Calzaghe gives up IBF belt.

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 27 Nov 2006, 14:33

Remember this is Calzaghe we are talking about.I will only beleive in the Taylor fight once they are walking to the ring.

Wonder how much Warren will have to pay Jermain to come to Wales?Because I cannot for the life of me see Joe going over to the US like he should.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 27 Nov 2006, 15:51

Axe wrote:
Taki... wrote:
Axe wrote:Stieglitz is a real stiff, this means nothing at all.

Who is he going to fight for the belt? I see Markussen is still #3, and Barrios at 2#.
My money is on Haussler/Stieglitz.

Btw, Haussler is #3 now.

1 Robert Stieglitz IBF INTERCONTINENTAL CHAMPION Germany
2 Alejandro Berrio Colombia
3 Danillo Haussler Germany
4 Jeff Lacy United States
5 Luciene Bute France
6 Carl Froch
7 Dennis Inkin Germany
8 Sergey Tatevosyan Russian Federation
9 Jackson Chanet France
10 Rudy Markussen Denmark
11 Jurgen Brahmer Germany
12 Mario Veit Germany
13 Peter Manfredo, Jr. United States
14 Yusuf Mack USBA CHAMPION United States
15 David Gogiya Russian Federation
Finally they updated (today, lol)...only took them 6 weeks since Rudy lost. Haussler is even worse than Berrio. The winner of this just might be one of the weakest champs in boxing, period.

And why is Lacy at #4? Perhaps a win next week will move him into the mix, he deserves it far more than any of the above 3.

My saying all along. Lacy regains the IBF belt with an impressive KO over some stiff, and Calzaghe and Lacy can re-unify. And here you have it: another super-mega-hyperfight. The kind of fight we've been waiting for all along. Absolutely career-defining. Who needs Kessler or Taylor or a light-heavyweight beltholder if you can slap Lacy. Again and again and again.

monkeybusiness · Post by **monkeybusiness** » 27 Nov 2006, 15:55

Calzaghe gives up alphabet belt?
Surely, like Tarver and Johnson in '04, it was to make a massive fight which was for the good of the sport?
Peter Manfredo? Uh Oh

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 27 Nov 2006, 15:58

pundit wrote:
Axe wrote:
Taki... wrote: My money is on Haussler/Stieglitz.

Btw, Haussler is #3 now.

1 Robert Stieglitz IBF INTERCONTINENTAL CHAMPION Germany
2 Alejandro Berrio Colombia
3 Danillo Haussler Germany
4 Jeff Lacy United States
5 Luciene Bute France
6 Carl Froch
7 Dennis Inkin Germany
8 Sergey Tatevosyan Russian Federation
9 Jackson Chanet France
10 Rudy Markussen Denmark
11 Jurgen Brahmer Germany
12 Mario Veit Germany
13 Peter Manfredo, Jr. United States
14 Yusuf Mack USBA CHAMPION United States
15 David Gogiya Russian Federation
Finally they updated (today, lol)...only took them 6 weeks since Rudy lost. Haussler is even worse than Berrio. The winner of this just might be one of the weakest champs in boxing, period.

And why is Lacy at #4? Perhaps a win next week will move him into the mix, he deserves it far more than any of the above 3.
My saying all along. Lacy regains the IBF belt with an impressive KO over some stiff, and Calzaghe and Lacy can re-unify. And here you have it: another super-mega-hyperfight. The kind of fight we've been waiting for all along. Absolutely career-defining. Who needs Kessler or Taylor or a light-heavyweight beltholder if you can slap Lacy. Again and again and again.

Calm down Pundit. There is no chance of a Calzaghe/Lacy remtach. If we're being honest Kessler is more likely to fight the 'new' IBF champion than Calzaghe... I bet you'll be singing Stieglitz/Haussler/Lacy's praises then, eh?

