Bob Fitzsimmons: All-Time Pound for Pound Great

[HomicideHenry]

Bob Fitzsimmons as an amateur won both Lightweight and Middleweight tournaments, being the amateur champion of New Zealand. The transplanted Welshman would also participate in numerous bare-knuckle bouts.

His amateur career ended in 1882 and he made tours of Australia up until 1890 when he finally made the trip to America. After 4 wins and a no decision in America he was given a shot at Middleweight champion Jack “The Nonpareil” Dempsey, whom he knocked out in 13 rounds.

The Middleweight Fitzsimmons took a back seat in the three years he was champion, making all but 2 title defenses, the last to Dan Creedon. During his time as the 160 pound king he realized that he could make bigger purses fighting much larger men, the largest of these men was 6’7” and 240 pounds, whom Fitzsimmons knocked out in three rounds.

From the Creedon fight up until 1896 ‘Speckled Bob’ fought well over a hundred exhibitions, and Fitzsimmons officially raged war against the Heavyweight division, knocking out Peter Maher in a single round and whipping Tom Sharkey fair and square for eight rounds, although referee Wyatt Earp ruled that Fitzsimmons fouled.

Despite all the controversies, the public, as well as champion James Corbett, picked Fitzsimmons as being the man to beat. Fitzsimmons was outweighed by nearly 20 pounds, but tore into the slick moving fast paced Corbett from the first round to the 14th, where the most famous body shot in the history of boxing took place.

Fitzsimmons literally made Corbett vomit on the canvas as he planted his deadly solar-plexus punch, where most ringsiders claimed that the punch was so viscous that the fist of Fitzsimmons seemed to have disappeared into Corbett’s body.

This was the first time that a world Middleweight champion became a Heavyweight champion as well, a feat that would not be matched until Roy Jones won a fraction of the title over John Ruiz in 2004.

After the tremendous victory over Corbett, Fitzsimmons had a few exhibitions, including a kayo over Leadville Blacksmith, whose true name was Lew Joslin, a man weighing roughly 260 pounds. Fitzsimmons stopped him in the 2nd round.

John L. Sullivan even came out of retirement to face off with this newly crowned champion, but was prevented by police intervention. In 1899 Fitzsimmons lost the Heavyweight crown to 206 pound James J. Jefferies, an undefeated power hitter who would later be deemed the greatest champion in history by such men as Jack Dempsey, Sam Langford and even Jack Johnson.

Fitzsimmons wasn’t quite done with the Heavyweight ranks, as he challenged for the Heavyweight title one more time, losing by kayo, though ahead of points, against James J. Jefferies. He again defeated Tom Sharkey, as well as Gus Ruhlin, Jim Daly, Ed Dunkhorst and Con Coughlin, who died the day after the fight from severe injuries sustained against Fitzsimmons.

Fitzsimmons eventually won the Light Heavyweight championship of the world with a 20 round decision over George Gardner, he was already well into his late 30’s. He defended the title all but once successfully, eventually losing it to ‘Philadelphia’ Jack O’Brien by kayo.

Fitzsimmons again dabbled at Heavyweight, losing to such men as Jack Johnson and Bill Lang in a bid for the Heavyweight title of Australia. He continued on fighting until 1914, at the age of 50, though he would continue to do exhibitions for another two years afterwards.

As a Middleweight Fitzsimmons ranks remarkably high, easily inside the top 20, despite his title reign being rather lackluster with a lack of defenses. Why? From 1883 to 1895 he compiled a record of 30-4 (22) with 6 no-decisions against the world’s best, as well as beating Jack Dempsey who reigned for 7 years before being dropped 13 times against Fitzsimmons. Then throw in that being no more than 160 pounds or less, he knocked out many Heavyweights and Light Heavyweights.

Hell he only weighed 167 against James Corbett, and that was after his Middleweight career!

Throw in the exhibitions, and throw in the 7 fights in one night stunt that he did against some decent Heavyweights, just shows how special a fighter he truly was. Not to mention also being boxing’s first Triple Crown champion.

