Dennis wrote:emile,
You posted the info for the 201# bout. Do you know of any other amateur bouts available on the web? I am more interested in the bigger weight classes because those are the guys that I'm training or assisting. I would like 152# on up to the 201+ class. I'm interested in top international bouts such as duals, European Championships, Asian Championships and World Championships. The more recent the better.
The only way I would find them is the same way anyone else would - by searching on YouTube or asking people in forums. You might try the ABA forum. By looking at files from the person who posted the Poyatsika fight though, you'll find two clips of Italy's Roberto Cammarelle against Russian Islam Timurziev.
emile wrote:The only way I would find them is the same way anyone else would - by searching on YouTube or asking people in forums. You might try the ABA forum. By looking at files from the person who posted the Poyatsika fight though, you'll find two clips of Italy's Roberto Cammarelle against Russian Islam Timurziev.
Just a reminder that the ABA ratings are NOT official rankings, i.e., AIBA. Fun to look at, though.
The international experience and more training camps to remind some of our boxers how hard they need to train is very important. I think USA Boxing should conduct more training camps throughout the year and not just before an international tournament. I would like to see boxers going to them weeks if not months before international competition. That way the boxers can practice what they learn and get in better shape before they box.
In a perfect world, Dennis, where USA Boxing had the money for the camps and the boxers could take off time from school and work..... There aren't ever camps before a dual since they are a one, maybe two, day event. Most, if not all, of our top boxers are constantly training so it isn't as if they are, um, rusty.
boxmel wrote:Just a reminder that the ABA ratings are NOT official rankings, i.e., AIBA. Fun to look at, though.
Thats becoming your favourite saying Mel!
No they are not AIBA official rankings, because they never bother to do any.
The BBC, Euro Sport, & a number of international boxing websites and newspapers, have all been using them on there coverage of International Boxing. You can listen to the commentry on the above link to the Cammarelle bout & Holdsworth refers to the rankings.
You should use my rankings for a reference only, you dont have to agree with them & you dont have to use them. I try to make them as accurate & fair as can be. Some people are happy they exist some people do not agree with them at all.
The AIBA or EABA never complained and never produce an alternitive. I have sent numerous emails to the EABA to see if they would consinder the rankings, but no reply.
Take them as they are, but official if that means anything, they are not!
i'm in the hotel room right now and so are some other boxers from team usa. we just worked out. i have a dvd of the world championships in china including finals, semis, and one bracket of the quarters, i don't mind to send it to those interested. the guy i'm fighting won the 2004 world university games and i have a video of him that i've been watching. i fought there for usa and lost to ireland. the ukrainian used to fight regular heavy but moved up to super since the championships in china where he lost to the cuban olympian. i agree with dennis i wish we had more camps and earlier than the fights. i think a2p will change the way some things are run. team usa will be checking this from my account until saturday to answer any questions the amateur boxing public may ask of us from our hotel
Hey Luke! Thanks for posting on the forum. Zac Young, one of the two AIBAs, has promised to send me the results so I can put on my web site - and he's going to take pictures for posting, too. I'll be happy to get your info, too.
Please tell Roberto, David, Oscar, Luis, Keith and Sean I said hi - and the best of luck to all of you!
Luke - Good Luck Saturday. I hope team USA proves me wrong and wins the dual. I will be there supporting you guys.
If you can find a way to post some of those videos that would be great. If not, I would love a copy of the DVD.
You are right that some things will change with A2P. The U.S. Championships were moved from February to June. Hopefully, there will be more camps and more competitions. I'm glad that you like the idea of camps further in advance of the competitions rather than just immediately prior to the competitions. It is sort of like cramming for a test. Some people do it just fine, while others need to have more time to study and absorb the knowledge.
I have a few questions for you to get you started.
You said you worked out tonight. Did you guys go very hard or are you tapering off so that you peak for Saturday?
Did you guys spar and if not when was the last sparring session?
How far are you guys running and how fast?
