Lennox Lewis

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 28 Dec 2006, 03:25

Most people when they hear Lennox Lewis’s name come up instantly start branding him as being ‘not good enough’ and that the majority of Heavyweight champions before him would have destroyed him. I don’t think this is at all an accurate portrayal of a man who dominated the mid late 90’s up until 2004.

In many ways Lennox Lewis reminds me so much of Larry Holmes, in the aspect that both men were so dominant yet received so little respect in their eras. It is safe to say now that Larry Holmes is a top 10 heavyweight champion, but in the 80’s he was considered a ‘paper champion’ and not in the class of Ali, whom he had the misfortune of following.

The same could be said of Lennox Lewis, and his parting words of ‘History will judge me far more kindly than my critics’ might just be prophetic, as were Larry Holmes words of saying that he was on equal ground with any of the great champions before him.

Let’s look at the men Lennox Lewis beat:

-Evander Holyfield (was robbed in their first fight with a draw) 1x
-Mike Tyson (sure Tyson wasn’t who he was but never late than never)
-Shannon Briggs (who won the ‘lineal’ title over Foreman)
-Ray Mercer (former WBO champion)
-Oliver McCall (avenges loss in stunning fashion)
-Razor Ruddock
-Hasim Rahman (avenges loss in stunning fashion)
-Andrew Golota
-Frank Bruno (former WBA champion)
-Michael Grant
-David Tua
-Frans Botha
-Tony Tucker (former IBF champion)
-Tyrell Biggs (Olympic Gold Medalist)
-Tommy Morrison (former WBO champion)
-Henry Akinwande
-Mike Weaver (former WBA champion)
-Gary Mason (British rival and British Champion)
-Zeljko Mavoric (European Heavyweight champion)

Hell, if VH1 did a special on Lennox Lewis it would be ‘I Beat The Hell Out of The 90’s’

Sure hold it against him if you want that he never fought Riddick Bowe, hold it against him that he never did have a rematch with Vitali Klitschko and hell hold it against him if you want that the man was cocky and arrogant and that he was often boring to watch as he preferred jabs over hooks; but you can’t over look the record of who he beat.

This man was, like Holmes, universally considered the ‘true’ Heavyweight champion of the world, even if he didn’t hold all the title(s) all of the time. Two times the WBC champion, 1x WBA champion, 1x IBF champion. Hold it against him that he ‘threw away’ the IBF title and refused to fight John Ruiz and had the WBA title stripped of him, but can you sincerely picture any man honestly having a chance against him?

He had virtually no one left to fight with the exception of Bowe, Vitali Klitschko (again), Kirk Johnson, John Ruiz, Kirk Johnson, Chris Byrd, Wladimir Klitschko and Roy Jones, Jr. Out of all those men listed the only one who could stand a chance would have been Klitschko and Bowe, and I don’t honestly see Klitschko winning because Lewis, whether you like him or not, like Joe Louis, was death in rematches and Bowe wouldn’t do any better.

Make no mistake, this man is an all-time great, though I must admit, I wouldn’t personally rank him inside the top 10 of all time, but surely a top 15.

George Foreman- Ranks Lennox Lewis as being greater than Muhammad Ali with all his size, skill and speed [Ring Magazine, ‘I’ll End The Tyson Freak Show’ issue].

Mike Tyson- ‘I could never have beaten him (Lewis), even at my best.’

Diamond WEAPON · Post by **Diamond WEAPON** » 28 Dec 2006, 04:05

I can't believe Foreman and Tyson actually said that, as I believe both a prime Ali and a Prime Tyson would've beat a Prime Lewis...

Anyway I do agree that Lewis was underrated for a while and he is definitely one of the greatest HW ever, I'd probably put him in top 15.

But the only thing stunning about his victory over McCall was how fuckin nuts McCall went when he got taken out of drug rehab to fight and started crying in the ring.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 28 Dec 2006, 06:35

Lewis can't be faulted for not fighting Bowe - Bowe gave up a title not to fight him, and Riddick's prime was astonishingly short.

