Teofilio Stevenson

[HomicideHenry]

3x’s the Olympic Heavyweight Gold Medalist. That was a record that was not beaten until nearly three decades after this man fought. At 6’5” and 215 pounds, Teofilio Stevenson of Cuba was arguably the greatest amateur to ever lace up the gloves.

In the 1960’s it was hinted a time or two that he would come into the professional ranks, and not just for any fight, but THE fight. A contract was never signed, but had Stevenson put aside his personal views of Communism and staying true to those beliefs, the man would have gotten a title shot against ‘The Greatest’ Muhammad Ali.

Had he done so he would have been the second man in history to do so, as Pete Rademacher (1956 Olympic Heavyweight Gold Medalist) did in 1957 against reigning champion Floyd Patterson when ‘supposedly’ there was no other opponents available, though that was not at all true since Patterson was ducking Eddie Machen, Sonny Liston, Cleveland Williams and other more dangerous contenders.

Ali himself was quoted as saying that had the two men fought he would see it as being a draw, that Stevenson would be his toughest opponent and that he honestly couldn’t see himself beating Stevenson, though the Cuban was just a three round fighter (amateur bouts were three rounds then, with no head gear).

Stevenson rarely lost as an amateur and fought as a top ranked boxer up until the 1980’s where he won the Gold Medal for the 3rd and last time.

Had Stevenson turned pro, how far d you think he would have gone? Would he have been a champion or got to the title, or would be end up like Rademacher and slowly go down a spiral into boxing’s basement?

It’s hard to tell, as most fighters who became champions lost to men in the amateurs that they would later beat when they turned pro. Take these examples as for instances:

-Joe Frazier lost to Tony Doyle as an amateur only to knock the Englishman out in two rounds when Joe turned pro.

-Mike Tyson lost to Henry Tillman twice as an amateur only to blast him out in a single round when Tyson met up with him in 1990.

It’s speculative. There have been many great professionals who lost as amateurs. The late Cus D’Amato once was quoted that he seen amateurs who could box above and beyond better technically than most professionals could, but with the many rules in the amateurs it would be hard to cross over into the professional ranks as pro boxing is far more aggressive and not as technical or as many rules (in the amateurs head shots count but body shots are not, a knockdown is worth two points and two punches no matter how ‘weak’ can make the fight even again).

I think if Stevenson was built up slowly he could very easily get a title shot, despite the great contenders in the 1960’s. He was just as elusive as Ali was and was very hard to hit with a solid punch, just like Ali and was fast on his feet and quick with his hands, just like Ali.

But then again, the same was said of amateur Coley Wallace, who many said was like a clone of Joe Louis and would become something great when he turned professional. But that didn’t happen as he failed to impress and failed to make a real mark on the division of the mid to late 1950’s.

Now had Stevenson just signed up to face off with Ali in his debut, I would think he would have to train extensively for over a year to get used to 15 rounds and have to use a lot of quality sparring with guys like Alonzo Johnson, Doug Jones and other slick movers. The verdict on the bout? Had it happened I think there would be a great chance that it could go the distance and would surely be tougher than Ali’s bouts with Terrell and Folley and Patterson because Ali would be facing a man whose style mirrored his own and that Stevenson could virtually match Ali in elusiveness and quickness.

The only thing that separates these two men is experience. Stevenson would be introduced to the professional ranks while Ali, a great amateur in his own right, was the champion and beat guys like Cooper, Liston, Patterson, Terrell and Folley; he had faced great adversity, while Stevenson never really did, considering he fought three round bouts, Olympic champion or not.

I see Stevenson having trouble in the middle to late rounds as conditioning and his psyche are taking a toll. The fight is even going into the 10th round, but Stevenson is tiring quickly and Ali knows he has to pick up the pace. The next five rounds are give and take as Ali wins 3 with 1 even and 1 Stevenson’s.

The decision is unanimous, Ali wins.