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 27 Nov 2006, 16:06

Taki... wrote:
pundit wrote:
Axe wrote: Finally they updated (today, lol)...only took them 6 weeks since Rudy lost. Haussler is even worse than Berrio. The winner of this just might be one of the weakest champs in boxing, period.

And why is Lacy at #4? Perhaps a win next week will move him into the mix, he deserves it far more than any of the above 3.
My saying all along. Lacy regains the IBF belt with an impressive KO over some stiff, and Calzaghe and Lacy can re-unify. And here you have it: another super-mega-hyperfight. The kind of fight we've been waiting for all along. Absolutely career-defining. Who needs Kessler or Taylor or a light-heavyweight beltholder if you can slap Lacy. Again and again and again.
Calm down Pundit. There is no chance of a Calzaghe/Lacy remtach. If we're being honest Kessler is more likely to fight the 'new' IBF champion than Calzaghe... I bet you'll be singing Stieglitz/Haussler/Lacy's praises then, eh?

If we're honest we know that there is no chance in hell that Calzaghe would ever fight Kessler, unless he'd suddenly grow balls and fire Warren.

There is also no chance in hell Calzaghe would ever fight an evasive counterpuncher. But since the IBF won't take orders from Warren on who will be Calzaghe's mandatories, Calzaghe might have to one day if he would keep the IBF belt.

And this is the one and only reason why they turn the IBF belt down. Not controlling Calzaghe's opponents is a risk Warren can't and won't take.

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 27 Nov 2006, 16:11

pundit wrote: If we're honest we know that there is no chance in hell that Calzaghe would ever fight Kessler, unless he'd suddenly grow balls and fire Warren.

There is also no chance in hell Calzaghe would ever fight an evasive counterpuncher. But since the IBF won't take orders from Warren on who will be Calzaghe's mandatories, Calzaghe might have to one day if he would keep the IBF belt.

And this is the one and only reason why they turn the IBF belt down. Not controlling Calzaghe's opponents is a risk Warren can't and won't take.

If there was enough money involved Calzaghe (and Warren) would fight Kessler in a heartbeat, to believe any different is very naive.
If you think allegedly or any promoter puts risk ahead of a massive payday (especially when a fighter is coming to the end of his career) then you're living in a dream world...

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 27 Nov 2006, 16:24

Taki... wrote:
pundit wrote: If we're honest we know that there is no chance in hell that Calzaghe would ever fight Kessler, unless he'd suddenly grow balls and fire Warren.

There is also no chance in hell Calzaghe would ever fight an evasive counterpuncher. But since the IBF won't take orders from Warren on who will be Calzaghe's mandatories, Calzaghe might have to one day if he would keep the IBF belt.

And this is the one and only reason why they turn the IBF belt down. Not controlling Calzaghe's opponents is a risk Warren can't and won't take.
If there was enough money involved Calzaghe (and Warren) would fight Kessler in a heartbeat, to believe any different is very naive.
If you think allegedly allegedly or any promoter puts risk ahead of a massive payday (especially when a fighter is coming to the end of his career) then you're living in a dream world...

Yeah of course taki dearest.

"Counter-balancing" again?

PS: take your head out of FWarren's digestive system. You'll enjoy a clearer view of the world outside.

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 27 Nov 2006, 16:30

Taki... wrote:
pundit wrote: If we're honest we know that there is no chance in hell that Calzaghe would ever fight Kessler, unless he'd suddenly grow balls and fire Warren.

There is also no chance in hell Calzaghe would ever fight an evasive counterpuncher. But since the IBF won't take orders from Warren on who will be Calzaghe's mandatories, Calzaghe might have to one day if he would keep the IBF belt.

And this is the one and only reason why they turn the IBF belt down. Not controlling Calzaghe's opponents is a risk Warren can't and won't take.
If there was enough money involved Calzaghe (and Warren) would fight Kessler in a heartbeat, to believe any different is very naive.
If you think allegedly allegedly or any promoter puts risk ahead of a massive payday (especially when a fighter is coming to the end of his career) then you're living in a dream world...

