What Are The Biggest Myths In Boxing

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 25 Jan 2007, 15:59

I don't mean regarding particular fights and fighters but rather the fundamentals, skills, strengths of the sport itself.

Just for starters.

1. A guy with a decidedly low KO percentage can't hurt you.
2. He's never gone past 6 rounds before, can he make it through 10 ?
3. My favorite, though you hear it alot more from fight fans than trainers, commentators etc. If you land a big punch on a real slick defensive fighter it's all over. It's just wishful thinking.
4. You can't win rounds backing up.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 25 Jan 2007, 17:26

I'm posting the debunkers to your myths....I see that others are posting other myths.....

1. Ko's can save you from being hurt
2. Endurance isn't demonstrated until it's demonstrated
3. Consumate Boxing skills are not just developed by those with weak chins
4. Ali, Mayweather, Jack Johnson, Willie Pep, Sugar Ray Leonard are just the most obvious examples of the fallacy of this theory.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 25 Jan 2007, 17:30

I think Harry Greb threw a wrench into that "women weaken legs" theory.

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 25 Jan 2007, 17:36

- Liston took a dive in his rematch with Ali - no way could that short right have hurt him;
- Bigger is better at heavyweight;
- Drinking even tiny amounts of water during a fight is bad;
- Below heavyweight, steroids won't help you, because they only make it harder to make weight;
- Tall guys can't be effective fighting inside.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 25 Jan 2007, 17:40

Most Judges know how to score a fight

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 25 Jan 2007, 22:12

That the staredown is an effective intimidation weapon.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 25 Jan 2007, 22:15

kick asner wrote:That the staredown is an effective intimidation weapon.

Good call.
Lemme tell ya that sh.t is a total waste of time for a fighter to do.
Guys would do that to me and I would start laughing at em literaly.
I thought it was funny.
We were gonna find out who was tougher soon enough.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 25 Jan 2007, 22:45

expug wrote:
kick asner wrote:That the staredown is an effective intimidation weapon.
Good call.
Lemme tell ya that sh.t is a total waste of time for a fighter to do.
Guys would do that to me and I would start laughing at em literaly.
I thought it was funny.
We were gonna find out who was tougher soon enough.

Sounds like it might have even had the opposite effect with someone like yourself and rather than intimidate maybe it got you more fired up. If a guy has the fighting spirit he shouldn't be bothered by the staredown. If he doesn't then the staredown is probably not needed anyway.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 25 Jan 2007, 23:07

I wonder if it was Liston that started the staredown.
It seems like after he came along it became very popular.
Anyone remember any fighter really giving the Manson eyes before him?

generic screen name · Post by **generic screen name** » 25 Jan 2007, 23:58

Staredown may be a myth among boxers, but if Tyson stared me down I'd piss my pants.

One myth is that guys in lower weight classes can't crack an egg. I'm sure Vic Darchinyan can KTFO a normal person.

Another thing that is not necessarily a myth but is overrated is experience against tougher competition. I'm not talking about comparing Jose Luis Castillo to Amir Khan, I'm talking about a guy (an example not a real person) who's got KO1 by Mayweather and KO3 by an old Tommy Hearns, and is facing against a prospect.

Senya13 · Post by **Senya13** » 26 Jan 2007, 01:02

Smaller heavyweights of the old (weighing below 200lb) would knock out most modern superheavyweights.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 26 Jan 2007, 05:20

Decagon wrote: -Jack Johnson was brushing Stanley Ketchel's teeth out of his glove after the fight.

I argued this on another forum once. It was as if I had blasphemed

theone · Post by **theone** » 26 Jan 2007, 06:29

I wonder if it was Liston that started the staredown.
It seems like after he came along it became very popular.
Anyone remember any fighter really giving the Manson eyes before him?

