I recently watched a documentary that claimed Ali was overdosing on a controversial medication to get ready for the Holmes fight.
The Good-The drug made him drop weight, he physically looked great
The Bad-The drug sapped his strength. no pep, energy wise he was spent
Is this true? or is this just another attempt to rewrite boxing history by putting the blame for the outcome on his doctor?
True or not, that fight was the first time i actually cried over a boxing match. I actually believed the hype, Ali was experienced, Holmes was green and Ali could pull off a miracle. Everyone who watched the press heard the slurred speech, strangely it was ignored.
Touchy Ali-Holmes fight question?
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HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
One of the more ironic things about the Holmes fight was that even though Ali was talking trash, hyping the fight up, talking how he'd be the 4x HW champion...nobody seemed to care. Whether that was because everybody was under the impression that an Ali win was as good as done, or simply people became too used to Ali's 'act'.
Ali was showing great signs of deterioration after the Foreman fight. When he fought Lyle it was apparent he was fighting heavy footed. And then he started fighting a bunch of bums and some of them went the distance (Alfredo Evangelista). He was given a gift decision over Jimmy Young. And if it wasn't enough, he lost to a guy who only had 7 pro bouts in Leon Spinks. Then he rematched Spinks and it still went the distance.
But all anyone could see was: 'Look! Ali won the title for the third time!'
People was buying into the bullshit, and probably sadder is that Ali was as well.
The thing with the thyroid drug that he took before the Holmes fight was a misdiagnosis by a doctor at the Mayo Clinic where Ali was at for three days doing tests so that he could get a license. It was clear, even before getting on the drug (for a disease he didnt even have) that he was messed up. He missed the target on the 'finger to nose' test and didn't hop on one foot with the ability that would have been expected of him.
It was a combination of the two. The drug made him look great, gave him more energy, but it soon gave him an adverse affect as time wore on. He had Parkinson's syndrome by that time easily---the drug just made it worse.
And maybe the sad thing about it is that Holmes wasn't really being as aggressive with Ali as he was with other opponents, yet Ali only managed to land 10 punches in 10 rounds and was bleeding and would have ultimately been knocked out cold.
Think of it this way, also, had Ali fought John Tate, like he wanted, or Mike Weaver, Ali would have been beaten more brutally than what Holmes did to him. Those men were bangers---no they weren't on Holmes class, but you can't really teach a puncher like Weaver/Tate to be 'gentle' in the ring either, that's not their style.
Ali was showing great signs of deterioration after the Foreman fight. When he fought Lyle it was apparent he was fighting heavy footed. And then he started fighting a bunch of bums and some of them went the distance (Alfredo Evangelista). He was given a gift decision over Jimmy Young. And if it wasn't enough, he lost to a guy who only had 7 pro bouts in Leon Spinks. Then he rematched Spinks and it still went the distance.
But all anyone could see was: 'Look! Ali won the title for the third time!'
People was buying into the bullshit, and probably sadder is that Ali was as well.
The thing with the thyroid drug that he took before the Holmes fight was a misdiagnosis by a doctor at the Mayo Clinic where Ali was at for three days doing tests so that he could get a license. It was clear, even before getting on the drug (for a disease he didnt even have) that he was messed up. He missed the target on the 'finger to nose' test and didn't hop on one foot with the ability that would have been expected of him.
It was a combination of the two. The drug made him look great, gave him more energy, but it soon gave him an adverse affect as time wore on. He had Parkinson's syndrome by that time easily---the drug just made it worse.
And maybe the sad thing about it is that Holmes wasn't really being as aggressive with Ali as he was with other opponents, yet Ali only managed to land 10 punches in 10 rounds and was bleeding and would have ultimately been knocked out cold.
Think of it this way, also, had Ali fought John Tate, like he wanted, or Mike Weaver, Ali would have been beaten more brutally than what Holmes did to him. Those men were bangers---no they weren't on Holmes class, but you can't really teach a puncher like Weaver/Tate to be 'gentle' in the ring either, that's not their style.
you bring up a good point "buying into the bullshit".
Looking back on it everyone knew something was terribly wrong. There were discussions about Ali's word slurring and they were promptly blown off by the press, the ali camp, and everyone who looked at him through rose colored glasses. That included a 15 year old kid from St Louis...Me
Hell, even Saturday Night Live did comedy skits about his condition..Jesus, why could'nt anyone see it!
You're right about another thing too. Larry Holmes was one class act. Very few fighters would have the grace to ease up on Ali in that fight. Holmes was'nt truely recognized for his act of mercy and in fact may have been punished by the public for winning the Ali fight.
Looking back on it everyone knew something was terribly wrong. There were discussions about Ali's word slurring and they were promptly blown off by the press, the ali camp, and everyone who looked at him through rose colored glasses. That included a 15 year old kid from St Louis...Me
Hell, even Saturday Night Live did comedy skits about his condition..Jesus, why could'nt anyone see it!
You're right about another thing too. Larry Holmes was one class act. Very few fighters would have the grace to ease up on Ali in that fight. Holmes was'nt truely recognized for his act of mercy and in fact may have been punished by the public for winning the Ali fight.