[KOJOE90]

Many views on this here.

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34487

[ringsider]

Teofilio Stevenson made a career of fighting 17 year old kids.......he could not on his best day in a real pro fight ever competed with Ali......get off the crack pipe guys!!!

[MEISINGER]

Teofilio Stevenson made a career of fighting 17 year old kids.......he could not on his best day in a real pro fight ever competed with Ali......get off the crack pipe guys!!!

But by the time this fight was supposed to happen, Ali was already suffering from Parkinson's. If Leon Spinks could beat Ali in 1978, so could Stevenson.

i have to agree.if this was to take place in late 76 to 78 i'd
probably pick teofilo

[ringsider]

Well then it is obvious you have problems with the crack pipe. The Leon Spinks that beat Ali would have given a beating to Teofilio Stevenson.

[Nile4000]

Stevenson was great, but this man was twice floored by Angel Milian, given hell by Jimmy Clark for a couple of fights, and got his behind handed to him by Igor Vysotsky.I would have loved to see him fight someone from here who could take his shots, like Mitch Green or Greg Page, then the results would've been different.

[overhand_right]

Coming out of a long 3 rd amateur career and fighting the heavyweight champ over 15 rds is just too big an ask. Its ridiculous to see Teo beating even a waning Ali. Ali was just far too experienced, tough, clever and adept to the pro ranks. Teo would fall apart long before the 15th rd.

Being a great amateur is rarely a free pass to being a great pro.

[Ambling Alp]

3x’s the Olympic Heavyweight Gold Medalist. That was a record that was not beaten until nearly three decades after this man fought. At 6’5” and 215 pounds, Teofilio Stevenson of Cuba was arguably the greatest amateur to ever lace up the gloves.

In the 1960’s it was hinted a time or two that he would come into the professional ranks, and not just for any fight, but THE fight. A contract was never signed, but had Stevenson put aside his personal views of Communism and staying true to those beliefs, the man would have gotten a title shot against ‘The Greatest’ Muhammad Ali.

Had he done so he would have been the second man in history to do so, as Pete Rademacher (1956 Olympic Heavyweight Gold Medalist) did in 1957 against reigning champion Floyd Patterson when ‘supposedly’ there was no other opponents available, though that was not at all true since Patterson was ducking Eddie Machen, Sonny Liston, Cleveland Williams and other more dangerous contenders.

Ali himself was quoted as saying that had the two men fought he would see it as being a draw, that Stevenson would be his toughest opponent and that he honestly couldn’t see himself beating Stevenson, though the Cuban was just a three round fighter (amateur bouts were three rounds then, with no head gear).

Stevenson rarely lost as an amateur and fought as a top ranked boxer up until the 1980’s where he won the Gold Medal for the 3rd and last time.

Had Stevenson turned pro, how far d you think he would have gone? Would he have been a champion or got to the title, or would be end up like Rademacher and slowly go down a spiral into boxing’s basement?

It’s hard to tell, as most fighters who became champions lost to men in the amateurs that they would later beat when they turned pro. Take these examples as for instances:

-Joe Frazier lost to Tony Doyle as an amateur only to knock the Englishman out in two rounds when Joe turned pro.

-Mike Tyson lost to Henry Tillman twice as an amateur only to blast him out in a single round when Tyson met up with him in 1990.

It’s speculative. There have been many great professionals who lost as amateurs. The late Cus D’Amato once was quoted that he seen amateurs who could box above and beyond better technically than most professionals could, but with the many rules in the amateurs it would be hard to cross over into the professional ranks as pro boxing is far more aggressive and not as technical or as many rules (in the amateurs head shots count but body shots are not, a knockdown is worth two points and two punches no matter how ‘weak’ can make the fight even again).

I think if Stevenson was built up slowly he could very easily get a title shot, despite the great contenders in the 1960’s. He was just as elusive as Ali was and was very hard to hit with a solid punch, just like Ali and was fast on his feet and quick with his hands, just like Ali.