As a super-heavy I'm sure you don't lead the pack during the running drills, but who are the true speedsters during those drills?
I know you only started boxing 5 years ago, but how many bouts of experience do you have?
Most super-heavies do not get as many bouts per year as many boxers in the smaller weight classes.
Have you boxed in any tournaments since the 2006 U.S. Championships?
Come introduce yourself to me on Saturday night and I will be happy to answer all your questions in person and get your address to mail you a copy of the world championships dvd.
I will make sure that I introduce myself to you and the other boxers I don't already know. I won't be hard to miss - I too was a super-heavy boxer. 6'6" and currently 250 lbs.
Update on USA-Ukraine dual. There will be no light heavey match (problems getting a U.S. boxer to participate; Oscar Venegas is not competing at 112. He was brought out to Harvey only to find out there was no Ukraine at 51 kg/112 Lbs. Since he had starved himself prior to coming in order to make weight, he ate up a storm after being sent home. Then he was called to come again and came in overweight. He got yo-yo'd due to, in my estimation, bad planing. So we are now down to 9 matches instead of 11. I will have the results tomorrow night.
It also appears that the US Championships will NOT be the qualifier for the U.S. Pan American team. Championships are being held in June and the Pan Am Games are in July but there will be Continental box-offs prior in between February and May. Possibility that there will be a Pan Am Box-off for the U.S. in Colorado Springs in January. Stay tuned.
There will only be nine bouts because of an injury to Lopez and no fight for Venegas.
Obviously Carey was able to win some fights to make USA Boxing's Elite Team and therefore has the right to be there. The top four boxers are all supposed to get international trips from what I hear.
We will have to wait and see how they do. Good luck to all the boxers.
Thank you for repeating my statement on Lopez and Venegas. Makes it for real, I guess.
David Carey had the "weak" side of the bracket at the U.S. Championships this year and there weren't any real super stars. Doesn't make him an "elite" boxer. His #4 position is only good until the end of the year and the rankings start over again in 2007.
Anyone in the top 5, and lower if necessary, gets a chance to participate in an international event, whether here or abroad. Hopefully, between all our qualifying events and the Box-Offs next year, there will be opportunities for all the top ranked athletes. If not, then our U.S. Olympic team will participate in all the international duals and tournaments.
We won 3 bouts, thanks to Luis Ramos, Keith Thurman and Shawn Porter.
I understand that Luke Runion complained about my dissing David Carey. My only point is that Carey doesn't have the experience of most of our ranked boxers. I am, however, very proud of him as I think he's one of the few Alaska boxers to ever compete in international competiton. It's hard for athletes in Alaska to get good experience and to be able to pay their way out of their LBC and into the Lower 40 to compete. I think this Dual was a very good experience and will, hopefully, make him better. As a judge, I try to point out what I see, pro and con, regarding our boxers - I never attack them from a negative point of view. I also heard that the Ukraine referee sucked.
The US v Ukraine was a good show. Here are my observations. First, there was a lot of holding, clinching and wrestling by many of the Ukranian boxers. Second, our team performed slightly better than I expected even though we won just 3 bouts like I predicted. Third, for the most part the USA boxers were in good physical condition. Fourth, the USA boxers handled the ridiculous amount of holding in some bouts with a surprising amount of sportsmanship. Some boxers would have resorted to flagrant fouls, but these boxers represented the U.S. well and with class. Finally, our boxers need a lot more of this kind of experience and exposure. It will allow them to realize that they might need to work a little harder, but if they do they can defeat some of the best boxers in the world.
1st bout (which was at 112) Ceron v. Chygaev. Too much holding by the Ukrainian boxer. I thought this bout was a lot closer than the score. Ceron moved up to 112 to face a bigger opponent. Warren would have defeated this guy and I would have liked to have seen how Yanez would have done. Ceron handled the adversity with class. The ref allowed the UKR boxer to hold whenever he wanted.
