Top 10 HW's that did not gain championship status.

[The Great John L]

I just laugh out loud it when the presence or absence of a single fighter on a subjective list causes some to get all in a tizzy.

It’s not the absence of Quarry that has generated this discussion, but the fighters you have rated ahead of him. I think most that have read this list either think you’re a troll with this list, or a bit removed from reality.

Now....having establihed that, let's take your examples of Mac Foster, Peralta, and Evangelista vs Quarry
All had pretty much equal skill as Quarry, better speed, better footwork and were less prone to blocking punches with their face.

I think Foster blocked more punches with his face than Quarry did when they fought each other. Maybe you missed that fight?

Are we talking about Alfredo Evangelista? Equal skill and better speed and footwork than Quarry? And in case you missed my earlier question, please list the world class HWs that he beat? Rather than trust our own judgements, most people are wise enough to realize that accomplishments actually mean something.

And yes, Peralta was quick and quite skilled, but exactly what world class HWs did he beat?

Yes, he beat Lyle, Foster and an ageing Shavers, but he also lost to a journeyman and and drew a way past his prime Patterson.
Foster on the other hand, beat Cleveland Williiams and took Ali the distance (IE, the big picture)

Quarry beat an aging Shavers? Maybe you weren’t aware of the fact that Shavers had a late start on his career, was only 28yo and was just approaching his prime when he was trashed by Quarry.

Yes, Mac Foster beat a 36yo Williams. I don’t think ANYBODY would have considered him much of a threat at that stage of his career. Let’s see, Spencer had lost his previous 3 by KO, O’Halloran was a decent fringe contender/journeyman, Folley was ancient. Was there anybody else? And who exactly was it that ended his undefeated streak? I think Foster is pretty underrated these days, but it’s a real stretch to have him rated ahead of Quarry.

And since you like looking at the big picture, let’s see, Quarry beat

Patterson
Spencer (the top 5 ranked Spencer)
Mathis
Foster
Middleton
Lyle
Shavers

Add some fringe contender euro fighters like London, Bodell and Zanon (who just happened to have a couple wins over Evangelista) and that’s a pretty big picture.

[Collins2000]

I just laugh out loud it when the presence or absence of a single fighter on a subjective list causes some to get all in a tizzy.

It’s not the absence of Quarry that has generated this discussion, but the fighters you have rated ahead of him. I think most that have read this list either think you’re a troll with this list, or a bit removed from reality.

Now....having establihed that, let's take your examples of Mac Foster, Peralta, and Evangelista vs Quarry
All had pretty much equal skill as Quarry, better speed, better footwork and were less prone to blocking punches with their face.

I think Foster blocked more punches with his face than Quarry did when they fought each other. Maybe you missed that fight?

Are we talking about Alfredo Evangelista? Equal skill and better speed and footwork than Quarry? And in case you missed my earlier question, please list the world class HWs that he beat? Rather than trust our own judgements, most people are wise enough to realize that accomplishments actually mean something.

And yes, Peralta was quick and quite skilled, but exactly what world class HWs did he beat?

Yes, he beat Lyle, Foster and an ageing Shavers, but he also lost to a journeyman and and drew a way past his prime Patterson.
Foster on the other hand, beat Cleveland Williiams and took Ali the distance (IE, the big picture)

Quarry beat an aging Shavers? Maybe you weren’t aware of the fact that Shavers had a late start on his career, was only 28yo and was just approaching his prime when he was trashed by Quarry.

Yes, Mac Foster beat a 36yo Williams. I don’t think ANYBODY would have considered him much of a threat at that stage of his career. Let’s see, Spencer had lost his previous 3 by KO, O’Halloran was a decent fringe contender/journeyman, Folley was ancient. Was there anybody else? And who exactly was it that ended his undefeated streak? I think Foster is pretty underrated these days, but it’s a real stretch to have him rated ahead of Quarry.

And since you like looking at the big picture, let’s see, Quarry beat

Patterson
Spencer (the top 5 ranked Spencer)
Mathis
Foster
Middleton
Lyle
Shavers

Add some fringe contender euro fighters like London, Bodell and Zanon (who just happened to have a couple wins over Evangelista) and that’s a pretty big picture.

A bit removed from reality? That's an understatement. He's the latest Mad Hatter to start squatting in here. The funniest thing is that he claims to be Mr Reasonable but when he lays out his 'logic' you can see he applies different criteria to a fighter depending on whether he likes them or not. Totally crap list.

[BoxBuzz]

cosand...this is a tough bunch...they are relentless and demand facts and factoids be dealt with accordingly. Don't let them intimidate you.

[The Great John L]

A bit removed from reality? That's an understatement. He's the latest Mad Hatter to start squatting in here. The funniest thing is that he claims to be Mr Reasonable but when he lays out his 'logic' you can see he applies different criteria to a fighter depending on whether he likes them or not. Totally crap list.

Probably just trolling.

[Collins2000]

A bit removed from reality? That's an understatement. He's the latest Mad Hatter to start squatting in here. The funniest thing is that he claims to be Mr Reasonable but when he lays out his 'logic' you can see he applies different criteria to a fighter depending on whether he likes them or not. Totally crap list.

Probably just trolling.

