Top 10 HW's that did not gain championship status.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 11 Jan 2007, 13:47

I could not find an old thread that asks this question but I recollected that it exists. So I add this in a rather whimsical manner.

Some names that might be given consideration for one reason or another IMHO would be.

Jeanette
Quarry
Moore....ok yeah surprise surprise....
Page?
Greb
Langford

(I can not reveal the actual list that was shared with me by God Almighty or I would have to strike down anyone who viewed it. So I just put out some food for thought. Mostly to throw you off the scent of the real list.)

Just 6 that I quickly thought of . Yeah I know a Page vs Greb affair would be ridiculous....but those were some names that came to mind quickly. Please treat my suggestion with utmost respect or face the dire consequences that anyone faces if they challenge a moderators vast knowledge and authority in these matters.

I do think Page showed promise but he just never developed into what he could have been IMHO. So he probably would not truly make the cut. OK not nearly make the cut. On the other hand....I do have that unfair advantage of knowing.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 11 Jan 2007, 13:57

Actually, Page won an alphabet title when he beat Coetzee. In fact, the title he won was really the on that Ali relinquished when he retired, so there’s actually some legitimacy to his title.

Anyway, here’s my list.

Wills
Langford
Jeanette
Jackson
T. Sharkey
Young
Lyle
McVey
Quarry
Godfrey

I didn’t include anyone who held any of the accepted alphabet titles. Of course, Langford, Wills, Jeanette and McVey all held the “colored” HW title, which was probably more of an accomplishment than any of the alpha title holders in the past 15 years or so, but I included them anyway.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 11 Jan 2007, 14:04

To see Lyle in there is a surprise...not that he does not deserve consideration. So you see that fight as a very high profile defense for Ali I take it. Why not Greb? Didn't he do enough with Tunney to be elgible?

Friedie · Post by **Friedie** » 11 Jan 2007, 14:04

How do you define "Top 10 HW" ?

I think there have been Hundreds of Heavyweights that had a Top 10 status sometime in their Careers even if you only consider the time before the different Alphabet Organisations and Rankings...

If you define it as Top 10 ATG Heavyweights the list would be quite short I suppose.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 11 Jan 2007, 14:06

Friedie wrote:How do you define "Top 10 HW" ?

I think there have been Hundreds of Heavyweights that had a Top 10 status sometime in their Careers even if you only consider the time before the different Alphabet Organisations and Rankings...

If you define it as Top 10 ATG Heavyweights the list would be quite short I suppose.

Sorry I shoud have been more clear. Just the best 10 guys who did not achieve champion status. Some would be considered better than many champions but sadly lived in an era where they could not take down the current champ or champs...e.g. Jerry Quarry

Friedie · Post by **Friedie** » 11 Jan 2007, 14:09

BoxBuzz wrote:
Sorry I shoud have been more clear. Just the best 10 guys who did not achieve champion status. Some would be considered better than many champions but sadly lived in an era where they could not take down the current champ or champs...e.g. Jerry Quarry

ah... I would add some Old-Timers:

Georges Carpentier
Paolino Uzcudun
King Levinsky
Young Stribling
Ernie Schaaf
Tommy Farr
Billy Conn

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 11 Jan 2007, 14:28

BoxBuzz wrote:To see Lyle in there is a surprise...not that he does not deserve consideration. So you see that fight as a very high profile defense for Ali I take it. Why not Greb? Didn't he do enough with Tunney to be elgible?

I don’t have Greb ranked at HW, as he fought more at MW and LHW.

Lyle had decent skills and excellent physical attributes. He also does quite well in my head to head comparison against 77 other all-time HWs.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 11 Jan 2007, 14:36

The Great John L wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote:To see Lyle in there is a surprise...not that he does not deserve consideration. So you see that fight as a very high profile defense for Ali I take it. Why not Greb? Didn't he do enough with Tunney to be elgible?
I don’t have Greb ranked at HW, as he fought more at MW and LHW.

Lyle had decent skills and excellent physical attributes. He also does quite well in my head to head comparison against 77 other all-time HWs.

