Did Danny Williams fulfill his potential?
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monkeybusiness
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 77
- Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 16:40
Did Danny Williams fulfill his potential?
I remeber for years hearing that we never saw the best of DW and, in 01-03 that he would be a force on the world scene. If he retires now, did he ever fulfil his potential? I would be inclined to say yes. He challenged for a world title but was too inconsistant to do better. Against Tyson, because he more far gone than people imagined, it gave the impression Williams was better than he really was. He found his place at domestic level and having lost to Harrison and Skelton, should call it a day.
Danny was very lucky vs Tyson. I am convinced that had Tyson not hurt his leg (and he did), then he would have had Danny out of there in the 2nd. Tyson was looking very good - I know had Danny survived the 2nd, he would have won (cause Tyson's stamina was appauling) but I'm not convinced Danny would have survived.
Danny normally takes a long time to get his legs "back" after hurt. I personally don't think Danny's balance was right after practically the first shot vs Harrison in the rematch (the shot the pushed Danny back to the ropes), the same with Klitchsko... brave but never looked steady - same after the first knock down vs Sam.
From the end of the first though, Tyson couldn't punch with the authority as before the injury. - Tyson is all about leverage, and he didn't have it after the injury.
Anyway enough of that fight.
Did Danny fulfil his potential.... No, never fought the European/World level fighters at his best weight. Julius Francis (circa 2001) was a good guide for European level fighters - dominate Francis at that stage and you were a good European if not world level fighter. Williams did (albeit at a second attempt) but never won at European level. Kali Meehan should have been WBO champion, he got robbed vs Brewester - Danny smashed Meehan even better than Hasim Rahman did.
Danny chin would always be a concern at European/World level, but I think at a lighter weight, with better fitness - his own punch resistance would have improved.
Harrison laboured to a boring decision win vs a much older Francis.
Danny normally takes a long time to get his legs "back" after hurt. I personally don't think Danny's balance was right after practically the first shot vs Harrison in the rematch (the shot the pushed Danny back to the ropes), the same with Klitchsko... brave but never looked steady - same after the first knock down vs Sam.
From the end of the first though, Tyson couldn't punch with the authority as before the injury. - Tyson is all about leverage, and he didn't have it after the injury.
Anyway enough of that fight.
Did Danny fulfil his potential.... No, never fought the European/World level fighters at his best weight. Julius Francis (circa 2001) was a good guide for European level fighters - dominate Francis at that stage and you were a good European if not world level fighter. Williams did (albeit at a second attempt) but never won at European level. Kali Meehan should have been WBO champion, he got robbed vs Brewester - Danny smashed Meehan even better than Hasim Rahman did.
Danny chin would always be a concern at European/World level, but I think at a lighter weight, with better fitness - his own punch resistance would have improved.
Harrison laboured to a boring decision win vs a much older Francis.
Meaning wot exactly?...yeh Harrison is crap, but Danny lost to Francis and only beat him years later by thumbing him in the eye.stujones wrote:Danny was very lucky vs Tyson. I am convinced that had Tyson not hurt his leg (and he did), then he would have had Danny out of there in the 2nd. Tyson was looking very good - I know had Danny survived the 2nd, he would have won (cause Tyson's stamina was appauling) but I'm not convinced Danny would have survived.
Danny normally takes a long time to get his legs "back" after hurt. I personally don't think Danny's balance was right after practically the first shot vs Harrison in the rematch (the shot the pushed Danny back to the ropes), the same with Klitchsko... brave but never looked steady - same after the first knock down vs Sam.
From the end of the first though, Tyson couldn't punch with the authority as before the injury. - Tyson is all about leverage, and he didn't have it after the injury.
Anyway enough of that fight.
