Duran vs Mugabi, 154lbs?

Rocky Balboa · Post by **Rocky Balboa** » 23 Dec 2006, 13:49

Well, what do you guys think about this one?

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 23 Dec 2006, 14:28

Was the Beast ever at this weight. I thought he was a middle at the least.
Anyway, if Hearns could do that to Duran, Mugabi if he lands cleanly has just as good a chance. Duran to win has to go the full route, and even then he faces a tough fight against a taller, and naturally stronger man.
If the Beast boxes clever, he beats Roberto and maybe even by KO, providing he relaxes. Duran has got to damn cute to win a decision here

barry · Post by **barry** » 24 Dec 2006, 23:02

Mugabi won the WBC 154 belt. At this weight I think Mugabi would have absolutely destroyed Duran! Just too powerful a hitter and one that Duran would not be able to take his punches in the manner that he did agai8nst Barkley and Hagler. Mugabi would stop him rather quickly.

Now the post-Hagler Mugabi, Duran would probably beat, but the pre-Hagler Mugabi I think knocks out Duran in much the same manner as Hearns! Was Mugabi as good as Duran...certainly not, nowhere near Duran overall, but Mugabi had the kind of chilling power that could stop virtually anyone...except a fighter like Hagler and that first punch that landed clean usually just shocked the hell out of opponents and I think it would be very, very similar to the way that Duran's bout with Hearns went!! Mugabi KO 2!

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 25 Dec 2006, 04:40

Mugabi may have had chilling power, but I don't believe he necessarily would have KO'd Duran.

Yes, Hearns did that to Roberto, but Tommy is a different kind of fighter to Mugabi & I doubt that Hearns would have done that to Duran again, had they had a rematch.

Duran was a very good boxer & was very good at riding shots.

I think he would have outpointed or TKO'd Mugabi late on.

Nile4000 · Post by **Nile4000** » 17 Jan 2007, 10:48

Mugabi would tear Duran's head off in the fifth round.Too much power for him at this weight.

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 17 Jan 2007, 14:59

Sorry but Duran would give him a boxing lesson. Mugabi didn't hit that hard. What Mugabi had was stiffs in front of him to KO. Duran was just too good a boxer/counter puncher to have trouble with "The beast".

icejack · Post by **icejack** » 17 Jan 2007, 15:53

Duran ! big! on points. A very crafty fighter ,what Hagler couldnt do,nor could Mugabi!

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 17 Jan 2007, 17:08

I pick Duran on points or late rounds stoppage. The names in the win column on Mugabi's resume arent that impressive

Victor*KC · Post by **Victor*KC** » 17 Jan 2007, 20:07

He is overrated in this thread I don't think he would even go the distance Mugabi by KO Mid to late in the fight

el tigre del sur · Post by **el tigre del sur** » 17 Jan 2007, 20:59

Decagon wrote:Duran is so overrated above lightweight. At jr. middleweight and middleweight, what did he do aside from beating Davey Moore and Cuevas?

I'll bite.
He took Marvin Hagler to 15 hard rounds. The only one to do it whilst Hagler was champion.
He won the MW crown against a hard hitting champion in Barkley at the ripe old age of 38.
He beat Leonard in his prime at 147lbs.
He owned former champion Carlos Palomino at 147 just after he was champion and 27-2.
I'll agree Duran was his best at LW but to dismiss his accomplishments above 135 seems a bit churlish.

icejack · Post by **icejack** » 17 Jan 2007, 21:06

el tigre del sur wrote:
Decagon wrote:Duran is so overrated above lightweight. At jr. middleweight and middleweight, what did he do aside from beating Davey Moore and Cuevas?
I'll bite.
He took Marvin Hagler to 15 hard rounds. The only one to do it whilst Hagler was champion.
He won the MW crown against a hard hitting champion in Barkley at the ripe old age of 38.
He beat Leonard in his prime at 147lbs.
He owned former champion Carlos Palomino at 147 just after he was champion and 27-2.
I'll agree Duran was his best at LW but to dismiss his accomplishments above 135 seems a bit churlish.

Duran is a all time great ! Mugabi was a brilliantly managed puncher,there is no comparison! Duran as the guy above states did what no middleweight up till that time had done ,went 15 tough rounds with Hagler ,won the world jnr.middleweight title (remember ! a blown up lightweight) and I get the feeling if he was American you wouldnt be slagging the bloke off!

theone · Post by **theone** » 17 Jan 2007, 21:50

Duran is a all time great ! Mugabi was a brilliantly managed puncher,there is no comparison! Duran as the guy above states did what no middleweight up till that time had done ,went 15 tough rounds with Hagler ,won the world jnr.middleweight title (remember ! a blown up lightweight) and I get the feeling if he was American you wouldnt be slagging the bloke off!

