Joe Calzaghe vs Carl Froch

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 09 Jan 2007, 12:31

thanks max, but whenever i do that it just shows the code

hey pundit,maybe we should not give joe ideas eh?

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 09 Jan 2007, 12:34

m1kee50 wrote:thanks max, but whenever i do that it just shows the code

hey pundit,maybe we should not give joe ideas eh?

To be honest I don't know too much about Froch, have seen a couple of clips of him but no more.

But a guy who fights on more or less even terms with Brian Magee doesn't seem to be ready for the big time. Froch would probably be well advised to have a couple of bouts against top 15 fighters before he goes for the cream.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 09 Jan 2007, 12:36

for the cream? my god, are you feeling alright? lol i reckon you are right he needs experience first but the raw material is there

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 09 Jan 2007, 12:36

pundit wrote:There are five guys here who seriously think Froch would win this?

That's what I was thinking, more a case of bad feeling towards Calzaghe I think than actually thinking he'll win surely. Its plainly obvious in my opinion that Froch is nowhere near Calzaghe's level.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 09 Jan 2007, 12:37

I wouldn't say he was on even terms with Magee, I think he just banked on being able to knock him if he landed the uppercut, which as it turned out was correct.

Froch is better than his performances suggest sometimes I think, but I don't see him beating Calzaghe, who for all his annoying traits, is still fighting very close to his prime for a fighter with a long career behind them.

I think Joe would be all over Froch and would beat him hands down, though probably not stop him.

The Durable Dane · Post by **The Durable Dane** » 09 Jan 2007, 13:12

Calzaghe UD

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 09 Jan 2007, 13:45

achybreaky wrote:
THEBUTCH wrote:Froch isn't ready just yet for Kessler and Calzaghe IMO but he's closing in.

He's cleaned up in Britain, next stop should be 2 or 3 Europeans or rated opponents then he's as ready as he will ever be.

Mikkel and Joe hold the aces now, but in 12 months time Froch will ready to give them a real challenge. Carl's better than several of Calzaghe's world title challengers already and even if is technical flaws let him down, he'll still be ready to gut it out and that makes him a definite danger.
I can name two Britains that would say different froch hasnt cleaned up anything yet (i know this is a touchy subject but he is eleigible to fight) john duddy and Joe calsaghe.

Don't start the whole 'Is Duddy British?' thing again!!!!
He is a middlewight,and ultimately,would get owned by Froch if he were to ever step up in weight anyway.

Calzaghe is'nt British level,and has'nt been for years.So he can't count....unless you could see him wanting to fight for the British title(something of a step down me thinks!)

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 09 Jan 2007, 14:05

whether or not duddy is british, it all comes down to where he fights doesnt it? Gatti is eligible to fight for the commonwealth title (imagine the shock factor when that mandatory gets announced lol) but he doesnt consider himself british, why should we consider duddy british?

boxbet · Post by **boxbet** » 09 Jan 2007, 15:00

It would be a great fight to watch and generate a lot of interest in this country. Froch has achieved enough to become a challenger to joe's crown, but that does not mean he would win. THIS fight will never happen because Warren only wants Americans mainly.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 09 Jan 2007, 15:04

boxbet wrote:It would be a great fight to watch and generate a lot of interest in this country. Froch has achieved enough to become a challenger to joe's crown, but that does not mean he would win. THIS fight will never happen because Warren only wants Americans mainly.

If Frankie Warren doesn't want him Froch must be good.

dumdane · Post by **dumdane** » 09 Jan 2007, 16:49

Twinkle Toes wrote:Froch is getting closer and closer to Kessler, so he doesnt really need Calzaghe at the moment.

I'd really fancy his chances against Kessler too.

Don't know what ppl are one when they say stuff like "Froch is getting close to the top" and such.
Froch just fought someone (Dodson) who wasn't even ranked among the top 100 SMW's (Boxrec around 120 i believe) FFS. How is looking decent against such opposition indicating that he's getting closer to the top?
How can you conclude ANYTHING from how he performs against sub top-100 opposition?