In fact, at one time or other Bowe, Tyson and Holyfield ducked him, the latter 'Humble Warrior' tried to get fights with everyone before Lewis - including the 6'7 octopus Akinwande, a fight in South Africa with Botha etc.

Lewis to me is a top 10 heavyweight. He is badly neglected - in spite of 16 title defences and some devastating KO wins (Grant, Botha, Ruddock, Golota, Rahman), although he did suffer two KO losses himself.

Re the idea that Lewis couldn't have beaten past heavyweight greats, that's a very reactionary viewpoint - his immense size & power, coupled with classy boxing skills would make him a nightmare for just about any heavyweight in history, and there's no way a Demsey, Marciano or Frazier could get close to him.

Lewis seems to have a considerable fear factor about him. Golota was apparently hyperventilating before their fight; Ruddock was told to "hush your mouth" at a press conference and complied; Akinwande wouldn't let go; McCall, realising every time he tried to rush Lewis he'd walk into a MASSIVE shot, had a breakdown...does anyone see a pattern here?

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 28 Dec 2006, 06:42

Diamond WEAPON wrote:I can't believe Foreman and Tyson actually said that, as I believe both a prime Ali and a Prime Tyson would've beat a Prime Lewis...

Anyway I do agree that Lewis was underrated for a while and he is definitely one of the greatest HW ever, I'd probably put him in top 15.

But the only thing stunning about his victory over McCall was how fuckin nuts McCall went when he got taken out of drug rehab to fight and started crying in the ring.

I can believe that Tyson & Foreman said that, especially Tyson.

Tyson has studied boxing history more closely than any other fighter & he isn't stupid.

He knows deep down that he could never have beaten a man like Lewis.

He certainly would have had a chance, but he knows that when LL was fit & focused, he was a damn hard fighter to beat.

icejack · Post by **icejack** » 28 Dec 2006, 07:28

Lewis was hated and rubbished in America mainly for one reason . . . .he wasnt American! Lewis was a very very dangerous opponent for any former champ.Apart from Ali, Louis and possibly a peak Foreman /Tyson I think Lewis would have blitzed the rest.

RazorKO · Post by **RazorKO** » 28 Dec 2006, 08:07

icejack wrote:Lewis was hated and rubbished in America mainly for one reason . . . .he wasnt American! Lewis was a very very dangerous opponent for any former champ.Apart from Ali, Louis and possibly a peak Foreman /Tyson I think Lewis would have blitzed the rest.

What a load of crap. Lewis wasnt hated because he wasnt American, he was not portrayed as a great fighter because the man was not only knocked out once. but twice! And twice by 2 journeymen! He lost against fighters at the top but was given the benifet of the doubt (Holy II), people cry robbery at the first match but the rematch was just as horrific decision. He was outjabbed by Bruno, outjabbed/outbrawled by Mercer, stunned by Tucker, floored by Akiwande and shook up by Briggs.

42 year old overweight and out of shape Holmes won every round against Mercer, Peak Lewis however had to fight for his life against him - a man who lost to Fergusson who, a brave fighter was no world beater.

Absolutley no excuse for being knocked out by two hapless one punch wonder journeymen.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 28 Dec 2006, 08:13

RazorKO wrote:
icejack wrote:Lewis was hated and rubbished in America mainly for one reason . . . .he wasnt American! Lewis was a very very dangerous opponent for any former champ.Apart from Ali, Louis and possibly a peak Foreman /Tyson I think Lewis would have blitzed the rest.
What a load of crap. Lewis wasnt hated because he wasnt American, he was not portrayed as a great fighter because the man was not only knocked out once. but twice! And twice by 2 journeymen! He lost against fighters at the top but was given the benifet of the doubt (Holy II), people cry robbery at the first match but the rematch was just as horrific decision. He was outjabbed by Bruno, outjabbed/outbrawled by Mercer, stunned by Tucker, floored by Akiwande and shook up by Briggs.

