Junior rankings

mike222 · Post by **mike222** » 12 Dec 2006, 15:12

My views on the 2006 Junior rankings are on http://www.ababoxing.com

THE WATCHER · Post by **THE WATCHER** » 13 Dec 2006, 00:13

Hey Mike
I heard you got some interesting comments about the rankings but i couldnt get on
I did the registration 2WICE and it wont let me in
What did you say about the ranked us boxers/

mike222 · Post by **mike222** » 13 Dec 2006, 05:27

I have Luis Yanez at 4 in the world,Sadam Ali at 4 also,Demetrius at 1 for 69kg,Shawn Porter at 2,Dorsett Barnwell at 6 and Michael Hunter at number 7.Pretty good two years from the Olympics.The russians and the Cubans though are very strong.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 14 Dec 2006, 16:55

mike222 wrote:I have Luis Yanez at 4 in the world,Sadam Ali at 4 also,Demetrius at 1 for 69kg,Shawn Porter at 2,Dorsett Barnwell at 6 and Michael Hunter at number 7.Pretty good two years from the Olympics.The russians and the Cubans though are very strong.

I like to see the USA's boxers getting some recognition. We do have boxers with talent and the 6 you have listed are just a representative sample.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 15 Dec 2006, 20:22

Mike, could you please explain the reasons you placed the U.S. boxers where you did? Thanks.

mike222 · Post by **mike222** » 18 Dec 2006, 11:28

Basically I just analyse results,this year takes preference but I do go back up to two years if I can establish a form/class line.If you want specific details I can do this.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 18 Dec 2006, 19:06

mike222 wrote:Basically I just analyse results,this year takes preference but I do go back up to two years if I can establish a form/class line.If you want specific details I can do this.

I would be curious how you arrived at your rankings. Just pick a weight class and then give us some examples as to how you arrived at the rankings in that division.

mike222 · Post by **mike222** » 21 Dec 2006, 06:06

How I assess the US boxers
48
Luiis Yanez lost to Saaed as a cadet and was well beaten by world champ Acosta,however he has victories over the useful Nevin and a good russian in Aloyan.His record puts him on a par with Pehlivan and probably in front of the Kazaki world silver medallist.Plus he is the number one junior or senior in his weight class in the US.Rank number 4

51
Qaid just misses out on a top ten spot having lost to the Morroccan Hadioui who lost to number nine Selby in the worlds.This is perhaps the most talent laden division in junior boxing.

54
Jorge Diaz is hard to evualate,he lost to Drobyshev but the Russian is a hugely experienced fighter who will be a major force as a senior.Diaz may be unlucky to be omitted from the top ten .He seems to be about number 7 in the senior US rankings

57
Sadam Alis victory over the Romanian Turcitu,who is a former european cadet medallist earns him a spot.Pagan is also highly thought of

60.
Jerry Belmontes loss to John Joe Joyce puts him out ot the top ten at the moment

64
Andres loss to number nine Polycyn keeps him out of the top ten

69
Although he did not compete in the world juniors Andrades world cup victories make me think he is a senior top ten fighter let alone a junior.On a form line he seems better than european senior bronze medallist Stretskiy

75
Porter beat a strong Russian and Irishman in the World juniors and he has beaten european senior silver medallist Usyk.I am surprised he lost to the Cuban world champ but a worthy number two

81
Alan Lawrence lost to a non top ten fighter in the world juniors

91
Dorsett had a couple of wins in the world juniors before losing to Kalchugin but that is no disgrace.The Russian is hugely experienced and I have no record of him ever losing

+91
Michael lost to Tyson Fury and the romanian world champion but I think has beaten the formidable Volkov who is probably the best

By and large the better europeans fight in more tournaments and hence have greater experience and that is quite often the decisive factor

Karlof · Post by **Karlof** » 21 Dec 2006, 09:11

Impressive lists!

Just two comments about the super heavyweights
(1) The pole Wawzryk is now a pro
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=377928

(2) Even if Fury beat Hunter I actually think that Hunter should be ranked higher. The comments I read about their fight talked about a very close " could have gone either way" fight. Hunter is beside that much more proven on senior level. Silver in Golden Gloves (he avenged the loss to winner Felix Stewart a couple of months later) and gold in the "PAL"-tournament earlier this year. He also got two wins over US number 2 Jonte Willis this year and as you say he beat Volkov in the first round in the U 19 championships. Fury was "outclassed" by UK nr 1 Price when he tested the seniorlevel.

Just my opinion of course.