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HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
Larry Holmes got a bum steer from that fight something awful. When he won it, everybody hated Larry Holmes for beating their 'hero'. Holmes was never really excepted despite winning the WBC title over Norton and wouldn't be really appreciated until the last few years in reflection of his career.
Holmes had alot of knocks against him:
-He followed Ali, much like other champions in the past had the misfortune of doing, like Ezzard Charles who followed Joe Louis and Floyd Patterson who followed Marciano, Marvin Hart and Tommy Burns who followed Jim Jeffries. It takes a helluva lot to get over with not just the press but the people, especially when your now claiming a title that was once in the hands of everybody's favorite.
-Holmes wasn't that very exciting to watch. He wasn't a braggart, nor did he hype up fights or played to the crowd, he was just a fighter and nothing more. So that didn't do him any favors either. Plus Holmes seemed to have the attitude to do only enough to win a fight, rather than have a killer instinct.
-He fought in a very weak era, let's face it. He wasn't fighting the Frazier's, the Norton's, the Foreman's like Ali was. Their was a shortage of intriguing fights for Holmes, let alone challenging. His best opponents were arguably Shavers and Cooney and that's about it.
I think, myself, that Larry Holmes is better than what many rank him as. And I think, honestly, had Holmes fought an Ali with better capabilities than what he did have in 1980 he would have beaten Ali. Holmes used to be Ali's sparring partner and knew all of Ali's tricks and knew how Ali used psychology to his advantage----if you watch the fight Ali tries to 'psyche' Holmes a few times, but Holmes ignores Ali and keeps fighting.
As much as I do like Ali, I think the same Holmes who fought him on that night, would have beaten the Ali of 1975 onwards with very few problems.
Holmes had alot of knocks against him:
-He followed Ali, much like other champions in the past had the misfortune of doing, like Ezzard Charles who followed Joe Louis and Floyd Patterson who followed Marciano, Marvin Hart and Tommy Burns who followed Jim Jeffries. It takes a helluva lot to get over with not just the press but the people, especially when your now claiming a title that was once in the hands of everybody's favorite.
-Holmes wasn't that very exciting to watch. He wasn't a braggart, nor did he hype up fights or played to the crowd, he was just a fighter and nothing more. So that didn't do him any favors either. Plus Holmes seemed to have the attitude to do only enough to win a fight, rather than have a killer instinct.
-He fought in a very weak era, let's face it. He wasn't fighting the Frazier's, the Norton's, the Foreman's like Ali was. Their was a shortage of intriguing fights for Holmes, let alone challenging. His best opponents were arguably Shavers and Cooney and that's about it.
I think, myself, that Larry Holmes is better than what many rank him as. And I think, honestly, had Holmes fought an Ali with better capabilities than what he did have in 1980 he would have beaten Ali. Holmes used to be Ali's sparring partner and knew all of Ali's tricks and knew how Ali used psychology to his advantage----if you watch the fight Ali tries to 'psyche' Holmes a few times, but Holmes ignores Ali and keeps fighting.
As much as I do like Ali, I think the same Holmes who fought him on that night, would have beaten the Ali of 1975 onwards with very few problems.
Ali treated many of his opponents like Frazier so discracefully I was actually happy when Holmes kicked his ass.IrishRufusMurphy wrote:Larry Holmes got a bum steer from that fight something awful. When he won it, everybody hated Larry Holmes for beating their 'hero'. Holmes was never really excepted despite winning the WBC title over Norton and wouldn't be really appreciated until the last few years in reflection of his career.
Holmes had alot of knocks against him:
-He followed Ali, much like other champions in the past had the misfortune of doing, like Ezzard Charles who followed Joe Louis and Floyd Patterson who followed Marciano, Marvin Hart and Tommy Burns who followed Jim Jeffries. It takes a helluva lot to get over with not just the press but the people, especially when your now claiming a title that was once in the hands of everybody's favorite.
-Holmes wasn't that very exciting to watch. He wasn't a braggart, nor did he hype up fights or played to the crowd, he was just a fighter and nothing more. So that didn't do him any favors either. Plus Holmes seemed to have the attitude to do only enough to win a fight, rather than have a killer instinct.
-He fought in a very weak era, let's face it. He wasn't fighting the Frazier's, the Norton's, the Foreman's like Ali was. Their was a shortage of intriguing fights for Holmes, let alone challenging. His best opponents were arguably Shavers and Cooney and that's about it.
I think, myself, that Larry Holmes is better than what many rank him as. And I think, honestly, had Holmes fought an Ali with better capabilities than what he did have in 1980 he would have beaten Ali. Holmes used to be Ali's sparring partner and knew all of Ali's tricks and knew how Ali used psychology to his advantage----if you watch the fight Ali tries to 'psyche' Holmes a few times, but Holmes ignores Ali and keeps fighting.
As much as I do like Ali, I think the same Holmes who fought him on that night, would have beaten the Ali of 1975 onwards with very few problems.
Holmes could have KO'd in 2 rounds if he tried