USA Roster for Ukraine Dual

ARamos3 · Post by **ARamos3** » 04 Dec 2006, 13:14

ABA Boxing wrote:I was trying to think of when the USA was regarded as a dominate force in amateur boxing? The 3 big boys, Cuba, Russia & the USA.
While the USA seems to be holding on to the number one spot in the pro game, the eastern Europeans catch up.
The USA Amateurs seem to be getting worse, not better. Will this lead to a decline in the Pro game as well in the future and the chance of Olympic glory a distant memory.

The last 2 years they beat Canada once, lost to Canada 4 times, lost to England, Belarus, Hungary, Azerbaijan, Ireland, Italy, Mexico, a draw with South Korea & numerous others & now a loss to the Ukraine.

The reason behind this is, money$$$$$$$money. Most amateur boxers don't give a damn if they win a gold medal or represent the USA at a major sporting event. All that is out the window once they see some green in front of them.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 04 Dec 2006, 13:54

Now, now, Art - you know that your statement isn't entirely true. Yes, we lose some, especially after the Olympic qualifying process, to the pros - but the money isn't there any more so I don't think it's a major factor. Many of or boxers still have the dream of going to the Olympics. You know that the sharks start swimming several years ahead of every Olympics and that a good percentage of our boxers do not turn pro. My honest belief is that we need to expose them to more international events and on a consistent basis. We'll see what next year brings. It will be iffy since the new Event staff person hasn't a clue. And also remember that it costs us much more to send our boxers overseas than it does to have the Eastern Europeans and UK box each other on an ongoing basis.

ARamos3 · Post by **ARamos3** » 04 Dec 2006, 15:08

I truly believe if any of these top boxers (20yrs+) get offered a nice size signing bonus they'll turn pro. Amateur boxing doesn't give them much. These guys still have to earn a living and train to box against the best amateur boxers in the world, it's tough. Boxing is a poor mans sport and money dictates their future. I think this is the reason you see alot of these JO Boxers/Under 19 doing so well. They're able to dedicate themselves 100% to the sport cause they're still living at home and can get by on the money USA Boxing gives them. 1000.00 bucks a month to a High School Freshman or Senior is good money. Compare that to someone who goes to college, has a 9 to 5 job, and has to support a wife and kids.

Plus in order to make any money (signing bonus) after the olympics is to win GOLD, not bronze or sliver, GOLD. Just look at what Tarver had to go through in order to make some good money. He was fighting for 100 bucks a round after he got a bronze! Same thing can be said about Cauthen and Floyd.

boxmel wrote:Now, now, Art - you know that your statement isn't entirely true. Yes, we lose some, especially after the Olympic qualifying process, to the pros - but the money isn't there any more so I don't think it's a major factor. Many of or boxers still have the dream of going to the Olympics. You know that the sharks start swimming several years ahead of every Olympics and that a good percentage of our boxers do not turn pro. My honest belief is that we need to expose them to more international events and on a consistent basis. We'll see what next year brings. It will be iffy since the new Event staff person hasn't a clue. And also remember that it costs us much more to send our boxers overseas than it does to have the Eastern Europeans and UK box each other on an ongoing basis.

inc969806 · Post by **inc969806** » 04 Dec 2006, 15:42

Dennis - How tall was the guy David Carey fought? Carey is like 6-4 or 6-5 I think.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 04 Dec 2006, 17:03

ARamos3 wrote:I truly believe if any of these top boxers (20yrs+) get offered a nice size signing bonus they'll turn pro. Amateur boxing doesn't give them much. These guys still have to earn a living and train to box against the best amateur boxers in the world, it's tough. Boxing is a poor mans sport and money dictates their future. I think this is the reason you see alot of these JO Boxers/Under 19 doing so well. They're able to dedicate themselves 100% to the sport cause they're still living at home and can get by on the money USA Boxing gives them. 1000.00 bucks a month to a High School Freshman or Senior is good money. Compare that to someone who goes to college, has a 9 to 5 job, and has to support a wife and kids.