But then again, the same was said of amateur Coley Wallace, who many said was like a clone of Joe Louis and would become something great when he turned professional. But that didn’t happen as he failed to impress and failed to make a real mark on the division of the mid to late 1950’s.

Now had Stevenson just signed up to face off with Ali in his debut, I would think he would have to train extensively for over a year to get used to 15 rounds and have to use a lot of quality sparring with guys like Alonzo Johnson, Doug Jones and other slick movers. The verdict on the bout? Had it happened I think there would be a great chance that it could go the distance and would surely be tougher than Ali’s bouts with Terrell and Folley and Patterson because Ali would be facing a man whose style mirrored his own and that Stevenson could virtually match Ali in elusiveness and quickness.

The only thing that separates these two men is experience. Stevenson would be introduced to the professional ranks while Ali, a great amateur in his own right, was the champion and beat guys like Cooper, Liston, Patterson, Terrell and Folley; he had faced great adversity, while Stevenson never really did, considering he fought three round bouts, Olympic champion or not.

I see Stevenson having trouble in the middle to late rounds as conditioning and his psyche are taking a toll. The fight is even going into the 10th round, but Stevenson is tiring quickly and Ali knows he has to pick up the pace. The next five rounds are give and take as Ali wins 3 with 1 even and 1 Stevenson’s.

The decision is unanimous, Ali wins.

Has everyone read this closely? IrishRufusMurphy is actually saying that Stevenson would have gave Ali a tough fight when Ali was the champion in the 1960's.

Stevenson could "virtually match Ali in elusiveness and quickness"
Training with Doug Jones and Alonzo Johnson supposedly would have helped him train for Ali.
Stevenson didn't even win a gold medal until the 1972 Olympics.

None of Ali's opponents gave him trouble when Ali was the champion in the 1960's but a Pre-Olympic Champion Teolifo Stevenson would have?

My favorite quote might be:
"In the 1960's it was hinted a time or two that he would come into the pro ranks and not just for any fight but for THE fight?"

[HomicideHenry]

sorry. I meant the 1970's. my minds all ova the place lately. my apologies.

[Ambling Alp]

Apology accepted.

[locoxelbox]

Teofilio Stevenson made a career of fighting 17 year old kids.......

When Stevenson first won the Olympics he was 20. Duane Bobick was 22. So that's bullshit.
Stevenson was not as great as Ali but with Ali past his prime there is a chance Stevenson could have won. Ali wasn´t knocking anyone out then, just dull 15 round decisions.

[HomicideHenry]

If Leon Spinks, being only 7-0 as a pro when he fought Ali, beat him. I dont see how a 2x (then) Olympic Gold Medalist couldn't.

[silkov]

If Leon Spinks, being only 7-0 as a pro when he fought Ali, beat him. I dont see how a 2x (then) Olympic Gold Medalist couldn't.

Yeah but your forgetting that Spinks was himself a great amutuer, and more over he had a style that was more suited and adaptable to the pros than Teofilo.... and in his 7 fights he had already beaten world class fighters.... being great for 3 rounds and 15 rounds are two totally different ball games...

[walshb]

The Ali that Spinks beat was a shell of the former great. Old, slower, lazier and easier hit. Now saying that I still see him beating Stevenson, whether it 3rds or 15. Over 3, Ali could go hell for leather as he would have no bother going the 9 minutes flat out. If Stevenson met the Foreman or Frazier 1 Ali, he loses decisively!!!

[silkov]

One difference would be that Ali, even the faded Ali, would be very up for a fight with Stevenston because of Stevenstons reputation, he wouldnt take him lightly like he did Leon...

[bill.lockhart]

Any man that wins 3 Olympic titles 8 years apart is some athlete. Given the appropriate learning curve, & transformation into the pro ranks, Stevenson would have been champion. Were Patterson, Ali, Frazier & Foreman not champions? This was a superb fighter. By 78 Stevenson would have beat Ali.

