ok Im Don King and i have a time machine that lets me go back in time and kidnap primed fighters and bring them to the present to fight in my newest pay per veiw series, i have selected 16 heavyweights out of a hat (reknowned champions, aka most popular) to fight eachother much like the middleweights did earlier in the year only we get and extra round here, yay us. now in case you forgot they are fighting in peak form
round one:
1-Holmes-Louis
1-Frazier-Marciano
2-Lewis-Ali
2-Knorton-Dempsey
3-Tyson-Shavers
3-Forman-Bowe
4-Spinks-Moore
4-Liston-Holyfield
alright there were alot of problems with my pulling names out at random order and some complte mismatches had to be fixed because i don king would never make a fight unfair such as a remake of spinks and tyson or frazier and forman
anyway, breifly describe who wins each round, then they move on and describe how they beat the person in the next round and so on
winner of the 1's fight eachother, same for the 2's and so on, always facing eachother from top to bottom
heavyweight tourney
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Ridiculous_Ray
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 64
- Joined: 28 Dec 2001, 20:00
1-holmes-louis
louis, larry had size and a better jab but i think louis was more able to get 15 rounds done, was capable of both boxing just as good as holmes but he could fight on the inside better, louis over the distance
1-frazier-marciano
i like fraziers siz and head movement over marciano's balls to the wall all out brawl tactics, frazier with a late round KO
2-lewis-ali
lewis larger stature and much longer reach, his ability to throw a meaningful jab when he is huhngy i think is too much for ali, ill get flak for it but lewis wins it, lewis over the distance
2-knorton-dempsey
knorton struggled against true heavy hitters and sluggers, i know dempsey wasnt the hardest hitting guy, but he could take it to ken i think, dempsey over the distance
3-tyson-shavers
oooh, i think tyson was faster and he had combonations on his side, shavers may have more power in one hand but tyson has power in both, i like tyson with a mid round KO
3-foreman-bowe
i defineatly think formans body attack could make the difference on bowe, i see this as a TKO by the 8th
4-spinks and moore
would this be a better fight at light heavy or at heavyweight? i think spinks makes the better heavyweight but moore as a lightheavy, so since this is a heavyweight tourney, spinks over the distance
4-liston-evander
evander could take whatever sonny had to offer and then box his ears off, holyfield over the distance
round 2
-louis-frazier
i think louis would be able to outbox frazier in this one and when joe wanted to bang i think louis could handle himself quite well, louis over the distance
-lewis-dempsey
lewis is just way way way too big and his jab is just too much for poor jack, lewis by kayo
-tyson-forman
well this sets up a default match in my books so instead of having another tyson holyfield fight, tyson pulls out of this fight with a torn rotator cuff, forman by no show (i think tysons hands would be too fast for forman though)
-spinks-holyfield
this is a fight i think would be good, because holyfield dosnt have heavyhands spinks would be able to do what he does best and box, i think it would be fun to watch but in the end evander would take it over the distance
round 3
-lewis-louis
shame we arnt going by ring accomplishments because lewis is just too big for some fighters to be handling, the brit wins this one soundly
-forman-holyfield
i like the primed george to win this one, if george could make a comeback 20 years after he was smacking guys around and give evander a descent fight, just imagine what he could do primed, forman over the distance
round 4
-LEWIS/FORMAN
ok lewis still has a good few inches and about 10-20 pounds on george but george has the punch and the skill to get those punches in to make george my favorite in this fight and the winner of the newest don king scheme to steal peoples money
your winner of the 16 man tourney, BIG, GEORGE FORMAN! rah rah rah
i wonder what you guys will come up with =)
louis, larry had size and a better jab but i think louis was more able to get 15 rounds done, was capable of both boxing just as good as holmes but he could fight on the inside better, louis over the distance
1-frazier-marciano
i like fraziers siz and head movement over marciano's balls to the wall all out brawl tactics, frazier with a late round KO
2-lewis-ali
lewis larger stature and much longer reach, his ability to throw a meaningful jab when he is huhngy i think is too much for ali, ill get flak for it but lewis wins it, lewis over the distance
2-knorton-dempsey
knorton struggled against true heavy hitters and sluggers, i know dempsey wasnt the hardest hitting guy, but he could take it to ken i think, dempsey over the distance
3-tyson-shavers
oooh, i think tyson was faster and he had combonations on his side, shavers may have more power in one hand but tyson has power in both, i like tyson with a mid round KO
3-foreman-bowe
