Calzaghe

[Autobarn]

Get rid of Manfredo, and stop waiting for elite Americans like Hopkins, Taylor and a struggling Roy Jones. You've thrown away half a career with this kind of stuff and have allowed Ottke, Beyer and Kessler to have success with less resistance.

The big fight with a Yank turned out to be Lacy, and unless Lacy does something big you'll never get huge credit for the victory and historians WON'T be kind to you.

Just look at these figures:
Ottke made 20 defences of his WBA title and unified it with the IBF.
Beyer won the WBC title 3x.
Kessler is a half unified champion with more titles than you and better challengers queueing up than are in the WBOdorous -the Dane has even beaten the same # of world title holders in only 3 yrs as champ.

How the hell can you let that happen, even in an era of fragmented belts?

Come on Joe, pull your socks up.

[Chesney_Chambers]

Froch followed by Kessler would do me

[dr_devious]

Maussa is right, but Calzaghe has wasted more than half his career - hes wasted most of his prodigious talent. The only really big match up was Lacy, but Im convinced that Calzaghe always knew Lacys's style was perfect for him and that he had Lacy's number - you could see how confident Joe was entering the ring, even though Lacy was the man at the time.
Calzaghe is unwilling to step out of his comfort zone, and will never now cement his place in world terms. I'd give Joe 9 out of 10 for ability, but 2 out of 10 for ambition

[The Blade]

Maussa is right, but Calzaghe has wasted more than half his career - hes wasted most of his prodigious talent. The only really big match up was Lacy, but Im convinced that Calzaghe always knew Lacys's style was perfect for him and that he had Lacy's number - you could see how confident Joe was entering the ring, even though Lacy was the man at the time.
Calzaghe is unwilling to step out of his comfort zone, and will never now cement his place in world terms. I'd give Joe 9 out of 10 for ability, but 2 out of 10 for ambition

Wasted career ..... interesting one that. He is a professional boxer. World champ for more than nine years. Never badly hurt. Never beaten. Made a fortune. Stunning girlfriend. At last getting recognition for being our best fighter in God knows how long. He's in it to make a living. Ottke never wanted to know. HBO don't want Kessler, at least not yet. Beyer would have been hammered, and his people knew it. Hopkins fight was made a few years back before he doubled his purse demand and priced himself out of fight he would probably have lost, and Jones preferred to stoke up his ego elsewhere. Ask Joe if he thinks he's wasted his career ..... he would laugh at you, and rightly so.

[dondada]

Maussa is right, but Calzaghe has wasted more than half his career - hes wasted most of his prodigious talent. The only really big match up was Lacy, but Im convinced that Calzaghe always knew Lacys's style was perfect for him and that he had Lacy's number - you could see how confident Joe was entering the ring, even though Lacy was the man at the time.
Calzaghe is unwilling to step out of his comfort zone, and will never now cement his place in world terms. I'd give Joe 9 out of 10 for ability, but 2 out of 10 for ambition

Wasted career ..... interesting one that. He is a professional boxer. World champ for more than nine years. Never badly hurt. Never beaten. Made a fortune. Stunning girlfriend. At last getting recognition for being our best fighter in God knows how long. He's in it to make a living. Ottke never wanted to know. HBO don't want Kessler, at least not yet. Beyer would have been hammered, and his people knew it. Hopkins fight was made a few years back before he doubled his purse demand and priced himself out of fight he would probably have lost, and Jones preferred to stoke up his ego elsewhere. Ask Joe if he thinks he's wasted his career ..... he would laugh at you, and rightly so.

Yes, almost all of this is true. There are two schools of thought. One is the 'business' side of things, the other is the 'sport'. Joe has done incredibly well out of boxing and his career has been exemplary over the past few years in how to make the money from the least risk. Brilliant promotion.

But what you will find is that most fans of the sport who actually care about boxing realise that Calzaghe has so much more to offer in sporting terms. It angers knowledgeable fans that he isn't really bothered about creating a genuine sporting legacy.

True fans still retain the Corinthian ideals of the sport...which again, you would laugh at and so would Joe. To you (sorry, I mean Sports Network) and Joe, as I've pointed out before, legacy=money.

Matching Manfredo against him and probably successfully selling this load of nonsense to the general public will probably have you all laughing at the fans again.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Yes, totally agree. The concept of the Corinthian ideal in sport is something which is only upheld by a very few these days, and often it is those who are not at the pinnacle of their sport. You find it in the non-league players who turn out for the FA cup every year in the hope of making it to the later rounds, in the journeymen fighters who scrap away for an honest living and occasionally, the hope of springing a surprise on some young prospect on the way up.

As you say, most promoters and fellow fighters (save a few of the old school who didn't make much from their own careers) would say that Calzaghe has done what every fighter, deep down, wants to do, make a great living with minimal tough nights' work, and hang on to their championship belt.

Great work by his promoters, who at the end of the day, serve their fighters, not the public, it's only occasionally that in serving their fighters they also end up serving up a great fight to the public, and that is often at the behest of their fighters in any case.

