Marciano-Ali: That's Right I'm Back!

[HomicideHenry]

Boxing is always full of arguments. ‘Who was the greatest?’ is the most common of all questions that seems to have an opinion from everybody. In the early 1900’s the answer would have been Jim Jefferies. In the 1920’s it would have been Jack Dempsey. In the 1940’s it was Joe Louis, and so on.

Possibly the bigger argument would have been ‘Would this champion of beaten this one?’

Since the beginning of pugilism, old-timers always stick to their guns that men in their era were tougher than the ‘new guys’ and the younger generations boast that the guys of their time were faster and stronger than the ‘old folks’.

There has been several ‘fantasy fights’ always mentioned down the line, ‘What if, Jack Dempsey fought Joe Louis?’ or ‘What if Larry Holmes fought a prime Muhammad Ali?’

WHAT IF is clearly the biggest argument in boxing. Without the ‘what ifs’ I don’t sincerely think there would really be boxing. And I don’t think without a doubt that the biggest what if of all is the hypothetical question ‘What if Muhammad Ali and Rocky Marciano fought?’

I think its safe to say that a lot of today’s fans would more than likely pick Ali to win, but when you start to question them about Marciano, you see many a blank expression. Many fans have never seen Marciano, and some have probably never sat through all of Ali’s greatest fights on television.

Someone hears the two words ‘The Greatest’ and they take it simply as that. This is a generation that is sinking further and further in intelligence, as everything is learned by word of mouth and not by investigation and by the naked eye.

To give either man their due, one must look at what they did and who they fought and how they won. Marciano was 49-0 43 by knockout. He has the highest kayo percentage of any heavyweight champion by 88%. He defeated the likes of Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott and Archie Moore. He overcame a short reach, late start and crude skills to become heavyweight champion in an era that wasn’t the crème of the crop, but was certainly not one of the worst.

A lot of people point out that Charles, Moore and Walcott were ‘past their primes’, but when you truly look at each mans careers you can see that this is not true. Charles was only two years older than Rocky and was the greatest Light Heavyweight of all time and was certainly a solid Heavyweight with both skill, speed and a good punch. Not much of a disparity in age, so the ‘old, passed his prime’ explanation doesn’t quite fit. If anything, Charles was still near his prime when he fought Rocky the first and second time.

Jersey Joe Walcott was 37 years old when he won the title. In my opinion he was cheated a number of times out of title fights, such as with Joe Louis in their first fight and against Charles. Many will say he was ‘too old’ when he fought Marciano, but what many don’t take into consideration is that Walcott was fighting THE greatest fight of his carrer before being knocked out in the 13th round. Ask Joe Louis and others whether or not Joe Walcott got better in age.

Archie Moore was Marciano’s last opponent. He was a solid 10 years older than Rocky, but Moore would go on to hold the Light Heavyweight title an additional decade AFTER his loss to Marciano, and would continue to dabble at Heavyweight until 1963, facing off with Floyd Patterson for the vacant Heavyweight title, and was still ranked remarkably high as a Heavyweight when he fought a young Cassius Clay (Muhammad Ali), ironically nobody scoffs at Ali when he fought Archie Moore and he was twenty years younger than he was!

Now Ali fought the best of the best, as did Marciano, in his era. He defeated the likes of Henry Cooper, Sonny Liston, Floyd Patterson, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, George Foreman, Oscar Bonavena and Jerry Quarry to name a few from the 1960’s to 1975.

There is no question that Ali could have beaten the men in Marciano’s era, even Walcott, Moore and Charles, but not with the ease that everyone believes it would be, they would have been heavily contested fights. But on the other end of the spectrum, Marciano would have beaten the majority of the men Ali did as well.

Could you sincerely see Marciano losing to Cooper? Bonavena? Quarry? I can’t. Outside of Liston, Foreman and Frazier, I see Marciano beating every other man Ali fought with relative ease, just as I see Ali beating the likes of LaStarza, Matthews, Layne, etc.

Now, let’s look at it this way. How would have Walcott, Charles or Moore would have faired with Frazier and Liston? I can honestly say that if Charles could go 15 rounds with Marciano that it wouldn’t be too far out of the question that Charles could have possibly beaten Frazier or at least went the limit with him.

Or how about Walcott against the likes of Liston? Walcott was such an innovator and improved new moves and could so easily adjust himself to any situation, much like Ali could, that I could see Walcott and his ‘Waltz’ out hustle Sonny.

So in this aspect, Marciano is on even ground with Ali.