I dont remember where, but i read a while back that Jack Sharkey was the first known staredown artist. Supposedly he was giving Dempsey such a fierce staredown, that Dempsey became confused. He looked at one of his corner men and asked "What the f*** is this guy problem?", or something to that effect.
I found the story hysterical when I read it. It would be cool to verify if this actually happened.

cosand · Post by **cosand** » 26 Jan 2007, 09:38

1. The myth that pre 1950s HWs would dominate, or even be competitive with modern day HWs
2 The Myth that Sugar Ray Robinson was the greatest fighter PFP of all time (top 10, but by far not the greatest)
3. The myth of the "lineal" Champion. The term and the concept are meaningless in 95% of cases
4. The myth that the HW division is weaker now then at any time in history
5. The myth that Joe Louis was the greatest HW of all time
6 The myth that Carmen Basilio engaged in a career long crusade against the Mob's influence in boxing (A total rose colored glass, romanticized revision of history)
7. The Myth that Emmanuel Stewart is a great trainer
8 The myth that Liston took a dive against Ali. (Ali threw the same anchor punch no less then 5 times in his career with a similar result)
9 The myth that "a real good 200-215 pounder" could dominate the HW division today
10. The myth that because fighter A beat fighter B, and fighter C beat fighter A, Fighter C MUST be better then fighter B. (This form of 2 dimensional boxing analysis is the worst way to try to get a prospective)
on a fighters status, past or present)

Honorable mention...The myth that a "good loss" is better then an ugly win....A win is always better.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 26 Jan 2007, 10:16

cosand wrote:1. The myth that pre 1950s HWs would dominate, or even be competitive with modern day HWs
2 The Myth that Sugar Ray Robinson was the greatest fighter PFP of all time (top 10, but by far not the greatest)
3. The myth of the "lineal" Champion. The term and the concept are meaningless in 95% of cases
4. The myth that the HW division is weaker now then at any time in history
5. The myth that Joe Louis was the greatest HW of all time
6 The myth that Carmen Basilio engaged in a career long crusade against the Mob's influence in boxing (A total rose colored glass, romanticized revision of history)
7. The Myth that Emmanuel Stewart is a great trainer
8 The myth that Liston took a dive against Ali. (Ali threw the same anchor punch no less then 5 times in his career with a similar result)
9 The myth that "a real good 200-215 pounder" could dominate the HW division today
10. The myth that because fighter A beat fighter B, and fighter C beat fighter A, Fighter C MUST be better then fighter B. (This form of 2 dimensional boxing analysis is the worst way to try to get a prospective)
on a fighters status, past or present)

Honorable mention...The myth that a "good loss" is better then an ugly win....A win is always better.

I think you should start all these as spearate threads. They'd certainly get some debate going.

I'd be interested in seeing your HW top 10 and P4P top 10...

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 26 Jan 2007, 10:56

Regarding your list of 10 Cosand

1.Agree. When every possible argument has been made it still doesn't change the fact that there isn't a promising 215 lb HW even on the horizon.
2. Interesting, but I don't how you could rate Robinson lower than number 5.
3. Partially agree, but 95 pct is probably too high.
4. PFP it is the weakest, but head to head it wouldn't be and that's what really counts.
5. Agree. Ali was.
6. Don't know enough about the subject.
7. Maybe not great, but very good.
8. Agree. And what were the other 5 times ?
9. Till I see it happen I'm not convinced, and saying 215 lb fighters are really MW's is as silly as 140 lb women who insist they weigh 115.
10. Agree, but I give it some credibility if it happens more than once.

JCS · Post by **JCS** » 26 Jan 2007, 12:15

Teddy Atlas' BS..

Example: If two 140 pounders are fighting.. and one of them fought at 147 like 3 times, 4 years ago, he's automatically the bigger stronger man.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 26 Jan 2007, 12:24

I like Teddy Atlas' argument that you should do your roadwork at 5am, for no other reason than it takes motivation to run at 5am. I know people who've been real earlybirds there whole life, if they were boxers would there best time to do roadwork be midnight ?

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 26 Jan 2007, 12:50

how about the myth that 'they never come back!' ...hell, they always come back! dont they!!... 8)

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 26 Jan 2007, 13:52

livingstone cole wrote:That you can 'walk through' punches.
That being champion counts for anything.