42 year old overweight and out of shape Holmes won every round against Mercer, Peak Lewis however had to fight for his life against him - a man who lost to Fergusson who, a brave fighter was no world beater.

Absolutley no excuse for being knocked out by two hapless one punch wonder journeymen.

Doesn't say much for Razor Ruddock then.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 28 Dec 2006, 10:02

RazorKO wrote:
icejack wrote:Lewis was hated and rubbished in America mainly for one reason . . . .he wasnt American! Lewis was a very very dangerous opponent for any former champ.Apart from Ali, Louis and possibly a peak Foreman /Tyson I think Lewis would have blitzed the rest.
What a load of crap. Lewis wasnt hated because he wasnt American, he was not portrayed as a great fighter because the man was not only knocked out once. but twice! And twice by 2 journeymen! He lost against fighters at the top but was given the benifet of the doubt (Holy II), people cry robbery at the first match but the rematch was just as horrific decision. He was outjabbed by Bruno, outjabbed/outbrawled by Mercer, stunned by Tucker, floored by Akiwande and shook up by Briggs.

42 year old overweight and out of shape Holmes won every round against Mercer, Peak Lewis however had to fight for his life against him - a man who lost to Fergusson who, a brave fighter was no world beater.

Absolutley no excuse for being knocked out by two hapless one punch wonder journeymen.

Rahman and McCall were big punchers who landed massive shots with some hefty weight behind them. In fact they were perfect shots that would've decked anyone...and yet Lewis defeated them with ease in rematches.

To put MERCER in context, Mercer decided he was "going to learn how to box" after the Holmes fight...and he certainly did (see also the Holyfield and 'Spoon fights).

Do you hold it against Tommy Hearns for being stopped by Barkley (& totally outworked in a rematch)? Or that Napoles was stopped by Billy Backus? Elite fighters can lose to lesser fighters, if they get caught with the wrong shot, lose discipline, turn up out of shape.

I don't see how Lewis-Holyfield II was a "horrific decision". Was it "horrific" because too many ppl NEEDED Evander to win? Evander had 4 good rounds & about 7 or 8 bad ones, LMAO.

Ppl go out of their way to deny Lewis & focus on nothing but the bad elements. If he - GOD FORBID! - struggles, then it means he's a bum. If a fight is close, it naturally means he lost the fight.

Getting knocked out doesn't mean a fighter cannot be great. If KOs are the be all and end all, then I think that Lewis' KOs of big bastards Ruddock, Morrison, Golota (well regarded post Bowe), Briggs (future titlist), Grant (hyped by American media), Bruno (TKO), Klitschko (TKO) are a ample counter-balance.

If Lewis wasn't The Man, then who was? After all he did from '95-03, you must be a hard man to please in lieu of today's crop of juggernauts!

Yep, what he achieved don't mean a goddamn motherf*&^%n American sheeet

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 28 Dec 2006, 15:37

Razor KO's hatred of Lennox is well documented.....

It's on the same level as Edesscams hatred of anything Wlad,so I would'nt pay much attention to his nonsense.

Lewis,fit and focused,would have been a nightmare for any heavyweight in history.
Top 10 heavyweight,no doubt.

generic screen name · Post by **generic screen name** » 28 Dec 2006, 16:02

Theres no doubt that Lewis is a hall of famer. Its just hard to rate him using his resume. He doesn't really have a signature win or rival. It wasn't all his fault, in the mid 90's Bowe ducked him, Evander was looking to regain the title, and Tyson wasn't going to go near him during his comeback.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 28 Dec 2006, 16:58

Decagon wrote:
viciousmaussa wrote:Riddick's prime was astonishingly short.
Yeah, one fight.