As far as George Foreman is concerned, I must admit, it is extremely hard for me to envision Marciano being able to withstand George Foreman’s onslaught of thunderous punches. So I don’t think I could bring myself to ever say that Marciano could have beaten George Foreman, although, unlike Joe Frazier, Marciano wasn’t as aggressive, and he made himself a much smaller target than what Joe did, so the only chance Marciano could have had is if he extended Foreman passed the 6th or 7th round.

But…

We are talking Marciano against Ali, not Marciano against Foreman. Now, this might sound crazy, but I do think that Marciano could have beaten the same Ali that fought Foreman in 1974 in Zaire, and here’s the reason why.

I don’t think, after careful review of both fighters careers that Marciano could have knocked out Muhammad Ali. Ali managed to prove between 1970-1975 that he could take a punch against Norton, Foreman and Frazier, among others.

The Ali of 1974 didn’t have the spring in his legs, and against Foreman he showed that. He rested on the ropes for over seven rounds and it wasn’t until the middle of the 8th that he managed to make an affective attack and that was because Foreman was tired and would have eventually dropped dead from exhaustion---like he would do against Jimmy Young in the aftermath of their fight in 1978.

Ali I believe would have had the clear mindset that he couldn’t dance for 15 rounds against Marciano, who would come at him from the first bell to the last. Ali would have ‘rope-a-doped’ for the majority of the rounds, while the ‘Rock’ would have punched and punched at everything in reach of him, especially the arms.

Take a look at what Marciano did to Roland LaStarza in their second fight. Marciano punched and punched his opponents arms until the blood vessels burst and the bones began to crack. LaStarza was once quoted as saying ’10 rounds I could have made with him, but not for 15’ and how he urinated blood after the loss to Marciano.

Joe Frazier himself after seeing this fight on film was once quoted as saying that the ‘rope-a-dope’ wouldn’t have worked on Marciano, that Ali would have had to of done something different, else he would have taken a battering.

Now a prime Marciano versus the Ali of the 1974 Foreman fight, I can’t see beating Marciano, for the simple fact that Marciano was such a tenacious man in training that he never seemed to tire in the ring. Take for example his fight with Ezzard Charles in their first match, there was but only one clinch in the entire 15 rounds they fought.

I see the Marciano-Ali fight going the distance, with close scores, considering Ali could fight off the ropes and his last minute flurries could influence judges.

The way I see it is, if a man who hit almost* as hard as George Foreman and was just as tenacious in his ferocity, could keep punching non-stop (since Marciano was unquestionably the best conditioned heavyweight champion in history) unlike George Foreman, with Ali doing the ‘rope-a-dope’ for the majority of the fight…

I think its pretty well explanatory that Marciano would have been extremely difficult for Ali to beat---had Ali fought the way he did against Foreman. And it does lead me to think he would considering he used the ‘rope-a-dope’ against Joe Frazier in all three of their fights, and all three fights were blood baths, with Frazier winning one of the three, which could have been two out of three, had Frazier came out for the 15th round in Manila, since Ali collapsed after being awarded the victory and said it was the closest thing to death he ever felt.

And Marciano hit harder than Joe, and was better in defense and had the edge in endurance. I think the Ali of the 1960’s could have beaten Marciano, but then again, Ali was never really pressured in his career and learned how to deal with real conflict until he went up against Frazier in 1970---but I don’t think the Ali of 1975 and beyond could have beaten Marciano. 1970-1975 was the perfect Ali, where he still had obtained a lot of his speed, shown that he could take punishment and could adapt to most styles and situations.

With all that being said, Marciano could have beaten the Ali of 1974 had he fought like he did against Foreman, which makes me believe he would have considering how Foreman would cut down the ring, as would Frazier and Marciano.

Prime versus prime? That is a question I am still trying to work on. Myself, as I have said prior, the Ali of 70-75 had it all, minus a few deducted points in speed. But the 70’s is when he truly showed his greatness. The 60’s just showed that he was the fastest man to ever lace the gloves at Heavyweight, but little else, other than his personality.

If the Cleveland Williams fight was Ali at his best, and the first Ezzard Charles fight was Rocky’s best, I think in fairness, these two would have probably put on the greatest fight of all time, and if Marciano didn’t cut to the point where it was stopped, I think it would have been a very, very close draw. A fight that truly could have went either way.

Both men were simply the greatest.

[pundit]

Both men were simply the greatest.

Ali yes, Marciano no.