[overhand_right]

Agreed! He'd beat Ali as bad as Pete Rademacher beat Patterson!

[bill.lockhart]

Agreed! He'd beat Ali as bad as Pete Rademacher beat Patterson!

What makes you think Stevenson would not beat an aging Ali if he had 2 or 3 years under his belt as a pro?
Was he not the equal of Leon Spinks? Do you have to be a U. S. citizen to be a great fighter? He lacked only the competition. The best amateurs would would have the ability to beat all but maybe the top 10 or 15 professionals immediately turning pro, providing they had time to train for the extra distance. Give them the proper learning curve & they will be successful. A year after Frazier tuned pro he was beating Machen & Bonavena. You mention Rademacher. He was fed to the lions, but beat Chuvalo in 58. Most of the best amateurs would stop most professionals early enough that stamina wouldn't come into play their talent is so far superior. Professional means you get paid. It doesn't automatically make you better.

[KOJOE90]

If Leon Spinks, being only 7-0 as a pro when he fought Ali, beat him. I dont see how a 2x (then) Olympic Gold Medalist couldn't.

Yeah but your forgetting that Spinks was himself a great amutuer, and more over he had a style that was more suited and adaptable to the pros than Teofilo.... and in his 7 fights he had already beaten world class fighters.... being great for 3 rounds and 15 rounds are two totally different ball games...

I agree with silkov on this matter.

As a one off fight Teófilo would be really up against it over 15 rounds even against a faided Ali. Yes Spinks beat Ali but Spinks fought like a professional even with the vest on. Also his high octaine, swarming style was bad for Ali at that point in The Greatests' career and by then Ali like to fight at his own pace. Would Teófilo be able to put Ali under constant non-stop pressure for 15 rounds like Spinks did?

If Teófilo had defected and worked his way up the rankings could he have gotten past the likes of Shavers, Lyle or Jimmy Young?

[Collins2000]

Agreed! He'd beat Ali as bad as Pete Rademacher beat Patterson!

What makes you think Stevenson would not beat an aging Ali if he had 2 or 3 years under his belt as a pro?
Was he not the equal of Leon Spinks? Do you have to be a U. S. citizen to be a great fighter? He lacked only the competition. The best amateurs would would have the ability to beat all but maybe the top 10 or 15 professionals immediately turning pro, providing they had time to train for the extra distance. Give them the proper learning curve & they will be successful. A year after Frazier tuned pro he was beating Machen & Bonavena. You mention Rademacher. He was fed to the lions, but beat Chuvalo in 58. Most of the best amateurs would stop most professionals early enough that stamina wouldn't come into play their talent is so far superior. Professional means you get paid. It doesn't automatically make you better.

If you read the original post you will see that Rupert was waffling about Stevenson being able to beat Ali without having ANY professional fights.

Pure baloney, of course.

Had he had some pro fights like Spinks, it might have been different...

[HomicideHenry]

I disagree. Ali was at the end of his rope while Stevenson was at his peak and was going to win another Olympic Gold Medalist in 1982, hell this man would competively keep on fighting as a top ranked amateur til the end of the 1980's, while Ali would get butchered by Larry Holmes and lose by unaminous decision to Trevor berbick.

Who the hell did Leon Spinks beat to get to Ali that was so special? Scott LeDoux? Alfio Righetti? Those were the ONLY good guys he beat as a pro before Ali and the rest were journeyman and ham and eggers at best. I could suspect that Stevenson could beat both LeDoux and Righetti in his first pro bout had he ever done so.

Spinks was more a street fighter than a boxer---while Stevenson's style mirrored Ali's. He was extremely hard to hit, had a rather long reach, was tall and knew how to use it to his advantage. He was fast and could hit with a good punch as well.