Did you notice a couple of times he has mentioned "Me and my family are well known in boxing..."? Just the other day I almost fell off my chair when he stated over at the current scene something like "The few people here who really know who I am...". Hilarious stuff. Maybe it's Butterbean?

[The Great John L]

A bit removed from reality? That's an understatement. He's the latest Mad Hatter to start squatting in here. The funniest thing is that he claims to be Mr Reasonable but when he lays out his 'logic' you can see he applies different criteria to a fighter depending on whether he likes them or not. Totally crap list.

Probably just trolling.

Did you notice a couple of times he has mentioned "Me and my family are well known in boxing..."? Just the other day I almost fell off my chair when he stated over at the current scene something like "The few people here who really know who I am...". Hilarious stuff. Maybe it's Butterbean?

I think Bean's a little more personable.

[Martin Sosa Cameron]

LUIS FIRPO

OSCAR BONAVENA

GREGORIO PERALTA

[Collins2000]

LUIS FIRPO

OSCAR BONAVENA

GREGORIO PERALTA

No, I doubt cosand is Luis Firpo or Oscar Bonavena - they are dead.

It could be Peralta though as he does seem to be carrying a flame for him.

[cosand]

BoxBuzz



Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 8714
Location: In a Van...Down by the river.
Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:15 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

cosand...this is a tough bunch...they are relentless and demand facts and factoids be dealt with accordingly. Don't let them intimidate you.

LOL..Not to worry....I don't get intimidated. They are far from "tough", more like a wannabe historian coffee clutch.

Factoids more then fact, and the new term.."Trutiness" is more like it when it copmes to this crew.
Take a conclusion and then desperately seek talking points and antidotal evidence to support it, these guys are some of the best I've seen at it.
Those in the UK should come to the US, the Bush administration has a slot for them !


It is a clear case of the difference between being "Interested in boxing" and really "knowing" boxing. To bad their interst is not joined with a grasp of the finer points.

Like I said before, My name and the names of 6 family members are in the data base these guys sift through. I have to also laugh, because I am willing to bet when the guys they talk about actually fought, they were either unborn, or getting poop washed off their arses by their moms (mums)

Who knows, when they grow up, or get a clue, I might well have done them a service, by educating them early on the sport they show an interest in, but have at the moment, nothing more then a thumbnail view on.

[The Great John L]

Take a conclusion and then desperately seek talking points and antidotal evidence…

Antidotal evidence. This guy is great!!!

[cosand]

Oh, and by the way guys.....and this is all too telling, and proves my point.

As those who fancy themselves as boxing historians...and who seem to have such a dubious interest in my posts, both here and in current scene, it is funny that by the information I have given out little by little, that while you might not know who I am...the fact that you can't at least tell who I am related to from the history of the sport, speaks VOLUMES.

I am the worse enemy of the anonymity I try to maintain, and you guys are miles off on your speculation. The "few who know" are those who figured it out and asked me to confirm, and those I felt would keep it on the down low that got an answer.

I have seen the crap guys get on here when ID themselves. NO thanks. If one of you would trash my family, I would have to do something that would make yer mums go out and buy a black dress, and I hear that is not her color !
LOL....relax boys, just joking.
Some of you take yourselves WAAAAY too seriously.
So I rate a coupe of fighters over another...SO WHAT ?..My opinion, and my reasons are sound, and trust me, based on a greater insight into the finer points of the sport then yours...even if you don't like them, or are confused by the facts.
In any case, it's all good....Enjoy the day!

[Collins2000]

Oh, and by the way guys.....and this is all too telling, and proves my point.

As those who fancy themselves as boxing historians...and who seem to have such a dubious interest in my posts, both here and in current scene, it is funny that by the information I have given out little by little, that while you might not know who I am...the fact that you can't at least tell who I am related to from the history of the sport, speaks VOLUMES.

I am the worse enemy of the anonymity I try to maintain, and you guys are miles off on your speculation. The "few who know" are those who figured it out and asked me to confirm, and those I felt would keep it on the down low that got an answer.

I have seen the crap guys get on here when ID themselves. NO thanks. If one of you would trash my family, I would have to do something that would make yer mums go out and buy a black dress, and I hear that is not her color !
LOL....relax boys, just joking.
Some of you take yourselves WAAAAY too seriously.
So I rate a coupe of fighters over another...SO WHAT ?..My opinion, and my reasons are sound, and trust me, based on a greater insight into the finer points of the sport then yours...even if you don't like them, or are confused by the facts.
In any case, it's all good....Enjoy the day!

Hahahahaha, you crack me up, mate. You are a complete buffoon - squat dog #2.

For your info, squat dog was another dreamer with a big mouth and ideas way above his station.

[BoxBuzz]

I'm old enough to remember "I've got a secret". Good show....seems we have found a lost episode perhaps?

[Collins2000]

I'm old enough to remember "I've got a secret". Good show....seems we have found a lost episode perhaps?

Are you implying cosand is a cross dresser? The mentioning of his love for women's clothes was the giveaway. Nicely spotted.

Anyway, you've already mentioned there is room for everyone here. In fact, the more zanier they are the better they fit in.

Now, let's get back to the Bert and Ginger show.

[Jaclem]

..cosand..love child of butterbean? just a guess.....