1. Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Joe Walcott
4. Kid Gavilan
5. Jose Napoles
6. Sugar Ray Leonard
7. Emile Griffith
8. Thomas Hearns
9. Wilfredo Benitez
10. Pipino Cuevas
11. Carmen Basilo
12. Roberto Duran
13. Jack Britton
14. Dixie Kid
15. Mickey Walker
16. Luis Rodriguez
17. Ted Kid Lewis
18. Barney Ross
19. jIMMY Mclarnin
20. Tommy Ryan
This is my list of the best Welterweight champs, some of the rankings are real close like all lists, all views welcomed!..... as long as they are intelligent and polite!...
Joe Walcott - Don't know too much about him but too high
Kid Gavilan - I would trade him spots with Leonard
Question Do you Rank fighters on just what did they did at Welterweight? or if they moved up and won titles at MW and LW
I'm ranking them as Welterweights mainly, Duran is high because the Duran who beat Leonard would have beaten a lot of the other top Welters.... the guys I rated over Leonard I think did more at Welterweight than Leonard, plus I think they could have beaten him... Gavilan and Napoles both had the beating of Leonard imo....
and Cuevas was awesome in his prime, far better than most people rate him these days, most people just remember the losses to Hearns and Duran....
Decagon wrote:Why is Leonard so low, given that he's the only fighter on your list to beat multiple top-10 fighters in their respective primes? And why's Walker so low? His reign at 147 was short, but - duh - so was Roberto Duran's.
Where's Charley Burley?
Where's Pernell Whitaker?
Duh!... most people know that Walker was better at the higher weight than he was at 147... dont you know anything about fighters pre 80s??...
Overall a pretty decent list. The glaring mistake is Cuevas. He never beat anyone that every other guy on this list wouldn't have easily, and lost to some that no one else would have.
Little surprised that Barney Ross is only #18 and McClarnin are only #19. Both should be in the top 10.
No surprise that Leonard is rated too low, he often is on this forum. Armstrong, Gavilan, and Naploes are all rated higher than Leonard.
Armstrong beat only one guy on this list, Gavilan only one guy, Naploes didn't beat anyone on this list. Leonard beat three guys on this list, yet they "achieved more"? :(
Walcott is difficult to evaluate. He had some big wins against good fighters that were bigger than him, but he lost several times to guys in his own weight class that weren't that good. # 3 is a stretch.
Agree that Walker was a better middleweight than welterweight.
Ambling Alp wrote:Overall a pretty decent list. The glaring mistake is Cuevas. He never beat anyone that every other guy on this list wouldn't have easily, and lost to some that no one else would have.
Little surprised that Barney Ross is only #18 and McClarnin are only #19. Both should be in the top 10.
No surprise that Leonard is rated too low, he often is on this forum. Armstrong, Gavilan, and Naploes are all rated higher than Leonard.
Armstrong beat only one guy on this list, Gavilan only one guy, Naploes didn't beat anyone on this list. Leonard beat three guys on this list, yet they "achieved more"? :(
Walcott is difficult to evaluate. He had some big wins against good fighters that were bigger than him, but he lost several times to guys in his own weight class that weren't that good. # 3 is a stretch.
Agree that Walker was a better middleweight than welterweight.
Cuevas destroyed Gray, Ranzany, and Weston... all of whom were outstanding boxers... Weston gave Benitez and Hearns hell... Napoles and Gavilan fought a lot of outstanding fighters in their own right, Robinson said that Gavilan was the hardest fighter he ever faced, Gavilan would probably have been champ from the mid-40s had Robinson not been around... Napoles could have been champ years earlier had he got a shot and was already 28 and probably past his best by the time he took the title... looking at their overall careers I just think both Napoles and Gavilan pip Leonard and would have had the styles to beat him, though I'm not saying they wouldnt be very tough fights...
