Lennox Lewis has defeated every fighter he ever faced

JC · Post by JC » 23 Nov 2006, 15:54

holyfields_ear wrote:Liston would get KO'd

Care to elaborate?

holyfields_ear · Post by **holyfields_ear** » 23 Nov 2006, 21:56

Collins2000 wrote:
holyfields_ear wrote:
RazorKO wrote:Im still suprised people actually give Lewis credit for hugging Tyson to victory, he might as well left with a husband than a win with that pittiful performance.
Yes, that was one hell of a hug that put Tyson on his arse.

ATG for sure. Lets be honest there were no great American heavyweight hopes around the time Lewis reached his peak. The way some people like Cojimar 1945 carry on you would think that was Lennox's fault Head to head vs the all time heavyweight greats Ali could possibly dance his way to a tight (bordering on lucky) decision. Liston would get KO'd, Frazier better land a hell of a left very early or he goes the same way. Holmes, Foreman and Bowe are the only heavys in history who I think could possibly win more than they lost over a series of ten fights or so against Lewis. Holmes was a better boxer than Lewis, had a better jab than Lewis, and was stronger than Ali so would fare better against Lewis than the great man. Foreman could match him for strength and power. Bowe could match him in every department and was a better inside fighter but there's always that incident of him ditching the belt when Lewis was due as his mandatory. I think thats the most obvious case of ducking in the sports history and it nags away at me. Why duck a man? Unless Bowe didn't rate his own chances as highly as the rest of us and that's an interesting thought.

Are you mistaking Lewis for Louis again, mate?

No because I think Louis would have been beaten by Ali by a wide margin. Don't be so patronising mate. Its no secret Ali was fortunate in a couple of fights which went to decisions. Ken Norton anybody? Ron Lyle wasn't doing too badly either. Yes he got stopped but he wasn't Lennox Lewis. Fact is Ali never fought anybody that had Lennox's power, size AND intelligence. P4P Ali is number one. Head to head is a different matter.

Onto other comments. Decagon hit the nail on the head. Frazier KO's or OUTPOINTS Lewis ONLY if Joe lands a huge left hook early on. This would put Lewis into defensive, cautious mode and thus is he outworked. However a confident Lewis overwhelms Frazier with power and strength. No need to go the distance here. Frazier loved fighting low with that bob and weave style. If Lewis got the jab going Frazier would keep eating them jabs like he did off Ali while trying to get inside. Sooner or later a wary Frazier would be decked by a huge Lewis right hand and its goodnight ala Rahman. Frazier could only fight one way and though very effective it could be his downfall. I think Lennox's chin can be criticised by all means but not his intelligence when in the ring.

As for Liston, well Ali KO 1 by jab tells us alot. If anybody has proof of a fix I'll reconsider. But any fighter that throw's a fight deserves to have their heart questioned. And what better questioning than a Lewis right hand.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 23 Nov 2006, 23:25

holyfields_ear wrote:
Collins2000 wrote:
holyfields_ear wrote: Yes, that was one hell of a hug that put Tyson on his arse.

ATG for sure. Lets be honest there were no great American heavyweight hopes around the time Lewis reached his peak. The way some people like Cojimar 1945 carry on you would think that was Lennox's fault Head to head vs the all time heavyweight greats Ali could possibly dance his way to a tight (bordering on lucky) decision. Liston would get KO'd, Frazier better land a hell of a left very early or he goes the same way. Holmes, Foreman and Bowe are the only heavys in history who I think could possibly win more than they lost over a series of ten fights or so against Lewis. Holmes was a better boxer than Lewis, had a better jab than Lewis, and was stronger than Ali so would fare better against Lewis than the great man. Foreman could match him for strength and power. Bowe could match him in every department and was a better inside fighter but there's always that incident of him ditching the belt when Lewis was due as his mandatory. I think thats the most obvious case of ducking in the sports history and it nags away at me. Why duck a man? Unless Bowe didn't rate his own chances as highly as the rest of us and that's an interesting thought.

Are you mistaking Lewis for Louis again, mate?

No because I think Louis would have been beaten by Ali by a wide margin. Don't be so patronising mate. Its no secret Ali was fortunate in a couple of fights which went to decisions. Ken Norton anybody? Ron Lyle wasn't doing too badly either. Yes he got stopped but he wasn't Lennox Lewis. Fact is Ali never fought anybody that had Lennox's power, size AND intelligence. P4P Ali is number one. Head to head is a different matter.

Onto other comments. Decagon hit the nail on the head. Frazier KO's or OUTPOINTS Lewis ONLY if Joe lands a huge left hook early on. This would put Lewis into defensive, cautious mode and thus is he outworked. However a confident Lewis overwhelms Frazier with power and strength. No need to go the distance here. Frazier loved fighting low with that bob and weave style. If Lewis got the jab going Frazier would keep eating them jabs like he did off Ali while trying to get inside. Sooner or later a wary Frazier would be decked by a huge Lewis right hand and its goodnight ala Rahman. Frazier could only fight one way and though very effective it could be his downfall. I think Lennox's chin can be criticised by all means but not his intelligence when in the ring.

