Holyfield Overated

[pundit]

There's not one win on Vitali's record that I would even consider notable.

Really? What a surprise.

[The Great John L]

There's not one win on Vitali's record that I would even consider notable.

Really? What a surprise.

It shouldn't be a surprise, because Dec is correct. He beat a few pretty good fighters, but certainly no one historically notable.

[pundit]

There's not one win on Vitali's record that I would even consider notable.

Really? What a surprise.

It shouldn't be a surprise, because Dec is correct. He beat a few pretty good fighters, but certainly no one historically notable.

You think so too? I would never have guessed.

[The Great John L]

Really? What a surprise.

It shouldn't be a surprise, because Dec is correct. He beat a few pretty good fighters, but certainly no one historically notable.

You think so too? I would never have guessed.

I'm not too surprised. I keep forgetting the high regard you have for Kirk Johnson.

[Cojimar 1945]

I can understand people liking Vitali as a person however I don't understand why some people rate him so highly given his resume. He lacks wins over really highly regarded guys. Someone does not have to be a great fighter to be worthy of admiration but this does not mean that guys should be rated higher than more accomplished fighters.

[pundit]

I can understand people liking Vitali as a person however I don't understand why some people rate him so highly given his resume. He lacks wins over really highly regarded guys. Someone does not have to be a great fighter to be worthy of admiration but this does not mean that guys should be rated higher than more accomplished fighters.

I don't rank Vitali "so highly". Top 40 ATG at best, maybe not even that.

But higher than Don King's fake champs Ruiz and Byrd? For sure. They nevber could ahve given LL the fight Vitali did, at no stage of their or LL's career.

[Cojimar 1945]

I think Tua was better than anyone Vitali beat. Would you disagree?

[pundit]

I think Tua was better than anyone Vitali beat. Would you disagree?

Yes.

But then, a career doesn't consist only of mechanically counting wins. Vitali's status derives essentially from two things: (i) he gave the guy who was considered untouchable for years a hell of a fight, and (ii) he was considered the man at heavyweight thereafter, although not for very long.

This is not terribly much -- it's certainly less than Bowe, for example, where we agree that he isn't a first-row ATG either -- but it is something.

You couldn't say this of Byrd or Ruiz. Not even close. They basically never went much beyond fringe contender status who got hold of a belt each because their manager was Don King.

[pundit]

Vitali ducked Ruiz and got TKOed by Byrd.

[pundit]

Vitali ducked Ruiz and got TKOed by Byrd.

Those are facts. EVERYONE ducked Ruiz when he was the WBA champion. He was the one pushing for a unification tournament. He's the one who wrote an open letter to Vitali Klitschko, asking for a unification bout (Vitali fought Fatty Williams instead, and then retired without ever defeating a top-five heavyweight).

[pundit]

Byrd told Boxing Talk that he was afraid of fighting John Ruiz. "Everyone's afraid of fighting John Ruiz," he told Boxing Talk.

Yeah, maybe Byrd was afraid.

[Collins2000]

Little (fag looking) tap tap Tyrd TKO9 Hulking No Heart (actual fag) Quitchko

[pundit]

Little (fag looking) tap tap Tyrd TKO9 Hulking No Heart (actual fag) Quitchko

Little nutter cough cough Collins thinking sigh sigh that this wow wow was really boy boy a legit win

[Collins2000]

Little (fag looking) tap tap Tyrd TKO9 Hulking No Heart (actual fag) Quitchko

Little nutter cough cough Collins thinking sigh sigh that this wow wow was really boy boy a legit win

It was a great win. Little fag lookalike tyrdie weathers the storm and comes back to outgut actual confirmed square head fag.

Fag Jnr later restored the family pride though.

[pundit]

Little (fag looking) tap tap Tyrd TKO9 Hulking No Heart (actual fag) Quitchko

Little nutter cough cough Collins thinking sigh sigh that this wow wow was really boy boy a legit win

It was a great win. Little fag lookalike tyrdie weathers the storm and comes back to outgut actual confirmed square head fag.

Fag Jnr later restored the family pride though.

If this makes you happy....

[Collins2000]

Little nutter cough cough Collins thinking sigh sigh that this wow wow was really boy boy a legit win

It was a great win. Little fag lookalike tyrdie weathers the storm and comes back to outgut actual confirmed square head fag.

Fag Jnr later restored the family pride though.

If this makes you happy....

Oh, I see. After making 3 dozen nut-hugging posts regarding Klitschko spread across any thread that so much as mentions heavyweights, you are suggesting that I'm the one that is living in a fantasy world?

PS are they both fags or is it just the older one?

[pundit]

It was a great win. Little fag lookalike tyrdie weathers the storm and comes back to outgut actual confirmed square head fag.

Fag Jnr later restored the family pride though.

If this makes you happy....

Oh, I see. After making 3 dozen nut-hugging posts regarding Klitschko spread across any thread that so much as mentions heavyweights, you are suggesting that I'm the one that is living in a fantasy world?