If Froch was young there'd be some hope of wast improvement - but he's not really. He's older than Kessler FFS.
But wow - he dominated Dodson - He's really getting somewhere - riiiiight

Unbeleivable how so many brits are buying into this Froch hype. Must be a sign of pure desperation that an era of Good SMW's is fast approaching an end. Anything will have to do.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 09 Jan 2007, 17:01

go on then, tell us another dane apart from kessler who looks better than froch at SMW? Dodson was a title defence, not a choice, so hardly carls fault.

you saw nothing in froch that indicated he can step up? however do you expect to pick a danish contender?

dumdane · Post by **dumdane** » 09 Jan 2007, 17:08

m1kee50 wrote:go on then, tell us another dane apart from kessler who looks better than froch at SMW? Dodson was a title defence, not a choice, so hardly carls fault.

you saw nothing in froch that indicated he can step up? however do you expect to pick a danish contender?

I won't. There isn't any (with Mads Larsen out of the game). But i'm not running around suggesting any danes apart from Kessler would stand a chance against the top guys either.

Only danish fighter i'm hyping is Kessler - but there's a damn lot more reason for that than for anyone to be hyping Froch. And if you can't see that, you've completely lost any sence of perspective.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 09 Jan 2007, 17:19

i have plenty of perspective, ty.

we have calzaghe, you have kessler.
we have carl froch, not just british but commonwealth champion (so he cant be a complete muppet)
we have Scott Dann, former Commonwealth Middleweight champion.

So we have one World champion (Ring Belt n'all lol), one Commonwealth champion high in all the world rankings, and one up and coming fighter , while the danes have one fighter (holding world belts i give you that).

And the brits are concerned and fixated with the end of an era?

dumdane · Post by **dumdane** » 09 Jan 2007, 17:41

m1kee50 wrote:i have plenty of perspective, ty.

we have calzaghe, you have kessler.
we have carl froch, not just british but commonwealth champion (so he cant be a complete muppet)
we have Scott Dann, former Commonwealth Middleweight champion.

So we have one World champion (Ring Belt n'all lol), one Commonwealth champion high in all the world rankings, and one up and coming fighter , while the danes have one fighter (holding world belts i give you that).

And the brits are concerned and fixated with the end of an era?

Yeah yeah - good for you. Britain with it's what? 60? 70? million ppl are able to come up with more good SMW's than Denmark (5 million ppl). Great - If it's even true.
If Froch is really the second best brit i'm inclined to believe that Larsen if he bother to try and get his career back together would beat him (even convincingly). Even mentally fecked up and slow Markussen might be better.

And who the feck cares about a commonwealth belt? Am i supposed to start mentioning nordic union titles or something (doesn't excist- so don't bother looking)? It (commonwealt thing) is at best a third rate tittle you fight for if you're unable to be in contention for real titles.

So by all means go on and draw up lists about how the UK have dominated Denmark in countless areas from Rugby to Cricket. But it still doesn't make Froch that good. (which was the point of the debate).

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 09 Jan 2007, 17:47

not trying to compare denmark to england, just saying that we are not bemoaning the end of an era, we are saying we have another boy coming up the ranks. you made the point of froch not being world class, and if you look everyone who has posted has made that point. I was just attempting to answer your point that we are hyped up on Froch because we have no great SMW and have substituted Froch. I don't beleive thats the case, and I fail to see how an observer cannot see in Froch the ingredients of a champion.

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 09 Jan 2007, 18:17

You Kessler fans are just getting a bit itchy that Froch is closing in on your boy - Froch actually has a very good chin (scratch Mundine) and wont come to sit down (scratch Beyer) :p

In all seriousness, I aint a big Froch fan, but he's done all that has been asked of him and his team seem to want to go down the WBC route, so maybe we will see him in against Kessler - For all his faults he has certainly got the power to break Kessler down, especially with the uppercut (we all know Kessler cant fight on the inside) ;)

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 09 Jan 2007, 18:17

Froch is far from great, he'll get beaten when he fights a top 10 fighter with a decent chin.

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 09 Jan 2007, 18:25

dumdane wrote:
m1kee50 wrote:i have plenty of perspective, ty.

we have calzaghe, you have kessler.
we have carl froch, not just british but commonwealth champion (so he cant be a complete muppet)
we have Scott Dann, former Commonwealth Middleweight champion.

So we have one World champion (Ring Belt n'all lol), one Commonwealth champion high in all the world rankings, and one up and coming fighter , while the danes have one fighter (holding world belts i give you that).