Maybe I should change the heading to "Open Weight" because this is meant to be head to head with no limits. But NOT pound for pound. I did not want this to play out where to be HW limits the field.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 11 Jan 2007, 15:42

Bert Gilroy, of course.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 11 Jan 2007, 16:12

"if it ain't scottish it's crap"

(Mike Myers as the shopkeeper of "Everything Scottish" a recurring character on Saturday Night Live.)

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 11 Jan 2007, 16:16

My attempt (excellent question, by the way) - I just went to my top 50 HW list and selected those that never won a title, and added a bit on:

1 Sam Langford
2 Harry Wills
3 Peter Jackson
4 Joe Jeanette
5 Jerry Quarry
6 Archie Moore
7 Elmer Ray
8 Jimmy Young
9 Cleveland Williams
10 George Godfrey
11 Sam McVea
12 Ron Lyle
13 Billy Conn
14 Tom Sharkey
15 Earnie Shavers
16 Lee Q Murray
17 Eddie Machen
18 Tommy Loughran
19 Jimmy Bivins
20 Young Stribling

Honorable mention: Joe Choynski, Billy Miske, Larry Gains, Paolino Uzcudun, Earne Schaaf, Harry Kid Matthews, Zora Folley, Razor Ruddock, David Tua.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 11 Jan 2007, 16:17

Remember Greb? they don't have to be HW to qualify....this really should be "open weight" but not pound for pound thinking.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 11 Jan 2007, 16:18

BoxBuzz wrote:Remember Greb? they don't have to be HW to qualify....this really should be "open weight" but not pound for pound thinking.

Greb Greb.... who was this again....?

He'd probably in the bottom top 10.

JC · Post by JC » 11 Jan 2007, 16:35

Collins2000 wrote:Bert Gilroy, of course.

Don't forget Razor Ruddock

hebrew_hammer · Post by **hebrew_hammer** » 11 Jan 2007, 17:55

Skill-wise... Golota, if he weren't an absolute head case

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 11 Jan 2007, 18:40

J-C wrote:
Collins2000 wrote:Bert Gilroy, of course.

Don't forget Razor Ruddock

Or Bruce Woodcock. Apparently the best heavy ever to come out of the UK. At least that's what someone on here says and no one has ever called him about it so it must be taken as fact.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 12 Jan 2007, 05:36

Collins2000 wrote:Or Bruce Woodcock. Apparently the best heavy ever to come out of the UK. At least that's what someone on here says and no one has ever called him about it so it must be taken as fact.

Bruce Woodcock is probably the best heavyweight to come out of Doncaster

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 12 Jan 2007, 07:23

Arron Pryor!.... 8)

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 12 Jan 2007, 09:15

Ray Mercer (although he held a WBO belt)

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 12 Jan 2007, 10:06

This sin't going to be a popular choice but Joe Bugner had a sound defence and good stamina. He was skilled although often fought wiothout much aggression. There are a number of champs he could have beaten.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 12 Jan 2007, 10:47

Ezzard wrote:This sin't going to be a popular choice but Joe Bugner had a sound defence and good stamina. He was skilled although often fought wiothout much aggression. There are a number of champs he could have beaten.

Certainly would have created problems for many, as he did Frazier and Ali.

Victor*KC · Post by **Victor*KC** » 12 Jan 2007, 12:34

Zora Folley

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 12 Jan 2007, 12:41

Joe belongs there IMHO.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 12 Jan 2007, 12:42

BoxBuzz wrote:Joe belongs there IMHO.

Above any of the guys on my top 20 list?

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 12 Jan 2007, 17:19

Decagon wrote:1. Sam Langford
2. Jimmy Young
3. Earnie Shavers
4. Archie Moore
5. Harry Wills
6. Joe Jeannette
7. Jerry Quarry
8. Cleveland Williams
9. Ike Ibeabuchi
10. David Tua
11. Elmer Ray
12. Oscar Bonavena
13. George Godfrey
14. Ron Lyle
15. Roland LaStarza
16. Sam McVey
17. Larry Gaines
18. Gerry Cooney
19. Seal Harris
20. Joe Bugner
21. John Henry Lewis
22. Tiger Jack Fox
23. Alfredo Evangelista
24. Sandy Fergueson
25. Frank Moran

The list has comical qualities.