i defineatly think formans body attack could make the difference on bowe, i see this as a TKO by the 8th
4-spinks and moore
would this be a better fight at light heavy or at heavyweight? i think spinks makes the better heavyweight but moore as a lightheavy, so since this is a heavyweight tourney, spinks over the distance
4-liston-evander
evander could take whatever sonny had to offer and then box his ears off, holyfield over the distance
round 2
-louis-frazier
i think louis would be able to outbox frazier in this one and when joe wanted to bang i think louis could handle himself quite well, louis over the distance
-lewis-dempsey
lewis is just way way way too big and his jab is just too much for poor jack, lewis by kayo
-tyson-forman
well this sets up a default match in my books so instead of having another tyson holyfield fight, tyson pulls out of this fight with a torn rotator cuff, forman by no show (i think tysons hands would be too fast for forman though)
-spinks-holyfield
this is a fight i think would be good, because holyfield dosnt have heavyhands spinks would be able to do what he does best and box, i think it would be fun to watch but in the end evander would take it over the distance
round 3
-lewis-louis
shame we arnt going by ring accomplishments because lewis is just too big for some fighters to be handling, the brit wins this one soundly
-forman-holyfield
i like the primed george to win this one, if george could make a comeback 20 years after he was smacking guys around and give evander a descent fight, just imagine what he could do primed, forman over the distance
round 4
-LEWIS/FORMAN
ok lewis still has a good few inches and about 10-20 pounds on george but george has the punch and the skill to get those punches in to make george my favorite in this fight and the winner of the newest don king scheme to steal peoples money
your winner of the 16 man tourney, BIG, GEORGE FORMAN! rah rah rah
i wonder what you guys will come up with =)
You were right about getting flack for chosing Lewis over Ali.... Here's a few reasons why...
Ali was the master of chosing the perfect style for a fight, and was in shape for every fight (in his prime, at least). ali was too fast for Lewis, too agile, he's not gonna just stand there for lewis to hit like Todays heavyweights do, and he's got a punch.
Ali could beat Lewis by sticking and moving, like he did vs Liston.
or... He could get it into a brawl type of fight, like vs Frazier. Ali is much smaller than Lewis, so I don't think he'd knock him out, but just picture it... Chris Byrd with 10 X the skills, and amouth, and there you have Ali. Byrd has a chance vs Lewis, and if Byrd has a chance... Just think what kind of Chance Ali would have.
Ali was the master of chosing the perfect style for a fight, and was in shape for every fight (in his prime, at least). ali was too fast for Lewis, too agile, he's not gonna just stand there for lewis to hit like Todays heavyweights do, and he's got a punch.
Ali could beat Lewis by sticking and moving, like he did vs Liston.
or... He could get it into a brawl type of fight, like vs Frazier. Ali is much smaller than Lewis, so I don't think he'd knock him out, but just picture it... Chris Byrd with 10 X the skills, and amouth, and there you have Ali. Byrd has a chance vs Lewis, and if Byrd has a chance... Just think what kind of Chance Ali would have.
I agree with most of your match-ups Ray. But Ali would have outboxed Lewis. Hey sure Lewis is a lot bigger, but in the rematch with Holyfield he was extended and fought only slightly better then a man he was much larger than...ANd Holyfield was at the end of his rope (he went 1-1-1 with Ruiz in his next fights)!
Holyfield would have beaten a 70's Goerge Foreman too. So what Foreman from the 90's gave him a good fight? Foreman from the 70's and Foreman from the 90's are like night and day! Foreman from the 70's was dropped 4 times, and two of them against light hitters due to exhaustion. Foreman of 90's had a granite chin. 70's Foreman blew himself out by round 6 if he did not wack you out and was a one dimensional fighter with very wide telegraphed haymakers. Foreman of 90's was a very well paced, well poised power punching technition who would jab your face off and possessed great ring smarts, ussually finished very strong down the stretch too! Just because 90's Foreman gave you a good fight does not mean the younger version then surely would have beaten you. They fought differently.
Holyfield had a great chin in his prime, and was not going to be caught if you were one-dimensional. Tyson was/is a one-dimensional fighter and Holy sat down divised a plan and stuck to it to perfection and took him out. Holyfield would have had a plan to take George deep into the fight by outboxing him (and flaunting his chin while taken some decent shots like he did against Tyson). Foreman may have lasted the distance like he did agaisnt Jimmy Young, or got tagged out like he did against ALi, but Holyfield would have had him. Holyfield was never one to be taken out early and easy like Foreman did to Frazier and Norton, he had too many tools.