He was also totally embarressed and made to quit against Leonard in the rematch, was blown away by Hearns in two rounds, and was outboxed by Kirkland laing and Robbie Simms.
And lets cut out the whole blown up lightweight stuff. Duran couldnt make that weight if he tried, probably as early as 1978.
His victorys for the Jr middle and middle titles were impressive, but lets not forget the opponents he won them against. Barkley was an overachieving clubber and from what I hear Moore, a 12 fight veteran, was so sick that night some of his own people bet against him. If anyone else heard about Moore's condition that night or if Ive been misinformed, please let me know.

icejack · Post by **icejack** » 17 Jan 2007, 21:54

He still was good enough to beat Lenord in the first place,Barkely was good enough to beat Hearns twice and Davey Moore was good enough to win the world title ,12 fights or not! Give the man respect,an all time great!

theone · Post by **theone** » 17 Jan 2007, 22:12

He still was good enough to beat Lenord in the first place,Barkely was good enough to beat Hearns twice and Davey Moore was good enough to win the world title ,12 fights or not! Give the man respect,an all time great!

I do repect him and agree he is an all time great. Just at times, a very overrated one.

Victor*KC · Post by **Victor*KC** » 18 Jan 2007, 00:45

Dec You sound like you think The fight was a robbery it was a close fight and the knockdown Duran scored Was the deciding Factor Moore was 12-0 and a 5-2 Favorite if I do remember correctly and has just won a bout against a former Champion Ayub Kalule

Victor*KC · Post by **Victor*KC** » 18 Jan 2007, 01:07

Of course im not defending that Statement

at best 3 Rounds

Don't Fvck around like that

Victor*KC · Post by **Victor*KC** » 18 Jan 2007, 01:43

It was a really close fight and alot rounds were hard to score I understand you haven't seen the fight in quite some time But I'll watch it right now..

icejack · Post by **icejack** » 18 Jan 2007, 07:09

Decagon wrote:At best, Duran won three rounds. He did not deserve the decision.

And are you really defending the statement, "Davey Moore was an all-time-great?" Please tell me so. I need a good laugh.

No one is saying Moore was world class but he was the title holder,you talk as if the bloke was a total stiff Duran is a world class legend ,really I guess its a bit pointless arguing over these points, the thread originally was could he have beaten Mugabi, the answer is YES! bY THE WAY Dec ! no pipe in my hands

icejack · Post by **icejack** » 18 Jan 2007, 07:11

Decagon wrote:
icejack wrote:Barkely was good enough to beat Hearns twice
Yeah. He also beat Duran. The judges thought they were giving Roberto a retirement present, but IRS leins made him fight on for almost another decade.
icejack wrote:Davey Moore was good enough to win the world title ,12 fights or not! Give the man respect,an all time great!
Not the world title, a world title. All-time-great? Davey Moore? Huh?!?!! Lay off the pipe.

Oh ! by the way ,I was talking about Duran being an all time great ! thought you would have sussed that my well informed friend

Senya13 · Post by **Senya13** » 18 Jan 2007, 08:09

Mugabi looked pretty good actually, I'd say he looked more skillful than say Julian Jackson or Nigel Benn. Including the post-Hagler period (up to 1991).

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 18 Jan 2007, 08:18

Mugabi wasnt as skillful as Nigel Benn, who developed into a very effective box-puncher after the first Eubank fight.
Mugabi would have a punchers chance against Duran, other than that its Duran all the way

Senya13 · Post by **Senya13** » 18 Jan 2007, 08:45

Benn never looked impressive as boxer-puncher (in commonly used meaning of this term). Mugabi's power punches were less predictable, IMHO.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 19 Jan 2007, 12:20

theone wrote:
Duran is a all time great ! Mugabi was a brilliantly managed puncher,there is no comparison! Duran as the guy above states did what no middleweight up till that time had done ,went 15 tough rounds with Hagler ,won the world jnr.middleweight title (remember ! a blown up lightweight) and I get the feeling if he was American you wouldnt be slagging the bloke off!
He was also totally embarressed and made to quit against Leonard in the rematch, was blown away by Hearns in two rounds, and was outboxed by Kirkland laing and Robbie Simms.
And lets cut out the whole blown up lightweight stuff. Duran couldnt make that weight if he tried, probably as early as 1978.
His victorys for the Jr middle and middle titles were impressive, but lets not forget the opponents he won them against. Barkley was an overachieving clubber and from what I hear Moore, a 12 fight veteran, was so sick that night some of his own people bet against him. If anyone e heard about Moore's condition that night or if Ive been misinformed, please let me know.

