Lennox Lewis has defeated every fighter he ever faced

RazorKO · Post by **RazorKO** » 21 Nov 2006, 17:42

The one fighter Im glad that Lewis ducked is John Ruiz. Could you imagine this obimination of a fight? Two big huggers which puts the WWF too shame, and Im still suprised people actually give Lewis credit for hugging Tyson to victory, he might as well left with a husband than a win with that pittiful performance.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 21 Nov 2006, 17:47

pundit wrote:Not my experience. Please back up.

Read the posts above and previous threads. Most of what you read is how Lewis is chinny, wouldnt have beat a peak Holyfield (bollox), a peak Tyson (maybe - if it went more than 4 rounds Tyson would be done). He gets slaughtered for his 2 losses, and less credit for all his wins.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 21 Nov 2006, 17:49

RazorKO wrote:The one fighter Im glad that Lewis ducked is John Ruiz. Could you imagine this obimination of a fight? Two big huggers which puts the WWF too shame, and Im still suprised people actually give Lewis credit for hugging Tyson to victory, he might as well left with a husband than a win with that pittiful performance.

Welcome to the thread Razor, I'm shocked its taken you this long to share your balanced opinions about Lennox with us this time

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 21 Nov 2006, 17:52

Collins2000 wrote:Well it's only opinions and mine is that every one of those fighters you mention would have bitch slapped Lummox. The only question in my mind is just how big a bitch slapping each would have been. But that's just my opinion of course.

How? Whoever bitch-slapped Lennox when he was focussed, which he surely would have been in those fights?

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 21 Nov 2006, 18:07

dr_devious wrote:
Collins2000 wrote:Well it's only opinions and mine is that every one of those fighters you mention would have bitch slapped Lummox. The only question in my mind is just how big a bitch slapping each would have been. But that's just my opinion of course.
How? Whoever bitch-slapped Lennox when he was focussed, which he surely would have been in those fights?

Hahahahahaha, and if my aunty had bollocks she'd be my uncle.

Which other ATG heavies got pole-axed TWICE by stiffs when they were supposedly in their prime?

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 21 Nov 2006, 18:19

Collins2000 wrote:Which other ATG heavies got pole-axed TWICE by stiffs when they were supposedly in their prime?

Rahman and McCall werent stiffs, they were both big heavyweights with a decent punch. Louis and Marciano got knocked down by blown up light heavies (more than once each) and that didnt harm their legacy too much.
Back to my original question, who beat Lewis when he was focussed?

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 21 Nov 2006, 18:24

dr_devious wrote:
Collins2000 wrote:Which other ATG heavies got pole-axed TWICE by stiffs when they were supposedly in their prime?
Rahman and McCall werent stiffs, they were both big heavyweights with a decent punch. Louis and Marciano got knocked down by blown up light heavies (more than once each) and that didnt harm their legacy too much.
Back to my original question, who beat Lewis when he was focussed?

Well, knocked down is different from knocked out. And Louis got knocked out only by Schmeling and Marciano, two other ATGs, with the first knockdown coming before and the second after Louis' title reign (while McCall and Rahman took the title from Lennox).

This said, a fighter can compare unfavorably to Joe Louis and still be an ATG heavyweight -- otherwise the list would be very short.

JC · Post by JC » 21 Nov 2006, 18:29

dr_devious wrote:
pundit wrote:Not my experience. Please back up.
Read the posts above and previous threads. Most of what you read is how Lewis is chinny, wouldnt have beat a peak Holyfield (bollox), a peak Tyson (maybe - if it went more than 4 rounds Tyson would be done). He gets slaughtered for his 2 losses, and less credit for all his wins.

I've gone back and read the thread again and I don't the agree with you. Minus the odd post here and there the concensus seems to be that Lewis was an excellent heavyweight, just not the best ever. Collins2000 said he doesn't consider him an all time great but he did state that's just his opinion.

The only person getting slaughtered is Rahman, and thats only because someone said he'd destroy Schmeling which is just silly.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 21 Nov 2006, 19:54

dr_devious wrote:
Collins2000 wrote:Which other ATG heavies got pole-axed TWICE by stiffs when they were supposedly in their prime?
Rahman and McCall werent stiffs, they were both big heavyweights with a decent punch. Louis and Marciano got knocked down by blown up light heavies (more than once each) and that didnt harm their legacy too much.
Back to my original question, who beat Lewis when he was focussed?

Apart from Bruce The Goose Seldon, McCall and Rahman are, in my opinion, the two worst heavyweight title claimants ever. Both pole-axed a prime Lewis.

