Tommy Morrison.

[stujones]

Just been watching some old ESPN classic stuff which has featured Tommy Morrison. While the guy wasn't the most durable, I think his boxing has been very underated - the guy had some nice offensive moves and really knew how to punch. I have little doubt that he could have beaten many of the champions (other than Lewis and Holyfield) from the mid 90's on - if he didn't have his licence revoked. He would have wiped the floor with the likes of Chris Byrd IMO.

I was reading not so long ago on the various boxing websites that its now actually been reported that Tommy is "now" HIV negative. This is not just what Tommy has been saying (and most of us thinking he is barking mad), but actually reports his representives are saying based on medical results. He hasn't been granted his licence yet, but his representives are confident he should be granted it on medical ground (but he might have to go through another battery of tests based on his age).

It looks likely that a 38 year old Morrison will return before the year is out. Couple of questions.

1) If the tests have confirmed he is HIV negative, can he bankrupt the Nevada State Athletic Commision should he wish to take it to the courts for loss of earnings?

2) Do you think his comeback would spark any more interest in the Heavyweight devision.

3) At 38 and with a history of drug abuse - do you think he can make any damage in the current Heavyweight scene.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

It seems likely he may be a HIV sufferer who is taking drugs that treat HIV but can also mask the virus

1. Not unless he can prove he doesn't have HIV - and a none positive test is not proving he doeesn't have the virus. As the boxing commision were protecting its fighters hasn't always been his duty to prove he is clean? Why hasn't he tried to do this previously?

2/3. Maybe, if I was a HW I wouldn't get in the ring with him though for the obvious risks. Also whos he going to beat after been inactive for 10years? Sure he could bang a bit but his skills were never special.

[nickd]

Mark Fowler got in the Bill when it was well known he had the HIV, no reason why Morrison can't box in that case.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

Mark Fowler got in the Bill when it was well known he had the HIV, no reason why Morrison can't box in that case.

Mark used to be suich a nice lad - where did it all go wrong?

[jamesmcdonnell]

It was all downhill from Grange Hill, to Tucker's luck, then playing a miserable arse faced aids ridden fowler, and then mr nasty in the lameo version of the bill.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

Delete

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

It was all downhill from Grange Hill, to Tucker's luck, then playing a miserable arse faced aids ridden fowler, and then mr nasty in the lameo version of the bill.

Forgot about Grange Hill You must be a few years older than me James

Hes still managed to pack himself a nice 6figure job for the past 20years or so all the same

[stujones]

It seems likely he may be a HIV sufferer who is taking drugs that treat HIV but can also mask the virus

1. Not unless he can prove he doesn't have HIV - and a none positive test is not proving he doeesn't have the virus. As the boxing commision were protecting its fighters hasn't always been his duty to prove he is clean? Why hasn't he tried to do this previously?

2/3. Maybe, if I was a HW I wouldn't get in the ring with him though for the obvious risks. Also whos he going to beat after been inactive for 10years? Sure he could bang a bit but his skills were never special.

Regarding your first point, of course you should be bang on the money and I feel a bit stupid thinking of any possibilities. However, Tommy has claimed he is off HIV related medication for years and he was given a fight date in Arizona I believe but pulled out due to a training injury. Obviously, a lot of ifs and buts and undisclosed information- but if one state grants him a licence, it is likely most will follow their lead.

As for the second point again, alot will depend on how much he has left. I would tip the Morrison who lost to Lewis (and that was a poor performance) to overcome the lighter punching fighters of this generation - the likes of Chris Byrd and John Ruiz.

[jamesmcdonnell]

It was all downhill from Grange Hill, to Tucker's luck, then playing a miserable arse faced aids ridden fowler, and then mr nasty in the lameo version of the bill.

Forgot about Grange Hill You must be a few years older than me James

Hes still managed to pack himself a nice 6figure job for the past 20years or so all the same

6 figure? Most of the cast of enders are only on about 70k a year. The most popular get about 120,000 I think. I know this as a mate of mine played Tarik and I think they started him on 50k.