Plus in order to make any money (signing bonus) after the olympics is to win GOLD, not bronze or sliver, GOLD. Just look at what Tarver had to go through in order to make some good money. He was fighting for 100 bucks a round after he got a bronze! Same thing can be said about Cauthen and Floyd.

I don't see most amateur boxers being offered NICE signing bonuses these days. Andre Dirrell wasn't offered much of one and he won a BRONZE medal at the Olympics. I think Floyd was paid a lot more than $100/round when he turned pro. He was receiving $2,000+/month in training money from USA Boxing/USOC while training for the Olympics. Some Bronze and Silver medalists end up making a lot more than Gold medalists. Think Holyfield, Mayweather, and Roy Jones, Jr. Compare them to Tyrell Biggs and David Reid. Now Muhammad Ali, Oscar DeLaHoya and Ray Leonard are gold medalists that made a lot of money. The Olympic credentials, and having won a medal in particular, open doors in the pros, but even Gold medals are no guarantee to financial riches.

You stated $1,000.00 per month is good money for a High School Freshman or Senior. As far as I'm aware, there aren't any high school freshmen getting a monthly training stipend. My understanding is the boxer needs to be an open-class elite boxer to receive the training stipend, which would mean they are 16.5 years of age or older (turning 17 before August 1st) and typically they are older. Luis Yanez was only 17 when he started receiving the money and probably a high school junior. He is one of the youngest boxers receving money.

Your position is correct though that it is hard to support a family on $1,000 per month. You are also correct that some U.S. boxers HAVE to turn pro to support a family rather than stay amateur. Other countries do financially support their elite boxers better than the United States. It would be great if USA Boxing/USOC had sufficient funds to give the top 4 boxers in each class several thousand per month to stay amateur and give lesser support of $500 to $1,000 per month to the next 6 boxers in each weight class to assist them in staying amateur. However, as we all know, funding is always a huge issue for amateur boxing. Further, there are many coaches, athletes and officials who believe the money would be better spent supporting the local gyms and reducting sanction fees, etc.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 04 Dec 2006, 17:09

inc969806 wrote:Dennis - How tall was the guy David Carey fought? Carey is like 6-4 or 6-5 I think.

Denis Poyatskya seemed kind of short when I stood next to him, but I'm 6'6". However, he only appeared to be about 3 inches shorter than Carey so he is maybe 6'2" as USA Boxing has Carey listed at 6'5". I saw Carey but didn't stand next to him. BTW I talked to Poyatskya and he was a very friendly nice guy. In the video with Romanchuk, Poyatskya looked way shorter, but I don't know how tall Romanchuk is.

I hope this helps.

ARamos3 · Post by **ARamos3** » 04 Dec 2006, 17:52

Dennis wrote:
ARamos3 wrote:I truly believe if any of these top boxers (20yrs+) get offered a nice size signing bonus they'll turn pro. Amateur boxing doesn't give them much. These guys still have to earn a living and train to box against the best amateur boxers in the world, it's tough. Boxing is a poor mans sport and money dictates their future. I think this is the reason you see alot of these JO Boxers/Under 19 doing so well. They're able to dedicate themselves 100% to the sport cause they're still living at home and can get by on the money USA Boxing gives them. 1000.00 bucks a month to a High School Freshman or Senior is good money. Compare that to someone who goes to college, has a 9 to 5 job, and has to support a wife and kids.

Plus in order to make any money (signing bonus) after the olympics is to win GOLD, not bronze or sliver, GOLD. Just look at what Tarver had to go through in order to make some good money. He was fighting for 100 bucks a round after he got a bronze! Same thing can be said about Cauthen and Floyd.
I don't see most amateur boxers being offered NICE signing bonuses these days. Andre Dirrell wasn't offered much of one and he won a BRONZE medal at the Olympics. I think Floyd was paid a lot more than $100/round when he turned pro. He was receiving $2,000+/month in training money from USA Boxing/USOC while training for the Olympics. Some Bronze and Silver medalists end up making a lot more than Golde medalists. Think Holyfield, Mayweather, and Roy Jones, Jr. Compare them to Tyrell Biggs and David Reid. Now Muhammad Ali, Oscar DeLaHoya and Ray Leonard are gold medalists that made a lot of money. The Olympic credentials, and having won a medal in particular, open doors in the pros, but even Gold medals are no guarantee to financial riches.