Holyfield would have beaten a 70's Goerge Foreman too. So what Foreman from the 90's gave him a good fight? Foreman from the 70's and Foreman from the 90's are like night and day! Foreman from the 70's was dropped 4 times, and two of them against light hitters due to exhaustion. Foreman of 90's had a granite chin. 70's Foreman blew himself out by round 6 if he did not wack you out and was a one dimensional fighter with very wide telegraphed haymakers. Foreman of 90's was a very well paced, well poised power punching technition who would jab your face off and possessed great ring smarts, ussually finished very strong down the stretch too! Just because 90's Foreman gave you a good fight does not mean the younger version then surely would have beaten you. They fought differently.
Holyfield had a great chin in his prime, and was not going to be caught if you were one-dimensional. Tyson was/is a one-dimensional fighter and Holy sat down divised a plan and stuck to it to perfection and took him out. Holyfield would have had a plan to take George deep into the fight by outboxing him (and flaunting his chin while taken some decent shots like he did against Tyson). Foreman may have lasted the distance like he did agaisnt Jimmy Young, or got tagged out like he did against ALi, but Holyfield would have had him. Holyfield was never one to be taken out early and easy like Foreman did to Frazier and Norton, he had too many tools.
I guess the final match of my tournament would have been ALi vs. Holyfield seeing how I had Ali over Lewis and Holyfield over Foreman. In that one I would say Ali outboxes the real deal to a decison win. But a primed Holyfield could give any heavyweight from any era hell. It would be a great fight. Holyfield would rock ALi with some good shots and make it close, like ALi-Frazier close.
I dunno if it'd be close, because Holy is a combination puncher, and has to be set to throw them... Ali wouldn't let him get set, so I'd say UD for Ali... i think Prime ali vs Prime conn! would great... Think of the speed that would be in the ring! Sure, ali would win, but Conn is a great, and gave Louis the match of his life.
DL,
I'd like to hear WHY you think Lewis would beat these 60-70's era fighters:
Foreman
Ali
Frazier
Shavers
Holmes
Of the above fighters, I think Lewis could beat 0 of them. That's right. The current state of the Heavyweight division is just pitiful, it hasn't been any good since the late 80's early 90's, IMO.
I'd like to hear WHY you think Lewis would beat these 60-70's era fighters:
Foreman
Ali
Frazier
Shavers
Holmes
Of the above fighters, I think Lewis could beat 0 of them. That's right. The current state of the Heavyweight division is just pitiful, it hasn't been any good since the late 80's early 90's, IMO.
Justin, I think Lewis would beat Ali because Ali was 6-2 or 3, 207 in his prime. At that time he was both big and fast, now he wouldn't be particularly big or fast. In addition, he had no boxing skills that would help him against an equally or more physically talented opponent. Lewis would beat Foreman because Foreman was a 217 pound fighter who lacked stamina. Lewis would have more stamina and would probably be the only decent opponent Foreman had fought who was bigger than him. Shavers would lose because he only punched hard. He would have his "puncher's chance", but that is all. Shavers lost to Jerry Quarry, and Ron Lyle, he also lost to Bob Stallings, and Ron Stander, he was a hard hitter, but not a great fighter. Frazier would be tough up to 3-8-71, after that he was never the same. Even at his best, he had problems with big,mobile guys, and he never fought anyone nearly as big as Lewis and especially, not as big and mobile as Lewis. I doubt that Lewis would beat Larry Holmes at his best. Holmes was a master boxer with a great heart. Holmes is in my opinion one of the 3 best heavyweights of all time. He was vulnerable to the one punch knock down, but he had the heart to get up. I think of Holmes as more of a late 70s/early 80s fighter. This is just my opinion, I see Ali as mostly hype that doesn't stand up to the evidence. When I watch him on video, I just can not see him as a great fighter. I like all of the fighters you mentioned, and I don't like Lewis, but I have to admit that I would bet on Lewis if he fought any of the five, other than Holmes. I would be worried about betting on Holmes in that one. I am definitely not a Lewis fan, but he is 6-5, 245, with good skills, and stamina.
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Ridiculous_Ray
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 64
- Joined: 28 Dec 2001, 20:00
DL, maybe we are right, maybe we are wrong, all i can say is that in 10 years everyone will think the 90's was like the 80's which had a few descent guys, then in 20 years the 90's will be thought of liek the 70's...i guess it will just take time for people to realize that todays crop isnt sad, isnt pitiful, and is a respectable time to be a fan of boxing outside of what fighters sometimes do outside the ring which is none of our buisness.
Lewis has been KO'd twice, and during his prime years, by nobodies!!!