As for Liston, well Ali KO 1 by jab tells us alot. If anybody has proof of a fix I'll reconsider. But any fighter that throw's a fight deserves to have their heart questioned. And what better questioning than a Lewis right hand.

It's hard not to sound patronising when the person you are talking to has only a vague knowledge of the subject at hand. But I'll try to curb my enthusiasm.

Also, I didn't realise you meant the old version of Ali. But then I guess that's the only version that an absolute peak Lewis might have a chance with. Good to see you realised this, mate.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 24 Nov 2006, 02:56

What Lewis didn't like, and couldn't handle, was a sustained fast pace. Frazier would be winding up the intensity with each passing round. Unless Lewis tames Joe early I can't see that he can go 15 with Frazier without becoming exhaused and fatigued by 10-11...

Lewis struggled with Bruno's jab and Liston's was gold standard.

wouter · Post by **wouter** » 24 Nov 2006, 07:04

Caulk Rocket wrote:Tyson had been to prison twice by the time they fought.

It is rumoured that Lennox set up the whole Desiree Washington situation so he wouldn't have to fight Tyson.
By the way, could you name the opponents Tyson & Holyfield had already destroyed when they fought Lewis in the early '90's?

holyfields_ear · Post by **holyfields_ear** » 24 Nov 2006, 07:59

Caulk Rocket wrote:Lennox Lewis was a faggot.

In the early 90's, he cherrypicked opponents who had already been destroyed by Tyson or Holyfield. Then he waited until Tyson and Holyfield were shot, and then fought them. He took a 37 year old Holyfield to a draw and close D. Tyson had been to prison twice by the time they fought.

I know the records show a draw in the first fight between Holyfield and Lewis but you destroy any credibility you might have by actually using that outcome against Lewis. EVERYBODY knows Lewis won that fight. And it wasn't even close. The draw reflects badly on the judges, the commission in charge, the sport but not Lennox Lewis. The second fight wasn't close either. Nor did Lennox ever avoid Holyfield in the early 90's. Had Evander been successful against Bowe as Lewis was against Ruddock they would have met as the winner of each was mandated to face off. But I suppose Holyfield's loss to Bowe was down to Lennox was it? In the event Bowe ducked Lewis anyway. So you see rather than being the ducker Lewis was the one actually being ducked himself.

Heartbreak_Kid79 · Post by **Heartbreak_Kid79** » 24 Nov 2006, 08:03

Caulk Rocket wrote:Lennox Lewis was a faggot.

In the early 90's, he cherrypicked opponents who had already been destroyed by Tyson or Holyfield. Then he waited until Tyson and Holyfield were shot, and then fought them. He took a 37 year old Holyfield to a draw and close D. Tyson had been to prison twice by the time they fought.

Ridiculous.
Holyfield was 36 in the first fight anyway- no one was saying he was shot before that fight.
Tyson was alrady shot when Holyfield beat him.

Holyfield hurts people more with his headbuts than his boxing
Thats why Tyson mauled his ear

wouter · Post by **wouter** » 24 Nov 2006, 08:32

Caulk Rocket wrote:
wouter wrote:
Caulk Rocket wrote:Tyson had been to prison twice by the time they fought.
It is rumoured that Lennox set up the whole Desiree Washington situation so he wouldn't have to fight Tyson.
By the way, could you name the opponents Tyson & Holyfield had already destroyed when they fought Lewis in the early '90's?
Ruddock
Tucker
Biggs
Botha
Bruno

Your definition of destroying must be winning decisions (Ruddock & Tucker) and your definition of the early '90's the year 2000 (Botha). And exactly which one of the fighters you mentioned ever faced Holyfield?

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 24 Nov 2006, 08:33

Caulk Rocket wrote:Lennox Lewis was a faggot.

In the early 90's, he cherrypicked opponents who had already been destroyed by Tyson or Holyfield. Then he waited until Tyson and Holyfield were shot, and then fought them. He took a 37 year old Holyfield to a draw and close D. Tyson had been to prison twice by the time they fought.

don't think so. Didn't Tyson pay Lewis to step aside.

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 24 Nov 2006, 08:56

Caulk Rocket wrote:Lennox Lewis was a faggot.

In the early 90's, he cherrypicked opponents who had already been destroyed by Tyson or Holyfield. Then he waited until Tyson and Holyfield were shot, and then fought them. He took a 37 year old Holyfield to a draw and close D. Tyson had been to prison twice by the time they fought.

Tyson paid 4 million to Lewis to step aside whilst he faced another belt holder in his quest to unify.
Once he acquired the other belt he relinquished the WBC belt rather than face Lewis.
Tyson did'nt want none of Lewis.

