UK Promoters

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 23 Nov 2006, 08:48

Just wondering what people think about the current promoters / managers in the UK and how many of them are capable of making a fighter into a star.

At the moment I think it's fair to say that there are only two major stars of British boxing - Hatton and Calzaghe, both made by Sports Network. Also on Warrens books are a number of headliners such as Arthur, Khan and Scott Harrison.

In comparison, Witter despite being WBC champion struggles to attract fans and Froch has been fighting in York Hall events that have not been sold out. Is this down to the fighter or his management?

What other managers / promoters are there out there capable of making a fighter into a major star and when was the last time this happened for a British fighter when Warren was not involved?

Also, out of interest, can anybody tell me who promoted Benn, Eubank & Watson?

Is there room in the UK for another major promoter and are any of the others capable of competing with Sports Network? Have there been any new players recently in the UK promotion business who are making an impression?

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 23 Nov 2006, 08:54

Hennessy and Fight Academy haven't got Warren's experience either though. Also not as much financial backing.

Hennessy mostly just seems to post mini flyers of the fights through the mail, otherwise don't see much PR outside of press conferences.

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 23 Nov 2006, 08:57

Neither do they have his undercard power. Nice to be able to put undercard fighters on bils who attract a good number of supporters - helps to fill the arena.

Quite why Fight Academy haven't thought of a Woods Hatton double header is beyond me though. That'd fill a nice size arena.

states · Post by **states** » 23 Nov 2006, 09:01

Wales wrote:Neither do they have his undercard power. Nice to be able to put undercard fighters on bils who attract a good number of supporters - helps to fill the arena.

Quite why Fight Academy haven't thought of a Woods Hatton double header is beyond me though. That'd fill a nice size arena.

Probably because they wouldn't be able to pay both of them.

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 23 Nov 2006, 09:03

So how do they hope to pay hatton and castillo next year.

states · Post by **states** » 23 Nov 2006, 09:06

Because of the fat wedge the casino will be paying to host it, I expect. Who knows? I just don't think they could make a Hatton/Woods double bill in the UK viable right now, not with the amounts they're meant to be paying Hatton.

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 23 Nov 2006, 09:12

Anybody at the Witter-Corley fight would have noticed that a significant amount of the fans there turned up to see Albanian Kreshnick Qato (13-6, 2 KOs) and Polak Grzegorz Proksa (8-0, 5 KOs).

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 23 Nov 2006, 09:17

states wrote:Because of the fat wedge the casino will be paying to host it, I expect. Who knows? I just don't think they could make a Hatton/Woods double bill in the UK viable right now, not with the amounts they're meant to be paying Hatton.

Good point regarding the casino, and I would imagine the proposed showdows between the two would also be in a casino. I still disagree on the viability of a Hatton Woods card in the UK, although I know nothing of the figures required so cant make an educated argument either way. I certainarly cant see how Warren can put the Excel bill on and make money whilst FA couldnt do a similar bill with a hatton Woods combination. Especially with the added interest they'd have from Sky PPV and US TV.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 23 Nov 2006, 09:25

Wales wrote:So how do they hope to pay hatton and castillo next year.

I believe Hatton signed a 3 fight deal with Fight Academy, the Urango fight is the third. Its no secret they paid well over the odds to get Hatton and haven't made much if anything from him to date.

SuperSedgy · Post by **SuperSedgy** » 23 Nov 2006, 09:27

johnswan1 wrote:Anybody at the Witter-Corley fight would have noticed that a significant amount of the fans there turned up to see Albanian Kreshnick Qato (13-6, 2 KOs) and Polak Grzegorz Proksa (8-0, 5 KOs).

Yeah was abiut half the crowd! Qato was on before Froch v. Magee too and after he'd fought half the crowd left!

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 23 Nov 2006, 09:27

johnswan1 wrote:Anybody at the Witter-Corley fight would have noticed that a significant amount of the fans there turned up to see Albanian Kreshnick Qato (13-6, 2 KOs) and Polak Grzegorz Proksa (8-0, 5 KOs).

