the great wee fighter Tommy Burgoyne, whom I had the privilege of knowing has left us...may God receive his soul...
Jim.
Rest in Peace champ...
thanks KOKid, your right Ginger Sadd was a top man and him and Bert are definitely among some of the greatest fighters that ever lived..!
it really frustrates though because people just don't want to know...it's that teenage approach to the fight game "wow he's the world champion-of course he's the best," well those of us who study the Sport know that's more often than not "absolute rubbish"
McAvoy too doesn't always get the historical accolades either when it comes to the greatest middleweights of All-time, and there is No Doubt he was better than his 'MW' contemporaries mid-to late 1930s, but refused 'his' shot at the MW title!
Like I said on the 10 Best British fighters thread...None of his contemporaries could have done the same against the Great L-HWs McAvoy competed with & even beat ...see the link;
http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/cbzforum ... #post52998
it really frustrates though because people just don't want to know...it's that teenage approach to the fight game "wow he's the world champion-of course he's the best," well those of us who study the Sport know that's more often than not "absolute rubbish"
McAvoy too doesn't always get the historical accolades either when it comes to the greatest middleweights of All-time, and there is No Doubt he was better than his 'MW' contemporaries mid-to late 1930s, but refused 'his' shot at the MW title!
Like I said on the 10 Best British fighters thread...None of his contemporaries could have done the same against the Great L-HWs McAvoy competed with & even beat ...see the link;
http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/cbzforum ... #post52998
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Collins2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4175
- Joined: 06 May 2002, 06:13
Jimbo, I'm not sure there are too many regular posters on here who fall into your 'teenage approach to the game' labelling.jimglen wrote:thanks KOKid, your right Ginger Sadd was a top man and him and Bert are definitely among some of the greatest fighters that ever lived..!
it really frustrates though because people just don't want to know...it's that teenage approach to the fight game "wow he's the world champion-of course he's the best," well those of us who study the Sport know that's more often than not "absolute rubbish"
McAvoy too doesn't always get the historical accolades either when it comes to the greatest middleweights of All-time, and there is No Doubt he was better than his 'MW' contemporaries mid-to late 1930s, but refused 'his' shot at the MW title!
Like I said on the 10 Best British fighters thread...None of his contemporaries could have done the same against the Great L-HWs McAvoy competed with & even beat ...see the link;
http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/cbzforum ... #post52998
I also think you should mention when claiming Bert was one of the greatest fighters who ever lived, that he is in fact your grandfather so you are not exactly objective on this matter.
Now don't get all bent out of shape, I'm just pointing out that many people on here know what they are talking about and it is not ignorance that stops them rating Bert as one of the greatest fighters who ever lived.
most people here know Bert Gilroy was my grandfather...and a lot of people here also know that BECAUSE Bert was my granddad I made it my "mandate" to say NOTHING that I didn't have "documentation" for!
I have well over 500 reports on the man, ratings, fight reports - including all the controvercial ones, statements & claims, forcasts & predictions...
many people, far too many rate fighters based on World title achievements (they means even less nowadays with all the alphabet titles), Gilroy & McAvoy PROVED themselves as greats by competing with success WELL above their middleweight status. In the late 30s Mac's middleweight contemporaries didn't prove the same and in Britain during the 40s Bert's middleweight contemporaries didn't either!
Collins you seem to be more pre-occupied with Bert than me and I even try to be a voice for OTHER fighters too who are "worth" of the title of great I.E. Ginger Sadd, Len Harvey & Len Johnson, Jack Casey, Ernie Roderick, Eric Boon, Jim Brady, Arthur Danahar and there are "literally" dozens.
WHY do you have a hard time believing that these men were great fighters and I do mean great!
I have well over 500 reports on the man, ratings, fight reports - including all the controvercial ones, statements & claims, forcasts & predictions...
many people, far too many rate fighters based on World title achievements (they means even less nowadays with all the alphabet titles), Gilroy & McAvoy PROVED themselves as greats by competing with success WELL above their middleweight status. In the late 30s Mac's middleweight contemporaries didn't prove the same and in Britain during the 40s Bert's middleweight contemporaries didn't either!
Collins you seem to be more pre-occupied with Bert than me and I even try to be a voice for OTHER fighters too who are "worth" of the title of great I.E. Ginger Sadd, Len Harvey & Len Johnson, Jack Casey, Ernie Roderick, Eric Boon, Jim Brady, Arthur Danahar and there are "literally" dozens.
WHY do you have a hard time believing that these men were great fighters and I do mean great!
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Collins2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4175
- Joined: 06 May 2002, 06:13
Jimbo, I don't have a problem believing they were great fighters; I know they were.jimglen wrote:most people here know Bert Gilroy was my grandfather...and a lot of people here also know that BECAUSE Bert was my granddad I made it my "mandate" to say NOTHING that I didn't have "documentation" for!
I have well over 500 reports on the man, ratings, fight reports - including all the controvercial ones, statements & claims, forcasts & predictions...
many people, far too many rate fighters based on World title achievements (they means even less nowadays with all the alphabet titles), Gilroy & McAvoy PROVED themselves as greats by competing with success WELL above their middleweight status. In the late 30s Mac's middleweight contemporaries didn't prove the same and in Britain during the 40s Bert's middleweight contemporaries didn't either!
Collins you seem to be more pre-occupied with Bert than me and I even try to be a voice for OTHER fighters too who are "worth" of the title of great I.E. Ginger Sadd, Len Harvey & Len Johnson, Jack Casey, Ernie Roderick, Eric Boon, Jim Brady, Arthur Danahar and there are "literally" dozens.
WHY do you have a hard time believing that these men were great fighters and I do mean great!
What I do have a problem with is you continually claiming that they were the greatest fighters of all time. This is not only insulting to the other knowledgable fans on here but, and more importantly, it is insulting to the memories of the fighters who were THE best at the time.
Your grandfather was a great fighter. He was nowhere near the greatest fighter at 160 pounds in the world at any time was he?
It's all based on "If only" and "maybe" and "but" isn't it, Jim?
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vagabundo55
- Heavyweight