You stated $1,000.00 per month is good money for a High School Freshman or Senior. As far as I'm aware, there aren't any high school freshmen getting a monthly training stipend. My understanding is the boxer needs to be an open-class elite boxer to receive the training stipend, which would mean they are 16.5 years of age or older (turning 17 before August 1st) and typically they are older. Luis Yanez was only 17 when he started receiving the money and probably a high school junior. He is one of the youngest boxers receving money.

Your position is correct though that it is hard to support a family on $1,000 per month. You are also correct that some U.S. boxers HAVE to turn pro to support a family rather than stay amateur. Other countries do financially support their elite boxers better than the United States. It would be great if USA Boxing/USOC had sufficient funds to give the top 4 boxers in each class several thousand per month to stay amateur and give lesser support of $500 to $1,000 per month to the next 6 boxers in each weight class to assist them in staying amateur. However, as we all know, funding is always a huge issue for amateur boxing. Further, there are many coaches, athletes and officials who believe the money would be better spent supporting the local gyms and reducting sanction fees, etc.

When Floyd fought O'shields in SA,TX. he only made a few hundred bucks more than I did, and i was paid 1400. AND he had an olympic medal! Of course, In the long run he made millions and I......well, im here talking to you. LOL All I'm saying is that the reason other countries are whooping are ass in the Amateurs is cause some of our top boxers turn pro once they make it to the top (ranked#1 or win a major national/international tournament) We all know our TOP BOXERS would stick around a little longer if USOC was giving them 2500-3500 a month. A boxer can actually dedicate himself 100% if this was the case. Just look at the success Warren has had. He moved up in weight at the World Cup and actually gave the Cuban (2 time olympic gold medalist) a run for his money. He actually had a chance to win the bout AT A HIGHER WEIGHT CLASS! If more of our boxers would stick around, we'd be up there with the Cubans and Russians.

When was Floyd making 2000 training for the olympics? Before the olympics or once he made the team? If he was making 2000 a month in early 95 -early 96, i was ripped off then! LOL I made 1500 a month tops! But I know each international bout we won at a tournament we'd make a few extra hundred bucks in our check for that month. Back then it was called, "OPERATION GOLD".

Were you around back then Mel?

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 05 Dec 2006, 01:19

Yup - I was around. Since 1987

Funding from the USOC is a Catch-22 situation. The amount of money they give us depends on the medals we produce - sad but true. And we're just one of many NGBs they fund. And of course, any of our boxers who have sponsors, i.e., Lou Duva, etc., get money on top of Operation Gold (or whatever they are calling it these days).

Note to ABA - I did some quick stats tonight on wins and losses since 2000. In dual meets, we have won a total of 219 bouts and lost 302. In tournaments, we've won 100 gold medals, 100 silver and 26 bronze and lost 30 in tournament preliminaries. I don't think that's too shabby for a country who does't get hardly any experience across the pond.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 05 Dec 2006, 12:00

I don't have the exact dates of when Floyd was receiving the money and exactly how much he received. He probably had a sponsor or two also who contributed to that total stipend per month. Mel is correct that the amount of money boxers receive fluctuates and is dependent on a lot of factors, including whether the boxer has a rich benefactor or not.

I think we can all agree that more sponsorship, support and training stipends would help keep certain boxers in the amateurs for a longer period of time. We also know that most (if not all) LBC's and most boxing gyms could use additional financial assistance. The money just isn't there to fund everything.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 05 Dec 2006, 12:41

think we can all agree that more sponsorship, support and training stipends would help keep certain boxers in the amateurs for a longer period of time. We also know that most (if not all) LBC's and most boxing gyms could use additional financial assistance. The money just isn't there to fund everything.