Quite amusing this - after posting the above, I wondered whether it was correct to use the word "Polak" or whether I should have said "Pole". Found this on the web....

"Polak: The Polish word meaning Pole. However, in English, this has become a racial slurr/derogatory title for a person of Polish descent. This is of course unfortunate, but English speaking people are not to call a Polish person a Polak, because the proper term for this in the English language is, Pole. This is just a warning obviously, some ignorant imbeciles may argue this, but call a spade a sapde. Unless you are one of us, don't use the term Polak about us. This will only lead to you getting your jaw smashed in".

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 23 Nov 2006, 09:31

SuperSedgy wrote:
johnswan1 wrote:Anybody at the Witter-Corley fight would have noticed that a significant amount of the fans there turned up to see Albanian Kreshnick Qato (13-6, 2 KOs) and Polak Grzegorz Proksa (8-0, 5 KOs).
Yeah was abiut half the crowd! Qato was on before Froch v. Magee too and after he'd fought half the crowd left!

Yep, was at that one too. Despite them making up the numbers, I'd have preferred if they weren't there at either fight, particularly the Witter fight. The ones sitting near me were shit stirring throughout, throwing things at people ahead who were blocking their view, yet standing on chairs and railings themselves and blocking everybody else behind them whenever they felt like it.

states · Post by **states** » 23 Nov 2006, 09:43

nickd wrote:
Wales wrote:So how do they hope to pay hatton and castillo next year.
I believe Hatton signed a 3 fight deal with Fight Academy, the Urango fight is the third. Its no secret they paid well over the odds to get Hatton and haven't made much if anything from him to date.

Hatton signed that 3 fight deal after the Maussa fight. So the Castillo fight would be the last one.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 23 Nov 2006, 10:10

Yeah, he was on a fight by fight basis after the Tszyu fight wasn't he?

As said earlier, Fight Acamdey have been paying Hatton very handsomely indeed. To the extent that it's unlikely they could afford to pay Clinton on the same bill in a double world title fight, which is a great shame as it would be terrific exposure for Clinton, but they wouldn't stand to make any extra and would in fact effectively lose more money.

Warren remains the number one, but I think a bit of ground has been gained by Hennessy and Fight Academy lately, insofar as they are putting on big regular shows.

Hennessy generally have very well put together shows with often big undercards, and some nice competitive fights. They don't have as many established big name fighters, but with Hatton gone, Calzaghe near the end of his reign, and Harrison looking like his career could be truncated, Sports Network are pinning a lot of their hopes on the shoulders of a young and let's face it, relatively untested fighter, whose career may or may not turn out to be a big deal.

Fight Academy, whilst not earning much from Hatton, are raising their profile, and no doubt forging good links in the USA at the same time, which will be invaluable if they want to be a major player. However, they are going to need to turn a profit if they are going to stay in the game.

Personally, I think the emergence of these two promotional outfits, along with Matchrooms sporadic forays, the reappearance of Frank Maloney as a promotional force, are good for boxing, not to mention the Sanigar's in Bristol, and the likes of Konkrete.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 23 Nov 2006, 10:58

Wales wrote:So how do they hope to pay hatton and castillo next year.

Hobson admits that he doesn't make a penny out of Hatton, whom he pays more than he is worth, apparently

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 23 Nov 2006, 11:00

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yeah, he was on a fight by fight basis after the Tszyu fight wasn't he?

As said earlier, Fight Acamdey have been paying Hatton very handsomely indeed. To the extent that it's unlikely they could afford to pay Clinton on the same bill in a double world title fight, which is a great shame as it would be terrific exposure for Clinton, but they wouldn't stand to make any extra and would in fact effectively lose more money.

Warren remains the number one, but I think a bit of ground has been gained by Hennessy and Fight Academy lately, insofar as they are putting on big regular shows.

