How Good was Vanzie?

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 09 Jan 2007, 08:12

Just watched Vanzie-Earl 2 the other day, for the 1st time. Vanzie was robbed blind. I figured it was going to be a relatively close fight but it wasn't even close to being close.

Vanzie reminds me a bit of Junior Witter, slick, unortodox, unlucky.

Does anyone wonder what his career might have been, were it not for the robbery losses, the KO loss to Romanov and the religious conversion?

A fight with Witter would've been interesting, to say the least.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 09 Jan 2007, 08:18

The comaprisons with Witter are good ones. I don't think Vanzie was as good in any department though. I did think he beat Earl more comfortably in fight 2 than fight 1 (which he also did win).

He was European class, but I think wouldn't have gone any futher than that. Shame he didn't get the chance though.

JC · Post by JC » 09 Jan 2007, 08:33

When I first saw him I assumed Vanzie was an Ingle fighter because of the way he fought.

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 09 Jan 2007, 09:47

As I recall Vanzie/Earl 2 was an awful robbery. And I don't blame Vanzie one bit for being so pissed off about it. fornicate knows how Terry O'Connor had Earl winning. I know Earl was coming forward and Vanzie was boxing off the back foot, but it's not like O'Conner is from the US.
I thought Vanzie had enough talent to reach EBU level and maybe even get a world title shot.

ebeneezer · Post by **ebeneezer** » 09 Jan 2007, 10:50

What did Vanzie say about Terry O'Connor to land in hot water with the bbboc?

Nicky Piper said they were racially tinged remarks and he supported the board's decision to punish him.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 09 Jan 2007, 12:12

Old Vanzie article here.

http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxing-a ... peaks-out/

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 09 Jan 2007, 12:43

ebeneezer wrote:What did Vanzie say about Terry O'Connor to land in hot water with the bbboc?

Nicky Piper said they were racially tinged remarks and he supported the board's decision to punish him.

Well, Nicky Piper's had a few favors in his time, so I wouldn't think he'd understand. How the eff did he get a title shot at WBO king Leeonzer Barber? & why did he get a shot at Michalczewski after LOSING to Crawford Ashley? Maybe cos he's white and educated? It was a disgrace, that Nicky 'challenged' Dariusz (instea dof Crawford) and he got brained promtly, lol

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 09 Jan 2007, 15:47

Its not like Crawford didn't have a shot after the Piper win though? He did get his shot first and Piper did regain some form and fight and win the Commonwealth.

I don't think he was underserving of the shot, certainly been better fighters but also worse fighters in terms of credentials.

The Barber fight was a bit of a heartbreak. Seemed to be in a commanding lead - started to raise his arms between rounds. Always had the feeling that Barber was going to get to him in the end. Did a brave job vs Benn aswell.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 09 Jan 2007, 18:36

I thought Vanzie would go onto world class he was a level above Euro and was world class in many ways. He fought the wrong fight against the wrong man in Ramonov, if it wasnt for the fight and with better management Vanzie could have been a belt holder at 135.

I actually think he had more potential than Witter - think they went 1-1 in the ameteurs and talked about having a decider in the Pros.

The Earl decisions must have been the worst in a British ring in years. Vanzie easily won 8-9 rounds in the second fight, knocked Earl down and lost the round. It seems that the ref was on the take and the fix was in on that fight. I remember Bobby wanted sue the BBOC over the whole matter.

The question is who fixed the Vanzie-Earl fights - because 2 massive roberies do equal a fix.

After been frozen out of the scene and after turning too God, decided boxing was against his beliefs

He was talking about a comeback weighing a solid musclular 168-175 last time he was seen in the gym (not a realistic comeback but dont fighters always talk the talk?)

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 09 Jan 2007, 18:42

Well Earl wasn't a Warren fighter at the time.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 09 Jan 2007, 18:51

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:I thought Vanzie would go onto world class he was a level above Euro and was world class in many ways. He fought the wrong fight against the wrong man in Ramonov, if it wasnt for the fight and with better management Vanzie could have been a belt holder at 135.

I actually think he had more potential than Witter - think they went 1-1 in the ameteurs and talked about having a decider in the Pros.

The Earl decisions must have been the worst in a British ring in years. Vanzie easily won 8-9 rounds in the second fight, knocked Earl down and lost the round. It seems that the ref was on the take and the fix was in on that fight. I remember Bobby wanted sue the BBOC over the whole matter.