On a pound-for-pound basis he is right up there with Armstrong, Robinson and Pep. Yes he was not as active as a Heavyweight and even less active as a Light Heavyweight, as he was as a Middleweight, but Fitzsimmons broke barriers and undeniably was the most dangerous fighter all-around on the planet, irregardless if he was fighting at Middleweight, Light Heavy, or even Heavyweight.

In my mind he ranks low as a Light Heavyweight, considering he didn’t win the title until he was older and failed to hold on to that title and in that time the Light Heavyweight division was considered a joke, a kind of Purgatory for fighters who were too big and too good to be fighting at Middleweight but lacked the power and the size to fight the better Heavyweights on equal ground, some what like the present day Cruiserweight division.

As a Heavyweight Fitzsimmons is still a top 25-30 Heavyweight, considering he beat a prime Corbett, defeated a slew of men double his own size, beat many genuine contenders and was beating Jefferies on points, truly blooding up the much larger man until he was kayoed.

His losses to Johnson and Lang were well after his prime, being in his mid-late forties, especially in the Johnson fight, as he had an arm injury and was blown away in 2 rounds by a prime Jack Johnson.

To put it into perspective, imagine Joe Calzaghe or Bernard Hopkins going up against Wladimir Klitschko, Nicolay Valuev, or even Shannon Briggs, and not bulking up in the least bit and still knocking them out. That’s what Bob Fitzsimmons was like.

With all the statistics, what makes me wonder, and hopefully makes others question, is how would Fitzsimmons have faired against the men who are generally considered ‘pound for pound’ greats, who would have fit into the three weight classes that he participated in.

-‘Sugar’ Ray Robinson

-Roy Jones, Jr.

-Bob Foster

-Thomas Hearns

-Jake LaMotta

-Roberto Duran


Even though Robinson, Duran, Hearns, Leonard and Robinson never competed in the Heavyweight ranks, all these men have competed between Middleweight and higher, facing off against the highest level of opposition, for a period of time that branched farther than the majority of champions and contenders alike, before and after their careers.

Robinson is usually at the top of the list when it comes to the title of ‘pound for pound’ king, and although he never fought Heavyweights, he beat Light Heavyweight champion Maxie Rosenbloom for 13 rounds without mercy before becoming dehydrated. His jumps from Welterweight to Light Heavyweight truly match Fitzsimmons division jump from Middleweight to Heavyweight, and his level of competition can arguably be said to surpass ‘Ruby Red’s’, even though Fitzsimmons competed against all-comers up until he was 50, taking on prime Jack Johnson among others.

As great an offensive genius as Robinson was, and with his speed and skill still dominating the higher weights, I can’t see Robinson, even at his best, out powering Fitzsimmons, who could stop a 260+ pound dead in his tracks. And not to say Fitzsimmons couldn’t beat the slick movers either, mind you he beat all-time great tacticians in Jack O’Brien and James J. Corbett, who some old timers claimed was just as elusive as Muhammad Ali.

But despite all of that, Fitzsimmons, although clearing out the best of the Middleweight division, and eventually winning titles at Heavyweight and Light Heavyweight, he did not beat the best contenders at higher weights as often or in such flare and pizzazz as Robinson did. How can you argue that? You can’t.

Sure Fitzsimmons knocked out a lot of Heavyweights, most of them unknowns, and had the ability to beat guys at Light Heavyweight, even when he was an old man, and sure he cleaned out the Middleweight division, but Fitzsimmons wasn’t exactly facing off with Jake LaMotta six times, Randy Turpin, Bobo Olsen, Gene Fulmer, Carmen Basilio, and a slew of other all-time great Hall of Famers on a regular basis either, like Robinson was.

Yes Fitzsimmons had the punch, the ability, the toughness and the skill…but despite it all, I sincerely can’t see Fitzsimmons beating Robinson, irregardless if it was 15 rounds or 20 rounds. Robinson would win over Fitzsimmons, even though in my mind it would be just as brutal as Robinson’s fights with LaMotta were.

Bob Foster at one time held the record for the most successful title defenses at Light Heavyweight. His power was almost second to none, a quote from Shakespeare almost says it best as ‘It is excellent to have the strength of a giant, but not to use it like a giant’. Foster was somewhat the reverse, he used his power unmercifully and the boxing world knew he was the man at Light Heavy when it came to the kayo.