Shavers would have landed one of his haymakers on Lewis. And that's ALL he would have needed.
Lewis made too many mistakes for Holmes. Can you imagine Lenox trying to "box" his way around Holmes, like he did Tua? Or try to wing it aginst him? No way!
And to even think of putting Lewis in the same league as Ali?!? Foreman I would have walked right through his low defense and bulls-hit jab.
I mean, Christ, Lewis had life-and-death with Shannon Briggs and Ray Mercer for crying out loud! Those two would have been hard-pressed to make Joe Louis' Bum-of-the-Month Club!
As athletically gifted as Lewis is, his technicianship is still second rate. A la Hamed.
Shavers would have landed one of his haymakers on Lewis. And that's ALL he would have needed.
Lewis made too many mistakes for Holmes. Can you imagine Lenox trying to "box" his way around Holmes, like he did Tua? Or try to wing it aginst him? No way!
And to even think of putting Lewis in the same league as Ali?!? Foreman I would have walked right through his low defense and bulls-hit jab.
I mean, Christ, Lewis had life-and-death with Shannon Briggs and Ray Mercer for crying out loud! Those two would have been hard-pressed to make Joe Louis' Bum-of-the-Month Club!
As athletically gifted as Lewis is, his technicianship is still second rate. A la Hamed.
Ali had life and death with old, small Doug Jones, he was knocked down and almost out by old, small, Henry Cooper. Foreman would be facing a bigger, more skilled fighter in Lewis, why didn't Shavers land a knock out blow on Ron Stander, it was hard to miss him. The old days weren't better, they were just old. I do agree with you that Holmes would have beaten Lewis. By the way I don't consider Oliver McCall a nobody, he was/is a huge talent who often doesn't prepare for fights.
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Guest
- Heavyweight
Anonymous, you can just believe what you have heard from celebrities, and the 60s crowd and think Ali was an unbeatable super hero, or you can watch some video of your hero and see that he wasn't that great. I'm sure if you ask Hollywood people who the greatest fighter was, most will say Ali. If you ask people in boxing, I think you will be surprised because you won't hear Ali's name very often. Sure, a lot of people will say the popular thing if asked in front of an audience, but talk to some of them privately. Ali is a media creation.
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Ridiculous_Ray
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 64
- Joined: 28 Dec 2001, 20:00
im sorry you guys need to think outside the box, you guys got that ali is the best heavyweight ever crap hammered into your head too much. open you eyes man, youre like those morons who follow bin laden,
'oh bin laden says this and allah said that so it must be so regardless of what could possibly be the truth! why explore what could be when we can be blind and live a lie!'
please expalin to me how on earth ali would beat lewis, i want some details here not just 'he'd box circles around him' because thats a load of crap and you know it
you want to know how i think lewis beats ali? here you go
ali has never fought a legit guy in the area of 6' 5" (about lewis off the top of my head) and nobody near the weight of lewis with the same height at 240+ lbs you combine that with lewis' gangly yet strong arms and we got a fight plan! lewis's large size allows him to stay outside and pick ali off from the distance, ali was never gifted at working inside to hammer at guys, so whats he going to do? get in a jab contest with a guy who is stonger and has longer reach and is at least an A- if ali is an A+ if you dont give lewis that as due respect you smoke some serious crack and i refuse to aknowledge your coments. that being said ali could have been quicker...maybe, ill just go on and say for the hell of it he is. that means he either fights inside, works inside and pins lewis to a corner to bang, or gets inside of lewis jab to where he can jab...now the problems with those main strategies. ali isnt a power hitter, never was never will be, his knockouts, against most guys were crap, his TKO of frazier was when they were both on the way down in ranks, williams? a joke, moore past his prime same with patterson, liston took a dive both times, the first he more just quit and then others but lets get this already lengthy post overwith (im too lazy to pull up the ali file to see what other KO's were against second rate guys and past their prime guys). ok so now we move to the pinning/clinching idea, honestly who is gonna win in an in fight when you got 2 marquis guys going at it and one has a 30+ lbs weight advantgae? no contest, now he moves inside enough to jab and he dances (as both ali before and after his sentence) he finds while he is still fleet footed he isnt against small-same sized heavies who lack speed but against a big guy who can flcik, and stick a jab out there with the best of em, rivals both ali's jab and holmes' only with more power...so uh oh ali loses! please come up with a theory i missed, i know i missed lots of em, but 9 out of 10 logical possible explanations for this fight go to lewis you blind bats
lol, i was re-reading through one of the first responses and it said 'ali had power', sure so do byrd and otke but thats only to little kids
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ridiculous_Ray on 2002-01-06 13:37 ]</font>
'oh bin laden says this and allah said that so it must be so regardless of what could possibly be the truth! why explore what could be when we can be blind and live a lie!'