Hennessy generally have very well put together shows with often big undercards, and some nice competitive fights. They don't have as many established big name fighters, but with Hatton gone, Calzaghe near the end of his reign, and Harrison looking like his career could be truncated, Sports Network are pinning a lot of their hopes on the shoulders of a young and let's face it, relatively untested fighter, whose career may or may not turn out to be a big deal.

Fight Academy, whilst not earning much from Hatton, are raising their profile, and no doubt forging good links in the USA at the same time, which will be invaluable if they want to be a major player. However, they are going to need to turn a profit if they are going to stay in the game.

Personally, I think the emergence of these two promotional outfits, along with Matchrooms sporadic forays, the reappearance of Frank Maloney as a promotional force, are good for boxing, not to mention the Sanigar's in Bristol, and the likes of Konkrete.

If Haye gets the WBC cruiserweight title, that would be a big boost for Maloney that could probably lead to a heavyweight title fight - domestic-Euro or world. Maybe that's his path to the big time.

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 23 Nov 2006, 11:10

jamesmcdonnell wrote:As said earlier, Fight Acamdey have been paying Hatton very handsomely indeed. To the extent that it's unlikely they could afford to pay Clinton on the same bill in a double world title fight, which is a great shame as it would be terrific exposure for Clinton, but they wouldn't stand to make any extra and would in fact effectively lose more money.

Wrong!!!

Please view your website on here ... what night did Fight Academy put on a double promotion ... Hatton/Collazo & Woods/Delisle

I have to concede though it would be fantastic to have a double world title bill on the same night and the SAME location involving Hatton and Woods ... perhaps that could happen in America??

But James ... you need to get your facts right mate ... without having documentary evidence how can you write what you have in your post?? ... or are you completely reliant on the information given to you by "Boxing Twat From Brentwood Who Crys When He is Sacked" ... whoops "Boxing Chat".

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 23 Nov 2006, 11:24

Think you might see alot more quality boxers from eastern europe over here soon, Polish boxers always bring in their own fans, and with the influx of workers from there in the big cities nowadays you can garuntee a bumper crowd.

You can have a couple of headliners from Britain and a good East Europeon boxer on the undercard to get in the crowd, and TV money from that boxers country

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 23 Nov 2006, 11:38

Spud wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:As said earlier, Fight Acamdey have been paying Hatton very handsomely indeed. To the extent that it's unlikely they could afford to pay Clinton on the same bill in a double world title fight, which is a great shame as it would be terrific exposure for Clinton, but they wouldn't stand to make any extra and would in fact effectively lose more money.
Wrong!!!

Please view your website on here ... what night did Fight Academy put on a double promotion ... Hatton/Collazo & Woods/Delisle

I have to concede though it would be fantastic to have a double world title bill on the same night and the SAME location involving Hatton and Woods ... perhaps that could happen in America??

But James ... you need to get your facts right mate ... without having documentary evidence how can you write what you have in your post?? ... or are you completely reliant on the information given to you by "Boxing Twat From Brentwood Who Crys When He is Sacked" ... whoops "Boxing Chat".

Ok yes, it was on the same night, but not on the same bill.

Of course I do not have documentary evidence, but my information didn't come from boxingchat but from various sources, which would seem to indicate that Hatton has been very heavily paid without Fight Academy making much if anything from having him on their books.

Of course, I am sure the Paris Casino will pay up nicely for his next fight, as they are not exactly reknowned for being a venue for boxing, and probably want to establish themselves, hence they will stump up a nice site fee.

I stand by what I said, Hatton's demands are high, and that is going to make life difficult for any promoter, especially when he isn't fighting at home where his drawing power is highest.

At the time when they signed him, Hatton stated that they offered him the most money, and the fact they were offering more than Warren was, must mean they are paying more than perhaps the market would dictate, in the hope of cashing in on his pulling power later down the line, which, if a Castillo fight happens, they may well do, but it's not a definite.

As I don't have access to Fight Academy's books, of course this is supposition on my part, but then I am not touting it as anything but an educated guess.

