Super Lacy

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 05 Dec 2006, 15:46

livingstone cole wrote:Well I'm sure that when (if) he comes back he can still be a threat in the division, but it's got to be quite disheartening - his recent form. Not only have we got to worry about how the beating Joe gave him affected him, but how much the injury and the time off did, not to mention the disappointment at his last bout.

What disappointment are we talking about? The guy fought 80% of the fight with a hurt shoulder, and at least should've gotten a draw. I wouldn't be surprised to see him fight Tsypko again in 2008 just to prove something. Not that he's better than Vitali, but that the injury was the reason behind the shoddy performance.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 05 Dec 2006, 15:58

livingstone cole wrote:I didn't see the fight, just went on what people were saying about it. It sounded as if he wasn't very good all the way through the fight, it wasn't as if he was performing well and was then obviously injured resulting in a closer fight than needs be.

No I have it on tape here, first 2 rounds looked like Lacy was going to steamroll him. Landing big right hands and using that left uppercut when he got inside, he was also popping the jab too instead of pawing. I'm not exactly sure which round the injury occured but I'd guess the 3rd.

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 05 Dec 2006, 16:00

lvlarc_uk wrote:
livingstone cole wrote:I didn't see the fight, just went on what people were saying about it. It sounded as if he wasn't very good all the way through the fight, it wasn't as if he was performing well and was then obviously injured resulting in a closer fight than needs be.
No I have it on tape here, first 2 rounds looked like Lacy was going to steamroll him. Landing big right hands and using that left uppercut when he got inside, he was also popping the jab too instead of pawing. I'm not exactly sure which round the injury occured but I'd guess the 3rd.

Birmingham said something like late in the 2nd. But the was a steady decrease in activity from round 3 to round 7 and from half way through the 7th to the 10th, Lacy pretty much was there to get a decision.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 05 Dec 2006, 16:04

Mattyp151 wrote:
lvlarc_uk wrote:
livingstone cole wrote:I didn't see the fight, just went on what people were saying about it. It sounded as if he wasn't very good all the way through the fight, it wasn't as if he was performing well and was then obviously injured resulting in a closer fight than needs be.
No I have it on tape here, first 2 rounds looked like Lacy was going to steamroll him. Landing big right hands and using that left uppercut when he got inside, he was also popping the jab too instead of pawing. I'm not exactly sure which round the injury occured but I'd guess the 3rd.
Birmingham said something like late in the 2nd. But the was a steady decrease in activity from round 3 to round 7 and from half way through the 7th to the 10th, Lacy pretty much was there to get a decision.

Vitali showed a good chin, but I think had Lacy continued with a good left then Tsypko would have been stopped in the 5th or 6th. I'm going to watch the first 3 rounds again now closely, see if I can spot his shoulder go.

Achybreaky · Post by **Achybreaky** » 06 Dec 2006, 07:39

Shoulder injury or not its doesnt excuse the fact that lacy got handed a decision in his home town, respect for finishing the fight but after the first three rounds he was being outboxed every round. Suppose its a karma thing for tsypko after his decision over brian magee.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 06 Dec 2006, 07:51

Wern't people complaining about Lacy before Calzaghe about things like bad referees and early stoppages?

Achybreaky · Post by **Achybreaky** » 06 Dec 2006, 08:32

Its probably 'just different'.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 06 Dec 2006, 10:42

achybreaky wrote:Shoulder injury or not its doesnt excuse the fact that lacy got handed a decision in his home town, respect for finishing the fight but after the first three rounds he was being outboxed every round. Suppose its a karma thing for tsypko after his decision over brian magee.

It's not an excuse for a hometown decision but it's a valid explanation for a sub-par performance.

OK, let's discount this one and see how Lacy does when he comes back. This weekend he fought barely like a top 20 super-middleweight. I have (and always had) him somewhere between 6 and 10, so I presume he can do better when healthy.

Achybreaky · Post by **Achybreaky** » 06 Dec 2006, 10:56

pundit wrote:
achybreaky wrote:Shoulder injury or not its doesnt excuse the fact that lacy got handed a decision in his home town, respect for finishing the fight but after the first three rounds he was being outboxed every round. Suppose its a karma thing for tsypko after his decision over brian magee.
It's not an excuse for a hometown decision but it's a valid explanation for a sub-par performance.

OK, let's discount this one and see how Lacy does when he comes back. This weekend he fought barely like a top 20 super-middleweight. I have (and always had) him somewhere between 6 and 10, so I presume he can do better when healthy.

Im not disputing the fact that lacy was injured and this would explain his performance but the decision itself seems to be less of an issue than it should be and people have been claiming for a while now that english refs and judges etc are biased towards their own fighters but when it happens in the states its forgotten about very quickly.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 06 Dec 2006, 11:05

achybreaky wrote:
pundit wrote:
achybreaky wrote:Shoulder injury or not its doesnt excuse the fact that lacy got handed a decision in his home town, respect for finishing the fight but after the first three rounds he was being outboxed every round. Suppose its a karma thing for tsypko after his decision over brian magee.
It's not an excuse for a hometown decision but it's a valid explanation for a sub-par performance.