please expalin to me how on earth ali would beat lewis, i want some details here not just 'he'd box circles around him' because thats a load of crap and you know it
you want to know how i think lewis beats ali? here you go
ali has never fought a legit guy in the area of 6' 5" (about lewis off the top of my head) and nobody near the weight of lewis with the same height at 240+ lbs you combine that with lewis' gangly yet strong arms and we got a fight plan! lewis's large size allows him to stay outside and pick ali off from the distance, ali was never gifted at working inside to hammer at guys, so whats he going to do? get in a jab contest with a guy who is stonger and has longer reach and is at least an A- if ali is an A+ if you dont give lewis that as due respect you smoke some serious crack and i refuse to aknowledge your coments. that being said ali could have been quicker...maybe, ill just go on and say for the hell of it he is. that means he either fights inside, works inside and pins lewis to a corner to bang, or gets inside of lewis jab to where he can jab...now the problems with those main strategies. ali isnt a power hitter, never was never will be, his knockouts, against most guys were crap, his TKO of frazier was when they were both on the way down in ranks, williams? a joke, moore past his prime same with patterson, liston took a dive both times, the first he more just quit and then others but lets get this already lengthy post overwith (im too lazy to pull up the ali file to see what other KO's were against second rate guys and past their prime guys). ok so now we move to the pinning/clinching idea, honestly who is gonna win in an in fight when you got 2 marquis guys going at it and one has a 30+ lbs weight advantgae? no contest, now he moves inside enough to jab and he dances (as both ali before and after his sentence) he finds while he is still fleet footed he isnt against small-same sized heavies who lack speed but against a big guy who can flcik, and stick a jab out there with the best of em, rivals both ali's jab and holmes' only with more power...so uh oh ali loses! please come up with a theory i missed, i know i missed lots of em, but 9 out of 10 logical possible explanations for this fight go to lewis you blind bats
lol, i was re-reading through one of the first responses and it said 'ali had power', sure so do byrd and otke but thats only to little kids
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ridiculous_Ray on 2002-01-06 13:37 ]</font>
Here's some ways I think Ali would beat Lewis, because IMO, Ali's best trait was finding ways to beat the unbeatable. Here's how I think the fight would go...
Ali comes in weighing 210 or so, and Lewis comes in in good shape, and Lewis IS motivated...
Ali fights in spots, Ducking under LEwis' jab to get in, and throwing stiff jabs up at Lewis' head, and following with straight. Lewis is trying to use his longer reach and height (only 1 inch reach, about 3 inches height) to keep Ali at the end of his jab and hit him with his right when he gets the chance.
I think Ali wins the first 5 of 6 rounds, the first round being a draw, and Lewis begins to take control and wins the next 5 rounds (now even), and in the last round, Lewis lands some power shots, but Ali is landing a lot of shots. Ali wins the last round by pulling it out of the fire.
That's how I think Ali would win, fighting in spots, and lots of angles, TONS of angles. Personally, I'd love to see how it would really would be fought. Manny Steward and Angelo Dundee's fighters going Head to Head, great!
BTW, I'm no sucker for the media, I'm more anti-media. IMO, Joe Louis beats them both anyway!
Ali comes in weighing 210 or so, and Lewis comes in in good shape, and Lewis IS motivated...
Ali fights in spots, Ducking under LEwis' jab to get in, and throwing stiff jabs up at Lewis' head, and following with straight. Lewis is trying to use his longer reach and height (only 1 inch reach, about 3 inches height) to keep Ali at the end of his jab and hit him with his right when he gets the chance.
I think Ali wins the first 5 of 6 rounds, the first round being a draw, and Lewis begins to take control and wins the next 5 rounds (now even), and in the last round, Lewis lands some power shots, but Ali is landing a lot of shots. Ali wins the last round by pulling it out of the fire.
That's how I think Ali would win, fighting in spots, and lots of angles, TONS of angles. Personally, I'd love to see how it would really would be fought. Manny Steward and Angelo Dundee's fighters going Head to Head, great!
BTW, I'm no sucker for the media, I'm more anti-media. IMO, Joe Louis beats them both anyway!
