ANDREAS KOTELNIK - most underrated at 140

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 04 Jan 2007, 09:19

I just watched his fight with Mbaye. I felt that Kotelnik won an excellent fight quite clearly. I also remember seeing the Witter fight live and feeling the Junior was a bit lucky. I'm going to watch it again tonight to decide on it.

This guy is a superb little technician and also has a solid recent win over Abdullaev. Hope Andreas gets a world title shot. When the likes of Earl are getting shots at major titles, it's a disgrace that this guy isn't.

Both his losses were away from home. Hopefully he takes a title back to Germany.

sweetscience · Post by **sweetscience** » 04 Jan 2007, 09:47

didnt this guy beat Kindelan in the am's ?

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 04 Jan 2007, 10:05

He put in a good, tactical performance against Witter but clearly lost the verdict. Nothing lucky about Witter's win at all.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 04 Jan 2007, 10:18

I don't know, I remember watching it when I had no appreciation for that Eastern European style of fighting. Witter was stuck in quicksand in the middle stages and I remember being in doubt as to Witter deserving it.

Just looked up the 2000 Olympics, Kotelnik got a silver, losing to Kindelan in the final. I think he did beat him at another time, but may have lost some more fights to Kindelan as well.

Either way, Kotelnik is a class act and has evolved his style well.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 04 Jan 2007, 10:29

THEBUTCH wrote:He put in a good, tactical performance against Witter but clearly lost the verdict. Nothing lucky about Witter's win at all.

I had it a draw as I remember. Kotelnik looked pretty basic to me, jab jab right cross, that was about it. All he did was keep his guard up for 5 rounds and block everything Witter threw and then from the 6th on started jabbing and throwing the occasional right hand, nothing earth shattering.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 04 Jan 2007, 10:50

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
THEBUTCH wrote:He put in a good, tactical performance against Witter but clearly lost the verdict. Nothing lucky about Witter's win at all.
I had it a draw as I remember. Kotelnik looked pretty basic to me, jab jab right cross, that was about it. All he did was keep his guard up for 5 rounds and block everything Witter threw and then from the 6th on started jabbing and throwing the occasional right hand, nothing earth shattering.

I had Kotelnik doing NOTHING for the first 6. And I had Witter winning the 12th. Witter looked bloody awful that night though.

I agree with your assesment of Kotelnik doing nothing earth shattering. That doesnt mean he isn't a top fighter. He has very tight guard, doesnt ship too many punches at all, accurate and good timing. Hes certainly tough to contend with. I think Witter would be win a rematch convincingly.

Lets not forget Kotelnik beat Abduleev a while back. I never saw the Mbaiye fight and am suprised Maussa scored it to Kotelnik as most Ive talked too on the boards score it to Mbaiye

Anyway I can't see Kotelnik getting a title shot anywhere down the line. Even if you beat him you'll look bad and unexciting.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 04 Jan 2007, 10:52

Kotelnik has great basics. Very good in that Eastern European style of gauging distance, blocking shots, countering with accurate, well timed punches. Nothing flashy, but quite clever and practical.

Against Mbaye, Kotelnik started very slowly - outsped over the first 4 rounds, then settled down, controlled the pace, landed lots of good jabs and counters on the Frenchman, and blocked just about everything that came his way. Mbaye was very uncomfortable, his rhythm badly broken, and after round 4 he was just reacting to everything.

Chesney_Chambers · Post by **Chesney_Chambers** » 04 Jan 2007, 10:58

I admit I've only seen him fight Witter, but he looks like one of those fighters who is very difficult to beat. He is very compact, his defence is watertight and his stamina looked good enough, but offensively he was very unspectacular (whether this was just down to Witters awkward style I don't know) and he doesn't seem to carry much power.

Nobody will have an easy night against him, but I can't see him beating the elite in the division......unless he can get them on home turf

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 04 Jan 2007, 10:59

viciousmaussa wrote:Kotelnik has great basics. Very good in that Eastern European style of gauging distance, blocking shots, countering with accurate, well timed punches. Nothing flashy, but quite clever and practical.

