Vitali coming back?

JC · Post by JC » 24 Jan 2007, 14:01

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:It will be interesting to see how the current Eastern Blocks prospects bodies develop. Povetkin and Boiystiov develop who definately aren't on the juice at the moment.

Yeah by the look of him the only juice Povetkin had been on is the OJ he gets free with his double order at Subway. Doesn't seem to be hindering him too much though.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 24 Jan 2007, 14:02

Interestingly, Valuev's reach is only 85, surprising consisidering his height and the size of that frame of his.

He has an absolutely MASSIVE upper body though, 48 inch waist and 55 inch chest, that's where a lot of that weight is in the massive skelton of his upper body.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 24 Jan 2007, 14:16

Irrespective of his ability to jab every time vitali thoroughs one at valiuve he will be at the other end of the arm and hittable will make it very hard for a fighter. Its difficult for him to formulat a plan to beat that too.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 24 Jan 2007, 14:30

What's that got to do with it, he's at the end of the arm every single punch he throws.

It depends who makes better use of the jab. Vitali despite having the shorter reach, was jabbing Lewis' head off for 2-3 rounds, because he was timing it better, and getting inside of Lewis' own jab.

Vitali tends to stands quite square on when he fights, which although not good for generating leverage into your punches, does present some problems. It means that when he jabs he is going to be coming inside the shoulders of his opponent a lot of the time. He also tends to carry his hands quite a long way in front of his body, which means his shots don't have to travel very far to reach their target. This enables him to get a lot of arm punches off in succession.

If I were coaching Valuev, I would actually get him to back off Vitali and try and draw him in, Vitali would be unlikely to take the bait, but then you stand off and try and blast him with the double jab, turning the shoulders as straight as possible to get full extension, and lead off the front foot, as Vitali tries to retaliate, grab hold of him and drill him to the body with big shots, and try and bring that massive overhand right down on his head.

Valuev has so much body weight which he could make life very hard for Vitali, he needs to really bear down on Vitali and physically dominate him when it's close, and then really bang out that jab hard and as fast as possible from long range. If Vitali feels he cannot win the fight at long range, then it will force him into grappling with a much bigger man which will sap his strength quickly.

Despite his size, Valeuv's weight is well distributed, and he doesn't have any big oxygen demanding muscles, his size is natural, so I would favour him to be fresher and stronger in the later rounds.

ABA Boxing · Post by **ABA Boxing** » 24 Jan 2007, 16:22

YES Klitschko V Lewis II

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 25 Jan 2007, 06:49

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yes, despite all his big talk, Vitali spent more time whingeing about how an ancient Lewis was ducking him than he did fighting decent challengers.

If he looks back in fighting shape suddenly, I have to wonder about how he manages to shed and add bulk so fast, he looked practically emaciated in the photographs I saw of him at the WBC convention. Is he juicing? I suspect he's up to something of some kind, because he was 205 lbs as a kick boxer, and over 245 against Williams. 40 lbs of muscle is a hell of a lot to add.

Vitali doesn't seem like he is that interested in having any sort of legacy, I know he was injured, but how come he is suddenly able to fight again? Perhaps the fact he didn't get anywhere in politics has changed his mind. Or was he holding out until he could get an assured title opportunity.

If he gets through this, I'd like to see him defend against Peter, but I think Peter should get in another one or two fights beforehand, he's come on since the loss to Wlad, but Vitali is a lot more experienced, and despite my not liking his persona and behaviour, is a very awkward customer.

Vitali and Sam could put on a hell of a fight, Vitali has a good chin, as does Peter, and both men are aggressive, could be a real toe to toe war.

Many people think that's why Vitali kept pulling out of the Rahman fight. Traces of it in his system.

I agree with you on Peter. Peter has been scrwed, but Peter will be afool if he sits on his ranking. With his drastic improvement, he needs to keep on improving, fight regular and keep that weight down.

If Peter gets as good as I think he can, Vitali - who's had 2 years off, injuries - could be in for a kicking.

Vitali's only ever beaten fat bastards at the "highest level." Take a hint, Samuel!

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 25 Jan 2007, 07:18

Glad someone Is mentioning Vitali not fighting decent opposition.

Most at the time were just hyping him about being the man, yet didn't prove It as much. Just the Lewis fight got him overrated and Lewis was out of shape and out a year and still won.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 25 Jan 2007, 07:23

Max Molyneux wrote:Glad someone Is mentioning Vitali not fighting decent opposition.

Most at the time were just hyping him about being the man, yet didn't prove It as much. Just the Lewis fight got him overrated and Lewis was out of shape and out a year and still won.

Yep, even Lewis was fat & out of shape.

Ring, HBO and all the other fools who sanctioned Vitali-SANDERS as being a "universally recognised championship fight" should be very embarrassed.

Now it's the WBC bending over backward (ofrward?) for Vitali.

Maybe they all just like big dicks.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 25 Jan 2007, 07:39

In fairness, at the time Vitali was about the closest thing to a dominant champ, but that's not saying much. His level of competition was pretty piss poor though. His eliminator was against Slug-boy Johnson, who had more tits than an aviary, and then it was onto spaniels-ears Sanders, who looked ancient and then Danny Williams, who was little more than a human punching bag. He then spent the rest of his reign bitching and whining that Lewis, who had been struggling for motiviation for quite some time, and who was also nearing 40 years old, wouldn't fight him in a rematch, instead of doing something to cement his legacy.

If Vitali comes back, then I hope he makes a decent fist of it instead of beating Maskaev and then taking the easy route and retiring again, but I suspect the latter is what will happen.