For the 6th Spot it was hard to pick but I gave it to Emile I think He could beat Napoles with both at their Prime
Napoles was a great technician but was never really a strong fighter fighters that Troubled Griffith that like to hold alot mostly Paret, Rodriguez I do agree That Jose was a very slick fighter at close range and would probaly make Griffith miss alot but he didn't hold alot and unlike them Napoles liked to Throw punches at close quarters which would suit Griffith more
For the 6th Spot it was hard to pick but I gave it to Emile I think He could beat Napoles with both at their Prime
Napoles was a great technician but was never really a strong fighter fighters that Troubled Griffith that like to hold alot mostly Paret, Rodriguez I do agree That Jose was a very slick fighter at close range and would probaly make Griffith miss alot but he didn't hold alot and unlike them Napoles liked to Throw punches at close quarters which would suit Griffith more
Well Napoles did fight Griffith in the late 60s and he totally outboxed him.... Napoles could box or brawl depending on his mood and opponent... his biggest weakness was his suseptibility to cuts but these mainly occured when he was into his 30s and past his prime, at around his peak he was pretty much unbeatable...
Decagon wrote:Why is Leonard so low, given that he's the only fighter on your list to beat multiple top-10 fighters in their respective primes? And why's Walker so low? His reign at 147 was short, but - duh - so was Roberto Duran's.
Where's Charley Burley?
Where's Pernell Whitaker?
Where's your list?...we'd all like to take some shots at it...kind of like you do...
Decagon wrote:Why is Leonard so low, given that he's the only fighter on your list to beat multiple top-10 fighters in their respective primes? And why's Walker so low? His reign at 147 was short, but - duh - so was Roberto Duran's.
Where's Charley Burley?
Where's Pernell Whitaker?
Where's your list?...we'd all like to take some shots at it...kind of like you do...
aT school Dec was probably one of those guys always picking fault with the other guys willies in the showers while hiding his own under his towel!...
I am aware of that fight But he'd been fighting at Middleweight for FIVE years and then came in overtrained and weighing 144 for the fight against Mantequilla. That has to make a big difference.
I don't think that fight is much of a representation of a prime WELTER Griffith.
Robinson
Armstrong
Leonard
Hearns
Walker
Ross
McClarnin
Napoles
Gavilan
Emile Griffith
Duran
Whitaker
Zivic
Basilio
Benitez
Jack Britton
Kid Lewis
Palomino
Cuevas
Luis Rodriguez
I dont like to make a comment on a top twenty or top ten list unless I can come up with one of my own.
Not trying to hijack the thread Silk.
Your list is solid.
I had to get Zivic in there.
Sugar Ray Leonard would have beaten all the others in the poll, with the exception, possibly of Henry Armstrong, who like Duran, if he could have forced SRL into a brawl, may have decisioned him.
Cuevas not only was humilated when he fought Hearns, he also lost to Andy Price right before he Cuevas won the title, and Roger Stafford. Both were good fighters, but nothing special.
I don't see how you can possibly compare Cuevas' big wins (Clyde Gray,Pete Ranzany, and Harold Weston) to what what many of the fighters rated behind Cuevas did.
Basilio - Beat Kid Gavilan, and had some nice wins over DeMarco and Saxton.
Duran - Beat Leonard and Palomino.
Britton- Beat Lewis
Rodriquez - Beat Griffith once, lost 3 close decisions to Griffith. Also beat Paret.
Lewis- Beat Britton.
Ross- Beat McClarnin twice.
McClarnin- Beat Ross and Young Corbett.
Basilio, Duran, Britton, Rodriquez, Lewis, Ross, and McClarnin all would have beaten Cuevas head to head at least 4 out of 5 times.
There are many other guys that were better than Cuevas a swell.
I agree with everyone that Robinson was the best welterweight, but he wasn't head and shoulders above everone else.
Robinson didn't win every fight easily. He had a lot of trouble with Gavilan, Tommy Bell was competitive with him, and he barely beat Marty Servo.
On a given night, there were a few other welterweights in history that could have beaten Robinson. Having said that, I would bet on Robinson against anyone.