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Ridiculous_Ray
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 64
- Joined: 28 Dec 2001, 20:00
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Guest
- Heavyweight
Now let's see
Louis-Holmes: This would be a fight between the best two jabs in history. Holmes' left was faster and more accurate while Louis had tremendous power behind his jab. It wouldn't be an easy fight for either, but I believe that Holmes' reach, movement and the best uppercut in the heavyweight history would be a bit too much for Louis. So Holmes outboxes The Brown Bomber and knocks him down with his solid right (remember, Louis' chin was always some kind of a suspect) in the early rounds. Louis' fights his heart out and has his moments, but the Easton Assasin has a very sound chin and a ton of heart to survive the hard moments. After ten rounds Louis is bone-tired and Holmes flattens him with an uppercut, going to the next round
1:Two short bangers, neither knows the meaning of words "quit" and "retread". I believe Smokin' Joe's faster hands would be the major difference between them, plus of course his weight advandage. Marciano sees himself outpunched in a furious inside brawl and he isn't able to score many clean blows because of the head movement of Frazier. Frazier is leading on points when the bout has to be stopped in the seventh round because of Marcianos badly swollen eye.
2: Lewis-Ali. A very interesting match-up. I can see this going either way. It could be that Lewis' huge advantage in size would simply be too much for The Greatest. Lennox would back him up and rock him in several occasions with his tremendous right in a way to a decision victory. Or, Ali's quickness could simply be too much for Lennox. Ali would jump in, score with a couple of lightening fast punches and then disappear before Lewis can counter, while on the outside he would be tiring the Brit with his splendid footwork. Personaly I would accept both outcomes, but because of sentimental reasons I go with the latter option. Ali goes into the quarterfinlas with a 15-round decision.
2:Norton-Dempsey. Again a hard one to pick. Dempsey had an astonishing firepower for a guy his size, plus he was very aggressive. Still, I'd have to go with Norton, he is far bigger, more techically skilled and also had good power, though his chin let him down a couple of times. I can see Norton taking care of Dempsey much in the manner he spanked another tough slugger, Jerry Quarry. Norton in nine.
3. Tyson-Shavers: Two aggressive battlers who could punch with frightening power. But whereas Shavers was a suberb puncher, Tyson was more elusive, much faster and he had much better defensive moves, plus his chin was much better. I can see this being an explosive match, but Tyson would end it without great difficulties in two.
3:Foreman-Bowe. Again a tremendous match. I think both of them could beat most of the guys in the tournament. But I think the Bowe who outfought Holyfield in their first fight would probably be too much even for the Mighty Foreman. He was twenty pounds heavier, faster, and most of all, his stamina was better. These two would exchange heavy punches and probably both would hurt each other, but after six rounds the fight would turn to Bowe. Finally Big Daddys right blasts the exhausted Foreman senseless in the ninth, moving Bowe onwards.
Spinks-Moore: two lightheavy kings would make a better match in their best weight class. In the heavyweight Spinks was, once again, bigger than his opponent and his quickness and reach would probably be too much for Archie. moore would have a punchers chance, but Spinks had a good chin, and it would carry him to a decision victory
4. Liston-Holyfield. Here we have two guys who like to slug it out. As much as I like Liston, I can't see him overcomeing Holyfield. They were about equally big, but Holyfield was way faster and his stamina would eventually decide the match. Liston would retire due an injured shoulder after ten rounds.
NEXT ROUND
Holmes-Frazier: This would be a nightmere fight for Holmes. He has maybe the best all-around skills of all champions, but Fraziers style wouldn't suit him at all. Holmes would have the edge in early rounds, but eventually Frazier's body punching would take it's toll, while his endless stamina would allow him to keep going for the whole fight. Holmes doesn't have the power to knock Frazier out. Joe takes a gruelling fifteen-round decision
Ali-Norton: Well, we have seen their serie. The difference is just that Ali was never in his prime when they fought, and he still captured the decision twice. This time, a prime Ali would take a more clear-cut decision than before, but Norton would certainly give him troubles for the whole fight.
Tyson-Bowe. I'm very dissapointed that this fight didn't take place when it should have. It's anybodys match, but I think Bowe's jab would stop the Iron Mike. I can see this being a more even Foreman-Frazier, but finally Foreman would overcome again. So it's Bowe going forwards.
Spinks-Holyfield. It's weird that there is such a mismatch this late of the turnee. Spinks at his best was a good heavy champ but Holyfield at his best was a great champ, and that is a big difference. Spinks isn't fast enough to outbox the Real Deal in the Holmes fashion, nor is he strong enough to hold Holyfield off. Evander in four.