Warren never put risk first in Joe's career at anytime.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 27 Nov 2006, 16:33

Taki... wrote:
pundit wrote: If we're honest we know that there is no chance in hell that Calzaghe would ever fight Kessler, unless he'd suddenly grow balls and fire Warren.

There is also no chance in hell Calzaghe would ever fight an evasive counterpuncher. But since the IBF won't take orders from Warren on who will be Calzaghe's mandatories, Calzaghe might have to one day if he would keep the IBF belt.

And this is the one and only reason why they turn the IBF belt down. Not controlling Calzaghe's opponents is a risk Warren can't and won't take.
If there was enough money involved Calzaghe (and Warren) would fight Kessler in a heartbeat, to believe any different is very naive.
If you think allegedly allegedly or any promoter puts risk ahead of a massive payday (especially when a fighter is coming to the end of his career) then you're living in a dream world...

Yeah, Calzaghe must be making a fortune fighting the likes of Bika and Manfredo!....

My biggest problem is deciding who is the biggest let down, Joe or Wicky!!?... its a tough call as they have both shoved their credibility down the toilet... but at least Joe still has the excuse of being tied to Warren, what Wickys excuse now??!....

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 27 Nov 2006, 16:34

pundit wrote:
Taki... wrote:
pundit wrote: If we're honest we know that there is no chance in hell that Calzaghe would ever fight Kessler, unless he'd suddenly grow balls and fire Warren.

There is also no chance in hell Calzaghe would ever fight an evasive counterpuncher. But since the IBF won't take orders from Warren on who will be Calzaghe's mandatories, Calzaghe might have to one day if he would keep the IBF belt.

And this is the one and only reason why they turn the IBF belt down. Not controlling Calzaghe's opponents is a risk Warren can't and won't take.
If there was enough money involved Calzaghe (and Warren) would fight Kessler in a heartbeat, to believe any different is very naive.
If you think allegedly allegedly allegedly or any promoter puts risk ahead of a massive payday (especially when a fighter is coming to the end of his career) then you're living in a dream world...
Yeah of course taki dearest.
"Counter-balancing" again?

PS: take your face out of FWarren's digestive system. You enjoy a clearer view outside.

Who is 'counter balancing'? If Warren was desperate for Calzaghe not to have a risky fight then why target Hopkins and Taylor (and WHY fight a puncher like Lacy)? Both of whom are just as dangerous, if not more so, than Kessler. If you think it's about anything more than 'margins' you need to pull your head out of your own digestive system.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 27 Nov 2006, 16:36

Mattyp151 wrote:
Taki... wrote:
pundit wrote: If we're honest we know that there is no chance in hell that Calzaghe would ever fight Kessler, unless he'd suddenly grow balls and fire Warren.

There is also no chance in hell Calzaghe would ever fight an evasive counterpuncher. But since the IBF won't take orders from Warren on who will be Calzaghe's mandatories, Calzaghe might have to one day if he would keep the IBF belt.

And this is the one and only reason why they turn the IBF belt down. Not controlling Calzaghe's opponents is a risk Warren can't and won't take.
If there was enough money involved Calzaghe (and Warren) would fight Kessler in a heartbeat, to believe any different is very naive.
If you think allegedly allegedly allegedly or any promoter puts risk ahead of a massive payday (especially when a fighter is coming to the end of his career) then you're living in a dream world...
Warren never put risk first in Joe's career at anytime.

He puts control over Joe's career first at all time. Which means he cannot afford that a boxing federation would select Joe's opponents -- and possibly select risky ones

.

Now, the WBO will put up with everything Warren wishes, the IBF won't. This is why Joe keeps the drop dead shitty WBO belt but dumps the somewhat more meaningful IBF belt. It is simply too meaningful for Sports Network to handle.