PS: btw, we have missed you SOOOOO much.

[Seamus]

For toughness, Marciano, Louis, Dempsey and the rest, just weren't in Ali's league. Personally I can't see any of those guys surviving the shot Earnie Shavers hit him with ( not to mention the ones he took from Foreman and Frazier) and The Greatest stayed on his feet !

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

If the Cleveland Williams fight was Ali at his best, and the first Ezzard Charles fight was Rocky’s best

the first ezzard charles fight was defintley not rockys best fight IMO. in fact, marciano once called the first ezzard charles fight "my worst fight" because rocky felt he overtrained and was stale, and he was very rusty after a 10 month layoff.


rockys peak fight was either walcott I or louis fight IMO.

[HomicideHenry]

^^^

You have to figure also, had Shavers realized that Ali was fooling around, pretending to not be hurt, he could have knocked Ali out then and there in the 2nd round. The only difference was Ali's psyche ability, had he not thought quick enough to have done so, he would have been just another of Shavers kayo victims.

Ali could take a great deal of punishment, but to say he was above Dempsey or Marciano is not quite accurate.

[silkov]

For toughness, Marciano, Louis, Dempsey and the rest, just weren't in Ali's league. Personally I can't see any of those guys surviving the shot Earnie Shavers hit him with ( not to mention the ones he took from Foreman and Frazier) and The Greatest stayed on his feet !

Marciano gleefully fought on as his face was cut in half. Ali tried to quit on a couple of occassions.

Bullshit, when did Ali ever 'try and quit'... was it when he had his jaw broke and kept stopping his corner pulling him out??... the crap you come out with is just amazing!...

[silkov]

^^^

You have to figure also, had Shavers realized that Ali was fooling around, pretending to not be hurt, he could have knocked Ali out then and there in the 2nd round. The only difference was Ali's psyche ability, had he not thought quick enough to have done so, he would have been just another of Shavers kayo victims.

Ali could take a great deal of punishment, but to say he was above Dempsey or Marciano is not quite accurate.

Why isnt it accurate??.... if a washed up Ali could still beat an animal like Shavers that shows the ability and courage of the man, Ali at his best would have played with Dempsey and Marcinao.... Rocky fought just 6 world class fighters in his whole career and most of them Louis, Charles, Walcott and Moore were past their best... Ali was head and shoulders above Marcinao and to say otherwise really is to avoid reality...

[Sweet Scientist]

Dempsey would be a decent challenge to Ali with that big time left hook...a decent challenge doesn't mean he'd win...

Marciano...would have to be the luckiest guy on earth to find a way to beat Ali...it would have to be a fluke...like Ali sufffering a hernia in the middle of the fight or something...(came close to happening against Liston in the 2nd fight scheduled for Boston in fall of '64...)

[silkov]

Dempsey would be a decent challenge to Ali with that big time left hook...a decent challenge doesn't mean he'd win...

Marciano...would have to be the luckiest guy on earth to find a way to beat Ali...it would have to be a fluke...like Ali sufffering a hernia in the middle of the fight or something...(came close to happening against Liston in the 2nd fight scheduled for Boston in fall of '64...)

If the likes of Liston, Foreman, Frazier, Norton and Shavers, to name just a few, were unable to ko Ali then I dont see either Dempsey or Marciano coming any closer... Ali fought better opposition than either Dempsey or Marciano and would win handily over both at his peak.

[HomicideHenry]

I think it is almost ludacris for people to make Ali into something greater than what he was. The more and more time goes on, ALi has morphed into an almost 'Super Man' like legend, where nobody in hell could have ever beaten him, yet he was beaten 5 times, the latter three in the 76-81 period.

It's like alot of Marciano fans who think Marciano would have tore anybody into pieces, and that he was unbeatable. Neither is true at all. Ali was beatable, as was Marciano. I'm not doubting Ali's greatness, but the man has become something of a mythological demi-god in boxing where he's the greatest of all time and nobody could ever beat him no matter if he fought them a 1,000 times.

I'm sorry but Ali had many weaknesses, he was not the greatest. In the 1960's he showed that he was definately the fastest, but there were too many questions left unanswered and in many respects was untested. The 1970-1975 Ali was at his best, proving he could take a punch, that he could improvise in the most dangerous of situations etc, while 1976 to 1981 was a down hill spiral to nothingness.

In my opinion, I don't think Ali could have been kayoed by either Dempsey, Louis or Marciano, but he would have been hurt and there is a great chance that he could have lost by decision.