Which other ATG at heavyweight in their prime were stopped by fighters of the calibre of Rahman and McCall?

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 21 Nov 2006, 22:34

Let's leave this thread to Heartbreak Kid, dr devious and Collins. They have to say the most about it and can confirm one another in their views.

Heartbreak_Kid79 · Post by **Heartbreak_Kid79** » 22 Nov 2006, 04:55

Which other ATG heavies got pole-axed TWICE by stiffs when they were supposedly in their prime?

[/quote]

Jack Dempsey had already lost 4 fights by the time he won the championships. That includes KO's.

Plus you have to remember Lewis was nearly 36 when he lost to Rahman.
At that age both Ali and Holmes were losing their titles to blown up heavyweights

Heartbreak_Kid79 · Post by **Heartbreak_Kid79** » 22 Nov 2006, 04:56

pundit wrote:Let's leave this thread to Heartbreak Kid, dr devious and Collins. They have to say the most about it and can confirm one another in their views.

Naaaaaa lets keep it going

Heartbreak_Kid79 · Post by **Heartbreak_Kid79** » 22 Nov 2006, 04:57

Decagon wrote:
Collins2000 wrote:Apart from Bruce The Goose Seldon, McCall and Rahman are, in my opinion, the two worst heavyweight title claimants ever. Both pole-axed a prime Lewis.
Shannon Briggs? Nicolai Valuev? Sergei Lyakhovich? Wladimir Klitschko? Oleg Maskaev?

How about Ruiz?

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 22 Nov 2006, 05:16

Who do you consider to be an ATG heavyweight Collins, a lot of them have got stoppages on their record?
Besides, Lewis wasnt pole-axed by McCall, the fight was controversially stopped at the time. Heartbreak Kids point about Lewis' age in the Rahman fight was correct. He also wasnt in the best shape for the fight and that is death when fighting at altitude.
Lewis clearly underestimated McCall and Rahman in their first fights, and paid the penalty. When he was focussed he never lost. He proved himself to be the best heavyweight of his generation, which was a strong one in the heavyweight division. Id put Lewis in the top 10 of all time, somewhere between 5-7.

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 22 Nov 2006, 06:38

I would put Lewis firmly in my top 10 heavyweights,but the reality is,we should'nt even be debating that Lewis is an all time great.
It's his fault he took Rahman and McCall too lightly,and as a result they will always be brought up when debating Lewis(and rightly so)
Taking someone lightly just does'nt cut it in my eyes when you are talking about the heavyweight championship of the world.It's a piss poor excuse.
With his size and talent(and lack of genuine great heavyweights in his time)he probably should never have had losses on his record.

It's a shame Bowe never braved it out and fought him.(maybe old chicken ass was afraid he was gonna hurt Lewis

)
If Lennox could have done a number on Riddick,it would improve his CV by a quite a bit.

Heartbreak_Kid79 · Post by **Heartbreak_Kid79** » 22 Nov 2006, 08:23

yiddo14 wrote:I would put Lewis firmly in my top 10 heavyweights,but the reality is,we should'nt even be debating that Lewis is an all time great.
It's his fault he took Rahman and McCall too lightly,and as a result they will always be brought up when debating Lewis(and rightly so)
Taking someone lightly just does'nt cut it in my eyes when you are talking about the heavyweight championship of the world.It's a piss poor excuse.
With his size and talent(and lack of genuine great heavyweights in his time)he probably should never have had losses on his record.

It's a shame Bowe never braved it out and fought him.(maybe old chicken ass was afraid he was gonna hurt Lewis )
If Lennox could have done a number on Riddick,it would improve his CV by a quite a bit.

Its not Lennoxs fault Bowe vaced the belt rather than face him.
Chicken Bowe feared a rerun of 1988 Olympic final

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 22 Nov 2006, 08:50

pundit wrote:And I for my part think Lennox is an ATG. Not in the league of Ali and Louis, and also a tad behind Larry Holmes or Jack Johnson, but in the ballpark of greats like George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Sonny Liston, Rocky Marciano, Gene Tunney, Jack Dempsey, Sam Langford, Jim Jeffries.

That’s the group I have him in, although I’d put him a bit below Marciano and Dempsey. And with his size and skills, Lewis matches up pretty good with most of those guys. As you mentioned, I can’t put him up there with Louis, Ali, Holmes and Johnson, but he compares pretty favorably with just about everybody else.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 22 Nov 2006, 09:17

Terence wrote:I am a massive Lewis fan. The stat is also an impressive one.

