from Dale Brown. Brown is a defensive boxer. Haye is a chinny puncher with a poor defence. I mean Bell beat mormeck and he is also a much better fighter than Dale Brown.

WayoftheCass · Post by **WayoftheCass** » 17 Nov 2006, 20:49

Foggy wrote:
WayoftheCass wrote:
Foggy wrote:Sorry boys cannot comment on the fight cos i was in the pub and they dint have it on

It sounds to me that Haye showed a bit of heart tonight (by what i've read from ye lot), is Haye ready for the world stage then, by wot ive read he is???
I don't know. Apart from Gurov he hasn't beaten anyone rated near the top. The likes of Arthur Williams and Glenn Kelly were shot when Haye crushed them and Lolengo Mock was a blown up Super-Middle who still managed to deck him.
I mean that previous Italian he fought, Lasse Johansen, Ismael Abdoul and this guy tonight all had nice records but either looked limited on the night or had absolutely nothing on the resume to suggest they were World Class.
I still think it will be a big step up when he challenges for a belt which looks like the next move.
Well only time will tell, with the cut that he suffered when would eveyone expect a championship fight to take place, maybe April/May next year ?????

Maloney says he hopes to make the WBC to confirm it for May/June. Plenty of time for Haye to have a warm up and take further advantage of Bell's rather pointless and frustrating inactivity. Thats probably why Haye won't have a warm-up.

leforge · Post by **leforge** » 17 Nov 2006, 21:02

Haye will fight Bell or Morcmeck in London about May. Haye a much better fighter than brown thats what i saying, brown gave Bell hell, so did rothman i saw both these fights. Haye is class better than enzo!

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 18 Nov 2006, 04:20

leforge wrote:Haye will fight Bell or Morcmeck in London about May. Haye a much better fighter than brown thats what i saying, brown gave Bell hell, so did rothman i saw both these fights. Haye is class better than enzo!

I was surprised when Maloney was saying that they wanted Bell in May/June time, They have a guy in Haye who 2 seconds before that admited that he really struggled to make the weight and didn't know how much longer he going to be able to do it.
And his managment want to leave it 6 months before getting him back in the ring, Crazy!!

David Haye vs. Giacobbe Fragomeni

Will Fragomeni go the distance against Haye?