[KOJOE90]

Just been watching some old ESPN classic stuff which has featured Tommy Morrison. While the guy wasn't the most durable, I think his boxing has been very underated - the guy had some nice offensive moves and really knew how to punch. I have little doubt that he could have beaten many of the champions (other than Lewis and Holyfield) from the mid 90's on - if he didn't have his licence revoked. He would have wiped the floor with the likes of Chris Byrd IMO.

I agree that Morrison was a good offensive fighter, a natural puncher, with a fast powerfull left hook that was a danger to any fighter. His right hand had some 'pop' in it, but less at World level. The only fighter I can recall him stopping with a right hand was old Bobby Quarry, if my memory serves me well. Morrison looked like maybe the best heavyweight on the planet for about 3 rounds against Ray Mercer, but eventually Morrisons chin let him down which it often did at the highest level.

However I disagree that he would have wiped the floor against many of the mid 90's Heavyweights. He may have beaten some with his left hook, but sooner rather than later he would get caught on the chin by a heavy shot and it would be goodnight Duke.

Chris Byrd beat another dangerous left hooker in David Tua, so I see no reason why the tricky Byrd would have not been able to do the same against Morrison? Also Tua was much, much more durable than Morrison and may well have been the harder puncher.

If Morrison near his prime struggled to beat a near shot Carl Williams and a near shot Razor Rudduck, struggled to a draw against journeyman Ross Puritty I can't seeing him having much luck (other than a punchers chance) against the mid to late 90's versions of Mercer, Tua and McCall and Golota etc.

By the time Lennox had chewed him up and spat him out I'm not sure how much Tommy had left anyway to be honest.

Morrison was a dangerous left hooker with reasonable worldclass skills and lots of heart. But his durability and chin did and would always let him down against the top Heavyweights.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

It was all downhill from Grange Hill, to Tucker's luck, then playing a miserable arse faced aids ridden fowler, and then mr nasty in the lameo version of the bill.

Forgot about Grange Hill You must be a few years older than me James

Hes still managed to pack himself a nice 6figure job for the past 20years or so all the same

6 figure? Most of the cast of enders are only on about 70k a year. The most popular get about 120,000 I think. I know this as a mate of mine played Tarik and I think they started him on 50k.

Really the bloke who played Barry socialised with a director of a company I used to work for and was saying he was well into the 6figures and around 150k, could be talking the talk of course.

[rhino222]

fighters with various forms of hepatitis have been allowed to box, this is a million times more contageous than the HIV virus which dies in anything like atmospheric conditions.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

Just been watching some old ESPN classic stuff which has featured Tommy Morrison. While the guy wasn't the most durable, I think his boxing has been very underated - the guy had some nice offensive moves and really knew how to punch. I have little doubt that he could have beaten many of the champions (other than Lewis and Holyfield) from the mid 90's on - if he didn't have his licence revoked. He would have wiped the floor with the likes of Chris Byrd IMO.

I agree that Morrison was a good offensive fighter, a natural puncher, with a fast powerfull left hook that was a danger to any fighter. His right hand had some 'pop' in it, but less at World level. The only fighter I can recall him stopping with a right hand was old Bobby Quarry, if my memory serves me well. Morrison looked like maybe the best heavyweight on the planet for about 3 rounds against Ray Mercer, but eventually Morrisons chin let him down which it often did at the highest level.

However I disagree that he would have wiped the floor against many of the mid 90's Heavyweights. He may have beaten some with his left hook, but sooner rather than later he would get caught on the chin by a heavy shot and it would be goodnight Duke.

Chris Byrd beat another dangerous left hooker in David Tua, so I see no reason why the tricky Byrd would have not been able to do the same against Morrison? Also Tua was much, much more durable than Morrison and may well have been the harder puncher.

If Morrison near his prime struggled to beat a near shot Carl Williams and a near shot Razor Rudduck, struggled to a draw against journeyman Ross Puritty I can't seeing him having much luck (other than a punchers chance) against the mid to late 90's versions of Mercer, Tua and McCall and Golota etc.