If I had all the figures to hand, I'm pretty sure I could back up my statement with pretty hard facts, to the effect it would be shown that nobody other than Hatton is making a fortune from his fights.

Care to give me some hard and fast figures that would shoot me down
?

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 23 Nov 2006, 13:16

Hobson said in Boxing News (before Woods-Johnson III) that he wasn't making a penny out of Hatton.

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 23 Nov 2006, 13:43

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Spud wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:As said earlier, Fight Acamdey have been paying Hatton very handsomely indeed. To the extent that it's unlikely they could afford to pay Clinton on the same bill in a double world title fight, which is a great shame as it would be terrific exposure for Clinton, but they wouldn't stand to make any extra and would in fact effectively lose more money.
Wrong!!!

Please view your website on here ... what night did Fight Academy put on a double promotion ... Hatton/Collazo & Woods/Delisle

I have to concede though it would be fantastic to have a double world title bill on the same night and the SAME location involving Hatton and Woods ... perhaps that could happen in America??

But James ... you need to get your facts right mate ... without having documentary evidence how can you write what you have in your post?? ... or are you completely reliant on the information given to you by "Boxing Twat From Brentwood Who Crys When He is Sacked" ... whoops "Boxing Chat".
Ok yes, it was on the same night, but not on the same bill.

Of course I do not have documentary evidence, but my information didn't come from boxingchat but from various sources, which would seem to indicate that Hatton has been very heavily paid without Fight Academy making much if anything from having him on their books.

Of course, I am sure the Paris Casino will pay up nicely for his next fight, as they are not exactly reknowned for being a venue for boxing, and probably want to establish themselves, hence they will stump up a nice site fee.

I stand by what I said, Hatton's demands are high, and that is going to make life difficult for any promoter, especially when he isn't fighting at home where his drawing power is highest.

At the time when they signed him, Hatton stated that they offered him the most money, and the fact they were offering more than Warren was, must mean they are paying more than perhaps the market would dictate, in the hope of cashing in on his pulling power later down the line, which, if a Castillo fight happens, they may well do, but it's not a definite.

As I don't have access to Fight Academy's books, of course this is supposition on my part, but then I am not touting it as anything but an educated guess.

If I had all the figures to hand, I'm pretty sure I could back up my statement with pretty hard facts, to the effect it would be shown that nobody other than Hatton is making a fortune from his fights.

Care to give me some hard and fast figures that would shoot me down
?

Hello again to you James!!!

A good reply and a pleasure having some boxing banter with someone who knows his stuff!!!

I can only comeback to you with a question ...

If you were Hatton's and Wood's promoter ... why oh why would you put 2 world champions or world leading boxers on the same bill when simple common sense says you could get 2 TV dates of them and indeed give much needed exposure for the undercard fighters??

If I were totally honest with you ... yes I have to say to you it does not make either economic sense and it does not make boxing sense either!!!

Yes the boxing fans pay the promoters wages but boxing is also a business and one in which the promoter has to make some money for himself!!!

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 23 Nov 2006, 13:52

One suggestion could be Clinton to fight a non-title bout on Hattons undercard, therefore giving himself some exposure to american audiences.
Nothing to challanging as an opponent, but seeing as Woods hasn't fought since September and the Hatton bill is at the end of January, it would give him a bit of a workout.

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 23 Nov 2006, 14:36

topper123 wrote:One suggestion could be Clinton to fight a non-title bout on Hattons undercard, therefore giving himself some exposure to american audiences.
Nothing to challanging as an opponent, but seeing as Woods hasn't fought since September and the Hatton bill is at the end of January, it would give him a bit of a workout.

Clinton Woods does not need to use Ricky Hatton to court opinion for his next fight ... lets wait and see what is in the pipeline ... maybe nothing but I am positive someone of the likes of Clinton will want to seize his opportunity of making some dough for himself now!!!

Lets see ... I hope he gets a big fight!!!