Ali is over-rated in too many aspects.

[Collins2000]

I think it is almost ludacris for people to make Ali into something greater than what he was. The more and more time goes on, ALi has morphed into an almost 'Super Man' like legend, where nobody in hell could have ever beaten him, yet he was beaten 5 times, the latter three in the 76-81 period.

It's like alot of Marciano fans who think Marciano would have tore anybody into pieces, and that he was unbeatable. Neither is true at all. Ali was beatable, as was Marciano. I'm not doubting Ali's greatness, but the man has become something of a mythological demi-god in boxing where he's the greatest of all time and nobody could ever beat him no matter if he fought them a 1,000 times.

I'm sorry but Ali had many weaknesses, he was not the greatest. In the 1960's he showed that he was definately the fastest, but there were too many questions left unanswered and in many respects was untested. The 1970-1975 Ali was at his best, proving he could take a punch, that he could improvise in the most dangerous of situations etc, while 1976 to 1981 was a down hill spiral to nothingness.

In my opinion, I don't think Ali could have been kayoed by either Dempsey, Louis or Marciano, but he would have been hurt and there is a great chance that he could have lost by decision.

Ali is over-rated in too many aspects.

Which aspects would they be, Rupert?

"Too many questions left unanswered"???? Get fekkin real, mate. He fought and beat the best of 2 eras including several other ATGs.

What else was there left to prove?

[MEISINGER]

i do not think he is doubting ali being great.
i am reading that ali has become god like and people do not think anyone could deal with him in his prime.

i agree.ali though great could be challenged by other greats and it could end up in a pick um type battle.i feel louis,marciano,holmes and lewis could give ali fits.i would not place money on any of these fights out of fear of losing.

no one said ali is not great,just that he was a man and could be beaten.

[Collins2000]

i do not think he is doubting ali being great.
i am reading that ali has become god like and people do not think anyone could deal with him in his prime.

i agree.ali though great could be challenged by other greats and it could end up in a pick um type battle.i feel louis,marciano,holmes and lewis could give ali fits.i would not place money on any of these fights out of fear of losing.

no one said ali is not great,just that he was a man and could be beaten.

I don't think even the most deluded amongst us has lost sight of the fact that Muhammad Ali was a mere mortal.

In fact, I have not seen a single post on here claiming his divinity.

So in other words once again Rupert is merely stating what basil fawlty used to describe as 'the bleeding obvious'.

[pundit]

I think it is almost ludacris for people to make Ali into something greater than what he was. The more and more time goes on, ALi has morphed into an almost 'Super Man' like legend, where nobody in hell could have ever beaten him, yet he was beaten 5 times, the latter three in the 76-81 period.

It's like alot of Marciano fans who think Marciano would have tore anybody into pieces, and that he was unbeatable. Neither is true at all. Ali was beatable, as was Marciano. I'm not doubting Ali's greatness, but the man has become something of a mythological demi-god in boxing where he's the greatest of all time and nobody could ever beat him no matter if he fought them a 1,000 times.

I'm sorry but Ali had many weaknesses, he was not the greatest. In the 1960's he showed that he was definately the fastest, but there were too many questions left unanswered and in many respects was untested. The 1970-1975 Ali was at his best, proving he could take a punch, that he could improvise in the most dangerous of situations etc, while 1976 to 1981 was a down hill spiral to nothingness.

In my opinion, I don't think Ali could have been kayoed by either Dempsey, Louis or Marciano, but he would have been hurt and there is a great chance that he could have lost by decision.

Ali is over-rated in too many aspects.

No fighter is totally unbeatable (although at heavyweight, the late 1960s Ali and the late 1930s Louis come as close to this as it gets).

But I have little doubt that Ali vs. Marciano would have been a pretty one-sided beating. Just look at what Archie Moore had to say about this, and he should know. Btw, Moore also thought that Marciano would have lost to a prime Ezzard Charles. It was only the washed up version of Charles that Marciano could beat.

I personally don't have Marciano in my top 10 ATG heavyweight. There are at leat a dozen boxers in heavyweight history who had the means to outbox him.

[Ambling Alp]

Every other heavyweight champion was either beaten or at least seriously threatened.

Ali was never beaten in his prime (1964-1967). In fact against some pretty good competition, he never was seriously challenged. In ten title fights, he scored 8 knockouts and won two very lopsided decisons.
He wasn't a god. But he was the best.

[Ezzard]

Every other heavyweight champion was either beaten or at least seriously threatened.