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 25 Jan 2007, 07:51

Is everyone maybe just selling Maskaev a bit short? It often seems to be whoever is linked with fighting him just has to turn up to win. The guy has some good skills, very good power and hasn't looked too troubled chinwise recently. Who knows how Vitali is going to look in his comeback and I'd definitely make Oleg one of the best fighters he's ever faced.

Vitali got his rep from lossing to Lewis and nobody being able to think of anyone who could beat him, on the evidence of him beating up blobs with no movement. Watched his fight with Hide again the other day. Herbie was out boxing him and landing some nice blows before that pesky gust of wind blew him down.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 25 Jan 2007, 08:06

The thing is that Maskaev has always been beatable, and is some way past his prime by this stage. Despite his flaws, Vitali is very durable and very aggressive, or at least was. He will have been out only about 18 months or so, (late 2005 was his last fight as I recall), which isn't neccessarily a disaster.

What is more of a worry is that if he has been out of training that long, and has shed loads of weight in the time off, his body may not react well to being put through the strain of bulking up again. He is likely to be a little slower than he was and his timing will suffer, but given a few rounds against Maskaev I think Vitali is an instinctive enough fighter to come on late and stop him.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 25 Jan 2007, 08:12

Hide's chin must be worse than Judah's to have gone down from that!

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 25 Jan 2007, 08:24

Judah took two full right hands from Tzsyu before dancing, Hide I feel would be put down by any punch that hits him clean/half clean/glances his jaw

I agree James that Vitali should win but for a comeback fights it would still rank up there as possibly his best result

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 25 Jan 2007, 09:12

VK's not fought since Dec 2004. Will never forget Maloney and Hatton's faces at a piss party when Sky interviewed them about Williams' loss.

I hear that Peter's poeple are throwing the book at the WBC, legally. Fair play - the WBC aren't even sorry enough to pay step aside. HOWEVER, I hope they do not forget Peter is a RAW TALENT who can shape into something special. They need to keep him busy, while they are fighting outside the ropes - legal battles can take foever and I'd hate to see Sam's prime slip by.

Because, if Vitali becomes champ again, wouldn't he just love to feast on a fat, overweight, troubled top contender?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 25 Jan 2007, 09:36

Christ, is it that long ago already? Doesn't seem it.

Yes, I think Peter definetly needs to keep busy, he's not the finished article yet, and Toney is not a full fledged heavyweight, he needs to learn a few more tricks before he becomes a threat to Wlad and Vitali (presuming Vitali is any good when he comes back.

Keep him fighting and sue the WBC for loss of earnings in the meantime.

JC · Post by JC » 25 Jan 2007, 09:53

Max Molyneux wrote:Hide's chin must be worse than Judah's to have gone down from that!

I never really understand why Zab is considered to have such a bad chin. I know Tyszu made him do the chicken dance but that's just what happens sometimes when you try and get up too quickly from a heavy knockdown, after all Zoo was not exactly a light puncher.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 25 Jan 2007, 10:05

viciousmaussa wrote:VK's not fought since Dec 2004. Will never forget Maloney and Hatton's faces at a piss party when Sky interviewed them about Williams' loss.

I hear that Peter's poeple are throwing the book at the WBC, legally. Fair play - the WBC aren't even sorry enough to pay step aside. HOWEVER, I hope they do not forget Peter is a RAW TALENT who can shape into something special. They need to keep him busy, while they are fighting outside the ropes - legal battles can take foever and I'd hate to see Sam's prime slip by.

Because, if Vitali becomes champ again, wouldn't he just love to feast on a fat, overweight, troubled top contender?

I remember Hatton saying he deserved the shot and he did everyone proud I think.

What did Maloney say.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 25 Jan 2007, 10:06

J-C wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:Hide's chin must be worse than Judah's to have gone down from that!
I never really understand why Zab is considered to have such a bad chin. I know Tyszu made him do the chicken dance but that's just what happens sometimes when you try and get up too quickly from a heavy knockdown, after all Zoo was not exactly a light puncher.

Well I guess Tszyu was the only one to stop him so It can't be that bad.

A Corrales chin maybe? He was downed by Super Featherweights after all and he goes Into the ring as a Welterweight.

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 25 Jan 2007, 10:12

Yeah and how many shots has he taken from Castillo, Freitas etc. Corrales really had to boil down to make superfeather. These guys (Corrales, Judah) can mix it with the best pound for pound boxers which they wouldn't be able to manage if they had Herbie Hide like chins.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 25 Jan 2007, 10:17

Witter's a bigger fighter than Freita's and Castillo.

Corrales makes It on heart and wars mostly. He'll get beat If he faces Witter though.

He's probably overrated for his wars like the first Castillo fight.

Mayweather at Super Feather was dropping him like a fly though.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 25 Jan 2007, 10:28

Corralles shouldn't have been fighting at Super Feather, the guy can't even make the lightweight limit comfortably. He's over 6 foot for christ's sake. His punch resistance was better as he moved up the weights, though he's never exactly going to be iron chinned.

Of course neither Corralles or Castillo are proven at 140, and are unlikely I think to be better at that weight, given that they will be in with stronger guys.

One thing for Corralles though is that he always has that punch power, which I think he WILL carry up with him given his frame and his punching style.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 25 Jan 2007, 11:43

Max Molyneux wrote:Witter's a bigger fighter than Freita's and Castillo.

Corrales makes It on heart and wars mostly. He'll get beat If he faces Witter though.

He's probably overrated for his wars like the first Castillo fight.

Mayweather at Super Feather was dropping him like a fly though.

Castillo-Corrales 1 was some of the worst I've seen from Castillo. He played right into the straight ahead, hook away cliche. As opposed to the clinical, methodical chop you into liver on my own terms of his best. None of the in-and-out work he's good for.