Wasn't it two?

monkeybusiness · Post by **monkeybusiness** » 28 Dec 2006, 18:35

I actually think it's wrong to say that Lewis is always attacked when these posts come up on him. I'm a big Lewis fan and I think the majority are actaully quite fair to him. I think he was under-rated when he was active but in retirment people have come to appreciate his achievements more-particulalrly due to the current heavyweight pool.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 29 Dec 2006, 06:35

viciousmaussa wrote: What a load of crap. Lewis wasnt hated because he wasnt American, he was not portrayed as a great fighter because the man was not only knocked out once. but twice! And twice by 2 journeymen! He lost against fighters at the top but was given the benifet of the doubt (Holy II), people cry robbery at the first match but the rematch was just as horrific decision. He was outjabbed by Bruno, outjabbed/outbrawled by Mercer, stunned by Tucker, floored by Akiwande and shook up by Briggs.

42 year old overweight and out of shape Holmes won every round against Mercer, Peak Lewis however had to fight for his life against him - a man who lost to Fergusson who, a brave fighter was no world beater.

Absolutley no excuse for being knocked out by two hapless one punch wonder journeymen.

Rahman and McCall were big punchers who landed massive shots with some hefty weight behind them. In fact they were perfect shots that would've decked anyone...and yet Lewis defeated them with ease in rematches.

To put MERCER in context, Mercer decided he was "going to learn how to box" after the Holmes fight...and he certainly did (see also the Holyfield and 'Spoon fights).

Do you hold it against Tommy Hearns for being stopped by Barkley (& totally outworked in a rematch)? Or that Napoles was stopped by Billy Backus? Elite fighters can lose to lesser fighters, if they get caught with the wrong shot, lose discipline, turn up out of shape.

I don't see how Lewis-Holyfield II was a "horrific decision". Was it "horrific" because too many ppl NEEDED Evander to win? Evander had 4 good rounds & about 7 or 8 bad ones, LMAO.

Ppl go out of their way to deny Lewis & focus on nothing but the bad elements. If he - GOD FORBID! - struggles, then it means he's a bum. If a fight is close, it naturally means he lost the fight.

Getting knocked out doesn't mean a fighter cannot be great. If KOs are the be all and end all, then I think that Lewis' KOs of big bastards Ruddock, Morrison, Golota (well regarded post Bowe), Briggs (future titlist), Grant (hyped by American media), Bruno (TKO), Klitschko (TKO) are a ample counter-balance.

If Lewis wasn't The Man, then who was? After all he did from '95-03, you must be a hard man to please in lieu of today's crop of juggernauts!

Yep, what he achieved don't mean a goddamn motherf*&^%n American sheeet[/quote]

Well said Maussa!

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 29 Dec 2006, 06:40

LL was without doubt going to be a hard fight for any man because of his size, and his punch. But to be rated alongside Louis, Ali, Marciano, Frazier
and Foreman, you cannot be clean KO'd by two
very ordinary fighters. Ali and Foreman and Dempsey etc had the chins and reccuperative skills that set them apart from Lewis. Lewis certainly has the arsenal to take out any man should he get it right, but he cannot take a good heavy shot like the others and I think Bowe would have knocked him out as a PRO!!!

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 29 Dec 2006, 07:39

yiddo14 wrote:Razor KO's hatred of Lennox is well documented.....
It's on the same level as Edesscams hatred of anything Wlad,so I would'nt pay much attention to his nonsense.

Lewis,fit and focused,would have been a nightmare for any heavyweight in history.
Top 10 heavyweight,no doubt.

He does seem to have some vendetta against Lewis & does not judge Lennox in the same way as his beloved Donovan Ruddock.

RazorKO was recently making excuses for Ruddock's slaughter at the hands of Lewis, saying that the British crowds booing of Razor led to his downfall!

When Lewis gets beaten, he is a poor fighter who lost to journeymen!

By all mean, knock Lennox for his poor defeats, but judge Razor in the same manner.

If Lewis is such poor fighter, then Ruddock is a downright embarrassment.

Ruddock couldn't box, had no stamina, was one dimensional & had an average chin.

