Leonard -v- Hearns 2 (1982 at Light middle)?

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Syntax Error
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Leonard -v- Hearns 2 (1982 at Light middle)?

Post by Syntax Error »

The rematch between these 2 should have happened in 1982 at Light middle but it didn't as we all know.

The first fight was one of the best ever & some say that SRL was lucky to win the 1st one, although I disagree. He showed his mettle, courage & fortitude to come from behind & KO a dangerous opponent.

How do you think a rematch at a weight above in 1982 would have gone?

I believe that the result would have been very similar, but in a less exciting fight.

I think that Hearns would have tried to run a lot more, remembering how tough SRL is after Ray took a frightful hammering but would not stop coming.

I believe that he would have used a lot of nervous energy trying to box on the retreat & as we all know, Tommy did not have the greatest stamina.

I think Ray would have TKO'd him in about 12 after coming from behind.

What are peoples opinions? :box:
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Re: Leonard -v- Hearns 2 (1982 at Light middle)?

Post by granberry »

Syntax Error wrote:The rematch between these 2 should have happened in 1982 at Light middle but it didn't as we all know.

The first fight was one of the best ever & some say that SRL was lucky to win the 1st one, although I disagree. He showed his mettle, courage & fortitude to come from behind & KO a dangerous opponent.

How do you think a rematch at a weight above in 1982 would have gone?

I believe that the result would have been very similar, but in a less exciting fight.

I think that Hearns would have tried to run a lot more, remembering how tough SRL is after Ray took a frightful hammering but would not stop coming.

I believe that he would have used a lot of nervous energy trying to box on the retreat & as we all know, Tommy did not have the greatest stamina.

I think Ray would have TKO'd him in about 12 after coming from behind.

What are peoples opinions? :box:
I think Hearns would have done better if he had a competent trainer, rather than Emanuel Steward, who had Hearns overtrain for the first Leonard fight

so that Hearns weighed in at 145 (two pounds the 147 limit he had so much trouble making at his height).

Hearns was so OVERTRAINED that during the fight he was not sweating under the hot ring lights.

I think Hearns would have done better if he had a competent trainer, rather than Emanuel Steward, who knew so little about boxing that

when Leonard had a completely closed eye,

Steward did not know enough about boxing to tell Hearns to step to that side

where Hearns could have hit Leonard at will since Leonard could not see from that side.

An average preliminary fighter would have known that on his own 20-30 years earlier.
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Post by elmersalsa »

At 154, it would have been a different fight and outcome. Hearns @ 154 was stronger and hit harder. That was his ideal weight. Hearns by KO or decision in this one. Leonard was not that good at 154. :TU: :TU: :TU:
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Post by blueberrymuffin »

1982, I favor leonard by knockout. 1984, I favor hearns by knockout.
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Post by blueberrymuffin »

elmersalsa wrote:At 154, it would have been a different fight and outcome. Hearns @ 154 was stronger and hit harder. That was his ideal weight. Hearns by KO or decision in this one. Leonard was not that good at 154. :TU: :TU: :TU:
Good point. When you consider Leonard's performance vs. Howard and Hearns with Duran the following month, Leonard would be toast.

leonard may have been #1 in 81 but things change. I think the public has a hard time accepting that Leonard could ever take a back seat to hearns.
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Post by walshb »

No way Tommy, as brilliant as he was knocks Ray out. Leonard had a great chin and an even better heart and I think he was too good for Hearns at any weight.
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Post by blueberrymuffin »

walshb wrote:No way Tommy, as brilliant as he was knocks Ray out. Leonard had a great chin and an even better heart and I think he was too good for Hearns at any weight.
Hey Walsh, how's it going? You don't recognize me do you?

It's me, Cherry from that website where you saw my ass get canned but back with an even more exciting name.

I just wanted to say it's good to be back on primetime, in the limelight where I belong.
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Post by walshb »

Well how are tricks buddy? I wouldn't say canned. Yes you were hit from al sides at times, but you stood your ground. I stil prefer your former name by the way!!!!!
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Post by Ezzard »

I've thought this one through so often... The first fight was so close as was the second, and neither one totally convinces me that one was better than the other.

I think Hagler's summation before the second fight pretty much speaks for me... Over 12 rounds the advantage is with Hearns, over 15 with Leonard.
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Post by blueberrymuffin »

walshb wrote:Well how are tricks buddy? I wouldn't say canned. Yes you were hit from al sides at times, but you stood your ground. I stil prefer your former name by the way!!!!!
No, I was canned. They booted me out of there saying I didn't know how to behave and that I didn't know how to reply in a non-confrontational manner but i couldn't stop myself.

Sorry you don't like the new name ( I use a lot of them nowadays: Redrooster, King Abdullah, Flying Dutchman, Fredflinstone) but I use this one because it sounds less offensive to most people and makes me actually seem friendly, which I'm really not.

Well, good seeing you again. See you soon.
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Post by walshb »

I never said I didn't like the name, just that I preferred the previous CBZ name. Now Cherry you of all people should know that you must first thoroughly read a POST before replying. Am I getting you Rowdy yet???