He was tall, used his reach well, and his chopping rights and lefts were brutal. His kayo of Dick Tiger was no less than phenomenal. Unfortunately, despite Foster trying to make the effort, the power, if not the chin, didn’t cross over into the Heavyweight ranks. His losses to Ali and Frazier were both by kayo, as well as losses to Charles Polite. Possibly his biggest win at Heavyweight was a kayo over Mike Quarry, the brother of Jerry Quarry, which was on the undercard of the Ali-Quarry bout. In a humorous twist the venue was called the ‘Quarry Bros vs. The Soul Bros’,

Based on all this, as much as I respect Bob Foster, if Fitzsimmons could handle behemoths and knock them out, and could take the best punches they could give, there is no rain makers chance in hell that Foster could have lasted too long with the tenacious Fitzsimmons who broke bones in the ring, as well as spirits.

Jake LaMotta, though never competing at no more than Light Heavyweight, had faced many men at 175 who had dabbled at Heavyweight and absolutely blew them away. Arguably the toughest man to ever set foot into a boxing ring, LaMotta destroyed men like Marcel Cerdan, Holman Williams, Tommy Bell, and was the first man to beat Robinson. The fight that showed just how tough LaMotta was was his title defense against Lauthelle, where he was beat on for almost 15 rounds, and in the last remaining seconds knocked his nemesis down and out.

LaMotta, like Robinson, faced virtually every big name in the business. His toughness, tenacity and never taking a step backward style made him one of the most dangerous opponents of all time, let alone the 1940’s and 1950’s.

Fitzsimmons may have had more power, but LaMotta was only stopped a few times, and these were either against all-time greats or when he was over the hill and pretty much shot. Although the same could be said of Fitzsimmons, though without the same conviction; also take into consideration that like Robinson, LaMotta faced the best of the best on a regular basis, unlike Fitzsimmons who seemed lackluster after winning titles.

This would have been a very tough and very close fight, going the distance, but I see LaMotta in the end still staring back at Fitzsimmons and coming home with the decision, possibly a split decision.

Thomas Hearns was virtually a giant, fighting from Welterweight to Light Heavyweight, even though in the last few years he made a come back at Cruiserweight. His longevity, combined with his power and size, including toughness and the warrior attitude to every fight, makes him a lethal fighter not just for Fitzsimmons, but virtually ANY fighter between those weight classes, present day or not.

His kayos over Roberto Duran, his wars with Ray Leonard, combined with awesome fights against the likes of Marvin Hagler, Wilfred Benitez and Virgil Hill, make him ultimately an all-time great fighter who left his mark on an era that was rich in talent.

Despite all this, the size, the fury, the power, the skill, Thomas Hearns greatest weakness was, as is with some power hitters, his chin, as he failed in the two biggest fights of his career, against Ray Leonard in their first fight and against Marvin Hagler.

I think in the end, if Fitzsimmons could weather the storm, which I believe he could, that he would not only beat Tommy Hearns, but knock him out. It would be almost a mirror image of the Hagler fight, with both men trading blows and giving all their worth, with Fitzsimmons eventually getting the upper hand.

Roberto Duran went from Lightweight to Middleweight in such a fashion few have ever seen duplicated. Look at this success rate: Sugar Ray Leonard, Ken Buchanan, Esteban DeJesus, Davey Moore, Iran Barkley, winning titles, though fractions of the world titles at higher weights, at Lightweight (world), WBC Welterweight, WBA Junior Middleweight and WBC Middleweight.

His power ceased to cease as he gained weight, but it was his toughness, ferocity and phenomenal skills that made him succeed at higher weight classes. He competively fought until the age of 50, as did Fitzsimmons, and was still ranked remarkably high as a Super Middleweight.

It makes one wonder though exactly how tough Duran was, considering Duran was blown away by Hearns, although Duran seemed to redeem himself in his later years by butchering much younger and stronger men in Davey Moore and Iran Barkley. It does seem somewhat ironic as to how Duran could go the distance with Hagler, but not with Hearns, who lost to the ‘Marvelous’ one.