Against Mbaye, Kotelnik started very slowly - outsped over the first 4 rounds, then settled down, controlled the pace, landed lots of good jabs and counters on the Frenchman, and blocked just about everything that came his way. Mbaye was very uncomfortable, his rhythm badly broken, and after round 4 he was just reacting to everything.

So you gave Mbaiye the first 4, isn't there 2-3rounds between rounds 5-12 you could give to Mbaiye?

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 04 Jan 2007, 11:05

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
viciousmaussa wrote:Kotelnik has great basics. Very good in that Eastern European style of gauging distance, blocking shots, countering with accurate, well timed punches. Nothing flashy, but quite clever and practical.

Against Mbaye, Kotelnik started very slowly - outsped over the first 4 rounds, then settled down, controlled the pace, landed lots of good jabs and counters on the Frenchman, and blocked just about everything that came his way. Mbaye was very uncomfortable, his rhythm badly broken, and after round 4 he was just reacting to everything.
So you gave Mbaiye the first 4, isn't there 2-3rounds between rounds 5-12 you could give to Mbaiye?

what I mean is, probably 3-1 up after 4 rds and then Kotelnik steadily clawing it back. Didn't count the rounds but I definitely had him winning. Admittedly, most of the rds were close, but Kotelnik was the effective aggressor. Mbaye - a fighter I like a lot - was very dynamic and flashy, but somewhat outwitted.

I think to do that well versus Mbaye is to be a major threat in the division.

Boxing News reported that Mbaye might fight Kotelnik for his 1st defence. Maybe Warren saw a tape of the fight recently, because he soon drafted in Graham Earl instead!

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 04 Jan 2007, 11:47

Witter-Kotelnik certainly wasn't a fight to set the pulse racing, but I sat ringside for that one and it was one of the few Witter fights that I actually enjoyed. Kotelnik had a game plan and stuck to it well, but came up just a bit short. What struck me was that he was a world class boxer and gave Witter plenty of problems. I had 116-113 to Witter (from memory).

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 04 Jan 2007, 12:32

i was ringside for the witter kotelnik fight, i remember saying at the time, that kotelnik was better than people were thinking and could end up being a decent player in the division, the more kotelniks career progresses then i feel people will realise that it was a good win for junior against a live opponent.

Chesney_Chambers · Post by **Chesney_Chambers** » 04 Jan 2007, 12:36

rhino222 wrote: i was ringside for the witter kotelnik fight, i remember saying at the time, that kotelnik was better than people were thinking and could end up being a decent player in the division, the more kotelniks career progresses then i feel people will realise that it was a good win for junior against a live opponent.

I agree, it's just a pity that Witter followed up that performance with the Colin Lynes one

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 04 Jan 2007, 14:30

I've watched it again, and given Kotelnik 2, 4, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11. However, I do admit that rd 10 could've been level, and that 2 could've gone Witter's way. (then again, did Witter REALLY win rd 12, or do ppl just say that to justify a Witter win?) So I won't cry robberry, but I do feel Kotelnik deserved at least a draw, maybe a bit better.

He was much better against Mbaye - for me there is less doubt that he was the winner.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 04 Jan 2007, 20:25

How could Kotelnik get any of the early rounds when he mostly did nothing but cover up?

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 05 Jan 2007, 04:31

Max Molyneux wrote:How could Kotelnik get any of the early rounds when he mostly did nothing but cover up?

I gave him 2 of the first 6 - in rd 2 he did land clean jabs smack in the mouth, as well as some subtle work in the 4th. those 2 rds are how my scoring differs to other ppl's - however, I do admit that there are rds that could go either way, so it's not a decision that i'd complain about...Kotelnik did start too slow, and he didn't finish strong enough. however, he totally figured Witter out after the halfway point, and it's no coincidence as he had the slick Mbaye walking through a fog.