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 23 Nov 2006, 15:18

Spud wrote:
topper123 wrote:One suggestion could be Clinton to fight a non-title bout on Hattons undercard, therefore giving himself some exposure to american audiences.
Nothing to challanging as an opponent, but seeing as Woods hasn't fought since September and the Hatton bill is at the end of January, it would give him a bit of a workout.
Clinton Woods does not need to use Ricky Hatton to court opinion for his next fight ... lets wait and see what is in the pipeline ... maybe nothing but I am positive someone of the likes of Clinton will want to seize his opportunity of making some dough for himself now!!!

Lets see ... I hope he gets a big fight!!!

I hope he gets a big fight as well, but any publicity id good publicity, as the saying goes. If Clinton is going to be hanging around till April/ May time next year , then a non-title fight on a big card is a good option IMO.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 23 Nov 2006, 15:29

Spud wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Spud wrote: Wrong!!!

Please view your website on here ... what night did Fight Academy put on a double promotion ... Hatton/Collazo & Woods/Delisle

I have to concede though it would be fantastic to have a double world title bill on the same night and the SAME location involving Hatton and Woods ... perhaps that could happen in America??

But James ... you need to get your facts right mate ... without having documentary evidence how can you write what you have in your post?? ... or are you completely reliant on the information given to you by "Boxing Twat From Brentwood Who Crys When He is Sacked" ... whoops "Boxing Chat".
Ok yes, it was on the same night, but not on the same bill.

Of course I do not have documentary evidence, but my information didn't come from boxingchat but from various sources, which would seem to indicate that Hatton has been very heavily paid without Fight Academy making much if anything from having him on their books.

Of course, I am sure the Paris Casino will pay up nicely for his next fight, as they are not exactly reknowned for being a venue for boxing, and probably want to establish themselves, hence they will stump up a nice site fee.

I stand by what I said, Hatton's demands are high, and that is going to make life difficult for any promoter, especially when he isn't fighting at home where his drawing power is highest.

At the time when they signed him, Hatton stated that they offered him the most money, and the fact they were offering more than Warren was, must mean they are paying more than perhaps the market would dictate, in the hope of cashing in on his pulling power later down the line, which, if a Castillo fight happens, they may well do, but it's not a definite.

As I don't have access to Fight Academy's books, of course this is supposition on my part, but then I am not touting it as anything but an educated guess.

If I had all the figures to hand, I'm pretty sure I could back up my statement with pretty hard facts, to the effect it would be shown that nobody other than Hatton is making a fortune from his fights.

Care to give me some hard and fast figures that would shoot me down
?
Hello again to you James!!!

A good reply and a pleasure having some boxing banter with someone who knows his stuff!!!

I can only comeback to you with a question ...

If you were Hatton's and Wood's promoter ... why oh why would you put 2 world champions or world leading boxers on the same bill when simple common sense says you could get 2 TV dates of them and indeed give much needed exposure for the undercard fighters??

If I were totally honest with you ... yes I have to say to you it does not make either economic sense and it does not make boxing sense either!!!

Yes the boxing fans pay the promoters wages but boxing is also a business and one in which the promoter has to make some money for himself!!!

Becuase there are TV dates and there are TV dates? How many times has Woods appeared on US TV? Was Woods vs De Lisle on US TV?

Would Woods vs say (for arguments sake) Thomas Ulrich make US TV if IT WAS ON THE UNDERCARD OF HATTON.

I would vouch yes if was on a Hatton PPV (US PPV) and no it is was on its own.

Would Femi Fehintola vs TBA be viewed on US TV if it was one the undercard of a Hatton PPV? I would think not... If Witter vs Ndou could only make Highlights of a PPV (stateside) then Fehintola wouldn't, but Woods would.

Also, Sky are interested in titles. I'm sure FA could secure a TV date for his other fighters (outside of Woods and Hatton) if it was on a free date (unlike Swaby vs Keeton) and had a title on the line for the main event. A Matthew Hatton British title fight for instance.