Taylor Vs. Chavez

Nels · Post by **Nels** » 01 Dec 2006, 15:49

Did you see the original broadcast of the fight?

The one where you get the angle on the slo-mo replay of Meldrick's face & Steele's face; ever noted the expressions on them when Steele says "You alright? You alright?"

Just asking. Whether or not you agree with the call -- and lots of people don't, which is fine -- I have to say Steele should've got an Oscar if that expression was put on.

I say: tough break, & maybe even Steele did blow the call. But when the referee says "You alright?" twice after you get up from a heavy knockdown, a& your face has been pounded into an unrecognisable mess, & it's been a long hard fight...

You at least answer the motherfucker.

Also, I have not seen the HBO documentary to which you refer. However, if whoever HBO got to present it & narrate it were anything like as impartial, fair & not at all blinkered as Whatsisface & Sugar Ray were on the blow-by-blow, then I'm not sure I want to.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 01 Dec 2006, 15:57

I hate this moment in boxing....it's a damn shame in many ways...a very bad night for Taylor first and foremost. Followed by a bad night for Steele and really it wouldnt have hurt Chavez's legacy even if he would have lost.

It was just one of those historical moments. But after all is said and done I do not believe Steele did anything criminal...he just didn't get it exactly right. BIG DIFFERENCE. Boxing history is like fine leather...it has some deep flaws here and there. But this one was an honest flaw...IMHO.

vagabundo55 · Post by **vagabundo55** » 01 Dec 2006, 19:40

BoxBuzz wrote:I hate this moment in boxing....it's a damn shame in many ways...a very bad night for Taylor first and foremost. Followed by a bad night for Steele and really it wouldnt have hurt Chavez's legacy even if he would have lost.

It was just one of those historical moments. But after all is said and done I do not believe Steele did anything criminal...he just didn't get it exactly right. BIG DIFFERENCE. Boxing history is like fine leather...it has some deep flaws here and there. But this one was an honest flaw...IMHO.

Agree with this post. Steele might have made a mistake by not realizing how close the fight was to the end. But he was just trying to protect Taylor. If this had been a 15 round fight, I think most people wouldn't attack this stoppage. Taylor was a broken fighter when he got up. After the fight, there was no doubt the beating he received affected him. I forgot exactly what fractures he recieved, but I remember he went to the hospital, and was peeing blood. I also remember he had swallowed so much blood it affected his health in some form. Steele didn't realize how close the fight was to an end he just tried to protect the already battered Taylor from receiving more punishment. Unfortunately, the fight only had a few seconds left, however Taylor himself did not respond correctly to the referee when asked if he was alright. I don't think Steele was bought off, or any of that, I just think it was one of those moment where there was so much going on that both Steele and Taylor made mistakes. Steele by not realizing how much time was left, and Taylor by not responding. There is nothing anybody can do to change the outcome of the fight anymore, I see no reason to bash Steele, who was in my opinion just trying to protect Taylor from receiving more punishment.

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 02 Dec 2006, 03:36

Steele did what he was supposed to do - he protected the fighter after the fighter couldn't / wouldn't / didn't respond to his prompts

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 02 Dec 2006, 18:18

edeescam wrote:I think if someone actually dug around , they would find that steele was in kings pocket. There was already alot of speculation that steele favored kings fighters and that Duva actually requested another ref knowing that information.

David Icke holds sold-out lectures in many countries claiming that the world is secretly run by a race of shape-shifting alien lizards. Some people will believe anything.

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 02 Dec 2006, 18:40

vagabundo55 wrote:If this had been a 15 round fight, I think most people wouldn't attack this stoppage.

Of course not...the whole point is--if Steele lets the fight continue, there wouldn't have been enough time for Chavez to walk across the ring and throw another punch...that's the point...only a couple seconds left...he wasn't really 'protecting the fighter' with only a couple seconds left...TIME now protected the fighter...Steele made a mistake that changed the outcome...

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 02 Dec 2006, 21:16

Collins2000 wrote:
edeescam wrote:I think if someone actually dug around , they would find that steele was in kings pocket. There was already alot of speculation that steele favored kings fighters and that Duva actually requested another ref knowing that information.

David Icke holds sold-out lectures in many countries claiming that the world is secretly run by a race of shape-shifting alien lizards. Some people will believe anything.

