Do you guys remember only qualifying nine boxers in 2004 because the team only got two chances to qualify internationally. Mickey Bey, the 125, go hurt before the second qualifier, giving him only one shot to qualify internationally for the Olympic team and he still wasn't 100%. What's the point of naming an Olympic team if we don't give them the best chance to qualify internationally.
From what I'm told, the first international qualifier is world championships in september of 2007 so obviously you need to have a team by then. They have to make sure they give the team all three chances to qualify for the games so we can hopefully send 11 boxers.
USA Roster for Ukraine Dual
boxfan08 - Injuries are one of the main reasons AIBA needs to change the rules so that a country is qualified for a weight class in the Olympics and not just a particular boxer.
Mel - If you are correct that a boxer must be in the top 4 to keep receiving the stipend (which I believe is incorrect), then Keith Thurman would no longer be receiving a stipend and would no longer be an elite boxer. He boxed at the US v Ukraine dual and won. He currently has 6 boxers ahead of him in the rankings. Shawn Porter also won at the dual and he has 4 boxers with more ranking points ahead of him. I believe Shawn is still receiving the stipend. My understanding is once you are an elite boxer (top 4 from the US Championships), you stay an elite boxer until the next US Championships (unless you turn pro, go to jail/prison, quit boxing, pass away or fail to compete internationally as required). The current elite team members will be on the team for more than 12 months due to the change to June for the 2007 US Championships.
DeLaCruz, Narvaez, Wohosky, and Nichol all have 4 guys ahead of them in the rankings in their respective weight classes.
Does USA Boxing elevate someone into the elite team when a boxer is removed from the team? I think they should. For instance, Richie Baltazar tragically died and there is a spot open at 125. Michael Evans was incarcerated so a spot was open at 132. Eugene Hill turned pro so there is a spot open at 201+.
By the way Mel, the points system and elite team work together to keep the elite members ranked high because the elite boxers are typically the ones selected for international competition and they are awarded substantial points for just competing and more for winning bouts.
Mel - If you are correct that a boxer must be in the top 4 to keep receiving the stipend (which I believe is incorrect), then Keith Thurman would no longer be receiving a stipend and would no longer be an elite boxer. He boxed at the US v Ukraine dual and won. He currently has 6 boxers ahead of him in the rankings. Shawn Porter also won at the dual and he has 4 boxers with more ranking points ahead of him. I believe Shawn is still receiving the stipend. My understanding is once you are an elite boxer (top 4 from the US Championships), you stay an elite boxer until the next US Championships (unless you turn pro, go to jail/prison, quit boxing, pass away or fail to compete internationally as required). The current elite team members will be on the team for more than 12 months due to the change to June for the 2007 US Championships.
DeLaCruz, Narvaez, Wohosky, and Nichol all have 4 guys ahead of them in the rankings in their respective weight classes.
Does USA Boxing elevate someone into the elite team when a boxer is removed from the team? I think they should. For instance, Richie Baltazar tragically died and there is a spot open at 125. Michael Evans was incarcerated so a spot was open at 132. Eugene Hill turned pro so there is a spot open at 201+.
By the way Mel, the points system and elite team work together to keep the elite members ranked high because the elite boxers are typically the ones selected for international competition and they are awarded substantial points for just competing and more for winning bouts.
That's because the amounts fluctuate depending on tbe USOC. All the rule book does is outline how our athletes can receive money and still stay amateur.I don't see any information about the monthly stipend in the rulebook.
Stipends from the USOC have never been paid to anyone who isn't in the top 3 or 4.You also indicate that the boxers have to stay in the top 4. I don't think that is correct
That is a definite change from the way it used to be done. I wonder when that system went into effect. I'll find out.even though it is much easier to do now that the point system is as follows: U.S. Championships: 1st – 150 pts., 2nd – 120 pts., 3rd & 4th – 100 pts., 5th – 8th – 75 pts. International competition: 30 pts for entering and 30 pts for each victory on top of initial 30 pts for entering the competition. Other National Tournaments, Nat’l GG & Nat’l PAL: 100 pts – 1st, 75 pts – 2nd, 50 pts – 3rd & 4th, 25 pts – 5th – 8th
That's because USA has a huge communication, or lack of, problem. Some years ago I published the ranking system on my web site. USA Boxing needs to put out this information so it doesn't appear to be a deep, dark secret.This point system is not publicly disseminated. I had to request the information directly from USA Boxing.
This is the thinking behind the decision. However it doesn't take into consideration that (1) some boxers won't keep the weight they qualified in for a year, (2) they won't be able to take off big blocks of time from work or school. What if they get hurt? Etc., etc., etc.I believe the reason USA Boxing is doing it is to focus their efforts on getting those boxers more international experience.