Ali was never beaten in his prime (1964-1967). In fact against some pretty good competition, he never was seriously challenged. In ten title fights, he scored 8 knockouts and won two very lopsided decisons.
He wasn't a god. But he was the best.

Many of the great champs were unbeaten in their prime. Because Ali went to prison there is no debate about this prime period. It's not the case for others. Ali was the greatest but I think Frazier defeat counts.

[pundit]

Every other heavyweight champion was either beaten or at least seriously threatened.

Ali was never beaten in his prime (1964-1967). In fact against some pretty good competition, he never was seriously challenged. In ten title fights, he scored 8 knockouts and won two very lopsided decisons.
He wasn't a god. But he was the best.

Many of the great champs were unbeaten in their prime. Because Ali went to prison there is no debate about this prime period. It's not the case for others. Ali was the greatest but I think Frazier defeat counts.

Of course it counts, but it also counts that Ali had been out for several years and went to straight the champ.

[The Great John L]

Every other heavyweight champion was either beaten or at least seriously threatened.

Ali was never beaten in his prime (1964-1967). In fact against some pretty good competition, he never was seriously challenged. In ten title fights, he scored 8 knockouts and won two very lopsided decisons.
He wasn't a god. But he was the best.

Many of the great champs were unbeaten in their prime. Because Ali went to prison there is no debate about this prime period. It's not the case for others. Ali was the greatest but I think Frazier defeat counts.

Of course it counts, but it also counts that Ali had been out for several years and went to straight the champ.

Well, he didn't go straight to the champ. Remember he had “tune ups” against Quarry, who I think was ranked #1 at the time and Bonavena, who was a perennial contender and one tough SOB. The fact he came back against these 2 prior to fighting the champ is pretty amazing, but let’s not short change Frazier, who fought a great fight against the greatest and won. Frazier’s style would have always given Ali trouble.

[silkov]

I think it is almost ludacris for people to make Ali into something greater than what he was. The more and more time goes on, ALi has morphed into an almost 'Super Man' like legend, where nobody in hell could have ever beaten him, yet he was beaten 5 times, the latter three in the 76-81 period.

It's like alot of Marciano fans who think Marciano would have tore anybody into pieces, and that he was unbeatable. Neither is true at all. Ali was beatable, as was Marciano. I'm not doubting Ali's greatness, but the man has become something of a mythological demi-god in boxing where he's the greatest of all time and nobody could ever beat him no matter if he fought them a 1,000 times.

I'm sorry but Ali had many weaknesses, he was not the greatest. In the 1960's he showed that he was definately the fastest, but there were too many questions left unanswered and in many respects was untested. The 1970-1975 Ali was at his best, proving he could take a punch, that he could improvise in the most dangerous of situations etc, while 1976 to 1981 was a down hill spiral to nothingness.

In my opinion, I don't think Ali could have been kayoed by either Dempsey, Louis or Marciano, but he would have been hurt and there is a great chance that he could have lost by decision.

Ali is over-rated in too many aspects.

Absolute tripe, its you who are overrating Marcinao and Dempsey, like so many others, both Dempsey and Marciano are the most overrated of the heavyweight champions... you only have to compare their careers to see that Ali is in a different class and thats the truth whether you like it or not, to say Ali could have been koed by either Dempsey or Marcinao when Ali fought bigger punchers in Liston, Frazier and Foreman is just laughable really... even an old fading Ali never came close to being koed, in his prime Ali would have cut both Dempsey and Rocky to peices... Ali outstrips Jack and Rocky in all areas, ability, opposition faced, longevity, you name it!....

My advise is you go away again Rufus and come back when you've lost the obsession with Dempsey and Marcinao... or at least tell us why Ali doesnt measure up to them and what these questions were that were left unanswered??? .
Marciano fought at a time when the division was very thin in talent and Dempsey arguably didnt even prove that he was the best of his era as he never fought Harry Wills... Ali fought in the most talented era for the division, he ducked no one and he acheived all that he did despite losing his peak years in the latye 60s!!....
Personally I think Jim Jeffires was better than both Dempsey and Marcinao... but he wouldnt have beaten Ali either, but he would have given him a better fight than the other two...

[The Great John L]

... or at least tell us why Ali doesnt measure up to them and what these questions were that were left unanswered???

Maybe he meant that there were unanswered questions when he was suspended – although I’m not sure what those questions were. Whatever Ali may not have had the opportunity to show during his first career, he certainly showed it after his comeback as he beat a better list of fighters than any other HW in history.