Amen! And oh so true! I believe some of the above is possible as long as we don't run off A2P. Keep your fingers crossed - their support isn't carved in basic rock.

ARamos3 · Post by **ARamos3** » 05 Dec 2006, 15:01

boxmel wrote:
think we can all agree that more sponsorship, support and training stipends would help keep certain boxers in the amateurs for a longer period of time. We also know that most (if not all) LBC's and most boxing gyms could use additional financial assistance. The money just isn't there to fund everything.
Amen! And oh so true! I believe some of the above is possible as long as we don't run off A2P. Keep your fingers crossed - their support isn't carved in basic rock.

True, but as coaches and gym owners we can go out on our own and find local sponsors to help us. We can also host a few shows a year to raise funds for our team/gyms. I'd rather have A2P invest more money in our top boxers and help them stay active throughout the year without having to worry about about money to support their family.

ABA Boxing · Post by **ABA Boxing** » 05 Dec 2006, 15:19

boxmel wrote: Note to ABA - I did some quick stats tonight on wins and losses since 2000. In dual meets, we have won a total of 219 bouts and lost 302. In tournaments, we've won 100 gold medals, 100 silver and 26 bronze and lost 30 in tournament preliminaries. I don't think that's too shabby for a country who does't get hardly any experience across the pond.

I looked at Only 2005 2006, while i did not have the time you did, maybe the USA picture is ok in your eyes

inc969806 · Post by **inc969806** » 05 Dec 2006, 15:29

boxmel wrote:Update on USA-Ukraine dual. There will be no light heavey match (problems getting a U.S. boxer to participate; Oscar Venegas is not competing at 112. He was brought out to Harvey only to find out there was no Ukraine at 51 kg/112 Lbs. Since he had starved himself prior to coming in order to make weight, he ate up a storm after being sent home. Then he was called to come again and came in overweight. He got yo-yo'd due to, in my estimation, bad planing. So we are now down to 9 matches instead of 11. I will have the results tomorrow night.

It also appears that the US Championships will NOT be the qualifier for the U.S. Pan American team. Championships are being held in June and the Pan Am Games are in July but there will be Continental box-offs prior in between February and May. Possibility that there will be a Pan Am Box-off for the U.S. in Colorado Springs in January. Stay tuned.

boxmel - Do you have any more info on this Pan Am Box-off? Do you know the dates? How many days long it might be? How to qualify for the Box-off? When might USA Boxing announce this since its only a month away? Thanks in advance.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 05 Dec 2006, 15:52

ABA - I'll check your stats against mine when I have time. But taking a quick look, the USA-Mexico in San Francisco was NOT a dual. It was what we call an international club meet. The US boxers were invited to compete against a team from Mexico - the event was put together and sponsored by an amateur boxing coach in San Francisco.

I'm not saying that the US is in the same league as Cuba and Eastern Europe but I got the impression, maybe incorrectly, that you didn't think much of our boxers. I think they are doing the best they can with very little help from USA Boxing. When you consider that your part of the world can box each other at least once a month as opposed to our having to spend big bucks to leave our continent to come to Europe, getting international experience is not easy.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 05 Dec 2006, 16:03

boxmel - Do you have any more info on this Pan Am Box-off? Do you know the dates? How many days long it might be? How to qualify for the Box-off? When might USA Boxing announce this since its only a month away? Thanks in advance.