The qualifying process is that the top 8 boxers (quarterfinalists and up) at the U.S. Championships advance to a double-elimination Box-off tournament. If you don't make the top 8 in your weight class, you are SOL.I think that more boxers (not just the ones selected a year in advance) should get international experience and then at the last possible moment, the best boxers at that time can be selected through the trials/box-offs process.
Dennis, these qualifiers are strictly for the Pan Am Games, not the Olympics. The Olympics Americas qualifiers will be after our Box-offs.The problem is the Americas qualifiers (they start a year in advance of the Olympics)
Hope my above statements help. :)
Yes, for the Pan Am box-offs. Camp starts on the 15th, bouts on the 20th.boxmel wrote:Art - what is the camp for - the Pan Am Box-offs?
Again. the A2P money only has to be paid back IF a boxer is receiving a monthly stipend directly from A2P and has agreed to take this money as support. This is not the same as the monies won by the champions at the recent Blue & Gold. That was a one time incentive to bring the top boxers to the tournament.
There were three qualifiers, not two. Tijuana, Mexico, Brazil & Argentina.Do you guys remember only qualifying nine boxers in 2004 because the team only got two chances to qualify internationally.
Please remember that the 2004 qualifiers were the standard procedures. And since all the qualifiers started (for the US it was 2000), it has always been the name and not the weight. It's a real shame Mickey got hurt, but that's life and two of our boxers, Benitez and Garcia, didn't qualify at all. You don't qualify, you don't go to the Olympics.Mickey Bey, the 125, go hurt before the second qualifier, giving him only one shot to qualify internationally for the Olympic team and he still wasn't 100%. What's the point of naming an Olympic team if we don't give them the best chance to qualify internationally.
Yep.From what I'm told, the first international qualifier (for the Olympics) is world championships in september of 2007
Hence the Box-offs in August.so obviously you need to have a team by then.
Winning the Box-offs automatically qualifies you as the USA team to participate in the Americas qualifiers. However, in order to get to the Olympics, you must qualify in the Americas.They have to make sure they give the team all three chances to qualify for the games so we can hopefully send 11 boxers.
Thanks, Art - I have since found out the boxers go to Colorado Springs on the 15th and the box-offs are on the 20th and 21st. I'm guessing it will be held in the old Challenge format and the rankings will start from that event...???? Guessing.....Do you happen to know how the boxers are being picked?Yes, for the Pan Am box-offs. Camp starts on the 15th, bouts on the 20th
Just might see you there - I'm actually next on the US event list.
I want ya'll to know that this entire discussion has given me a huge headache, let alone I haven't done any real work today! 
I'm willing to bet that qualifying the boxer and not the weight keeps down the instances of putting in a ringer or someone you think might be better, even though he lost in the qualifier, at the last minute. Not that any country would cheat, mind you. Ha ha!boxfan08 - Injuries are one of the main reasons AIBA needs to change the rules so that a country is qualified for a weight class in the Olympics and not just a particular boxer.
It's always been that way - for years.Mel - If you are correct that a boxer must be in the top 4 to keep receiving the stipend (which I believe is incorrect),
And if you want my honest, unbiased opinion, I don't think that a lot of the ranked boxers deserve to be "elite" or be put in positions where they get all the goodies.then Keith Thurman would no longer be receiving a stipend and would no longer be an elite boxer.['quote]
He probably isn't. But he would still be an "elite" boxer. That term is used generally to describe those in the top 10 (more like the top 6).
But will those points bring him up to #4 status?He boxed at the US v Ukraine dual and won.
But he is also currently ranked #4.Shawn Porter also won at the dual and he has 4 boxers with more ranking points ahead of him.
This has been the SOP for years.My understanding is once you are an elite boxer (top 4 from the US Championships), you stay an elite boxer until the next US Championships (unless you turn pro, go to jail/prison, quit boxing, pass away or fail to compete internationally as required).
I have a feeling the rankings will start over with the Pan Bam box-offs.The current elite team members will be on the team for more than 12 months due to the change to June for the 2007 US Championships.
Truthfully, I haven't seen them do this in the past - although they should. I have seen pros kept on the ranking list for months after they had their first pro bout .Does USA Boxing elevate someone into the elite team when a boxer is removed from the team? I think they should. For instance, Richie Baltazar tragically died and there is a spot open at 125. Michael Evans was incarcerated so a spot was open at 132. Eugene Hill turned pro so there is a spot open at 201+.
By the way Mel, the points system and elite team work together to keep the elite members ranked high because the elite boxers are typically the ones selected for international competition and they are awarded substantial points for just competing and more for winning bouts.
Mel - you said: "That is a definite change from the way it used to be done. I wonder when that system went into effect. I'll find out."
It started this year without any advance notice.
You said: "USA Boxing needs to put out this information so it doesn't appear to be a deep, dark secret."
That is my point exactly.
You said: "I have a feeling the rankings will start over with the Pan Bam box-offs."