[silkov]

... or at least tell us why Ali doesnt measure up to them and what these questions were that were left unanswered???

Maybe he meant that there were unanswered questions when he was suspended – although I’m not sure what those questions were. Whatever Ali may not have had the opportunity to show during his first career, he certainly showed it after his comeback as he beat a better list of fighters than any other HW in history.

Well exactly, and at the end of the day we still didnt see Ali at his best... its mind boggling how good he could have been had he not been banned, the fact that he was able to dominate the 70s despite having lost much of his initial talent and ability shows just how great he was and that his greatest ability was his confidence and guile...

[Sweet Scientist]

Dempsey would be a decent challenge to Ali with that big time left hook...a decent challenge doesn't mean he'd win...

Marciano...would have to be the luckiest guy on earth to find a way to beat Ali...it would have to be a fluke...like Ali sufffering a hernia in the middle of the fight or something...(came close to happening against Liston in the 2nd fight scheduled for Boston in fall of '64...)

If the likes of Liston, Foreman, Frazier, Norton and Shavers, to name just a few, were unable to ko Ali then I dont see either Dempsey or Marciano coming any closer... Ali fought better opposition than either Dempsey or Marciano and would win handily over both at his peak.

Not much doubt about that...but I think Dempsey would be a good match up...you have to admit...you'd love to see it...

[silkov]

I dont deny that, but what about Ali vs Jeffries?.... even better I think... Jeffries was a real iron man, it puzzles me that he is so overlooked while Dempsey and Marcinao are talked about all the time...

[Ezzard]

I think it is almost ludacris for people to make Ali into something greater than what he was. The more and more time goes on, ALi has morphed into an almost 'Super Man' like legend, where nobody in hell could have ever beaten him, yet he was beaten 5 times, the latter three in the 76-81 period.

It's like alot of Marciano fans who think Marciano would have tore anybody into pieces, and that he was unbeatable. Neither is true at all. Ali was beatable, as was Marciano. I'm not doubting Ali's greatness, but the man has become something of a mythological demi-god in boxing where he's the greatest of all time and nobody could ever beat him no matter if he fought them a 1,000 times.

I'm sorry but Ali had many weaknesses, he was not the greatest. In the 1960's he showed that he was definately the fastest, but there were too many questions left unanswered and in many respects was untested. The 1970-1975 Ali was at his best, proving he could take a punch, that he could improvise in the most dangerous of situations etc, while 1976 to 1981 was a down hill spiral to nothingness.

In my opinion, I don't think Ali could have been kayoed by either Dempsey, Louis or Marciano, but he would have been hurt and there is a great chance that he could have lost by decision.

Ali is over-rated in too many aspects.

Absolute tripe, its you who are overrating Marcinao and Dempsey, like so many others, both Dempsey and Marciano are the most overrated of the heavyweight champions... you only have to compare their careers to see that Ali is in a different class and thats the truth whether you like it or not, to say Ali could have been koed by either Dempsey or Marcinao when Ali fought bigger punchers in Liston, Frazier and Foreman is just laughable really... even an old fading Ali never came close to being koed, in his prime Ali would have cut both Dempsey and Rocky to peices... Ali outstrips Jack and Rocky in all areas, ability, opposition faced, longevity, you name it!....

My advise is you go away again Rufus and come back when you've lost the obsession with Dempsey and Marcinao... or at least tell us why Ali doesnt measure up to them and what these questions were that were left unanswered??? .
Marciano fought at a time when the division was very thin in talent and Dempsey arguably didnt even prove that he was the best of his era as he never fought Harry Wills... Ali fought in the most talented era for the division, he ducked no one and he acheived all that he did despite losing his peak years in the latye 60s!!....
Personally I think Jim Jeffires was better than both Dempsey and Marcinao... but he wouldnt have beaten Ali either, but he would have given him a better fight than the other two...

I believe that Dempsey is clearly a better all round boxer than Marciano. I also think of the 3 you mention he has a far better chance with Ali than the others.

Dempsey had a good defence, plenty of speed and that all important left hook required to get to Ali. There are question marks about his reign and maybe he would have been defeated by Wills...even so, I don't think that means he couldn't give Ali a real test.

[The Great John L]

I dont deny that, but what about Ali vs Jeffries?.... even better I think... Jeffries was a real iron man, it puzzles me that he is so overlooked while Dempsey and Marcinao are talked about all the time...

Sadly, Jeff is overlooked these days.