Joe's level of ambition never matched his undoubted talent, but the funny thing is, I suspect that Joe could have made a hell of a lot MORE money had he taken some risks.

Had Joe gone to America after the win over Mitchell, when he was red hot, he could have had a couple of soft opponent with US exposure, and secured himself a big fight, it would have been so much easier to get a fight with a big name with mainstream exposure in the US, and even had he lost a fight over there subsequently, it is unlikely he would have done so in a dull fight. A loss is no barrier to making huge sums of money, Gatti, and now Pacquaio have proven that it's the manner of victory or defeat which makes you a hot property.

At the end of the day, Calzaghe is a legend in his own mind, he has convinced himself some time ago he is the best 168 lb fighter in the world, and probably the best British fighter of all time, and he doesn't give a stuff what anyone else thinks, this towering ego (or call it a champions confidence if you will), is part of what has made him what he was, good and bad.

[Autobarn]

The thing is, some non knowledgable fan is always going to say Calzaghe's a legend etc etc, and we would have to say "I'm sorry, that's a fvcking lie", because his peer - Ottke - made more defences than Calzaghe, & his new peer, Kessler, actually managed to keep two belts.

[nickd]

Exactly, Lewis far surpassed anything Calzaghe will achieve from here on in.

[mattyp151]

Exactly, Lewis far surpassed anything Calzaghe will achieve from here on in.

Joe would have to take on Kessler, Hopkins, Wright, and then win a heavyweight title by 2008 to even come close to what Lennox did during his fantastic career.

[E]

Maussa is right, but Calzaghe has wasted more than half his career - hes wasted most of his prodigious talent. The only really big match up was Lacy, but Im convinced that Calzaghe always knew Lacys's style was perfect for him and that he had Lacy's number - you could see how confident Joe was entering the ring, even though Lacy was the man at the time.
Calzaghe is unwilling to step out of his comfort zone, and will never now cement his place in world terms. I'd give Joe 9 out of 10 for ability, but 2 out of 10 for ambition

Wasted career ..... interesting one that. He is a professional boxer. World champ for more than nine years. Never badly hurt. Never beaten. Made a fortune. Stunning girlfriend. At last getting recognition for being our best fighter in God knows how long. He's in it to make a living. Ottke never wanted to know. HBO don't want Kessler, at least not yet. Beyer would have been hammered, and his people knew it. Hopkins fight was made a few years back before he doubled his purse demand and priced himself out of fight he would probably have lost, and Jones preferred to stoke up his ego elsewhere. Ask Joe if he thinks he's wasted his career ..... he would laugh at you, and rightly so.

Have you by any chance ever heard of Lennox Lewis?

Ah yes, LEnnox LEwis - Canada's best ever fighter!

Lewis is as British as Zola Budd, and lest you forget, in the unpaid code where nationality is more important, he represented Canada.

Lewis fought 'for the Uk' because this made financial sense and he was given a good offer by a UK team.

If he was given a similar offer by a Canadian team, he would be waving the Canadian flag.....like wise if he made an offer in Australia. So he was born here - so what? I was born in another European country but would never pretend to be from there.

Lewis' claim to being British is as fraudulent as that Kentan runner's claim of being from Qatar.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Lewis was born in the UK, and lived here until his early teens.

Zola Budd was born, raised and lived in South Africa, and was granted a British Passport because she had English relatives, or in fact was it merely because SA was part of the commonwealth?

Get over it mate, Lewis is, was, and remains British.

[E]

Lewis was born in the UK, and lived here until his early teens.

Zola Budd was born, raised and lived in South Africa, and was granted a British Passport because she had English relatives, or in fact was it merely because SA was part of the commonwealth?

Get over it mate, Lewis is, was, and remains British.

Lewis moved to Canada when he was 12, not in his teens.

Lewis being 'british' is just a business decision. Has he even ever owned a house here? I'm sure he doesn't now.

I would be interested to know what country he paid his taxes to.....

[jamesmcdonnell]

Lewis' decision to move to Canada in the first place was taken by his mother, he can hardly have helped the fact he spent his early boxing career in Canada can he now?

12, early teens, wow! A whole year out. Fact is, he was born and raised here, he didn't just apply for a British passport after being born somewhere else.

Yes, it was partly a business decision, so what, born and raised sonny boy, born and raised.

[dr_devious]

Wasted career ..... interesting one that. He is a professional boxer. World champ for more than nine years. Never badly hurt. Never beaten. Made a fortune. Stunning girlfriend. At last getting recognition for being our best fighter in God knows how long. He's in it to make a living. Ottke never wanted to know. HBO don't want Kessler, at least not yet. Beyer would have been hammered, and his people knew it. Hopkins fight was made a few years back before he doubled his purse demand and priced himself out of fight he would probably have lost, and Jones preferred to stoke up his ego elsewhere. Ask Joe if he thinks he's wasted his career ..... he would laugh at you, and rightly so.