SEMIFINALS
ALI-FRAZIER: Again, we have seen these two squaring it off. But, as in the Norton case, Ali never fought Frazier in his prime. If he had, I believe he would have beaten Joe by using the same tactic he did in their second fight, ecxept for puncing and scoring faster and more and clinching a little less . Close but unamious decision moves Ali to Finals
BOWE-HOLYFIELD: And once again! You have seen this match, I think they both were at the top of their games in their first fight. Bowe was just a little too much for Evander.
FINAL
ALI-BOWE: There is not much difference between this and Lewis-Ali. It's either Ali's speed or Bowe's size. Again a tossup, but because I gave it to Ali in the first round, now it's Bowes turn. Bowe bangs out a decision. SO:
THE WINNER BY UNAMIOUS DECISION AND NEW HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION OF ALL TIME: RRRRIIIDDICKK BIIIGGGG DADDDYYYY BOOOOOWWWEEE!!!!
Post Scriptum: The title went to Bowe's head and, most of all, to his stomach. He lost his title in his first defence to Leon Spinks...
Louis-Holmes: This would be a fight between the best two jabs in history. Holmes' left was faster and more accurate while Louis had tremendous power behind his jab. It wouldn't be an easy fight for either, but I believe that Holmes' reach, movement and the best uppercut in the heavyweight history would be a bit too much for Louis. So Holmes outboxes The Brown Bomber and knocks him down with his solid right (remember, Louis' chin was always some kind of a suspect) in the early rounds. Louis' fights his heart out and has his moments, but the Easton Assasin has a very sound chin and a ton of heart to survive the hard moments. After ten rounds Louis is bone-tired and Holmes flattens him with an uppercut, going to the next round
1:Two short bangers, neither knows the meaning of words "quit" and "retread". I believe Smokin' Joe's faster hands would be the major difference between them, plus of course his weight advandage. Marciano sees himself outpunched in a furious inside brawl and he isn't able to score many clean blows because of the head movement of Frazier. Frazier is leading on points when the bout has to be stopped in the seventh round because of Marcianos badly swollen eye.
2: Lewis-Ali. A very interesting match-up. I can see this going either way. It could be that Lewis' huge advantage in size would simply be too much for The Greatest. Lennox would back him up and rock him in several occasions with his tremendous right in a way to a decision victory. Or, Ali's quickness could simply be too much for Lennox. Ali would jump in, score with a couple of lightening fast punches and then disappear before Lewis can counter, while on the outside he would be tiring the Brit with his splendid footwork. Personaly I would accept both outcomes, but because of sentimental reasons I go with the latter option. Ali goes into the quarterfinlas with a 15-round decision.
2:Norton-Dempsey. Again a hard one to pick. Dempsey had an astonishing firepower for a guy his size, plus he was very aggressive. Still, I'd have to go with Norton, he is far bigger, more techically skilled and also had good power, though his chin let him down a couple of times. I can see Norton taking care of Dempsey much in the manner he spanked another tough slugger, Jerry Quarry. Norton in nine.
3. Tyson-Shavers: Two aggressive battlers who could punch with frightening power. But whereas Shavers was a suberb puncher, Tyson was more elusive, much faster and he had much better defensive moves, plus his chin was much better. I can see this being an explosive match, but Tyson would end it without great difficulties in two.
3:Foreman-Bowe. Again a tremendous match. I think both of them could beat most of the guys in the tournament. But I think the Bowe who outfought Holyfield in their first fight would probably be too much even for the Mighty Foreman. He was twenty pounds heavier, faster, and most of all, his stamina was better. These two would exchange heavy punches and probably both would hurt each other, but after six rounds the fight would turn to Bowe. Finally Big Daddys right blasts the exhausted Foreman senseless in the ninth, moving Bowe onwards.
Spinks-Moore: two lightheavy kings would make a better match in their best weight class. In the heavyweight Spinks was, once again, bigger than his opponent and his quickness and reach would probably be too much for Archie. moore would have a punchers chance, but Spinks had a good chin, and it would carry him to a decision victory
4. Liston-Holyfield. Here we have two guys who like to slug it out. As much as I like Liston, I can't see him overcomeing Holyfield. They were about equally big, but Holyfield was way faster and his stamina would eventually decide the match. Liston would retire due an injured shoulder after ten rounds.
NEXT ROUND
Holmes-Frazier: This would be a nightmere fight for Holmes. He has maybe the best all-around skills of all champions, but Fraziers style wouldn't suit him at all. Holmes would have the edge in early rounds, but eventually Frazier's body punching would take it's toll, while his endless stamina would allow him to keep going for the whole fight. Holmes doesn't have the power to knock Frazier out. Joe takes a gruelling fifteen-round decision
Ali-Norton: Well, we have seen their serie. The difference is just that Ali was never in his prime when they fought, and he still captured the decision twice. This time, a prime Ali would take a more clear-cut decision than before, but Norton would certainly give him troubles for the whole fight.