I would say being champion is notable...holding a belt is not.

cosand · Post by **cosand** » 26 Jan 2007, 21:12

Ezzard

Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 1794
Location: UK
Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:16 pm Post subject:

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cosand wrote:
1. The myth that pre 1950s HWs would dominate, or even be competitive with modern day HWs
2 The Myth that Sugar Ray Robinson was the greatest fighter PFP of all time (top 10, but by far not the greatest)
3. The myth of the "lineal" Champion. The term and the concept are meaningless in 95% of cases
4. The myth that the HW division is weaker now then at any time in history
5. The myth that Joe Louis was the greatest HW of all time
6 The myth that Carmen Basilio engaged in a career long crusade against the Mob's influence in boxing (A total rose colored glass, romanticized revision of history)
7. The Myth that Emmanuel Stewart is a great trainer
8 The myth that Liston took a dive against Ali. (Ali threw the same anchor punch no less then 5 times in his career with a similar result)
9 The myth that "a real good 200-215 pounder" could dominate the HW division today
10. The myth that because fighter A beat fighter B, and fighter C beat fighter A, Fighter C MUST be better then fighter B. (This form of 2 dimensional boxing analysis is the worst way to try to get a prospective)
on a fighters status, past or present)

Honorable mention...The myth that a "good loss" is better then an ugly win....A win is always better.

I think you should start all these as spearate threads. They'd certainly get some debate going.

I'd be interested in seeing your HW top 10 and P4P top 10...

You really dont want to see those entire lists in this thread, because the topic would totally hi-jack the thread
But for the record, I put Louis at # 5 or 6 on my list of top 10 HWs, and SRR as number 6 on my list of all time PFP fighters behind (in their primes) Monzone, SRL, Duran, Hagler and Pep.

cosand · Post by **cosand** » 27 Jan 2007, 03:18

As usual, anytime the name Dracagon , or is it Fagagon, appears on the header, what follows never fails to hover just over the level of a learning disabled 6 year old.
What’s wrong son, you cranky cause your boyfriend has his way with you, and didn’t have the sensitivity to give you a reach around and a sloppy kiss goodbye ?
I see you home mental health worker has done a good job teaching you to use a spell check. Next week, I hear she is going to teach you to brush your teeth on your own.
You really need to find another sport to follow, maybe figure skating or girls field hockey, because you show time and time again you know nothing about Boxing (too manly a sport for you flopping wrists I guess) Your "opinions" are based on no rational thought, your sense of history is a joke, and your knowledge of the sport (or anything else so it seems) is comparable with that of a retarded French poodle. You could be replaced by a tape recorder spewing tired regurgitated half witted chat forum myth
Now run along boy, your mommy’s calling you, the bitch cant get her 400 lb fat ass off the toilet seat again, better find that rope. Obviously the bitch never taught your punk ass to shut your mouth when adults are talking either huh ?
By the way, you are your Mom need to get that trash out from in front of that rusty 12x70 trailer you live in, It attracting rats and the neighbors are starting to complain !

cosand · Post by **cosand** » 27 Jan 2007, 04:06

Now that the lil bitch fagagon has been soundly ass whooped and sent on his way....the grown ups can talk

Seamus Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:56 pm Post subject:

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Regarding your list of 10 Cosand

1.Agree. When every possible argument has been made it still doesn't change the fact that there isn't a promising 215 lb HW even on the horizon.
2. Interesting, but I don't how you could rate Robinson lower than number 5.
3. Partially agree, but 95 pct is probably too high.
4. PFP it is the weakest, but head to head it wouldn't be and that's what really counts.
5. Agree. Ali was.
6. Don't know enough about the subject.
7. Maybe not great, but very good.
8. Agree. And what were the other 5 times ?
9. Till I see it happen I'm not convinced, and saying 215 lb fighters are really MW's is as silly as 140 lb women who insist they weigh 115.
10. Agree, but I give it some credibility if it happens more than once.

Thanks for the feedback.
On Basilio, yeah, ESPN runs a 90 minuite documantary on the subject from time to time. The theme was that the mob was ever trying to put the arm on Basilio and he fought them at every turn. Nice story, just doenst happen to be true.
Basilio didnt have to fight the mob, becaue he, Netro and DeJohn were friends of Gabe Genovese and Frankie Carbo, and both of them laid off Carmen, and made sure everyone else did too. The story about Carbo approaching Robinson about throwing a fight with Basilio in exchange for a re-match, is totally false.