By the time Lennox had chewed him up and spat him out I'm not sure how much Tommy had left anyway to be honest.

Morrison was a dangerous left hooker with reasonable worldclass skills and lots of heart. But his durability and chin did and would always let him down against the top Heavyweights.

Agree whole heartadly with this post. If Morrison were to put forth a legal case I think they'd be arguing they could have got a fight with Tyson when he was still a draw

[jamesmcdonnell]

Forgot about Grange Hill You must be a few years older than me James

Hes still managed to pack himself a nice 6figure job for the past 20years or so all the same

6 figure? Most of the cast of enders are only on about 70k a year. The most popular get about 120,000 I think. I know this as a mate of mine played Tarik and I think they started him on 50k.

Really the bloke who played Barry socialised with a director of a company I used to work for and was saying he was well into the 6figures and around 150k, could be talking the talk of course.

Barry was featuring heavily in the show at one point, so it's possible.

[stujones]

Just been watching some old ESPN classic stuff which has featured Tommy Morrison. While the guy wasn't the most durable, I think his boxing has been very underated - the guy had some nice offensive moves and really knew how to punch. I have little doubt that he could have beaten many of the champions (other than Lewis and Holyfield) from the mid 90's on - if he didn't have his licence revoked. He would have wiped the floor with the likes of Chris Byrd IMO.

I agree that Morrison was a good offensive fighter, a natural puncher, with a fast powerfull left hook that was a danger to any fighter. His right hand had some 'pop' in it, but less at World level. The only fighter I can recall him stopping with a right hand was old Bobby Quarry, if my memory serves me well. Morrison looked like maybe the best heavyweight on the planet for about 3 rounds against Ray Mercer, but eventually Morrisons chin let him down which it often did at the highest level.

However I disagree that he would have wiped the floor against many of the mid 90's Heavyweights. He may have beaten some with his left hook, but sooner rather than later he would get caught on the chin by a heavy shot and it would be goodnight Duke.

Chris Byrd beat another dangerous left hooker in David Tua, so I see no reason why the tricky Byrd would have not been able to do the same against Morrison? Also Tua was much, much more durable than Morrison and may well have been the harder puncher.

If Morrison near his prime struggled to beat a near shot Carl Williams and a near shot Razor Rudduck, struggled to a draw against journeyman Ross Puritty I can't seeing him having much luck (other than a punchers chance) against the mid to late 90's versions of Mercer, Tua and McCall and Golota etc.

By the time Lennox had chewed him up and spat him out I'm not sure how much Tommy had left anyway to be honest.

Morrison was a dangerous left hooker with reasonable worldclass skills and lots of heart. But his durability and chin did and would always let him down against the top Heavyweights.

Yes, my point was I don't think the Power of a Byrd or a Ruiz would have provided much problem. I don't think they would have been able to floor Morrison. Yes, he was undoubtedly chinny - put down many times in fights he won and lost. However, he did go 12 vs Foreman and even going 6 vs Lewis showed that his chin wasn't Herbie Hide esque, so I don't think non punchers like Byrd or Ruiz would have KO'd him.

Byrd vs Tua was a close fight (split decision wasn't it). Yes, it showed Byrd had a good chin but it also showed that Byrd could lose rounds vs the slow, easy to hit, Tua. Morrison for me had better skills, better speed, better variety than Tua. Sure, in a Tua vs Morrison (prime for prime) fight of course you'd have to back Tua all the way - one punch from Tua and its over. I'd also agree that Tua was the harder hitter - but he had alot less variety.

If Tua - with his renowned workrate could almost win a decision over Byrd (let alone mentioning the lucky decision Byrd had later on) - then I think Morrison superior boxing, superior hand and footspeed - would have been more than enough to win - and maybe by a late stoppage. You don't KO even a shot Pinklon Thomas in a round if you don't have some real power.

The four fighters you mentioned - are all big power punchers (McCall, Mercer, Tua, Golota) - I was looking at the lesser punchers who filled the top ten the likes of Byrd, Ruiz, Botha, Schulz, possibly even Moorer.