As for Leonard, I seem to remember you having a vague disliking of the guy and me thinking he was one of the best all round fighters of all time. You still feel the same

You must have really pissed the guys on the CBZ off to get kicked out. I know at times they can be a little sensitive, but what was the final nail that sealed your coffin?
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Post by blueberrymuffin »

What can I say Walsh? I'm just too controversial for some people's tastes. Too imaginative with the wisecracks which is exactly what got me into trouble with a particular writer. So the moderator felt he had no choice but to come in with a warning. I ignored the warning fully anticipating that I would get cut the next time.

I couldn't resist, the mod didn't approve and I was banned.

Ray Leonard? I did pick Ray this time around to short out Tommy's senses
had a rematch been arranged in 82. Perhaps a bit too soon for Hearns.

Tommy did have some weakness-not enough work on defense-very careless; left hand dangling at his side, inability to clinch, and chin left exposed.

I think someone here mentioned that Tommy needed better training. I'm surprised Emmanual didn't know what Tommy needed work on and even more of a problem with the weight being down 145. That didn't help him in the later rounds where he floundered.

Bringing the fight up to 1984 where I felt Thomas peaked, I would favor Tommy despite his flaws. He seemed so much stronger than he was at 147. Many fans have been bowled over with his freak like attributes at 147 but you knew he had to have some weakness that wouldn't show up fighting the likes of Pablo Baez, Randy Shields, and Luis Primera.

So you could say that only Ray Leonard among all the opponents was good enough to expose and capitilize on flaws in his style. Only Ray Leonard had the speed and precision to counter Hearns with a left hook flush on the chin. he needed a bit more time to wear him out and complete the job but I thought he was a worthy champion. he did unify the title so there's not much else you could ask from him.

I wish he hadn't quit the ring when he did and cast doubts on his in and out appearances-he had what I would call one of the more conspicuous careers that I've seen.

That's pretty much as far as my assessment of Leonard goes. In my view, he had the beginnings of greatness while Hearns was just reaching his peak in 84. I was really impressed how he bulked up- a real specimen. I think he was a better balanced fighter than from before he departed from the welters.

My gut feeling is that Tommy would have been too dangerous a fight for him to take at the time especially when comparing the two about one month apart; Leonard against Kevin Howard and Tommy vs. Duran.

Of course, that was just one fight Ray had for his comeback. There's no rule that says Leonard could not improve on what he showed against kevin.

Anyways, to make a long story short, I felt Tommy was better suited at 154 than Leonard and that now the tables would be turned because this time around it was Tommy that had the edge in strength.

As for the other things I said about him I seem to recall it was over a debate between Leonard and Norris but that's another story.

Adios friend. Nice talking to you and I'll be seing you soon. :TU:
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Post by ringsider »

In the rematch the didn't happen until 1989......Hearns won, and was robbed.

Now had that fight happened in 1982-83 at 154, Hearns woulds have done exactly what he did the first fight, Give SRL a boxing lesson. Only this time the fight isn't stopped prematurely with Hearns still on his feet. Hearns wins an easy decision and maybe even stops SRL late. :TU:
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Post by Victor*KC »

Hearns was a better fighter overall at this weight and I don't see Leonard coming back to KO him had Hearns learned to fvcken Clinched in the first fight He would of won
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Post by meade95 »

At 154....a more mature HitMan....Takes out SRL inside of 8 rounds.

If these two would have had a rematch (Which SRL wanted no part of...which his own people say)....Hearns KO's him in a rematch in 1982...hell anytime between 82-86....Hearns KO's him in any sort of rematch...
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Post by theone »

cant figure out why alot of folks are predicting Leonard would get ko'd. He never came close to being ko'd in his prime. The best Hearns would do is get a decision. However, my guts says Leonard goes for broke earlier in the fight, now aware that he could ko Hearns but he cant outbox him.
Leonard tko 9 or 10 in the rematch.
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Post by Victor*KC »

Your Gut's don't tell you whats going to happen only what you want to happen Leonard never went for broke Early in a fight and if he does I predict Hearn's by KO His definately running into something

Leonards Face :)<--------------------- Tommys Right
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Post by theone »

Your Gut's don't tell you whats going to happen only what you want to happen Leonard never went for broke Early in a fight and if he does I predict Hearn's by KO His definately running into something
Firstly, I'm too big of a fan of both fighters, to personally favor one over the other in a fantasy fight. In fact its rather silly to do that in any fantasy fight. For example,what would i gain making the argument that Chavez, my favorite fighter of all time, would defeat Trinidad, when in my mind i know that couldnt happen?
Secondly, I never wrote early in the fight, I wrote earlier, meaning earlier than he did in the first fight when he went for broke knowing he was on the verge of being outboxed. he went for broke in the second fight knowing it was close, but had to settle for a draw. Seeing the state Hearns was in after the fight he was very fortunate it was only 12 rounds.
Remeber, this topic is about an almost immediate rematch that would have been for 15 rounds.
Leonards Face <--------------------- Tommys Right
Very silly since despite the two knockdowns in fight #2, Leonard never came close to being knocked out in both encounters. While Tommy was tko'd in the first fight and was practically out on his feet a couple of times in the rematch.
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