Did Danny fulfil his potential.... No, never fought the European/World level fighters at his best weight. Julius Francis (circa 2001) was a good guide for European level fighters - dominate Francis at that stage and you were a good European if not world level fighter. Williams did (albeit at a second attempt) but never won at European level. Kali Meehan should have been WBO champion, he got robbed vs Brewester - Danny smashed Meehan even better than Hasim Rahman did.
Danny chin would always be a concern at European/World level, but I think at a lighter weight, with better fitness - his own punch resistance would have improved.
Harrison laboured to a boring decision win vs a much older Francis.
Who gives a Fack about Mr Kipling, ya'll must have forgot about what a gobsh!te he was before he got lucky against Tyson and how he put up one of the worst displays of all times for a WBC Heavyweight championship fight.
And his displays against Sprott, praying during the fight and hitting low then landing one on him when he's almost doubled up from getting smacked in the bollox.
Thank fack this guy is out the game with his pathetic displays of pugilism that probably turn more casual fans away from the sport than to it.
Good By Danny...and good riddence!
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overhand_right
- Heavyweight
I'd say Williams actually did more than he should have, considering his serious issues with confidence, durability, and fitness.
Around 2001 he looked like a possible world force, but we know now his chin would always let him down. Seemed to stagnate at UK level in 02 and then in 03 was destroyed at European level. Bounced back to whip a ageing icon but looked well out of his depth in his lone world title challenge.
His weight problems have put a lot of people off but i'd say the big fellas been good character for British boxing over the last 6 years.
Would never have beaten Bruno, Mason, Lewis, Akinwande or Hide IMO though. Oyebola, Francis, Welch, Derek Williams etc more his level.
Around 2001 he looked like a possible world force, but we know now his chin would always let him down. Seemed to stagnate at UK level in 02 and then in 03 was destroyed at European level. Bounced back to whip a ageing icon but looked well out of his depth in his lone world title challenge.
His weight problems have put a lot of people off but i'd say the big fellas been good character for British boxing over the last 6 years.
Would never have beaten Bruno, Mason, Lewis, Akinwande or Hide IMO though. Oyebola, Francis, Welch, Derek Williams etc more his level.
Danny is a massive overachiever. You have to remember, he turned pro with no great amateur pedigree - no ABA title, no gold medal in a major event.
He picked up super-heavyweight bronze in the 1994 Commonwealth Games in Canada.
Danny switched a year later and was 15-0 when outfoxed by Julius Francis in a challenge for the British and Commonwealth heavyweight titles in April 1999. This wasn't the same Francis who loses all the time today but a sleeker, ambitious model who secured a payday with Mike Tyson nine months later.
Still the raw puncher, Danny switched trainers from Winston Spencer to Jim McDonnell and showed better boxing to capture the vacant Commonwealth heavyweight title with a decision over tough Harry Senior later in 1999 and immense courage to capture the vacant British heavyweight title against Mark Potter in 2000. We all know what happened: Danny, his right shoulder dislocated, found a winning left uppercut in the sixth (on the same night in the States, Andrew Golota quit shamelessly against Mike Tyson).
In his first fight back in June 2001, Williams bombed out New Zealand's Kali Meehan in 32 seconds with two thumping rights - one of his best wins (Meehan later pushed Lamon Brewster to a split decision in a challenge for the WBO heavyweight title in Las Vegas). A month after that, Danny avenged his defeat to Francis with a convincing four-round knockout. Another fine win. How many stop Francis? In 2002, Williams stopped Reading's Michael Sprott in defence of his British and Commonwealth titles (seven rounds), to be followed by a points win over Brixton rival Keith Long and the marvellous Lonsdale Belt for life.
It was going well when he went out to stop European heavyweight champion Sinan Samil Sam in Berlin in 2003, due to the hometown nature of decisions in Germany. It played into the hands of the cute, underrated Turk who licked Audley Harrison in the amateurs and licked Williams, too - he crushed him in six one-sided rounds.