I think he could have fought 15 rounds, if he trained simply for that one match. Take for instance, Chuck Wepner, the Ali fight was the first time that he had ever had the chance to train full time for a fight in his life and he went almost the entire 15 rounds.

I think Stevenson could beat Ali, at least the 1978-1981 Ali. But I do think, had he went professional and all, that he could have been champion. This can't be compared to Rademacher-Patterson, because Patterson was still in his prime years while Rademacher, though he was the Olympic Gold Medalist, wasn't as great as Stevenson.

A parkinson's riddeled Ali of 78' versus the greatest Olympic boxing champion, other than Lazlo Papp, in his prime...come on now.

I do agree though that if it was 3 rounds, that Ali would probably win, coming out as hard as he could because he knows well enough that at 3 rounds he has a great chance at losing to the greatest Olympian ever. But a fight of 10, 12, 15 rounds? I think at that stage in Ali's career, he could go the 15 with Stevenson, but couldn't take the fight to Stevenson the whole time.

[JC]

I disagree. Ali was at the end of his rope while Stevenson was at his peak and was going to win another Olympic Gold Medalist in 1982,

Do you mean '84?

[Collins2000]

I disagree. Ali was at the end of his rope while Stevenson was at his peak and was going to win another Olympic Gold Medalist in 1982,

Do you mean '84?

Rupert reminds me of Belushi's character in Animal House - "Did we just sit there when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour"?

[silkov]

I disagree. Ali was at the end of his rope while Stevenson was at his peak and was going to win another Olympic Gold Medalist in 1982, hell this man would competively keep on fighting as a top ranked amateur til the end of the 1980's, while Ali would get butchered by Larry Holmes and lose by unaminous decision to Trevor berbick.

Who the hell did Leon Spinks beat to get to Ali that was so special? Scott LeDoux? Alfio Righetti? Those were the ONLY good guys he beat as a pro before Ali and the rest were journeyman and ham and eggers at best. I could suspect that Stevenson could beat both LeDoux and Righetti in his first pro bout had he ever done so.

Spinks was more a street fighter than a boxer---while Stevenson's style mirrored Ali's. He was extremely hard to hit, had a rather long reach, was tall and knew how to use it to his advantage. He was fast and could hit with a good punch as well.

I think he could have fought 15 rounds, if he trained simply for that one match. Take for instance, Chuck Wepner, the Ali fight was the first time that he had ever had the chance to train full time for a fight in his life and he went almost the entire 15 rounds.

I think Stevenson could beat Ali, at least the 1978-1981 Ali. But I do think, had he went professional and all, that he could have been champion. This can't be compared to Rademacher-Patterson, because Patterson was still in his prime years while Rademacher, though he was the Olympic Gold Medalist, wasn't as great as Stevenson.

A parkinson's riddeled Ali of 78' versus the greatest Olympic boxing champion, other than Lazlo Papp, in his prime...come on now.

I do agree though that if it was 3 rounds, that Ali would probably win, coming out as hard as he could because he knows well enough that at 3 rounds he has a great chance at losing to the greatest Olympian ever. But a fight of 10, 12, 15 rounds? I think at that stage in Ali's career, he could go the 15 with Stevenson, but couldn't take the fight to Stevenson the whole time.

I'm sorry but your wrong, even a totally washed up Ali was able to ggive Trevor Berbick a competitve fight at the end of his career, people are always talking about the Berbick fight like it was a huge disgrace but Berbick was actually a very good fighter and even when he had little left Ali could still compete with him... the Wepner thing is just silly, Chuck was a hardened pro by the time he fought Ali, big difference to going straight in with Ali in your first pro fight... as I said before fighting amutuer and pro is two different worlds and I doubt Stevenstop would cross it successfully in one fight against a man like Ali....

[generic screen name]

Anyone has some footage of Teofilio Stevenson? I usually see lame two second footage, and he's not on youtube.