OK, let's discount this one and see how Lacy does when he comes back. This weekend he fought barely like a top 20 super-middleweight. I have (and always had) him somewhere between 6 and 10, so I presume he can do better when healthy.
Im not disputing the fact that lacy was injured and this would explain his performance but the decision itself seems to be less of an issue than it should be and people have been claiming for a while now that english refs and judges etc are biased towards their own fighters but when it happens in the states its forgotten about very quickly.

Bad decisions and poor refereering happens everywhere, anytime. People here often hammer the refereeing in Germany, for example, but Michalczevski, Maske, Beyer, Schulz all lost close and disputed fights on points in Germany.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 06 Dec 2006, 11:17

Lacy has benefited from some shocking officiating in his hometown. I'm glad his big bully boy routine has collapsed and look forward to plenty more defeats, whether offical or not.

Achybreaky · Post by **Achybreaky** » 06 Dec 2006, 12:18

pundit wrote:
achybreaky wrote:
pundit wrote: It's not an excuse for a hometown decision but it's a valid explanation for a sub-par performance.

OK, let's discount this one and see how Lacy does when he comes back. This weekend he fought barely like a top 20 super-middleweight. I have (and always had) him somewhere between 6 and 10, so I presume he can do better when healthy.
Im not disputing the fact that lacy was injured and this would explain his performance but the decision itself seems to be less of an issue than it should be and people have been claiming for a while now that english refs and judges etc are biased towards their own fighters but when it happens in the states its forgotten about very quickly.
Bad decisions and poor refereering happens everywhere, anytime. People here often hammer the refereeing in Germany, for example, but Michalczevski, Maske, Beyer, Schulz all lost close and disputed fights on points in Germany.

We are not talking about the german refereeing we are talking about the U.S (mecca of boxing) and the fact that this decision is not being talked about because if it had happened anywhere in europe it would be put down to typical hometown bias. It just seems that it gets swept under teh carpet quicker if it happens in the u.s.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 06 Dec 2006, 12:40

achybreaky wrote:
pundit wrote:
achybreaky wrote: Im not disputing the fact that lacy was injured and this would explain his performance but the decision itself seems to be less of an issue than it should be and people have been claiming for a while now that english refs and judges etc are biased towards their own fighters but when it happens in the states its forgotten about very quickly.
Bad decisions and poor refereering happens everywhere, anytime. People here often hammer the refereeing in Germany, for example, but Michalczevski, Maske, Beyer, Schulz all lost close and disputed fights on points in Germany.
We are not talking about the german refereeing we are talking about the U.S (mecca of boxing) and the fact that this decision is not being talked about because if it had happened anywhere in europe it would be put down to typical hometown bias. It just seems that it gets swept under teh carpet quicker if it happens in the u.s.

Well maybe because it wasn't a terribly important fight.

Achybreaky · Post by **Achybreaky** » 06 Dec 2006, 12:52

pundit wrote:
achybreaky wrote:
pundit wrote: Bad decisions and poor refereering happens everywhere, anytime. People here often hammer the refereeing in Germany, for example, but Michalczevski, Maske, Beyer, Schulz all lost close and disputed fights on points in Germany.
We are not talking about the german refereeing we are talking about the U.S (mecca of boxing) and the fact that this decision is not being talked about because if it had happened anywhere in europe it would be put down to typical hometown bias. It just seems that it gets swept under teh carpet quicker if it happens in the u.s.
Well maybe because it wasn't a terribly important fight.

It must have been important enough for the powers that be to keep lacy's record in tact for future fights but then thats another issue. Fact is lacy got handed a decision which does happen everywhere bu the attitude seems to be thats its ok as it wasnt an important fight thus displaying an incredible double standard in my opinion.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 06 Dec 2006, 13:07

He hardly had it handed to him talk about going OTT, it was a close fight. Maybe a draw was the right result.

Achybreaky · Post by **Achybreaky** » 06 Dec 2006, 14:43

whos going ott he got outboxed for much of the fight thats all im saying he in my opinion didnt deserve the decision but there isnt anything being made out of it.

eeler1 · Post by **eeler1** » 06 Dec 2006, 14:51

I missed the live version, ended up watching only the last six rounds or so on HBO latino, in Spanish (which I don't understand very well). What I saw was a pretty close fight, although I didn't score it. The decision wasn't that bad, from what I could see. And if its that close, it usually goes to the hometown guy. Not a bad enough decision to complain much.