The question is who fixed the Vanzie-Earl fights - because 2 massive roberies do equal a fix.

After been frozen out of the scene and after turning too God, decided boxing was against his beliefs

He was talking about a comeback weighing a solid musclular 168-175 last time he was seen in the gym (not a realistic comeback but dont fighters always talk the talk?)

Vanzie was good don't get me wrong but I don't think he's as good as you are suggesting. I can't see how he'd have won a genuine world title.

European was about him limit IMO.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 09 Jan 2007, 18:57

nickd wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
Vanzie was good don't get me wrong but I don't think he's as good as you are suggesting. I can't see how he'd have won a genuine world title.

European was about him limit IMO.

Well at the top level your had Castillo and Corrales who would be favoured but both had problems with speedy slicksters so Vanzie could potentially cause an upset. The WBA title around that time wasn't in the firmest of grips until Dorin got his hands on it and he was beatable, I think Vanzies best bet would have been against Spadafora who was mediocre title holder for a long time and would most likely have got a schooling. WBO title holder Grigorian was also pretty beatable.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 09 Jan 2007, 18:58

Max Molyneux wrote:Well Earl wasn't a Warren fighter at the time.

Warren isnt the only Fwank capable of putting the fix in. It could have been anyone in Earls team who laised with the ref

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 09 Jan 2007, 19:06

Castillo and Corrales would have brutalised Vanzie, no way he could have hung with those two.

OLD-LONDON-RULES · Post by **OLD-LONDON-RULES** » 09 Jan 2007, 19:48

Yes there is racism in British Boxing.

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 09 Jan 2007, 20:35

bobby is a lovely guy and i definately think he under achieved for the talent he had (some his fault, and some the officials). i was at pickets lock when he fought murray. bobby got off the floor twice to stop steve murray in an absolute barnburner of a scrap over about 6 rounds if i recall.

i have not seen many boxers with the recovery powers of bobby vanzie, particularly in that fight, bobby was laid out with a left hook, eyes in orbit, and he still beat the count and came back to win, absolute roy of the rovers stuff.

thanks for the memories BV.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 09 Jan 2007, 21:09

He was certainly out of it in that first round, I thought Murray had that fight won.

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 10 Jan 2007, 04:49

Yeah I was in a pub in Harlow for that one, everyone felt Murray had the title won that night. Anyone know why Murray's comeback only lasted 1 fight? Not saying he would beat Thaxton or anything but could definitely be an exciting addition to an already exciting domestic division.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 10 Jan 2007, 07:33

Bobby's a cracking guy.

FOr the Romanov fight he was boiled out. Shadow boxing etc in the toilets with hand driers on at the weigh in.

The Vanzie that blew away Maynard and later fought Earl would have been a threat at European level, would he have got the result in Italy against Casamonica had the fight materialised? Who knows, he wasn't crowd pleasing in the classic sense. But if Cookie could cold cock Casamonica you'd venture Vanzie could have hurt him to, he was a big lightweight.

The way his career fizzled out was a shame, trying to squeeze in a payd day before expecting to be banned, an 8 rounder turned into 4 in an empty arena....just shame.

I can say, he's very content with his present lot.

Thanks for the link to the article Max.

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 10 Jan 2007, 07:41

Vanzie had a lot of potential, but he didnt handle his bad luck too well.

Still, sometimes you have to get back up, brush yaself down and get on with it.

It is difficult to assess what he could have achieved, but the facts don't lie - His best wins are against British opponents. I guess he could have moved into euro class, but I very much doubt he could have gone much further.

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 10 Jan 2007, 18:05

I'm not sure anyone would call those two fights against Earl 'bad luck'. I think most fighters would be upset at getting robbed once, but twice against the same guy is enough to send anyone over the edge.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 11 Jan 2007, 06:06

stujones wrote:Its not like Crawford didn't have a shot after the Piper win though? He did get his shot first and Piper did regain some form and fight and win the Commonwealth.

I don't think he was underserving of the shot, certainly been better fighters but also worse fighters in terms of credentials.

The Barber fight was a bit of a heartbreak. Seemed to be in a commanding lead - started to raise his arms between rounds. Always had the feeling that Barber was going to get to him in the end. Did a brave job vs Benn aswell.

so he did - I thought it was pre-Piper but it's not, LOL. There was a bit of a fuss at the time on the matter, but Ashley got a shot at Hill half a year later, it turns out