Well, name me a fighter that has had GREAT SUCCESS above his natural weight class.

I will give you 6: Duran, Robinson, Armstrong, Mickey Walker, Sam Langford and Ezzard Charles.

Who else??? not many.

It is very remarkable to see a guy that started his career as a bantamweight and winning titles in 4 different weight classes like Duran did, not to mention how he totally decimated the lightweight division like nobody did before or after him, and win a title at 38 years old being WASHED UP, in his 22nd year as a pro fighter, is kind of INCREDIBLE to anybody.

Wilfredo Gomez...great at super bantamweight...Goes up in weight and gets crushed by Salvador Sanchez...never again was the same.

Sugar Ray Leonard...oooohhhh the darling of the media, whose only loss was against a lightweight. Goes up in weight after his retina retirement and is not NEVER THE SAME GUY. Win against Hagler???QUESTIONABLE BY MANY. Won 2 titles in one night???What a gift!!! against who??? His own mother does not believe him.

Thomas Hearns...Won 4 titles in 4 different weight classes. In his natural weight, many saw him invicible until he meets Leonard. Crushes a WASHED UP DURAN, almost decapitated Manos de Piedra, but then, Marvelous Marvin eats him up like pac man. Was never the same after the Hagler fight, even though he was tall and lanky.

Alexis Arguello...great fighter...But was schooled by Vilomar Fernandez and the fight with Duran FAILED to materialized. Got beat by Aaron Pryor twice...end of story. It was not Arguello's time nor weight class.

Marvin Hagler....NEVER WENT UP on wieght...Do you think he was a greater fighter than Duran because he beats a washed up legend by decision and kos the man that kod the legend??? Why he did not go up in weight and challenged Dwight Braxton or Michael Spinks???

Carlos Monzon...Awesome at 160, never lost in his last 81 fights of his life, BUT NEVER WENT UP TO 175. Bob Foster probably was waiting for him.

Archie Moore...went up to heavyweight and could not win the big one. Ezzard Charles schooled him 3 times. The last time by KO. At 175 as a champ, was terrific, but he was probably too old to demonstrate his greater talent. Ooohhhh, in his prime was beaten by Charley Burley, Shorty Hogue (3 times), and Charles...Duran in his prime ONLY loss was against Esteban DeJesus.

Wilfred Benitez...Did good going up on weight...Loss to Leonard in the biggest fight of his career. Lost to Hearns fighting like a chicken. Beat a washed up Duran, which it was his last hurrah, and almost got KILLED by the man that you considered him a good fighter: Davey Moore.

Ruben Olivares: Awesome at bantamweight. But at 126 gets KOd by Arguello.

Jose Napoles: Awesome at welter...Goes up in weight, and Monzon whips him like a boy.

Carlos Ortiz: Awesome at lightweight. NO more awesome in no other wieght class.

Stanley Ketchel: awesome at 160. Dies too young.

Terry McGovern...awesome at 118...awesome at 126...But somehow got thrashed by Young Corbett..end of story...

Ike Williams....the best lightweight of the 40s somehow lost to Bob Montgomery. In his prime, was awesome...Beat Kid Gavilan, but loses to the same guy TWICE after that.... Beyond 135, did not do anything else.

Harry Greb....Did well against Gene Tunney in first fight...loses to the same in 2 times after that. Fought heavys and lightheavys, guys that I do not see in the Hall of Fame ledger...I give anybody some props if any body can mention a fighter besides Tunney that he beat over middleweight and is in the hall of fame....At least Duran beat 4 hall of famers going up in weight: Leonard, Palomino, Cuevas and Barkley.

Willie Pep...awesome at 126...Like Duran in his weight class, UNBEATABLE AT FEATHERWIGHT...goes to lightweight and finds out that that weight class is not his...Sammy Angott made him see REALITY.

Felix "Tito" Trinidad...Made 15 title defenses at welterweight...OOOhhh we forgot that he got schooled by Oscar DeLahoya, his quality of opposition at 147 was MEDIOCRE at best, could not match Duran's at lightweight in terms of quality of opposition...Gets an ass kicking by a middleweight and then loses to a boxer by a ONLY A JAB in Winky Wright???...ooohhh how great he was!!!