As for the Holyfield fights....if you think Holy took him to a draw in their first fight,you clearly lack the ability of sight,or have at least avoided watching this fight.
Lewis got screwed over in the first fight.It was simply the biggest robbery in the history of boxing,no less.Everybody knows this.
The 2nd fight was closer(mainly due to Lewis taking Holy a lot less serious like he tended to do when he thought a fight would be easy)but Lewis still won.

Heartbreak_Kid79 · Post by **Heartbreak_Kid79** » 24 Nov 2006, 09:01

yiddo14 wrote:
Caulk Rocket wrote:Lennox Lewis was a faggot.

In the early 90's, he cherrypicked opponents who had already been destroyed by Tyson or Holyfield. Then he waited until Tyson and Holyfield were shot, and then fought them. He took a 37 year old Holyfield to a draw and close D. Tyson had been to prison twice by the time they fought.
Tyson paid 4 million to Lewis to step aside whilst he faced another belt holder in his quest to unify.
Once he acquired the other belt he relinquished the WBC belt rather than face Lewis.
Tyson did'nt want none of Lewis.

As for the Holyfield fights....if you think Holy took him to a draw in their first fight,you clearly lack the ability of sight,or have at least avoided watching this fight.
Lewis got screwed over in the first fight.It was simply the biggest robbery in the history of boxing,no less.Everybody knows this.
The 2nd fight was closer(mainly due to Lewis taking Holy a lot less serious like he tended to do when he thought a fight would be easy)but Lewis still won.

HBO scored the 2nd fight for Lewis anyway.
It was close but Lewis edged it

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 25 Nov 2006, 14:16

Lennox KOs Liston? That's funny . . . .

Andy Mac · Post by **Andy Mac** » 26 Nov 2006, 06:11

dempseyfire wrote:Lennox KOs Liston? That's funny . . . .

I think you are right. After all EVERYONE knows that a FLICK from Ali has ten times the power of a full blown right from Lennox

RazorKO · Post by **RazorKO** » 26 Nov 2006, 07:56

Andy Mac wrote:
dempseyfire wrote:Lennox KOs Liston? That's funny . . . .
I think you are right. After all EVERYONE knows that a FLICK from Ali has ten times the power of a full blown right from Lennox

Well everyone knows Liston took a dive in that fight, theres no way that right from Ali would knock a man like Liston down when Sonny had proved he could take a very good punch when he took those ripping shots from Cleveland Williams in both fights.

If Liston can take a heavy punch from Williams without even flinching than I say he could walk though everything Lewis had to offer. The question is what round would Liston spark Lewis in?

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 26 Nov 2006, 22:57

Heartbreak_Kid79 wrote:
pundit wrote:
Heartbreak_Kid79 wrote: Anyway Lennox has still beaten everyone he has ever faced. Fact
And........ ?

Lewis and Marciano stand out from Tunney, Bowe, Johnsson.

Tunney only defended the title at HW twice, Bowe was only on top for one year. Johnsson lost ot back to Floyd Paterson very quickly.

Lewis and marciano however are all time greats

Well, but so is definitely also Tunney.

Heartbreak_Kid79 · Post by **Heartbreak_Kid79** » 27 Nov 2006, 04:50

OK Tunney is an all time great as well, but how many fights did he have at heavyweight? He only made a couple of defences.

He spent most of his career lower weight categories

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 27 Nov 2006, 10:57

Heartbreak_Kid79 wrote:OK Tunney is an all time great as well, but how many fights did he have at heavyweight? He only made a couple of defences.

He spent most of his career lower weight categories

He spent most of his career at light-heavyweight, where he is a top 3 ATG, beating among other opponents the great Harry Greb in a majority of bouts. Then he stepped up, won a couple of tough eliminators (Gibbons, Risko), and toyed twice with the great Jack Dempsey. OK, his final defence against a certain Tom Heeney is nothing to write home about.

However, like Lewis Tunney was undoubteldy the best heavyweight in the world for a few years*, and like Lewis he retired on top.

P

* unless you're called Brockton Blockbuster and promote a certain George Godfrey, who most don't have in their top 3.

RazorKO · Post by **RazorKO** » 27 Nov 2006, 11:51

Decagon wrote:According to Liston, he was put down legitimately by that shot and although he could have gotten up, he didn't because he though Ali was crazy. Ali had his feet firmly planted, and he landed a solid power shot that Liston didn't see coming. Heck, watch both Williams fights, and you won't see one punch by Williams that Liston doesn't see coming. It's a different type of punch.

Well I see your point about suprise shots as most people have said that a suprise punch are the punches that knock you out flat.

But from what I recall from the fight Ali was on the backfoot and looked like he flicked his right hand which was just a punch for the sake of connecting amd down went Liston. But after seeing Williams throw everything he had to offer at Liston which didnt even move him it does make you wonder if Liston did indeed take a dive or not, as those Williams left/right hooks he landed on Liston - especially in the first fight were savage to watch.