Collins.....very very dissapointed in you.......I believe you know the consequences for revealing this information.

Hagler2002 · Post by **Hagler2002** » 02 Dec 2006, 21:37

Yet another thread on this fight and it wont be the last......in my eyes a good call.....even if it wasent stopped and Taylor got the win he would still never of been the same fighter again.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 02 Dec 2006, 21:45

Hagler2k6 wrote:Yet another thread on this fight and it wont be the last......in my eyes a good call.....even if it wasent stopped and Taylor got the win he would still never of been the same fighter again.

Undeniable fact...

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 03 Dec 2006, 01:33

I always get pissed when I watch the Legendary Nights of this fight. Steele was so bought and paid for by Don King it was ridiculous. Why is this guy still allowed to Referee?

Only a moron would think or say that. Taylor was out on his feet, and badly beaten.

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 03 Dec 2006, 12:09

BoxBuzz wrote:
Hagler2k6 wrote:Yet another thread on this fight and it wont be the last......in my eyes a good call.....even if it wasent stopped and Taylor got the win he would still never of been the same fighter again.
Undeniable fact...

...which is why the win shouldn't have been taken from him with a second or two left...there wasn't enough time left for Chavez to walk across the ring and hit him again...I can see how people might think Steele was protecting Chavez, not Taylor...I think Steele just screwed it up...the best officials in any sport...are the ones you don't notice...EVERYBODY noticed Steele in this one...

barry · Post by **barry** » 03 Dec 2006, 12:30

I didn't like that Steele stopped it with so little left, but I certainly don't think Steele was bought by Don King...he just made a bad call, but in truth he did exactly what a referee is supposed to do. He asked Taylor is he was alright...and then he asked him again and Taylor was in dreamland, or he was paying attention to Lou Duva, who had stepped up on the ring, and when a fighter does not respond to the referee it is his job to protect the fighter by stopping the fight.

No doubt it seemed to be a bad call, but in reality it was just as much Lou Duva's fault as it was anyone else. If Duva had kept his ass still on the arena floor instead of jumping on the apron then Taylor would likely have answered Steele, but Duva was over in Taylor's corner waving his arms and going nuts and Taylor, no doubt seriously hurt from the punch and from the vicious beating that he took was confused and instead of paying attention to the referee he paid attention to Duva and as a result...the fight was rightly stopped.

I was for Chavez big time, but I wish the fight had went to the bell, but as someone else stated...regardless of even if he won the fight Meldrick Taylor would never be the same again. Chavez put a brutal beating on Taylor...the kind of beating that just ruins fighters and it pretty much ruined Taylor. Steele made a bad decision in stopping it with only seconds left, but again, he did exactly what a referee is suppose to do!!!

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 03 Dec 2006, 15:17

Geeze, if I had a penny for everytime people said that this was a bad stoppage... all I'll say is listen to Meldrick talk today and tell me the fight was stopped too soon?!!.... the fact is that the fight was stopped too late, about 2 or 3 rounds too late and Meldrick took a beating that shortened his career and has probably impacted on his life ever since... he was never the same fighter or man after it and you only need to look at his career after the first Chavez fight to see that...

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 03 Dec 2006, 17:25

silkov wrote:Geeze, if I had a penny for everytime people said that this was a bad stoppage... all I'll say is listen to Meldrick talk today and tell me the fight was stopped too soon?!!.... the fact is that the fight was stopped too late, about 2 or 3 rounds too late and Meldrick took a beating that shortened his career and has probably impacted on his life ever since... he was never the same fighter or man after it and you only need to look at his career after the first Chavez fight to see that...

But it's not about that...it's about the last 2 seconds of a fight that Taylor was winning on points...the last couple seconds...not enough time for either fighter to do anything...the ref turned the fight, in the last couple seconds...where was the basic common sense? I would hate to be the referee who turns a fight with a second or 2 left...Why create a controversy? By the time Steele would have waved Chavez back in, time would've run out...