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 27 Nov 2006, 16:39

Mattyp151 wrote:
Taki... wrote:
pundit wrote: If we're honest we know that there is no chance in hell that Calzaghe would ever fight Kessler, unless he'd suddenly grow balls and fire Warren.

There is also no chance in hell Calzaghe would ever fight an evasive counterpuncher. But since the IBF won't take orders from Warren on who will be Calzaghe's mandatories, Calzaghe might have to one day if he would keep the IBF belt.

And this is the one and only reason why they turn the IBF belt down. Not controlling Calzaghe's opponents is a risk Warren can't and won't take.
If there was enough money involved Calzaghe (and Warren) would fight Kessler in a heartbeat, to believe any different is very naive.
If you think allegedly allegedly allegedly or any promoter puts risk ahead of a massive payday (especially when a fighter is coming to the end of his career) then you're living in a dream world...
Warren never put risk first in Joe's career at anytime.

It's clear that he is generally unwilling to risk any of his big names unless the odd are stacked almost completely in their favour, or it suits him.

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 27 Nov 2006, 16:52

From a purely business POV Warren has been very clever with Calzaghe's career.
For much of Calzaghe's 'reign' there have been NO hugely bankable match-ups at 168 (can anyone see Ottke/Clazaghe or Calzaghe/Beyer making any kind of splash in the US). Hopkins and Jones were both huge paydays, but Jones in his prime would've beaten Calzaghe, especially as Calzaghe would've had to move to 175. Hopkins (a more winnable fight for Calzaghe) had bigger (although physically smaller) fish to fry at 160. Fighting stiffs like Pudwill and Salem probably return more profit (considering they were probably paid peanuts) than many better match-ups. Lacy was a dream come true, because he brought US TV and massive money, Kessler brings nothing like the same kind of rewards for (only possibly) as much, if not more, risk. It's obvious that Warren is looking for Lacy-like money again and that only comes with US (or US based) fighters.

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 27 Nov 2006, 17:04

Taki... wrote:From a purely business POV Warren has been very clever with Calzaghe's career.
For much of Calzaghe's 'reign' there have been NO hugely bankable match-ups at 168 (can anyone see Ottke/Clazaghe or Calzaghe/Beyer making any kind of splash in the US). Hopkins and Jones were both huge paydays, but Jones in his prime would've beaten Calzaghe, especially as Calzaghe would've had to move to 175. Hopkins (a more winnable fight for Calzaghe) had bigger (although physically smaller) fish to fry at 160. Fighting stiffs like Pudwill and Salem probably return more profit (considering they were probably paid peanuts) than many better match-ups. Lacy was a dream come true, because he brought US TV and massive money, Kessler brings nothing like the same kind of rewards for (only possibly) as much, if not more, risk. It's obvious that Warren is looking for Lacy-like money again and that only comes with US (or US based) fighters.

Has he really been that clever though? What about speculating to accumulate?

Had he taken any terms on offer to get Calzaghe fights against the likes of Ottke and Beyer, then Joe could have cleaned out this division and thus made himself a much more attractive proposition to the big name fighters around his weight. Even if he didn't fight Jones or Hopkins, he'd be in a better position now to negotiate the big money fights on offer.

For me, most of the time, Frank takes a negative, short term view to his fighters careers.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 27 Nov 2006, 17:05

Taki... wrote:From a purely business POV Warren has been very clever with Calzaghe's career.
For much of Calzaghe's 'reign' there have been NO hugely bankable match-ups at 168 (can anyone see Ottke/Clazaghe or Calzaghe/Beyer making any kind of splash in the US).

No, but it would make huge splashes in Germany and the UK, and the money in Germany is good. However, Calzaghe was allowed to fight only a stiff called Mario Veit in Germany -- which incidentally was his biggest money fight ever. Hence the reason for Calzaghe's strange matchups is evidently NOT that the money wouldn't be good in Germany. The reason is that Calzaghe is allowed to fight only stiffs.