Unfortunately, all I know is what I reported. I'm guessing, based on past box-offs that it will be a two-day event involving the top 4 ranked in each weight class - much like the Challenge was done. Could be in January or February. I've checked the AIBA web site and they don't have the dates of the qualifiers posted yet. When we have our box-offs depends on the AIBA dates.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 05 Dec 2006, 17:55

boxmel wrote:
boxmel - Do you have any more info on this Pan Am Box-off? Do you know the dates? How many days long it might be? How to qualify for the Box-off? When might USA Boxing announce this since its only a month away? Thanks in advance.
Unfortunately, all I know is what I reported. I'm guessing, based on past box-offs that it will be a two-day event involving the top 4 ranked in each weight class - much like the Challenge was done. Could be in January or February. I've checked the AIBA web site and they don't have the dates of the qualifiers posted yet. When we have our box-offs depends on the AIBA dates.

I have heard rumors that it will be in January. What I heard is that it will be the top 4 boxers from the 2006 US Championships (Elite Team members) and that if one of them can't compete then they will select either the 2006 National PAL champion or another ranked boxer. These "behind the scene" decisions and modifications to the selection process are a big problem. USA Boxing needs to have the selection process posted for all to see and then follow it. There should also be information posted on how USA Boxing selects boxers for international competitions, how athletes are chosen for "elite status", how boxers are selected to receive training stipends and how much they will receive. I know that some of these issues are in flux due to the changes in the governance of USA Boxing and the problem with receiving funding from the USOC and A2P. However, as evidenced by this forum, nobody seems to know the truth about many of these topics. Further, by not having the information made public in advance, many perceive that favoritism is running rampant.

Elite boxers from what I understand are the top 4 from the US Championships and they receive a monthly stipend from USA Boxing of $750 for 1st, $500 for 2nd and $250 for 3rd and 4th. These amounts were being matched by A2P so you can double it to get the boxers total monthly stipend. Now these amounts are considerably less than what boxers have received in the past, but can be increased if the boxers have additional sponsors/benefactors.

Here is another question for the members of this forum. It has been rumored that A2P was attaching "strings" to their stipend, that the boxer would have to either repay the money or sign with A2P if the boxer turned professional. Now I have had one boxer who receives the A2P stipend tell me directly that he was never asked to sign anything stating anything of the sort. However, I have also heard that there may be something that he signed to accept the money that obliged him to sign with A2P or repay the money without him even knowing it. Does anyone have any first hand knowledge?

boxfan08 · Post by **boxfan08** » 05 Dec 2006, 19:02

I am hearing that the box offs will be in mid-January. The people who govern the Pan Ams have decided that the boxers will have to qualify by name not by weight class and the first qualifier is the first week in February so they have to change the way boxers qualify.

I was told that they are working on changing the selection procedures but the decision just came down from the international people. Once the changes are made, they will be made public.

The selection for international competition has not changed, its always been top four but by the end of the year so many people have moved weights and stuff, some small changes have to be made.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 05 Dec 2006, 20:31

What I heard is that it will be the top 4 boxers from the 2006 US Championships (Elite Team members) and that if one of them can't compete then they will select either the 2006 National PAL champion or another ranked boxer.

The selection is always made from the top 4 in the current rankings. If they have to go to 5 or 6, they will. The U.S. Championships have always started the ranking process, with additional points given for participation in the PAL and the Golden Gloves and any international events. For instance, the National PAL champ may not rank very high.

There should also be information posted on how USA Boxing selects boxers for international competitions,

Normally from the ranked boxers in each weight class, starting with #1 and going down the list.

how athletes are chosen for "elite status", how boxers are selected to receive training stipends

Athletes put themselves in elite status by their ranking - they are not arbitrarily picked - and the top 4 receive stipends.

and the problem with receiving funding from the USOC and A2P.

USOC has traditionally paid the stipend to the top four. As far as I know, A2P is not subsidizing any boxer.

Further, by not having the information made public in advance, many perceive that favoritism is running rampant.

I find that rather strange since who is elite and who receives a stipend has been generally known for many years. I think part of that problem is that coaches "assume" and believe anything negative rather than actually finding out the truth.

These amounts were being matched by A2P so you can double it to get the boxers total monthly stipend.

I was not aware of this and will do some research.

Now these amounts are considerably less than what boxers have received in the past, but can be increased if the boxers have additional sponsors/benefactors.