2nd bout - 119. Clark was hurt in the first round and came back strong. He boxed much better in the 2nd round and I though even more so in the 3rd and 4th. It was a close bout. Clark performed much better than I had anticipated. He also looked much stronger than from what I have seen in the past. He also hit harder so he is going in the right direction.
3rd bout -125: 1st round - Narvaez landed some nice straight rights on his opponent, but UKR boxer threw more combos than he did. 2nd round - Narvaez let himself be trapped on the ropes more and he didn't do as well as he had in the first. 3rd round - Narvaez stopped moving as much and it cost him the round. 4th round - Narvaez landed some punches with the UKR boxer on the ropes and UKR boxer suffered a small cut under his right eye. Again Narvaez didn't move as much this round and allowed himself to get trapped on the ropes a few times and get hit while on the ropes. The Ukraine boxer clearly won this bout, but if Narvaez throws more punches and stays off the ropes he could do much better.
4th bout - 132: This was another bout where the boxer from the Ukraine held and wrestled way too much. He kept putting Luis Ramos in headlocks and yet he wasn't warned. It was an ugly, sloppy bout due to the Ukraine boxers tactics. I was very happy that USA won this bout as Ramos deserved it, especially with a ref who would not take points away for the excessive holding, wrestling and headlocks by the Ukraine boxer. Ramos kept his compusure in spite of being fouled repeatedly.
5th bout - 141: Hector Ramos boxed a decent first round and I thought it was close after the 1st. The 2nd round saw Ramos using his jab more and landing quite a few clean jabs. He also blocked almost all of the hard power punches the UKR boxer was throwing. Ramos didn't use his jab as much in the 3rd, but still landed some jabs. He also started to land some uppercuts on the inside. UKR boxer was holding and wrestling a lot this round. I thought it was a close round, but UKR probably won the round. The 4th round was similar to the 3rd round and Ramos stayed on the inside where he didn't belong. He abandoned the jab and long straight punches that had worked in the 2nd round and it probably cost him the bout. If Ramos learns to use his reach and box on the outside more, he could do much better.
6th bout - 152: Finally a bout where the ref took points away from the UKR boxer for excessive holding. 1 point deduction in the 1st and another in the 3rd round, which ended up being the deciding factor. Trust me, I thought the point deductions were justified and there should have been some in other bouts too. Thurman did win, but he reached with his punches too much and then got hit with counters. Thurman also lost his balance a lot and fell down 3 or 4 times. He needed this experience and he will learn from it.
7th bout - 165: As I predicted Shawn Porter won. He is a friend and I told him after the bout that it was not his best performance and yet he still won. If Porter would have thrown more body punches and straight rights to the head, he could have dominated the guy, possibly even stopped him. Porter hurt the guy in the 4th round with some hard punches, especially the straight right. Porter learned from this bout and will be even better the next time. Porter is a beast, hits hard, can box when he needs to and he made the UKR boxer miss with a lot of punches. I'm looking forward to more international wins from Shawn in the future.
8th bout - 201: Carey lost the first two rounds by quite a bit. The 3rd and 4th rounds he boxed better, but probably still lost the rounds. The UKR boxer tired somewhat in the 3rd and 4th rounds. Poyatsyka didn't perform as well as he had in the European Championships against Romanchuk. Carey did seem to be in decent shape. The UKR boxer's hand speed did give Carey some problems as did the hard overhand rights that landed. Carey never looked like he was going to get stopped though and boxed tough throughout the bout. I give him credit for hanging in there and continuing to try hard even though he knew he was way behind.
9th bout - 201+: Luke Runion gave a valiant effort against a very strong, fast and skilled UKR boxer. Luke would have performed much better with 20# less weight, but it still would have been a tough bout for him. Luke never appeared hurt and tried hard. The bout was stopped on the RSCO rule right at the end of the 2nd round. BTW, this guy goes to college full time and boxes. It was a pleasure meeting him and I wish him success in the future.