K

mike222 · Post by **mike222** » 21 Dec 2006, 11:19

You are right it is only a ranking,does not mean A will beat B tomorrow,and the superheavies in particular are not that clear cut.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 21 Dec 2006, 16:04

mike222 wrote: 75 Porter beat a strong Russian and Irishman in the World juniors and he has beaten european senior silver medallist Usyk.I am surprised he lost to the Cuban world champ but a worthy number two
91 Dorsett had a couple of wins in the world juniors before losing to Kalchugin but that is no disgrace.The Russian is hugely experienced and I have no record of him ever losing

How has the Cuban Luis Garcia done in the Seniors? Porter does very well in the Seniors. I would like to see a rematch between these two.
You say that you have no record of Kalchugin ever losing. I take it then that he hasn't competed in any major international Senior tournaments or he would be ranked higher in your Senior World Rankings.

THE WATCHER · Post by **THE WATCHER** » 22 Dec 2006, 00:28

Hey dennis funny thing about that fight I just got it in the mail I watched it twice and i scored it and there is no way absolutely no way the Cuban scores more then 3 or 4 points a round for a total of about 14 points but he was given an acepted score of 37 points which means he probley scored about 60 points in the raw punch 3 outa 5 judges in a 1 second window scoring system on an elite boxer who is very hard to hit
ill send you a copy if you like .

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 22 Dec 2006, 00:54

THE WATCHER wrote:Hey dennis funny thing about that fight I just got it in the mail I watched it twice and i scored it and there is no way absolutely no way the Cuban scores more then 3 or 4 points a round for a total of about 14 points but he was given an acepted score of 37 points which means he probley scored about 60 points in the raw punch 3 outa 5 judges in a 1 second window scoring system on an elite boxer who is very hard to hit
ill send you a copy if you like .

Please do, I'd like to see the bout.

mike222 · Post by **mike222** » 23 Dec 2006, 09:59

Garcia hasnt actually done that well amongst the seniors,which is why I was surprised he beat Shawn.He has made little impact in cuban senior tournaments,but has reversed a couple of losses recently which indicates improvement.

mike222 · Post by **mike222** » 23 Dec 2006, 10:03

Kalchugin is being kept in the juniors but always had the better of Alizade who has moved into the seniors with ease and has beaten a bunch of good fighters.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 23 Dec 2006, 13:03

mike222 wrote:Kalchugin is being kept in the juniors but always had the better of Alizade who has moved into the seniors with ease and has beaten a bunch of good fighters.

Anyone have a DVD of Kalchugin's bouts they can send me. If so, PM me. I know he boxed Dorsett Barnwell twice so maybe someone in the U.S. has those bouts.

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 28 Dec 2006, 14:53

Karlof wrote:Impressive lists!

Just two comments about the super heavyweights
(1) The pole Wawzryk is now a pro
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=377928

(2) Even if Fury beat Hunter I actually think that Hunter should be ranked higher. The comments I read about their fight talked about a very close " could have gone either way" fight. Hunter is beside that much more proven on senior level. Silver in Golden Gloves (he avenged the loss to winner Felix Stewart a couple of months later) and gold in the "PAL"-tournament earlier this year. He also got two wins over US number 2 Jonte Willis this year and as you say he beat Volkov in the first round in the U 19 championships. Fury was "outclassed" by UK nr 1 Price when he tested the seniorlevel.

Just my opinion of course.

K

Fury has'nt achieved what Hunter has in his respective division domestically because he had to face off against David Price in the first round of the national ABA tournament over here in England.
Price is far better than any US super heavy around at the moment,so it puts Fury's lack of domestic senior success into perspective.
Price beat Fury 22-9,so was'nt officially outclassed.

Hunters victoiries against US super heavies don't really mean a lot in world ranking terms.
How many of these US super heavies are world ranked???

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 08 Jan 2007, 10:15

Hey dennis funny thing about that fight I just got it in the mail I watched it twice and i scored it and there is no way absolutely no way the Cuban scores more then 3 or 4 points a round for a total of about 14 points but he was given an acepted score of 37 points which means he probley scored about 60 points in the raw punch 3 outa 5 judges in a 1 second window scoring system on an elite boxer who is very hard to hit
ill send you a copy if you like .

Watcher - please remember that you are seeing the bout from one point of view only. An accepted score of 37 points does not mean he only received 60 points in the raw score - it was probably much higher. The Cubans are famous for throwing punches that judges can see and then running.

Three out of the five judges must push the button for the same boxer within a one-second window if and when they see a legally effective scoring blow. That's why there are five judges in most tournaments - three should be able to have a clear view of a landed shot while the other two (or more) could have their view blocked by boxer's backs, referees, and other such obstacles in their line of sight.