Tyson-Bowe. I'm very dissapointed that this fight didn't take place when it should have. It's anybodys match, but I think Bowe's jab would stop the Iron Mike. I can see this being a more even Foreman-Frazier, but finally Foreman would overcome again. So it's Bowe going forwards.
Spinks-Holyfield. It's weird that there is such a mismatch this late of the turnee. Spinks at his best was a good heavy champ but Holyfield at his best was a great champ, and that is a big difference. Spinks isn't fast enough to outbox the Real Deal in the Holmes fashion, nor is he strong enough to hold Holyfield off. Evander in four.
SEMIFINALS
ALI-FRAZIER: Again, we have seen these two squaring it off. But, as in the Norton case, Ali never fought Frazier in his prime. If he had, I believe he would have beaten Joe by using the same tactic he did in their second fight, ecxept for puncing and scoring faster and more and clinching a little less . Close but unamious decision moves Ali to Finals
BOWE-HOLYFIELD: And once again! You have seen this match, I think they both were at the top of their games in their first fight. Bowe was just a little too much for Evander.
FINAL
ALI-BOWE: There is not much difference between this and Lewis-Ali. It's either Ali's speed or Bowe's size. Again a tossup, but because I gave it to Ali in the first round, now it's Bowes turn. Bowe bangs out a decision. SO:
THE WINNER BY UNAMIOUS DECISION AND NEW HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION OF ALL TIME: RRRRIIIDDICKK BIIIGGGG DADDDYYYY BOOOOOWWWEEE!!!!
Post Scriptum: The title went to Bowe's head and, most of all, to his stomach. He lost his title in his first defence to Leon Spinks...
Lewis - Ali:
Everytime Lewis threw his bulls-hit jab and brought it back to his waist, Ali would have a lead right hand plastered on Lewis cheek.
And it would be followed by that straight left chuck to Lewis' exposed other side, where the other hand drops down when he jabs.
With all his talent, Lewis' missing fundamentals would have been a serious liability in a fight with someone as proficient and fast as Ali, no matter what the size difference.
And that goes for a Lewis fight with Bowe too.
Everytime Lewis threw his bulls-hit jab and brought it back to his waist, Ali would have a lead right hand plastered on Lewis cheek.
And it would be followed by that straight left chuck to Lewis' exposed other side, where the other hand drops down when he jabs.
With all his talent, Lewis' missing fundamentals would have been a serious liability in a fight with someone as proficient and fast as Ali, no matter what the size difference.
And that goes for a Lewis fight with Bowe too.
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Ridiculous_Ray
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 64
- Joined: 28 Dec 2001, 20:00
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A Gift Decision
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 10
- Joined: 29 Dec 2001, 20:00
I never understood why Bowe skittered Lewis (which he most certainly did). Ok, he got beat by LL in the olympics but I think he was much more complete pro in 1991-93 and if they had fought, I have little doubt that Bowe would have kayoed Lewis pretty easily. That time Lewis' balamce was poor, he forgot to defend himself often, and he over-extented his body after he threw a right hand. Since then Lewis has learned a lot, and today he could well beat a prime Bowe, but back then he would have been smashed.
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Guest
- Heavyweight
Anonymous, when was Ali the greatest ever? On the night he fought Cleveland Williams? Williams shouldn't have been allowed in the ring, he was way past his prime, and he never recovered what he lost when he was shot. Maybe you and I see things totally different, but everytime I see an Ali fight on video, I am less impressed by him. No boxing skills, no punch, a lot of holding, and biased judging. He lost a lot of fights that the judges gave him. On the other hand when I watch Larry Holmes, Joe Louis, and Mike Tyson in their primes I am more impressed each time.
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Guest
- Heavyweight
Fastest hands? Don't think so, Tyson was faster along with others. Fast on his feet? Only against older, smaller, fighters. I never saw any of that speed against guys like Norton, Young, etc. Great condition? Sometimes. He apparently had a good chin. Sorry again, I don't remember the great jab, it certainly wasn't anything like the Holmes, Louis, Liston jabs. Most of the "Ali is the greatest" crowd were people who don't follow boxing. The media, and actors, perpetuated the Ali hype. I've never heard a respected boxing trainer call Ali the greatest. I'd be surprised if anyone has. Sorry anonymous, your hero was a media creation. He wasn't a great fighter.