To sum up the evening. The US team won 3 bouts as I predicted, but it was out of 9 not 11 total bouts so the winning percentage was a little higher. Two of the three that I predicted would win did in fact win. I thought the whole team performed very well and our boxers conditioning was on par with that of the Ukrainian team. A few more training camps and more international experience for ranked boxers and the USA could have a pretty good Olympic team that can win some medals. All the USA boxers showed class in how they handled themselves and that is very important. There were no poor sports on the US team and from what I have heard they were all a pleasure to be around and coach.
We won 3 bouts, thanks to Luis Ramos, Keith Thurman and Shawn Porter.
I understand that Luke Runion complained about my dissing David Carey. My only point is that Carey doesn't have the experience of most of our ranked boxers. I am, however, very proud of him as I think he's one of the few Alaska boxers to ever compete in international competiton. It's hard for athletes in Alaska to get good experience and to be able to pay their way out of their LBC and into the Lower 40 to compete. I think this Dual was a very good experience and will, hopefully, make him better. As a judge, I try to point out what I see, pro and con, regarding our boxers - I never attack them from a negative point of view. I also heard that the Ukraine referee sucked.
The referee who was in there for the 112, 132 & 165# bouts must have been the one from the Ukraine then. He favored the UKR boxers and would allow them to hold, wrestle, use headlocks, push, shove and a lot of other "fouls" and then would often WARN the USA boxer for some invisible foul.
Hector is not one to make excuses but he's had some serious back problems lately which is the reason he wasn't moving around much. He couldnt do any road work/sparring leading up to this bout. Any pressure or weight shift to his left (back) leg sends a sharp pain down his back. He got checked a few days before going out there and was advised to take some time off, which he didn't. He'll take some time off and visit the doc once again before he begins preparation for the Pan Am trials.
I haven't seen the bout Dennis but did he throw any power punches at all?? That's what he was having trouble with in training. He didn't have the strength to throw any hard punches without feeling pain.
Thanks for your report on the fight.
After the first round the score was 0-4 Ukraine.
5th bout - 141: Hector Ramos boxed a decent first round and I thought it was close after the 1st. The 2nd round saw Ramos using his jab more and landing quite a few clean jabs. He also blocked almost all of the hard power punches the UKR boxer was throwing. Ramos didn't use his jab as much in the 3rd, but still landed some jabs. He also started to land some uppercuts on the inside. UKR boxer was holding and wrestling a lot this round. I thought it was a close round, but UKR probably won the round. The 4th round was similar to the 3rd round and Ramos stayed on the inside where he didn't belong. He abandoned the jab and long straight punches that had worked in the 2nd round and it probably cost him the bout. If Ramos learns to use his reach and box on the outside more, he could do much better.
Thanks for the bird's eye report, Dennis. Wish I had been there. And thanks for the report on Hector's back problems, Art. He really needs to have that taken care of. I hear the box-offs for the Pan Ams will be in January (because there will be Continental qualifiers prior to June) so it doesn't give him much time to get fixed.
Thurman also lost his balance a lot and fell down 3 or 4 times.
That's strange! Have never known him to have a balance problem. However, if the Ukraine boxer was wrestling and holding, might have thrown him off some. It's unfortunate, but we need to get used to this type of manhandling and learn to work around it. I saw a lot of wrestling and grappling during the 2004 Olympics. It takes away the art and technique of Olympic-style boxing. No wonder the average spectators aren't interested.
Glad I met Luke Runion in Pittsburgh, too. He and Boyd Melson and William Rosinsky kept me up talking most of the night! A really nice bunch of young men who definitely represent the U.S. well. I'm glad I know them.
ARamos3 wrote:Hector is not one to make excuses but he's had some serious back problems lately which is the reason he wasn't moving around much. He couldnt do any road work/sparring leading up to this bout. Any pressure or weight shift to his left (back) leg sends a sharp pain down his back. He got checked a few days before going out there and was advised to take some time off, which he didn't. He'll take some time off and visit the doc once again before he begins preparation for the Pan Am trials.
I haven't seen the bout Dennis but did he throw any power punches at all?? That's what he was having trouble with in training. He didn't have the strength to throw any hard punches without feeling pain.