A former menswear assistant, Danny dressed himself down and bounced back with a stunning knockout of Tyson in America - one of the greatest peformances ever from a British fighter abroad. With 17,272 crammed into Louisville's Freedom Hall and 90 countries carrying the fight on TV, the sacrificial London boy traded mean punches with the "baddest man on the planet", slowed him with body shots, then dumped him with a sustained barrage to the head in the fourth. Tyson, bloodied and bemused, looked every one of his 38 years on the floor. He stayed down long enough to be counted out.
It secured Danny a dream shot at the WBC heavyweight title held by the Ukraine's Vitali Klitschko in Las Vegas in December 2004, but the challenger couldn't catch up with the freakishly-tall Klitschko, or get out of the way of his long counters. But he gave it everything before he was stopped in the eighth.
Danny resisted calls for his retirement afterwards - including one from his own promoter - and was given a second chance and chugged into unbeaten Harrison in London last December, put him on the floor and outpointed him for the vacant Commonwealth title. In his first defence, he answered all those who said he "bottled" a previous scheduled meeting with Matt Skelton, when he stood up to the unbeaten Bedford Bear in London in February, shrugged off his streetfighter tactics, popped him on the outside, smothered him inside - used all his experience to snatch a deserved split decision.
Still only 33, Williams, the best British heavyweight since the retirement of Lennox Lewis in 2004, overachieved because he licked Tyson in the States, went all the way to a major world title shot, enjoyed an Indian summer after Klitschko - and battled horrendous pre-fight nerves. The man was reduced to tears before fights, he suffered so much. He was lucky to beat Michael Sprott in their rematch in September 2003 (Sprott was knocked out in the fifth while protesting to referee Terry O'Connor about low blows) and threw away his British and Commonwealth titles in a mandated third fight with Sprott in January 2004.
"When people talked about me fighting Michael Sprott, I got so nervous because everybody expected me to beat him," explained the likeable Williams. "But against someone Tyson, nothing was expected."
And sure enough he shook off the early bombs of Tyson to give a career-best display.
It's become easy to downplay that victory in July 2004 since the plodding Kevin McBride repeated the feat. But Tyson went into the Williams fight trained by Freddie Roach and off a 49-second blastout of Clifford Etienne. He had Danny wobbling in the opener from a brutal left uppercut.
"I always figured I was going to get hurt early," admitted Williams. "I showed heart like Rocky Marciano and came back."
By the third, he was pushing Tyson back and firing off big shots of his own - his body shots were particularly effective.
A sustained Williams barrage of 21 punches took all the fight out of the bloodied ex-convict in the fourth.
Up to the rematch with Skelton in July, Danny was the man to beat in the British heavyweight division: the man who smashed Tyson, who burst Harrison's bubble, who tackled Klitschko, who flattened two-time WBO heavyweight champion Herbie Hide in sparring (Hide ducked out of a fight for real).
Who overachieved.
He picked up super-heavyweight bronze in the 1994 Commonwealth Games in Canada.
Danny switched a year later and was 15-0 when outfoxed by Julius Francis in a challenge for the British and Commonwealth heavyweight titles in April 1999. This wasn't the same Francis who loses all the time today but a sleeker, ambitious model who secured a payday with Mike Tyson nine months later.
Still the raw puncher, Danny switched trainers from Winston Spencer to Jim McDonnell and showed better boxing to capture the vacant Commonwealth heavyweight title with a decision over tough Harry Senior later in 1999 and immense courage to capture the vacant British heavyweight title against Mark Potter in 2000. We all know what happened: Danny, his right shoulder dislocated, found a winning left uppercut in the sixth (on the same night in the States, Andrew Golota quit shamelessly against Mike Tyson).
In his first fight back in June 2001, Williams bombed out New Zealand's Kali Meehan in 32 seconds with two thumping rights - one of his best wins (Meehan later pushed Lamon Brewster to a split decision in a challenge for the WBO heavyweight title in Las Vegas). A month after that, Danny avenged his defeat to Francis with a convincing four-round knockout. Another fine win. How many stop Francis? In 2002, Williams stopped Reading's Michael Sprott in defence of his British and Commonwealth titles (seven rounds), to be followed by a points win over Brixton rival Keith Long and the marvellous Lonsdale Belt for life.