Btw, don't our Danish friends here tell us that Team Palle offered Calzaghe a record purse -- something like 3 million USD? Well, maybe these disturbing news haven't made their way into FWarren's digestive system. So let's just forget about them and conclude that fighting Bika and Ashira and Mgryktchiangyaqan was surely much more profitable

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 27 Nov 2006, 17:16

pundit wrote:
Taki... wrote:From a purely business POV Warren has been very clever with Calzaghe's career.
For much of Calzaghe's 'reign' there have been NO hugely bankable match-ups at 168 (can anyone see Ottke/Clazaghe or Calzaghe/Beyer making any kind of splash in the US).
No, but it would make huge splashes in Germany and the UK, and the money in Germany is good. However, Calzaghe was allowed to fight only a stiff called Mario Veit in Germany -- which incidentally was his biggest money fight ever. The reason for this strange choice of matchcups is evidently NOT that the money wouldn't be good in Germany, the reason is that Calzaghe is allowed to fight only stiffs.

Btw, don't our Danish friends here tell us that Team Palle offered Calzaghe a record purse -- something like 3 million USD? Well, maybe these disturbing news haven't made their way into FWarren's digestive system. So let's therefore jsut forget about them and conclude that fighting Bika and Ashira and Mgryktchiangyaqan was surely much more profitable

Well Calzaghe was on SKY at the time Ottke and Beyer were champions, ergo NO SPLASH in the UK. And Sven Ottke couldn't lose in Germany... you couldn't even knock the German down without getting a warning.
Palle offered $3 mill... great! Although I dare say even a shot Roy Jones could top that.
Btw, was Palle offering that 3 mill around the time that the Ashira and Mgr fights were in the offing, or has the concept of time being linear escaped you in your haste to make an invalid point? Anyway the point was profit for Warren NOT profit for Calzaghe.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 27 Nov 2006, 17:58

I would tip Froch to beat most around him.

Bute and Lacy would beat him (especially Bute).

But Berrio, Steiglitz, and Haussler should be straight forward in Britain.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 27 Nov 2006, 18:53

Neri1983 wrote:Couldnt he have got the Stieglitz mandatory out the way instead of fighting Bika?

that's what pisses everyone off. :x

the chance to unify all 4 belts is worth keeping this ibf title.

usually i wouldn't mind the title being stripped.

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 27 Nov 2006, 19:06

hitman_hatton1 wrote:
Neri1983 wrote:Couldnt he have got the Stieglitz mandatory out the way instead of fighting Bika?
that's what pisses everyone off. :x

the chance to unify all 4 belts is worth keeping this ibf title.

usually i wouldn't mind the title being stripped.

Bollocks, half the titles knocking around aren't worth the imitation gold they're printed on. The IBF's supermiddle rankings are a joke!
The only thing having all 4 titles does is cost a boxer 4 times the sanctioning fee.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 27 Nov 2006, 19:30

Taki... wrote:
hitman_hatton1 wrote:
Neri1983 wrote:Couldnt he have got the Stieglitz mandatory out the way instead of fighting Bika?
that's what pisses everyone off. :x

the chance to unify all 4 belts is worth keeping this ibf title.

usually i wouldn't mind the title being stripped.
Bollocks, half the titles knocking around aren't worth the imitation gold they're printed on. The IBF's supermiddle rankings are a joke!
The only thing having all 4 titles does is cost a boxer 4 times the sanctioning fee.

It's really simple.

IBF title > WBO title.

Why? Because the IBF tends to require from its beltholders to fight decent mandatories.

Now what title does Calzaghe keep? The WBO title.

Hence the trouble of not to being able to select his opponents seems to trouble him and his team more than the higher worth of the IBF title attracts him.

Btw, if all belts are worthless, why doesn't Calzaghe dump BOTH the IBF belt and the WBO belt and becomes Kessler's mandatory? This he would be on the day after announcing his decision, and Kessler would ahve to take him on in this case.