On the otherhand if he had defeated those guys from the off the stat would be even more impressive.

Agreed

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 22 Nov 2006, 09:18

Heartbreak_Kid79 wrote: Its not Lennoxs fault Bowe vaced the belt rather than face him.
Chicken Bowe feared a rerun of 1988 Olympic final

Agreed

Cojimar 1945 · Post by **Cojimar 1945** » 23 Nov 2006, 07:23

I don't recall Lewis beating many great American heavyweight hopes. Tyson and Holyfield were on the downside of their careers and the Lewis fights enhance Holyfield's legacy due to Holyfield's age and the fact that he was somewhat competitive.

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 23 Nov 2006, 07:47

Cojimar 1945 wrote:I don't recall Lewis beating many great American heavyweight hopes. Tyson and Holyfield were on the downside of their careers and the Lewis fights enhance Holyfield's legacy due to Holyfield's age and the fact that he was somewhat competitive.

Michael Grant was a big American hope,and quite a lot of people actually tipped him to beat Lewis!!

Shannon Briggs was another and so was Tommy Morrison.
Lewis completely destroyed all three.

Holyfield was the legend slayer darling of the American public when Lewis fought him.

holyfields_ear · Post by **holyfields_ear** » 23 Nov 2006, 08:07

RazorKO wrote:Im still suprised people actually give Lewis credit for hugging Tyson to victory, he might as well left with a husband than a win with that pittiful performance.

Yes, that was one hell of a hug that put Tyson on his arse.

ATG for sure. Lets be honest there were no great American heavyweight hopes around the time Lewis reached his peak. The way some people like Cojimar 1945 carry on you would think that was Lennox's fault

Head to head vs the all time heavyweight greats Ali could possibly dance his way to a tight (bordering on lucky) decision. Liston would get KO'd, Frazier better land a hell of a left very early or he goes the same way. Holmes, Foreman and Bowe are the only heavys in history who I think could possibly win more than they lost over a series of ten fights or so against Lewis. Holmes was a better boxer than Lewis, had a better jab than Lewis, and was stronger than Ali so would fare better against Lewis than the great man. Foreman could match him for strength and power. Bowe could match him in every department and was a better inside fighter but there's always that incident of him ditching the belt when Lewis was due as his mandatory. I think thats the most obvious case of ducking in the sports history and it nags away at me. Why duck a man? Unless Bowe didn't rate his own chances as highly as the rest of us and that's an interesting thought.

Heartbreak_Kid79 · Post by **Heartbreak_Kid79** » 23 Nov 2006, 08:13

If Bowe wanted to fight Lewis he would have.

Lewis beat him in the Olympic final and Bowe knew he was in for a beating.

Simple as that

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 23 Nov 2006, 09:33

[quote="holyfields_ear"][ Liston would get KO'd, Frazier better land a hell of a left very early or he goes the same wayquote]

No chance. I'm Lennox's second biggest fan on this forum and he wouldnt knock out peak Liston or Frazier. Id pick Liston to KO Lewis, and Lewis to win on points over Frazier

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 23 Nov 2006, 15:42

holyfields_ear wrote:
RazorKO wrote:Im still suprised people actually give Lewis credit for hugging Tyson to victory, he might as well left with a husband than a win with that pittiful performance.
Yes, that was one hell of a hug that put Tyson on his arse.

ATG for sure. Lets be honest there were no great American heavyweight hopes around the time Lewis reached his peak. The way some people like Cojimar 1945 carry on you would think that was Lennox's fault Head to head vs the all time heavyweight greats Ali could possibly dance his way to a tight (bordering on lucky) decision. Liston would get KO'd, Frazier better land a hell of a left very early or he goes the same way. Holmes, Foreman and Bowe are the only heavys in history who I think could possibly win more than they lost over a series of ten fights or so against Lewis. Holmes was a better boxer than Lewis, had a better jab than Lewis, and was stronger than Ali so would fare better against Lewis than the great man. Foreman could match him for strength and power. Bowe could match him in every department and was a better inside fighter but there's always that incident of him ditching the belt when Lewis was due as his mandatory. I think thats the most obvious case of ducking in the sports history and it nags away at me. Why duck a man? Unless Bowe didn't rate his own chances as highly as the rest of us and that's an interesting thought.

Are you mistaking Lewis for Louis again, mate?

Lennox Lewis has defeated every fighter he ever faced

american hopes

Re: american hopes