It was going well when he went out to stop European heavyweight champion Sinan Samil Sam in Berlin in 2003, due to the hometown nature of decisions in Germany. It played into the hands of the cute, underrated Turk who licked Audley Harrison in the amateurs and licked Williams, too - he crushed him in six one-sided rounds.
A former menswear assistant, Danny dressed himself down and bounced back with a stunning knockout of Tyson in America - one of the greatest peformances ever from a British fighter abroad. With 17,272 crammed into Louisville's Freedom Hall and 90 countries carrying the fight on TV, the sacrificial London boy traded mean punches with the "baddest man on the planet", slowed him with body shots, then dumped him with a sustained barrage to the head in the fourth. Tyson, bloodied and bemused, looked every one of his 38 years on the floor. He stayed down long enough to be counted out.
It secured Danny a dream shot at the WBC heavyweight title held by the Ukraine's Vitali Klitschko in Las Vegas in December 2004, but the challenger couldn't catch up with the freakishly-tall Klitschko, or get out of the way of his long counters. But he gave it everything before he was stopped in the eighth.
Danny resisted calls for his retirement afterwards - including one from his own promoter - and was given a second chance and chugged into unbeaten Harrison in London last December, put him on the floor and outpointed him for the vacant Commonwealth title. In his first defence, he answered all those who said he "bottled" a previous scheduled meeting with Matt Skelton, when he stood up to the unbeaten Bedford Bear in London in February, shrugged off his streetfighter tactics, popped him on the outside, smothered him inside - used all his experience to snatch a deserved split decision.
Still only 33, Williams, the best British heavyweight since the retirement of Lennox Lewis in 2004, overachieved because he licked Tyson in the States, went all the way to a major world title shot, enjoyed an Indian summer after Klitschko - and battled horrendous pre-fight nerves. The man was reduced to tears before fights, he suffered so much. He was lucky to beat Michael Sprott in their rematch in September 2003 (Sprott was knocked out in the fifth while protesting to referee Terry O'Connor about low blows) and threw away his British and Commonwealth titles in a mandated third fight with Sprott in January 2004.
"When people talked about me fighting Michael Sprott, I got so nervous because everybody expected me to beat him," explained the likeable Williams. "But against someone Tyson, nothing was expected."
And sure enough he shook off the early bombs of Tyson to give a career-best display.
It's become easy to downplay that victory in July 2004 since the plodding Kevin McBride repeated the feat. But Tyson went into the Williams fight trained by Freddie Roach and off a 49-second blastout of Clifford Etienne. He had Danny wobbling in the opener from a brutal left uppercut.
"I always figured I was going to get hurt early," admitted Williams. "I showed heart like Rocky Marciano and came back."
By the third, he was pushing Tyson back and firing off big shots of his own - his body shots were particularly effective.
A sustained Williams barrage of 21 punches took all the fight out of the bloodied ex-convict in the fourth.
Up to the rematch with Skelton in July, Danny was the man to beat in the British heavyweight division: the man who smashed Tyson, who burst Harrison's bubble, who tackled Klitschko, who flattened two-time WBO heavyweight champion Herbie Hide in sparring (Hide ducked out of a fight for real).
Who overachieved.
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don't call it a comeback
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 332
- Joined: 26 Apr 2004, 08:47
In terms of his performances inside the ring, yes he fulfilled his potential. High level European standard but not world class not world champion material.
Where he massively exceeded his potential was in his public profile - he's a pretty well known figure to the general public - in boxing terms - and that is almost solely down to his victory over Tyson and will probably give him earning opportunities both inside the ring - should he choose - and outside the ring for years to come.