Athletes can get any amount of money through sponsorship as long as it is put into a trust fund that is held by USA Boxing.

It has been rumored that A2P was attaching "strings" to their stipend, that the boxer would have to either repay the money or sign with A2P if the boxer turned professional.

If a boxer choses to "sign" with A2P, i.e., actually accept a monthly stipend, he must repay the money if he doesn't sign with A2P when he turns pro. As far as I know, A2P does NOT have any boxers under those circumstances.

ARamos3 · Post by **ARamos3** » 06 Dec 2006, 00:12

My brother leaves to camp (OTC) on Jan. 15.

ARamos3 · Post by **ARamos3** » 06 Dec 2006, 00:23

Here is another question for the members of this forum. It has been rumored that A2P was attaching "strings" to their stipend, that the boxer would have to either repay the money or sign with A2P if the boxer turned professional. Now I have had one boxer who receives the A2P stipend tell me directly that he was never asked to sign anything stating anything of the sort. However, I have also heard that there may be something that he signed to accept the money that obliged him to sign with A2P or repay the money without him even knowing it. Does anyone have any first hand knowledge?[/quote]

I actually have this agreement and I'll take a closer look at it. I was sent by my LBC to Chicago a few months ago to vote and my LBC president gave me this 30 page contract. And you might be correct, I do believe there's something in there about having to pay some money back to A2P if you turn pro before the Olympics. I'll take a look at it and let you know.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 06 Dec 2006, 00:55

Art - what is the camp for - the Pan Am Box-offs?

Again. the A2P money only has to be paid back IF a boxer is receiving a monthly stipend directly from A2P and has agreed to take this money as support. This is not the same as the monies won by the champions at the recent Blue & Gold. That was a one time incentive to bring the top boxers to the tournament.

inc969806 · Post by **inc969806** » 06 Dec 2006, 07:49

Alot of the stuff brought up on the last couple of pages confuses me. I didn't know boxers could win money from amateur boxing, like someone said from the Blue and Gold Tournament. I thought that would make them a professional boxer.
I didn't know boxers got monthly payments if they did well in the USA Championships. How long do they receive this money for? Six months? Twelve??
And why does USA Boxing keep revising the way they are going to select boxers for the Olympics and Pan-Am Games?
The info on this website is different from that on USA Boxing's website. Where on their website or rulebook or anywhere else does it talk about winning money from tournaments and monthly stipends? That is not widely known info or at least not that I'm aware of.
And what is A2P anyway?

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 06 Dec 2006, 10:12

inc969806 wrote:Alot of the stuff brought up on the last couple of pages confuses me. I didn't know boxers could win money from amateur boxing, like someone said from the Blue and Gold Tournament. I thought that would make them a professional boxer.
I didn't know boxers got monthly payments if they did well in the USA Championships. How long do they receive this money for? Six months? Twelve??
And why does USA Boxing keep revising the way they are going to select boxers for the Olympics and Pan-Am Games?
The info on this website is different from that on USA Boxing's website. Where on their website or rulebook or anywhere else does it talk about winning money from tournaments and monthly stipends? That is not widely known info or at least not that I'm aware of.
And what is A2P anyway?

Thank you. You just proved my point. Many coaches, boxers and fans do not know about the selection process, elite boxers, monthly stipends and "cash awards" for winning certain tournaments, usually international ones, such as the World Championships. Most of this info is not publicly disseminated.

Mel, did you know that the way the ranking points are awarded was changed this year without any public notice of the change? The number of points awarded for winning the national competitions used to be equal for the US Championships, National GG and the National PAL. This year the US Championships competitors are awarded more points than the other tournaments.