Achybreaky · Post by **Achybreaky** » 07 Dec 2006, 07:48

Its very objective i suppose in my opinion he started well then after the second half of the third round he was getting clipped regularly while having limited success for obvious reasons. Funny thing in the commentary when the sky lads mentioned that all three judges were from philidelphia.

anyway whats the point of going on about lacy cos his badwagon has been sent into the shop for the time being.

Deram · Post by **Deram** » 10 Dec 2006, 01:06

Axe wrote:
Deram wrote:
stujones wrote: I think I will agree to disagree with that. Tatseosvyan looked pretty slick boxer in giving Howard Eastman alot of trouble (some thought he beat Howard). I also thought he looked like he would beat Markussen (who seems to be disinterested with the sport) more times than he would lose, judging by his performance over him. He's also beaten the current EBU champion.

What I meant was, he is a back foot counter puncher with a style that Bute hasn't met before. He is not a plodder in the Thysse and Mock mold, he loves it when a fighter comes to him.

Mundine can also show good back foot skills when he wants too, so it will be an interesting comparison if Mundine and Bute ever get it on. My feeling is that Bute will pass this test, and also beat Mundine. Style wise, Tatseovyan can be awkard (ask Howard Eastman), its styles that make fights and I think Bute could have more difficulties here than against some of the more established top tenners, like Mundine and Lacy.
Markussen was ahead on the scorecards and would have beaten Tsesyvan 8 out of 10 - IF he was in his normal mental state. In the state he was in that night he probably loses to 90 out of the top 100 SMW. He quit eventhough he wasn't even badly hurt. He said to his trainer in the ring "I don't want to be in here". He was basically a broken fighter before he entered the ring due to some personal problems - Palle knew that but still forced him to fight. So Markussen repaid him - although Markussen was the one that lost the most doing this demonstration.

Oh, and you cannot compare Tatseovyan with Mundine at all. Mundine is the fastest SMW and Tatseovysan is below average in speed. Tatseovysan has a good punch and is a rather tough fighter, but should in no way be compared to Mundine.

Anyway - if I was Bute's trainer I would also have gotten my hands on Tatsevysan asap. It will be a rather easy win for Bute, but he will get some good points for the rankings. And it really doesn't matter how Bute gets his points because imo. he is destined to play in the top 3 no matter who he faces on the way there. Imo. Bute v Calzaghe would be a 50/50 fight at this point in time most likely. Perhaps a little edge to Joe because of experience, but not for long.
You're just a walking, talking quote machine aren't you?

You may quote me on that!

I think highly of Bute - of course he is not very tested still because the best he has met is Mock and he needs another step up. There are many people with better resumes than Bute, but we both know that upcoming stars beat people with better records on their way up - that is just the way it works. And I think Bute can do this. I actually think Bute should just avoid Kessler for as long as he can and then when their fight is inevitable it should be a huge fight because I expect both to be undefeated by then.

Axe · Post by **Axe** » 10 Dec 2006, 04:21

Deram wrote:
Axe wrote:
Deram wrote: Markussen was ahead on the scorecards and would have beaten Tsesyvan 8 out of 10 - IF he was in his normal mental state. In the state he was in that night he probably loses to 90 out of the top 100 SMW. He quit eventhough he wasn't even badly hurt. He said to his trainer in the ring "I don't want to be in here". He was basically a broken fighter before he entered the ring due to some personal problems - Palle knew that but still forced him to fight. So Markussen repaid him - although Markussen was the one that lost the most doing this demonstration.

Oh, and you cannot compare Tatseovyan with Mundine at all. Mundine is the fastest SMW and Tatseovysan is below average in speed. Tatseovysan has a good punch and is a rather tough fighter, but should in no way be compared to Mundine.

Anyway - if I was Bute's trainer I would also have gotten my hands on Tatsevysan asap. It will be a rather easy win for Bute, but he will get some good points for the rankings. And it really doesn't matter how Bute gets his points because imo. he is destined to play in the top 3 no matter who he faces on the way there. Imo. Bute v Calzaghe would be a 50/50 fight at this point in time most likely. Perhaps a little edge to Joe because of experience, but not for long.
You're just a walking, talking quote machine aren't you?
You may quote me on that! I think highly of Bute - of course he is not very tested still because the best he has met is Mock and he needs another step up. There are many people with better resumes than Bute, but we both know that upcoming stars beat people with better records on their way up - that is just the way it works. And I think Bute can do this. I actually think Bute should just avoid Kessler for as long as he can and then when their fight is inevitable it should be a huge fight because I expect both to be undefeated by then.

If that fight were to happen today, the bookies would have Calzaghe as something like an 8/9-1 favourite...and they'd be right.

Lucian isn't ready for that kind of step up...and the only reason you're confident in your quote is because you and I both know that the fight has exactly 0% chance of happening, particularly in the very near future.

Bute vs Kessler, on the other hand, may become a good matchup sometime in the next 2 years, but right now Bute is still a ways from the Calzaghe/Kessler class...both in terms of resume and in terms of skills.