With his Tyson win he has a little piece of world boxing history that many more accomplished fighters have failed to achieve.
Where he massively exceeded his potential was in his public profile - he's a pretty well known figure to the general public - in boxing terms - and that is almost solely down to his victory over Tyson and will probably give him earning opportunities both inside the ring - should he choose - and outside the ring for years to come.
With his Tyson win he has a little piece of world boxing history that many more accomplished fighters have failed to achieve.
Yes, I didn't remember much of the Commonwealth boxing tournament that year - apart from being very impressed with Spencer Oliver. However, on some of these TV nostalgia sites you can download the opening credits to the 1994 games (BBC) and see a very young Danny Williams in them.bennie wrote:Danny is a massive overachiever. You have to remember, he turned pro with no great amateur pedigree - no ABA title, no gold medal in a major event.
He picked up super-heavyweight bronze in the 1994 Commonwealth Games in Canada.
I can see what your saying, but I still not sure he was ever at his prime (weight wise) when he did step up. Sure, the Danny Williams from Sam onwards was a sluggish fighter who had lost (through weight and condition) the snap in his punches and had no workrate. Tyson style made things easy for Danny and I think his injury played a significant part in the fight.don't call it a comeback wrote:In terms of his performances inside the ring, yes he fulfilled his potential. High level European standard but not world class not world champion material.
Where he massively exceeded his potential was in his public profile - he's a pretty well known figure to the general public - in boxing terms - and that is almost solely down to his victory over Tyson and will probably give him earning opportunities both inside the ring - should he choose - and outside the ring for years to come.
With his Tyson win he has a little piece of world boxing history that many more accomplished fighters have failed to achieve.
However, I honestly believe the Williams who beat Francis, Meehan, Long, Sprott (fight one) were good enough to mix with most of this bunch and he is younger than most of them also. The two Klitchsko boys might have been too much, but the rest - not sure.
Meehan BEAT Brewster in the eyes of most and Brewster before Lyakhovich was considered as the Heavyweight champion to look out for as a possible savour. Danny did a better job vs Meehan than Hasim Rahman also.
Nick, I can see what you are saying too - I do disagree, I thought a young, light Danny Williams looked a real, geniune talent. But even if you don't agree - as there been any Heavyweight (except Lewis and Klitchsko's) that have looked any better than that version of Williams. Yes, the opposition wasn't that taxing - but Meehan, Francis, Sprott and Long was as good as what the likes of Rahman, Brewster, Ruiz et al were fighting at a similar stage in their career.
Now, I am not saying Danny is in the league of Lewis and Klitchsko, but I think a light Williams could more than hold his own against the likes of Ruiz, Briggs, Brewster, Lyakhovich, Maskaev, etc - all belt holders.
I think Danny would have destroyed Hide, might belonged in the Mason/Bruno level - but wouldn't have done anything vs Lewis and Akinwande.
Herbie Hide is the most overated/over protected fighter in British boxing I would say. He didn't even beat a champion to win the British title. He beat Michael Murray who was hardly UK top ten at the time. He then fights and beats Michael Bent, himself a very very lucky champion at a time of year when Bent wasn't best prepared - not Hide's fault that granted.
Would Hide have fought Tommy Morrison - umm no chance, everytime Herbie stepped up he got desimated just like Danny... but Herbie didn't even fight the best domestic fighters of that time... at least Danny did that.
Even when a more matured Hide re-captured his "world" title vs a completely shot Tony Tucker (not Hide's fault he was #1 contender) - just look at the names he had as defences.... absolute pants. Damon Reid, Willie Fischer - brilliant.
One thing that I truly believed Danny had that was world class was power, for me he would have nailed Hide and eventually get to Bruno, Mason.
Danny is a fair bit better than the fighters Overhand claim he is on the level of. When Danny beat Francis, big Jules was coming off a win vs Welch - yet Danny is only at the same level as Welch apparently.