But of course this Calzaghe does not do -- he does not want to be Kessler's mandatory, because in this case he would have to fight him.

Conclusion: keeping the WBO title and droping the IBF title is the best possible strategy to protect Calzaghe against unpleasant opposition.

Any more questions? I don't think so.

P

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 27 Nov 2006, 19:53

pundit wrote:
Taki... wrote:
hitman_hatton1 wrote: that's what pisses everyone off. :x

the chance to unify all 4 belts is worth keeping this ibf title.

usually i wouldn't mind the title being stripped.
Bollocks, half the titles knocking around aren't worth the imitation gold they're printed on. The IBF's supermiddle rankings are a joke!
The only thing having all 4 titles does is cost a boxer 4 times the sanctioning fee.
It's really simple.

IBF title > WBO title.

Why? Because the IBF tends to require from its beltholders to fight decent mandatories.

Now what title does Calzaghe keep? The WBO title.

Hence the trouble of not to being able to select his opponents seems to trouble him and his team more than the higher worth of the IBF title attracts him.

Btw, if all belts are worthless, why doesn't Calzaghe dump BOTH the IBF belt and the WBO belt and becomes Kessler's mandatory? This he would be on the day after announcing his decision, and Kessler would ahve to take him on in this case.

But of course this Calzaghe does not do -- he does not want to be Kessler's mandatory, because in this case he would have to fight him.

Conclusion: keeping the WBO title and droping the IBF title is the best possible strategy to protect Calzaghe against unpleasant opposition.

Any more questions? I don't think so.

P

Hahahahahaha... decent mandatories? We are talking about Stieglitz! And assuming Calzaghe had beaten him the #2 on the IBF's stiffs list is Berrio, who was KO'd by Stieglitz... shit, then maybe Lacy and Haussler would box off for that 'decent' manadatory spot you're talking up.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 27 Nov 2006, 20:03

I bet Kessler after he fights Andrade will fight the winner of whoever fights for the vacant IBF title and then he'll have even more of a rightful reason to fight Calzaghe and he'll gain more of the hardcore fans on his side then.

Joe will look even worse if he turned him down then!

Wish he didn't give up the belt, one more mandatory surely couldn't hurt and fighters are getting too obsessed with pleasing America, they get pleased enough already!

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 28 Nov 2006, 03:04

Do you know the saddest thing,Joe Calzaghe is 34 years old,and still trying to wow US audiences.
With his talent and ability,he should have moved there years ago,he would be worth 5 times as much as he is now,and be a PPV star in his own right.
If it was all simply about money and PPV ratings,why did'nt he do this?
It is clearly the best option if you wanna make some serious,serious wedge.
I don't think being a homely lad is a good enough reason either.He did'nt even have to move there,just fight in the US regularly.
If Calzaghe is really that money orientated,then why has'nt he done this?

coneye · Post by **coneye** » 28 Nov 2006, 03:13

Joe , get over him, he had talent he didint have balls, he's done what he wanted to do made shitloads o fmoney defending a worthless belt,

Simple really, admire him and his managment, for making the money, they made while taking no risk, while the ballsy fighters have been seen all round the world in wars for fack all.

But thats it , its now payback time for taking the piss, just don't bother watching or discussing him, enough is enough.

Deram · Post by **Deram** » 28 Nov 2006, 04:54

Kessler offered Calzaghe 3.4 mill US$ which would be double Joe's hitherto highest purse...

think about that.

Even knowing that one or two people still say... "well, but I don't think the fight makes enohgh money.. so it should not happen..."

WTF?

That is like going to Target shop and being offered an Ipod for 30US$ and then replying.. "Hmm.. I don't think you guys are making money.. so I don't want the Ipod".

How TF is it Calzaghe's business if the fight makes money? Bottom line is that he was offered double any purse he has ever made.