His only plus point is the flawed smash punch, in which he had to carry his hand low in order to deliver it & his heart.

icejack · Post by **icejack** » 29 Dec 2006, 08:06

Perhaps Razorko hates Britain as well as lewis! To be fair it hurts to see your favourite fighter smashed out in two rounds (lucky we aint talking about Gerrie Coetzee and his one round blow out against Bruno!!)

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 29 Dec 2006, 08:33

Decagon wrote:Holyfield I and what else?

You've got a point. I was thinking Holyfield 3, but due to Holy's condition, that fight's not really worth mentioning...

RazorKO · Post by **RazorKO** » 29 Dec 2006, 15:28

Syntax Error wrote:
RazorKO wrote:
icejack wrote:Lewis was hated and rubbished in America mainly for one reason . . . .he wasnt American! Lewis was a very very dangerous opponent for any former champ.Apart from Ali, Louis and possibly a peak Foreman /Tyson I think Lewis would have blitzed the rest.
What a load of crap. Lewis wasnt hated because he wasnt American, he was not portrayed as a great fighter because the man was not only knocked out once. but twice! And twice by 2 journeymen! He lost against fighters at the top but was given the benifet of the doubt (Holy II), people cry robbery at the first match but the rematch was just as horrific decision. He was outjabbed by Bruno, outjabbed/outbrawled by Mercer, stunned by Tucker, floored by Akiwande and shook up by Briggs.

42 year old overweight and out of shape Holmes won every round against Mercer, Peak Lewis however had to fight for his life against him - a man who lost to Fergusson who, a brave fighter was no world beater.

Absolutley no excuse for being knocked out by two hapless one punch wonder journeymen.
Doesn't say much for Razor Ruddock then.

Syntax, you probably know my stance on the Ruddock-Lewis fight, but cast the booing and the dispicable treatment Ruddock receieved from these so called 'Fans' aside, Ruddock was basically a ruined fighter from those brutal 2 fights with Tyson.
Tyson was the fighter who took the fight out of Ruddock and by the time he fought Lewis, the Tyson fights have zapped him. Put Lewis in with the Ruddock of the Dokes/Bonecrusher fight and you will see a much different fight.

icejack · Post by **icejack** » 29 Dec 2006, 15:47

Your in a dream world mate! Ruddock was a decent fighter with a big punch ,I really dont understand why Lewis in your mind is crap and Ruddock was so good. Crowds dont spook great fighters (Hagler v Minter for example).

RazorKO · Post by **RazorKO** » 29 Dec 2006, 15:52

Maussa, I appericate the fact that you took a long time to write your post but I have to disagree with almost all your points.

Rahman and McCall were big punchers who landed massive shots with some hefty weight behind them. In fact they were perfect shots that would've decked anyone...and yet Lewis defeated them with ease in rematches

Its still no excuse for an alleged 'Great' fighter like Lewis not to be knocked out by one journeyman, but two. To be great you have to be able to take a punch, Lewis had such an awful chin as well as defense that he was even fighting for his life against Shannon Briggs in the first round. Larry Holmes however - He is what you call a GREAT fighter, he not only got up from that Shavers shot in the rematch, but he got up to win by KO.

Lewis shouldnt of been in that position to revenge these fights anyway because great fighters just do not get knocked out by the likes of Rahman and McCall. Lewis is a good fighter, but great fighter? Absolutley not.

Do you hold it against Tommy Hearns for being stopped by Barkley (& totally outworked in a rematch)?

Of course not, as Hearns has proven himself to be a great fighter and he was getting past it anyway when he fought Barkley. But Barkley was no journeyman, he was one of the toughest fighters you'll ever see (watch the Duran-Barkley fight and you will see his courage) You cant compare a 3 time champ like Barkley who had the skills to be on top than one punch wonders McCall and Rahman who got to the top by landing a single blow on a brittle chined fighter.

don't see how Lewis-Holyfield II was a "horrific decision". Was it "horrific" because too many ppl NEEDED Evander to win? Evander had 4 good rounds & about 7 or 8 bad ones, LMAO

Lewis-Holy II wasnt as bad decision as Lewis-Mercer but it ranks up there as a big time robbery. Like Mercer, an old blown up Holyfield outworked his lumbering opponent, outjabbed him and outfought him. Holyfield deserved the decision like Mercer deserved his but was robbed blindly by the pro-Lewis judges.