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 03 Dec 2006, 18:18

Sweet Scientist wrote:
silkov wrote:Geeze, if I had a penny for everytime people said that this was a bad stoppage... all I'll say is listen to Meldrick talk today and tell me the fight was stopped too soon?!!.... the fact is that the fight was stopped too late, about 2 or 3 rounds too late and Meldrick took a beating that shortened his career and has probably impacted on his life ever since... he was never the same fighter or man after it and you only need to look at his career after the first Chavez fight to see that...
But it's not about that...it's about the last 2 seconds of a fight that Taylor was winning on points...the last couple seconds...not enough time for either fighter to do anything...the ref turned the fight, in the last couple seconds...where was the basic common sense? I would hate to be the referee who turns a fight with a second or 2 left...Why create a controversy? By the time Steele would have waved Chavez back in, time would've run out...

Did Steele actually know how much time was left?

I thought they brought in that banging on the canvas to indicate the last 10 seconds of a round AFTER this bout?

el tigre del sur · Post by **el tigre del sur** » 03 Dec 2006, 20:02

Decagon wrote:There was a light on indicating there were less than 10 seconds left. [/legendary nights]

There was no "light on" for poor old Meldrick.

I agree with the stoppage. The amount of time left in the bout is irrelevant if the man can't answer a simple question of "you alright?"

The ending just adds another dimension to what was already a great fight.

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 03 Dec 2006, 21:00

You stop a fight to protect a fighter...with 2 seconds left, there's not enough time left to get hit again...it's the amount of time left that's the point here...he got up at the count of 5...what if he waits until the count of 8 or 9...he beats the count and the final bell rings...and then what?...Steele says it's a TKO anyway because you can't be saved by the bell? This will never seem fair to me...never...

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 04 Dec 2006, 03:23

Sweet Science says:

But it's not about that...it's about the last 2 seconds of a fight that Taylor was winning on points...

Such BS, you could say the same thing about Leonard/Hearns I. The ref stopped Taylor/Chavez when he thought it needed stopping.

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 04 Dec 2006, 03:49

Decagon wrote:
Sweet Scientist wrote:You stop a fight to protect a fighter...with 2 seconds left, there's not enough time left to get hit again...it's the amount of time left that's the point here...he got up at the count of 5...what if he waits until the count of 8 or 9...he beats the count and the final bell rings...and then what?...Steele says it's a TKO anyway because you can't be saved by the bell? This will never seem fair to me...never...
That's not entirely true. If Steele had let the fight continue at the count of eight, Chavez would've had nearly 10 seconds to bash Taylor.

WHAT?...if Taylor gets up 3 seconds later...there would be 3 seconds less left at the end of the fight, all other things being equal...so instead of 2 seconds left, there would be no seconds left...

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 04 Dec 2006, 03:51

ringsider wrote: Such BS

Yeah...it was Bull Shit, alright...

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 04 Dec 2006, 10:30

ringsider wrote:Sweet Science says:
But it's not about that...it's about the last 2 seconds of a fight that Taylor was winning on points...
Such BS, you could say the same thing about Leonard/Hearns I. The ref stopped Taylor/Chavez when he thought it needed stopping.

Indeed, Leonard vs Hearns1 is a far more controversial stoppage imo, yet people never talk about that?... just take a look at Meldricks face at the end of the Chavez fight... he'd swallowed about 2 pints of blood, and was in a bad way after the fight!... Steele was looking after Meldricks health and doing what Taylors cober should have done about 2 or 3 rounds earlier... if they had Meldrick would most likely be in much better shape today

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 04 Dec 2006, 12:02

Holy Jeepers!!!...silkov and I agree on something!!

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 04 Dec 2006, 14:25

Silkov, you wil be blue in the face trying to get your point across. These are not fight fans, all they want is blood, guts, pain and unnecessary hurt.

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 04 Dec 2006, 15:05

Sweet Scientist wrote:
vagabundo55 wrote:If this had been a 15 round fight, I think most people wouldn't attack this stoppage.
Of course not...the whole point is--if Steele lets the fight continue, there wouldn't have been enough time for Chavez to walk across the ring and throw another punch...that's the point...only a couple seconds left...he wasn't really 'protecting the fighter' with only a couple seconds left...TIME now protected the fighter...Steele made a mistake that changed the outcome...

Was Steel personally timing each round? I don't think so. Therefore he was not aware how much time was left. Neither was it his business to know how much time was left and neither was it his business to make a decision based on the amount of time left in the round

Aftermath · Post by **Aftermath** » 04 Dec 2006, 16:24

Of course Richard Steele made the right call. Taylor was out on his feet within the scheduled rounds of the fight. It happens. Chavez deservedly won in the Most Dramatic Finish of All Time.