I hope not since it appears that just the top 4 from the 2006 US Championships will be in the box-offs unless a replacement is needed (Baltazar, Evans, Hill, etc.). Those boxers would get a jump on everyone else for the 2007 calendar year for "the goodies" that you discussed below.
You said: "And if you want my honest, unbiased opinion, I don't think that a lot of the ranked boxers deserve to be "elite" or be put in positions where they get all the goodies."
As we all know, some regions are a lot stronger than others and boxers from some of the weaker regions may get matched against each other at the US Championships and thus make it to the semi-finals and elite team status.
It started this year without any advance notice.
You said: "USA Boxing needs to put out this information so it doesn't appear to be a deep, dark secret."
That is my point exactly.
You said: "I have a feeling the rankings will start over with the Pan Bam box-offs."
I hope not since it appears that just the top 4 from the 2006 US Championships will be in the box-offs unless a replacement is needed (Baltazar, Evans, Hill, etc.). Those boxers would get a jump on everyone else for the 2007 calendar year for "the goodies" that you discussed below.
You said: "And if you want my honest, unbiased opinion, I don't think that a lot of the ranked boxers deserve to be "elite" or be put in positions where they get all the goodies."
As we all know, some regions are a lot stronger than others and boxers from some of the weaker regions may get matched against each other at the US Championships and thus make it to the semi-finals and elite team status.
The rankings have never carried on year after year. They always started with the US Championships (in March) and ended in December of that same year - and then started over again the next US Championships. I would expect the same policy to be in effect. And, yes, I have been wrong before.You said: "I have a feeling the rankings will start over with the Pan Bam box-offs."
I hope not since it appears that just the top 4 from the 2006 US Championships will be in the box-offs unless a replacement is needed (Baltazar, Evans, Hill, etc.). Those boxers would get a jump on everyone else for the 2007 calendar year for "the goodies" that you discussed below.
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Dennis wrote:boxfan08 - Injuries are one of the main reasons AIBA needs to change the rules so that a country is qualified for a weight class in the Olympics and not just a particular boxer.
Mel - If you are correct that a boxer must be in the top 4 to keep receiving the stipend (which I believe is incorrect), then Keith Thurman would no longer be receiving a stipend and would no longer be an elite boxer. He boxed at the US v Ukraine dual and won. He currently has 6 boxers ahead of him in the rankings. Shawn Porter also won at the dual and he has 4 boxers with more ranking points ahead of him. I believe Shawn is still receiving the stipend. My understanding is once you are an elite boxer (top 4 from the US Championships), you stay an elite boxer until the next US Championships (unless you turn pro, go to jail/prison, quit boxing, pass away or fail to compete internationally as required). The current elite team members will be on the team for more than 12 months due to the change to June for the 2007 US Championships.
Hey Guys
The Boxers who finish in the top 4 of the USA Championships receive stipends from that point until the next USA Championships
It does not change, not because you win the Golden Gloves or the P.A.L
This is the only tournament the USOC will support.
In the case of 125 Ritchard Baltazar they will move the next boxer up and if Mark Davis is not able to compete they will move another boxer up which has already been done (Navarez) another move will have to be made with Sadamm Ali (cant make 125lb)moving to 132
In the case of Eugene Hill turning pro they have moved up the P.A.L Champion
Mike Hunter we may not like they way they do it but
Thats it Thats all.
DeLaCruz, Narvaez, Wohosky, and Nichol all have 4 guys ahead of them in the rankings in their respective weight classes.
Does USA Boxing elevate someone into the elite team when a boxer is removed from the team? I think they should. For instance, Richie Baltazar tragically died and there is a spot open at 125. Michael Evans was incarcerated so a spot was open at 132. Eugene Hill turned pro so there is a spot open at 201+.
By the way Mel, the points system and elite team work together to keep the elite members ranked high because the elite boxers are typically the ones selected for international competition and they are awarded substantial points for just competing and more for winning bouts.
Pan Am Box-offs Information
For information on participation at the Pam Am Box-offs in Colorado Springs on January 20 & 21, please contact Jeff Steffen at [email protected].
Dennis, USA Boxing cannot force AIBA to change their rules so that athletes qualify by weight therefore at this point, we have to live within the rules that we were given and prepare our athletes in the best way we can.
Aaron Garcia was never a part of the Olympic Team and therefore never would have qualified.
Aaron Garcia was never a part of the Olympic Team and therefore never would have qualified.
Yes, I know that AIBA dictates how we do things not the other way around. I'm stating my opinion (of which I have many) that the rule should be changed. Will they change it, who knows? They seem to change many rules, policies and other things often so maybe it will happen.boxfan08 wrote:Dennis, USA Boxing cannot force AIBA to change their rules so that athletes qualify by weight therefore at this point, we have to live within the rules that we were given and prepare our athletes in the best way we can.