Ppl go out of their way to deny Lewis & focus on nothing but the bad elements

Ill give you this for Lewis he could punch.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 29 Dec 2006, 15:59

RazorKO wrote: Put Lewis in with the Ruddock of the Dokes/Bonecrusher fight and you will see a much different fight.

You are aware that Smith had won less than half of his previous 12 fights and wasn’t exactly at his peak when they fought. And I don’t think we even need to discuss Dokes condition in 1990.

RazorKO · Post by **RazorKO** » 29 Dec 2006, 16:00

icejack wrote:Your in a dream world mate! Ruddock was a decent fighter with a big punch ,I really dont understand why Lewis in your mind is crap and Ruddock was so good. Crowds dont spook great fighters (Hagler v Minter for example).

I think Lewis is a good fighter, but definetly not a great one. Its an insult to mention someone like Lewis in the same sentance as other great fighters i.e Holmes, Ali. Foreman, Louis, Tyson, Fraizer etc.

Lewis has definetly achieved more than Ruddock as Ruddock never won the title, nor even fought for the title. But Lewis caught Ruddock at the right time and definetly at the right place - If you fight in the Lions den you fight by the lions rules.

Lewis has never been in the wars like Ruddock has been in either.

cosand · Post by **cosand** » 29 Dec 2006, 17:54

Took 2 tries to beat Mccall and Rahman, beat a decomposed Tyson, and a fosilized Mike Weaver, got a christams and birthday all rolled into one with the stoppage against Vitali Klitschko, neglected to fight Bowe, and didnt bother to stick around for the Russian invasion.

Yes, so he beat.....

-Andrew Golota ( oh my !)
-Frank Bruno ( who didnt?)
-Michael Grant (LOL)
-Frans Botha ( so?)
-Tony Tucker (so did Herbie Hide)
-Tyrell Biggs ( and ?)
-Tommy Morrison (so did Micheal Bentt)
-Henry Akinwande (it's only getting worse)
-Gary Mason (yaaawn)
-Zeljko Mavoric (zzzzzzzz)

You are joking right ? Beating these guys is the minimum requirment for respectabilty, hardly a sign of greatness.

Lewis was a good fighter in a period of so-so HWs, but there was no "Lewis era".
If one were to be very generous, Lewis might fit in the bottom 10 of a top 50 all time list

icejack · Post by **icejack** » 29 Dec 2006, 19:04

hes not been in wars like Ruddock because he was a better ,and more skilled fighter. Lewis would have given any champion of the past one of their toughest fights but I suppose if you have made your mind up Lewis is not a great ,there is no point going on about it

icejack · Post by **icejack** » 29 Dec 2006, 19:07

cosand wrote:Took 2 tries to beat Mccall and Rahman, beat a decomposed Tyson, and a fosilized Mike Weaver, got a christams and birthday all rolled into one with the stoppage against Vitali Klitschko, neglected to fight Bowe, and didnt bother to stick around for the Russian invasion.

Yes, so he beat.....

-Andrew Golota ( oh my !)
-Frank Bruno ( who didnt?)
-Michael Grant (LOL)
-Frans Botha ( so?)
-Tony Tucker (so did Herbie Hide)
-Tyrell Biggs ( and ?)
-Tommy Morrison (so did Micheal Bentt)
-Henry Akinwande (it's only getting worse)
-Gary Mason (yaaawn)
-Zeljko Mavoric (zzzzzzzz)

You are joking right ? Beating these guys is the minimum requirment for respectabilty, hardly a sign of greatness.

Lewis was a good fighter in a period of so-so HWs, but there was no "Lewis era".
If one were to be very generous, Lewis might fit in the bottom 10 of a top 50 all time list

COMPLETE UTTER CRAP ! HA! HA! HA!