As far as the international selection process goes, the process you described has not always been followed. For instance Alan Lawrence was going to box in the US v Ukraine dual. He is currently ranked behind 9 other boxers. Did all 9 of those guys turn down the offer to box in the dual? I also know that last year Bear Richardson was selected for some international competitions ahead of my son who had just defeated Bear in their one and only bout against each other. My son was not offered the chance to compete in the international competition(s). Last year, Eric Fields was selected for some international competitions even though he wasn't ranked that high. He had just won the National Golden Gloves and was seen by some as perhaps having the best chance at developing into an Olympic hopeful so he was given the chance at international competition. There have been selections for international competition in the past that have had the appearance of favoritism. If USA Boxing would make more of this information public by putting it into the rulebook or posting it on their website, it would be an improvement.

I do know that some of the problems with changes to the selection process has been due to changes handed down by AIBA or International tournament hosts.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 06 Dec 2006, 11:11

Alot of the stuff brought up on the last couple of pages confuses me. I didn't know boxers could win money from amateur boxing, like someone said from the Blue and Gold Tournament. I thought that would make them a professional boxer.

If you read the rule book, you will see there is a section on Athlete's Boxing Fund on page 97. Refer to Part VI "Appendix" for details (page 238).

I didn't know boxers got monthly payments if they did well in the USA Championships. How long do they receive this money for? Six months? Twelve??

The top 4 rated from the U.S. Championships get stipends as determined by the USOC. The money is received for a 12 month period as long as the athlete stays in the top 4.

And why does USA Boxing keep revising the way they are going to select boxers for the Olympics and Pan-Am Games?

First of all, this is the first year they are going to try and determine the team a year in advance. I frankly think that's stupid. Secondly, I don't believe anyone at the office realized there were going to be Americas box-offs for the Pan Ams and got blindsided. It happens. We don't always get timely info from AIBA.

The info on this website is different from that on USA Boxing's website.

In what respect?

Where on their website or rulebook or anywhere else does it talk about winning money from tournaments and monthly stipends?

See my comment above.

And what is A2P anyway?

A company put together by Michael King of TV fame (Merve Griffith show, Oprah) because he loves amateur boxing and wants to have a part in saving the sport in the U.S. He's lost more money then gained since he became involved. Their web site is http://www.a2pusa.com if you want to read about them.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 06 Dec 2006, 13:16

boxmel wrote: If you read the rule book, you will see there is a section on Athlete's Boxing Fund on page 97. Refer to Part VI "Appendix" for details (page 238).

The top 4 rated from the U.S. Championships get stipends as determined by the USOC. The money is received for a 12 month period as long as the athlete stays in the top 4.

First of all, this is the first year they are going to try and determine the team a year in advance. I frankly think that's stupid. Secondly, I don't believe anyone at the office realized there were going to be Americas box-offs for the Pan Ams and got blindsided. It happens. We don't always get timely info from AIBA.

Where on their website or rulebook or anywhere else does it talk about winning money from tournaments and monthly stipends?
See my comment above.

I don't see any information about the monthly stipend in the rulebook. You also indicate that the boxers have to stay in the top 4. I don't think that is correct even though it is much easier to do now that the point system is as follows:
U.S. Championships: 1st – 150 pts., 2nd – 120 pts., 3rd & 4th – 100 pts., 5th – 8th – 75 pts.

International competition: 30 pts for entering and 30 pts for each victory on top of initial 30 pts for entering the competition

Other National Tournaments, Nat’l GG & Nat’l PAL: 100 pts – 1st, 75 pts – 2nd, 50 pts – 3rd & 4th, 25 pts – 5th – 8th

This point system is not publicly disseminated. I had to request the information directly from USA Boxing.

You indicated that you believe determining the team a year in advance is stupid. I tend to agree with you. I believe the reason USA Boxing is doing it is to focus their efforts on getting those boxers more international experience. I think that more boxers (not just the ones selected a year in advance) should get international experience and then at the last possible moment, the best boxers at that time can be selected through the trials/box-offs process.

The problem is the Americas qualifiers (they start a year in advance of the Olympics) which qualify a particular athlete and not a country. That is really stupid. Under this system, Joe Frazier would not have been able to go win a gold medal after the injury to Buster Mathis.
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