As for the Lewis fight, he showed a decentish chin (cause it was a kicking) but as you say did look lethargic. I remember Ian Darke (and Boxing Monthly reporters) that before the fight, Morrison looked poor in the public training session. There was some talk that perhaps his training camp was too long and he'd over done it. We'll never know now.

[KOJOE90]

You don't KO even a shot Pinklon Thomas in a round if you don't have some real power..

Morrison didn't KO Pinky Thomas. Pinky quit on his stool with a badly cut eye and forehead.

[stujones]

You don't KO even a shot Pinklon Thomas in a round if you don't have some real power..

Morrison didn't KO Pinky Thomas. Pinky quit on his stool with a badly cut eye and forehead.

Okay, but Morrison had him all over the place in the first round (down I believe) and I don't think anyone would think Thomas would have survived.

That was the fight I saw to inspire the thread actually.

[ebeneezer]

The guy had incredible power on his left hook. He threw it perfecty with his full body behind it.

Observe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4ua9m7CrWg

[The Blade]

The guy had incredible power on his left hook. He threw it perfecty with his full body behind it.

Observe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4ua9m7CrWg

Watch Morrison versus Michael Bentt on YouTube. Morrison never amounted to much, and Bentt destroyed him.

[Taki...]

It was all downhill from Grange Hill, to Tucker's luck, then playing a miserable arse faced aids ridden fowler, and then mr nasty in the lameo version of the bill.

Forgot about Grange Hill You must be a few years older than me James

Hes still managed to pack himself a nice 6figure job for the past 20years or so all the same

6 figure? Most of the cast of enders are only on about 70k a year. The most popular get about 120,000 I think. I know this as a mate of mine played Tarik and I think they started him on 50k.

Surely you can double your money with all the personal appearances and other celebrity bollocks. I reckon 6 figures is about right.

[Romi]

I agree with KOJoe 100%. Morrison was a very good offensive fighter with a good variety of punches and combos but he seriously lacked defense and a set of whiskers. His finest hr was his fight w/a VERY old and slow Foreman. Tommy knew better than to trade and wisely opted to box for the duration. Morrison struggled in many fights against mediocre fighters and was destroyed by Bent, Mercer, and lewis. He was also in serious trouble w/Purrity, Joe Hipp, and Vaulin. The faded Ruddick was strting to land his shots when the fight was prematurely stopped. I think Byrd would have toyed w/him and Ruiz would have stopped him after the mid rds. Against aging B-C level fighters Tommy looked like a million bucks, but against genuine World Class he really didn't have it. Tommy relied heavily on his power and much credit to that can be attributed to his admitted steroid use. @38 he would have absolutely zero effect on the division. Here in the states Tommy has been put in some mythical category of greatness... generally by rednecks.

[ebeneezer]

The faded Ruddick was strting to land his shots when the fight was prematurely stopped.

That fight wasn't prematurely stopped at all.

If you remember Ruddock missed an uppercut and got countered by the mother of all left hooks nearly lifted him into the air.

Alan Sugar, the ref for that fight, said that he looked into Razor's eyes when he got up and one of his pupils were dilated.
Ruddock was then forced back into the ropes throwing nothing back and after a few Morrison jabs snapped his head back and Lipton stepped in.

[Romi]

Yes, it was a huge left hook but Razor got up and he was capable of going on. Both fighters had landed bombs and both were hurt. In a recent interview, Razor had said that the Tyson fights had taken alot out of him and he wasn't the same fighter afterwards. He went on to say that in the Morrison fight he felt Tommy weakening and he honestly believed the ref stopped it too soon. This wasn't a one sided fight by any stretch. Based on Razors ability to take a good clip and the punishment Tommy was taking as well, I believe the fight was stopped too soon. Regardless, I think you missed the point of the entire post.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Well, the referee rightly didn't take into account Razor's ability to ship punishment, he was protecting the fighter from possible brain trauma, which is the right thing to do.

[ebeneezer]

If Lipton said one of Ruddock's pupils were dilated after that massive knockdown then it was good grounds for a stoppage.