And the brits are concerned and fixated with the end of an era?
Yeah yeah - good for you. Britain with it's what? 60? 70? million ppl are able to come up with more good SMW's than Denmark (5 million ppl). Great - If it's even true.
If Froch is really the second best brit i'm inclined to believe that Larsen if he bother to try and get his career back together would beat him (even convincingly). Even mentally fecked up and slow Markussen might be better.

And who the feck cares about a commonwealth belt? Am i supposed to start mentioning nordic union titles or something (doesn't excist- so don't bother looking)? It (commonwealt thing) is at best a third rate tittle you fight for if you're unable to be in contention for real titles.

So by all means go on and draw up lists about how the UK have dominated Denmark in countless areas from Rugby to Cricket. But it still doesn't make Froch that good. (which was the point of the debate).

Froch turned pro late,has'nt had a great deal of bouts,is unbeaten and in my opinion on the rise.
You say beating Tony Dodson does'n tmean anything,and I agree,it does'nt on the world stage.But then again,Froch did'nt just beat him,he demolished him.

Froch is a good fighter,and I beleive we have yet to see the best of him.It will take a top fighter to bring the best out of him.
I would'nt back him to beat Kessler or Calzaghe,but it would'nt be a complete mismatch against either fighter.
He certainly would'nt have no trouble with Larsen or Madsen!!!!

As for the commonwealth title.....of course it's been there just for fighters not good enough to win real honours,that's why you had average boxers like Lennox Lewis,John Conteh,Nigel Benn,Michael Watson,Randy Turpin,Lloyd Honeyghan all fight for it and win it.
I agree that some fighters reach this level and can't go any higher,but it's also been a good building block for past world champions,and will no doubt continue to be.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 09 Jan 2007, 18:27

You think Froch wouldn't have trouble with Mads Larsen? Come on Larsen although inactive is far more proven than Froch.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 09 Jan 2007, 18:40

Despite rankings, I'd say Dodson was one of Froch's best wins.

Kessler and Joe would beat Froch, It'd be a mismatch with Calzaghe and more of a clear points win for Kessler due to styles and talent.

Kessler's as hyped as Froch though but he is better than Froch and has won two belts, so can;t take that from him.

If Froch reaches world level which Isn't hard at SuperMiddle, It depends on who he fights.

Achybreaky · Post by **Achybreaky** » 09 Jan 2007, 18:46

nickd wrote:
achybreaky wrote:
THEBUTCH wrote:Froch isn't ready just yet for Kessler and Calzaghe IMO but he's closing in.

He's cleaned up in Britain, next stop should be 2 or 3 Europeans or rated opponents then he's as ready as he will ever be.

Mikkel and Joe hold the aces now, but in 12 months time Froch will ready to give them a real challenge. Carl's better than several of Calzaghe's world title challengers already and even if is technical flaws let him down, he'll still be ready to gut it out and that makes him a definite danger.
I can name two Britains that would say different froch hasnt cleaned up anything yet (i know this is a touchy subject but he is eleigible to fight) john duddy and Joe calsaghe.
Duddy is a middleweight, and fights in the US.

Since when did the us have exclusive rights to duddy? im not trying to start this whole is Duddy british argument as its been done to death but he is eligible and i would fancy him against froch thats my only point.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 09 Jan 2007, 18:48

Off the top of my head I will name some world class guys at 168 I think would beat Froch if he fought them.

Calzaghe
Kessler
Mundine
Inkin
Lacy
Bute

Possibly Andrade but not seen enough of him to pass judgement really.

Froch isn't winning a world title at 168 anytime soon.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 09 Jan 2007, 18:51

Froch would probably suit Lacy, Froch isn't a fast mover and It's possible he'd get stopped trying to walk through Lacy falling in love with his power.

Remember Hennessy talking about Froch fighting Bute for an eliminator, not seen Bute but people are saying he's the next Calzaghe.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 09 Jan 2007, 19:03

I agree, Lacy would have no trouble landing his bombs on Froch. As good as Froch's chin is Lacy would stop him sooner or later he's a static target.

Joe Calzaghe vs Carl Froch

Calzaghe vs Froch, if it occurs....