PS are they both fags or is it just the older one?

Yawn.
Why don't you come back when you have something to say.

(I know, the "risk" then is that you won't come back)

[Collins2000]

If this makes you happy....

Oh, I see. After making 3 dozen nut-hugging posts regarding Klitschko spread across any thread that so much as mentions heavyweights, you are suggesting that I'm the one that is living in a fantasy world?

PS are they both fags or is it just the older one?

Yawn.
Why don't you come back when you have something to say.

(I know, the "risk" then is that you won't come back)

It's your lucky day, pundit. At the moment I'm in the mood to pratice my markmanship on a plank of wood.



PS have you seen the homo-erotic photos of V and W? Shit, of course you have or you wouldn't be banging on about them both at every opportunity. I particularly like the felching one...

[Heartbreak_Kid79]

Vitali ducked Ruiz and got TKOed by Byrd.

Vitali was winning on points, but quit with a shoulder injury.
Byrd won by default when he was losing.

[The Great John L]

You couldn't say this of Byrd or Ruiz. Not even close. They basically never went much beyond fringe contender status who got hold of a belt each because their manager was Don King.

Now there’s an objective and highly intelligent statement. If Byrd “never went much beyond fringe contender status” then what does that say about Vitali? Let’s see, Byrd beat Holyfield, Tua and VITALI. Who did Vitali beat? Not who did he lose to in a competitive fight -- but who did he BEAT? He had two opportunities to accomplish something significant, and he lost both times. Kinda like Duane Bobick…

[pundit]

You couldn't say this of Byrd or Ruiz. Not even close. They basically never went much beyond fringe contender status who got hold of a belt each because their manager was Don King.

Now there’s an objective and highly intelligent statement. If Byrd “never went much beyond fringe contender status” then what does that say about Vitali? Let’s see, Byrd beat Holyfield, Tua and VITALI. Who did Vitali beat? Not who did he lose to in a competitive fight -- but who did he BEAT? He had two opportunities to accomplish something significant, and he lost both times. Kinda like Duane Bobick…

We had thee discussion umpteenth times. Vitali vs. Byrd clearly showed that Vitali was the far superior hevyweight, whatever the recorded result. That there is a class difference between them. But Vitali's main claim to fame is anyway not his fight with "the midget", but are the 6 rounds he went with Lennox, and the fact that he was widely considered the #1 heavyweight after Lennox' retirement.

You may disagree on this -- and while I have trouble grasping the logic in your emotinonally charged utterances, chewing the same points though for the 15th time with the same folks simply isn't very interesting.

P

[The Great John L]

You may disagree on this -- and while I have trouble grasping the logic in your emotinonally charged utterances, chewing the same points though for the 15th time with the same folks simply isn't very interesting.

Then why do you continually bring this up, or respond to those who do bring it up? The only emotional statements I see being made are coming from you; not those of us who like to give credit to fighters who accomplish things in the ring, rather than in the media.

[pundit]

You may disagree on this -- and while I have trouble grasping the logic in your emotinonally charged utterances, chewing the same points though for the 15th time with the same folks simply isn't very interesting.

Then why do you continually bring this up, or respond to those who do bring it up? The only emotional statements I see being made are coming from you; not those of us who like to give credit to fighters who accomplish things in the ring, rather than in the media.

You brought this up in this thread, buddy, and as far as I can see totally unmotivated [Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:57 am].

It must be an issue very dear to your heart indeed. Looks like a severe emotional disturbance bordering a clinical condition.

I guess I got involved because others joint the discussion with interesting points, like dr devious and Cojimar, although I was largely debating Ruiz and Byrd, not Vitali. The uninteresting part is you and you bro's Dec BS, but then the word "Vitali" seems to trigger a reaction with you resembling well-trained laboratory mice at feeding time -- so I guess there is a certain inevitability about it.

[The Great John L]

You brought this up in this thread, buddy, and as far as I can see totally unmotivated [Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:57 am].

Oh really? How about this post from 12/1?

At least Vitali won his WBC belt fair and square after the previous champ retired.

Not sure of the specific context of the comment, because I really don’t want to read through all of your posts. I only add to these exchanges when you make really baseless or incomprehensible claims. Unfortunately for all of us that seems to happen quite often.

Looks like a severe emotional disturbance bordering a clinical condition.

I agree. You should definitely seek help, because your abilities are clearly impaired, and you seem only capable of expressing yourself through outright hostility.

[pundit]

You brought this up in this thread, buddy, and as far as I can see totally unmotivated [Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:57 am].

Oh really? How about this post from 12/1?

At least Vitali won his WBC belt fair and square after the previous champ retired.

Not sure of the specific context of the comment, because I really don’t want to read through all of your posts. I only add to these exchanges when you make really baseless or incomprehensible claims. Unfortunately for all of us that seems to happen quite often.

Looks like a severe emotional disturbance bordering a clinical condition.

I agree. You should definitely seek help, because your abilities are clearly impaired, and you seem only capable of expressing yourself through outright hostility.

And goodbye.