Duran was in the mold of a Dempsey like fighter. He was a dangerous swarmer, but could box like no ones business when the situation called for it. I don’t think Fitzsimmons ever faced a fighter much like Duran, with the exception of a young Tom Sharkey whose best years was ahead of him---so I think experience was the main factor in those wins for Fitz over the county Cork Irish native.

This by far, in my mind, is the hardest fight to judge by. Though in the end, if Duran was truly psyched for the fight (he could be lackadaisical) I don’t exactly see Fitzsimmons beating Duran, although I can see him going the distance, if not into the later rounds---as his power and his experience might be enough to keep Duran at bay long enough to be able to sustain an attack of his own.

Roy Jones, Jr. is quite possibly the most like Fitzsimmons, at least in the aspect of competing at such low weights and eventually winning a portion of the Heavyweight title. For all his speed and greatness, Jones power never really seemed to carry over into Heavyweight against John Ruiz.

Jones in a way is a lot like Mike Tyson, both men cleared out divisions, but the majority of their opponents were not exactly barn stormers. For Tyson there were the Tubbs’ and the Smiths’ and the Bruno’s, for Jones it was the Fraziers’ and the Halls’ and the Woods’.

You can’t really hold it against a guy for not fighting real opponents when there simply isn’t any. It’s like Larry Holmes era, when the majority of his opponents were guys on the level of Scott LeDoux and Alfredo Evangelista. But Jones did defeat such men as Bernard Hopkins and James Toney and Mike McCallum in impressive fashion.

It just seemed, as with Fitzsimmons, that Jones became rather lazy, if not reluctant, to defend his title against opposition beyond the second rate. But, Fitzsimmons had people on the level to face off against, Jones had virtually only one man left at Light Heavyweight to face off with that would have posed any real threat.

I think in the end the only thing outside of opposition and era that separates these two men, is the lone venture at Heavyweight that Jones did against tough, but limited John Ruiz. Yes it was for a title, but Jones wasn’t facing the true champion in Lennox Lewis, nor was he fighting a more gifted fighter who packed a bigger punch.

Fitzsimmons on the other hand defeated a slew of Heavyweights, and won the true title from the true champion and lost only by kayo to one of the divisions all-time great punchers in Jefferies and in his later years to men at higher weight classes.

Jones on the other hand lost by kayo to Antonio Tarver and Glen Johnson at Light Heavyweight. Of course it can be said that Jones was much older by that time and the move down from Heavyweight back to 175 drained him. But irregardless, take into consideration that it was an all-time great in Jefferies and all-time great Jack Johnson and all-time great Jack O’Brien who stopped Fitzsimmons; the latter two were when Fitz was in his mid to late 40’s.

I can see this going both ways. Jones could be knocked out, and Fitzsimmons, the flat footed fighter he was, could be out hustled and out pointed and possibly cut wide open and stopped by Jones; although Fitzsimmons beat James Corbett, among other movers by kayo.

Flip a coin…this one is too tough a call for me to make.

[kovit]

Bob Foster never lost to Charley Polite, look at Foster's record and beating Mike Quarry is not a heavyweight contest it's Foster's successful defense of his world light heavyweight championship. You should get your fact straight.

[dr_devious]

Bob Fitzsimmons was a Cornishman, not Welsh. And Ray Robinson lost in a LH title bout to Joey Maxim, not Maxie Rosenbloom.
I agree that Fitz is an all time great, not up there with Ray Robinson etc but a great fighter in his own right. Hed have a very live chance with his power against any middleweight or light heavy

[pundit]

I have Fitz down as a Kiwi. Definitely an ATG pfp, l-h, m, and in the extended circle at H.

[Collins2000]

As great an offensive genius as Robinson was, and with his speed and skill still dominating the higher weights, I can’t see Robinson, even at his best, out powering Fitzsimmons, who could stop a 260+ pound dead in his tracks. And not to say Fitzsimmons couldn’t beat the slick movers either, mind you he beat all-time great tacticians in Jack O’Brien and James J. Corbett, who some old timers claimed was just as elusive as Muhammad Ali.

Who are the old timers who made this claim?