On Ali's anchor punch, get hold of a clip of the Coopman, Dunn, Foreman, Blin and or Moore fights. You will see the same punch that took out Listion used in each one. Didnt KO his opponent in every case, but you will see it was a part of his arsenal.

As for Manny, he is a good "Fine tuner", but has seldom shown an abilty to build a guy from the ground up.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 27 Jan 2007, 04:33

cosand wrote:As usual, anytime the name Dracagon , or is it Fagagon, appears on the header, what follows never fails to hover just over the level of a learning disabled 6 year old.
What’s wrong son, you cranky cause your boyfriend has his way with you, and didn’t have the sensitivity to give you a reach around and a sloppy kiss goodbye ?
I see you home mental health worker has done a good job teaching you to use a spell check. Next week, I hear she is going to teach you to brush your teeth on your own.
You really need to find another sport to follow, maybe figure skating or girls field hockey, because you show time and time again you know nothing about Boxing (too manly a sport for you flopping wrists I guess) Your "opinions" are based on no rational thought, your sense of history is a joke, and your knowledge of the sport (or anything else so it seems) is comparable with that of a retarded French poodle. You could be replaced by a tape recorder spewing tired regurgitated half witted chat forum myth
Now run along boy, your mommy’s calling you, the bitch cant get her 400 lb fat ass off the toilet seat again, better find that rope. Obviously the bitch never taught your punk ass to shut your mouth when adults are talking either huh ?
By the way, you are your Mom need to get that trash out from in front of that rusty 12x70 trailer you live in, It attracting rats and the neighbors are starting to complain !

It's unusual for an ex boxer to assume the mantle of internet warrior but then again we only have your word for it that you have actually boxed.

Based on this diatribe I put you in the category of wannabe hardman and fulltime f*ckwit.

cosand · Post by **cosand** » 27 Jan 2007, 05:06

Collins2000

Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 1203

Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:33 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

cosand wrote:
As usual, anytime the name Dracagon , or is it Fagagon, appears on the header, what follows never fails to hover just over the level of a learning disabled 6 year old.
What’s wrong son, you cranky cause your boyfriend has his way with you, and didn’t have the sensitivity to give you a reach around and a sloppy kiss goodbye ?
I see you home mental health worker has done a good job teaching you to use a spell check. Next week, I hear she is going to teach you to brush your teeth on your own.
You really need to find another sport to follow, maybe figure skating or girls field hockey, because you show time and time again you know nothing about Boxing (too manly a sport for you flopping wrists I guess) Your "opinions" are based on no rational thought, your sense of history is a joke, and your knowledge of the sport (or anything else so it seems) is comparable with that of a retarded French poodle. You could be replaced by a tape recorder spewing tired regurgitated half witted chat forum myth
Now run along boy, your mommy’s calling you, the bitch cant get her 400 lb fat ass off the toilet seat again, better find that rope. Obviously the bitch never taught your punk ass to shut your mouth when adults are talking either huh ?
By the way, you are your Mom need to get that trash out from in front of that rusty 12x70 trailer you live in, It attracting rats and the neighbors are starting to complain !

It's unusual for an ex boxer to assume the mantle of internet warrior but then again we only have your word for it that you have actually boxed.

Based on this diatribe I put you in the category of wannabe hardman and fulltime f*ckwit.

Far from an internet warrior mr Collins, and a warrior is far more then what is required to fluss a roach like him off one's shoulder.

I can operate at any level. In can be cool and adult and respectful, or I can sink to the gutter trash level of your buddy there. A F*ckwit ? No, but I can out do the best of the F*ckwits when I run into them, as you have seen.

Was there any reason for him inserting the comment he did ? I think not, except he is clearly an attenetion starved little bitch. I just gave him the attention he asked for. I pity angry loners, just trying to help him out.

And yeah, you have my word that I was a fighter, which is all you need. When I post here, it is when I am working from home, and generally post when i am running a program or application, and I have time on my hands. This is a fun distraction for me, not a daily addiction like with some others.

Enjoy !