Floyd Mayweather Jr....Has totally dominated the jr lightweight class....We got to remember that Castillo, Gatti, Baldomir, nor Judah are not in the class of Carlos Palomino, not much less in the class of Sugar Ray...

I have studied the careers of almost every ALL TIME GREAT IN HISTORY, and to see Duran's accomplishments, and to call it overrated is a slap to the face to me. If Duran was OVERRATED so was Mayweather, Tito or Leonard. Wiith the exception of Archie Moore and Hearns, Not of them above lasted no more than 20 years in the ring like Duran did. Even in his 22nd year as a pro, Duran was still competitive, even when he was washed up and at 37 years of age, an age that people got to hang the gloves, he wins the middleweight title??? THAT IS fornicating AWESOME!!! NO MATTER HOW WE LOOK AT IT.

Name me another fighter that did better than Sam Langford, Mickey Walker, Duran, Armstrong, Robinson or Charles above their natural weight class.... Not many.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 19 Jan 2007, 12:48

theone wrote:
Duran is a all time great ! Mugabi was a brilliantly managed puncher,there is no comparison! Duran as the guy above states did what no middleweight up till that time had done ,went 15 tough rounds with Hagler ,won the world jnr.middleweight title (remember ! a blown up lightweight) and I get the feeling if he was American you wouldnt be slagging the bloke off!
He was also totally embarressed and made to quit against Leonard in the rematch, was blown away by Hearns in two rounds, and was outboxed by Kirkland laing and Robbie Simms.
And lets cut out the whole blown up lightweight stuff. Duran couldnt make that weight if he tried, probably as early as 1978.
His victorys for the Jr middle and middle titles were impressive, but lets not forget the opponents he won them against. Barkley was an overachieving clubber and from what I hear Moore, a 12 fight veteran, was so sick that night some of his own people bet against him. If anyone else heard about Moore's condition that night or if Ive been misinformed, please let me know.

Even if, as you say, he couldn't make the weight, that doesn't make him a natural welter. Anyone moving up in weight is at a disadvanatge, especially fighters who rely on strength.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 19 Jan 2007, 13:17

Duran got losses against Hagler, Leonard, Benitez and Hearns and is like a detracting factor in his magnificent record. But some people tend to forget that the majority of those losses were when:

1. Duran was TOTALLY Out of his weight class
2. Duran was already washed up after the second Leonard fight.
3. Duran had more than 13 years fighting as a pro before losing to Leonard.

Any fighter that goes up in weight to fight another great fighter, 90 or 99% of the time, the bigger fighter wins. That is a FACT we cannot deny. A big and talented great fighter beats a small great fighter. We see it thorugh history. Duran is HUMAN like nobody else. He got right to lose like any body else.

Afer the second fight with Leonard, The No Mas match, Duran never had the fire nor the skills that he had at welterweight or lightweight. His next 2 fights before Benitez, were TOTALLY AWFUL. HE LOOKED WASHED UP. His reflexes and head movement were not there, neither his speed , that it was Duran's most underrated asset...speed.

Not many fighters after 13 years in the ring keep winning, specially when the fighter has to go up in weight and is over 30 years old. Once you hit 30, you lose some speed, that is the first thing you lose as a fighter, and with Duran was not an exception. That happened even to the very best ones: Sugar Ray Robinson after 30 and after 13 years in the ring, started losing more and more. The same with Willie Pep, Muhammad Ali and a lot of the great ones.

Not only I rated fighters when they were awesome in their primes, but also I rate them when they were not the same or when a fighter is washed up, how did he do in that period of mediocricity. Even Rocky Marciano would have lost in time if he kept fighting over 30 and with more than 10 years in the ring. It looks to me that after 10 years in the ring, is like an average for a fighter to not to be in his prime and start to lose.

Duran, not only was washed up, but overweight fighting the likes of Hagler and Hearns. I would have love to see Hagler fighting Michael Spinks or Dwight Braxton at 175 being Hagler 32 or 33 years old Would he win then? Likely not.

The other thing that made Duran great that he came back BIG when NOBODY gave him a chance. He did it with Davey Moore after nobody believed in him from the NO MAS, and he did it AGAIN when he was at 37 fighting a bigger and younger and stronger in Iran Barkley, being washed up and all. I have never seen that in boxing. Never will. All that happened when he was totally decapitated in two rounds by Hearns. THAT IS REMARKABLE...I dinot have no other words to describe it.