Thanks for your report on the fight.
I didn't see any HARD punches by Hector, but I just assumed that was his style. He landed a lot of nice jabs in the 2nd round and won the round by 3 points. If only he would have continued with that style, he would have won the bout. It probably felt more comfortable to stay on the inside, but it wasn't the place for him to be. If he normally has more power and stamina than he demonstrated, he could win some international bouts against top opposition. BTW, the only "power punches" he threw were not thrown with a lot of power. His few uppercuts on the inside were not thrown hard, but were thrown to score points. Whether he got credit for them, I don't know. I do know that he got credit for his clean, long jabs that were "OBVIOUS" scoring blows that the judges had to count. That is the reason he won the 2nd round. Good luck to Hector in healing and getting ready for the future.
I mentioned on another thread that Jeff Steffen was assuming a significant portion of Anthony Bartkowski's duties since Bartkowski left USA Boxing a few weeks ago. I was able to meet Jeff at the dual and he is a very nice guy. If he was responsible for even part of the success of this dual, then he is doing his job very well.
I also saw Julie Goldsticker again and I appreciate her reports on the shows and tournaments. She did a fine job getting the info out to the masses right away.
I talked to Dan Campbell at the hotel and as always, he seemed to have everything under control in spite of some travel headaches. Dan along with the assigned coaches did a fine job of preparing this squad as much as possible in just a few days. I would also like to mention that Ken Porter, who was not an assigned coach, helped out with preparing the whole team and not just his son Shawn. He is a very good coach and helps any way he can. I would also like to mention that Shawn took my critique of his bout very well. He listened to the constructive criticism and will use to get better. I have known Shawn for about 5 or 6 years (maybe longer) and know that he can perform a lot better. He won, but I want him and the other US boxers to continue to improve so that the US team can do very well in Beijing.
One final thought on the dual. The Harvey Boxing Club put on an excellent show. Their facilities are first class. The gym is very clean and well maintained. It is the envy of many other programs. Good job, Harvey Boxing Club!
I didn't see any HARD punches by Hector, but I just assumed that was his style. He landed a lot of nice jabs in the 2nd round and won the round by 3 points. If only he would have continued with that style, he would have won the bout. It probably felt more comfortable to stay on the inside, but it wasn't the place for him to be. If he normally has more power and stamina than he demonstrated, he could win some international bouts against top opposition. BTW, the only "power punches" he threw were not thrown with a lot of power. His few uppercuts on the inside were not thrown hard, but were thrown to score points. Whether he got credit for them, I don't know. I do know that he got credit for his clean, long jabs that were "OBVIOUS" scoring blows that the judges had to count. That is the reason he won the 2nd round. Good luck to Hector in healing and getting ready for the future.[/quote]
Scoring for this fight:
1st round. - USA down by 4 points (0-4)
2nd round - USA down by 1 point
3rd round - USA down by 5 points
FINAL - USA loses by 8
I just saw the bout and am a little dissapointed with the scoring. I'll be posting it up on the our website, ramosboxing.com
I was trying to think of when the USA was regarded as a dominate force in amateur boxing? The 3 big boys, Cuba, Russia & the USA.
While the USA seems to be holding on to the number one spot in the pro game, the eastern Europeans catch up.
The USA Amateurs seem to be getting worse, not better. Will this lead to a decline in the Pro game as well in the future and the chance of Olympic glory a distant memory.
The last 2 years they beat Canada once, lost to Canada 4 times, lost to England, Belarus, Hungary, Azerbaijan, Ireland, Italy, Mexico, a draw with South Korea & numerous others & now a loss to the Ukraine.
And thanks for the report on Hector's back problems, Art. He really needs to have that taken care of. I hear the box-offs for the Pan Ams will be in January (because there will be Continental qualifiers prior to June) so it doesn't give him much time to get fixed.
A really nice bunch of young men who definitely represent the U.S. well. I'm glad I know them.