Its a case of what might have been for Calzaghe, hence "the wasted career" statement. I'd argue he hasnt been world champ for 9 years but WBO titlist. And Lennox Lewis' achievements dwarf Calzaghe's, and I would say that Naz equalled them.
Joe seems to stay in the comfort zone and just doesnt go for it - hes not gone over to the States to take on the big names, and earn himself more money. You list other fighters and make up excuses why they didnt fight Calzaghe, but there is no-one better at pulling out of fights than Joe himself. It says it all that he achieves a career best win over Lacy then his next 2 defences are against Bika and Manfredo.

[E]

Lewis' decision to move to Canada in the first place was taken by his mother, he can hardly have helped the fact he spent his early boxing career in Canada can he now?

12, early teens, wow! A whole year out. Fact is, he was born and raised here, he didn't just apply for a British passport after being born somewhere else.

Yes, it was partly a business decision, so what, born and raised sonny boy, born and raised.

Oh so 'being raised' only counts for the first 12 years of one's life? what about the ensuing 11 years he spent in Canada AND more importantly fight for Canada in the OLympics at age 23....Hmmmm

You just want to claim him as British because he was so successful, or because you are so obssessed with 'multiculturalism' that your beliefs won't even let you question whether someone who claims to be British is or is not for fear of sounding 'racist'.

Do you consider Mikel KEssler to be British? I haven't heard anyone claim this, even though Kessler has an English mother at least...

[jamesmcdonnell]

You're a prat, I'm not wasting any more breath on your spurious argument. It's quite clear you cannot handle the fact that Lennox is an English heavyweight champion and are bitter about it. Poor you.

[Lenny]

So that's the first 12 years in Britain, then back 11 years later. If he says he's British and opens up a school for kids in east london that's more than good enough for me. I think people are more likely to renounce his Britishness due to his success, such is the mentality in this country.

[JC]

I think people are more likely to renounce his Britishness due to his success, such is the mentality in this country.

Not to sure about that, I know there's this perception that we don't like winners but I don't fully buy into it. Look at Greg Rusedski, the press and the public were all calling him Canadian, then when he won a few tourniments he became British.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Fact is, even if Lennox was Mongolian, I'd still rate him as a fighter. It's amazing how many people try and divest him of his Englishness through bitterness.

Had he been a perennial failure, I'm sure the same people would have been going on about British 'horizontal heavyweights' whenever his name was mentioned.

TWATS

[pundit]

Lewis' decision to move to Canada in the first place was taken by his mother, he can hardly have helped the fact he spent his early boxing career in Canada can he now?

12, early teens, wow! A whole year out. Fact is, he was born and raised here, he didn't just apply for a British passport after being born somewhere else.

Yes, it was partly a business decision, so what, born and raised sonny boy, born and raised.

Oh so 'being raised' only counts for the first 12 years of one's life? what about the ensuing 11 years he spent in Canada AND more importantly fight for Canada in the OLympics at age 23....Hmmmm

You just want to claim him as British because he was so successful, or because you are so obssessed with 'multiculturalism' that your beliefs won't even let you question whether someone who claims to be British is or is not for fear of sounding 'racist'.

Do you consider Mikel KEssler to be British? I haven't heard anyone claim this, even though Kessler has an English mother at least...

Why don't we let Lennox (and Kessler) decide what they are?

[Chesney_Chambers]

Lennox is as British as the Spitfire - End Of

[pundit]

I think people are more likely to renounce his Britishness due to his success, such is the mentality in this country.

Not to sure about that, I know there's this perception that we don't like winners but I don't fully buy into it. Look at Greg Rusedski, the press and the public were all calling him Canadian, then when he won a few tourniments he became British.

Well, Rusedski talks acts grins like a North American, Lennox does not. Lennox grew up between the worlds really and settled for the UK, Greg became a Brit because he wanted to play tennis at Wimbledon.

In the end it's pretty immaterial anyway. Only the folks themselves can determine who and what they are.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Lennox himself claims alliegence to three countries, Jamaica, the UK and Canada. Rightly so, one is his genetic heritage, one his country of birth, and one the place that started him on the path to the undisputed title. He used to wear a jacket emblazoned with the flags of all three countries.

[pundit]

Lennox himself claims alliegence to three countries, Jamaica, the UK and Canada. Rightly so, one is his genetic heritage, one his country of birth, and one the place that started him on the path to the undisputed title. He used to wear a jacket emblazoned with the flags of all three countries.

I like that.

[E]

You're a prat, I'm not wasting any more breath on your spurious argument. It's quite clear you cannot handle the fact that Lennox is an English heavyweight champion and are bitter about it. Poor you.

I am a prat? Oh yes that old mechanism - "if you're struggling to come on top in an argument, just insult the other party and then refuse to engage in further argument, climing not to have the time to waste..."

Great intellect - this may be one of the reasons you have failed to become a successful writer.

ANd so, you sir, are a pudendum. But seriously - do you regard Kessler as being English?

So that's the first 12 years in Britain, then back 11 years later. If he says he's British and opens up a school for kids in east london that's more than good enough for me. I think people are more likely to renounce his Britishness due to his success, such is the mentality in this country.

THis may be an intersting article to you:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2001/11/ ... 11115.html


Well, I am willing to settle on Lewis being part British - but as he himself said:

"I see myself as world champion representing the whole world,"