STEVE COLLINS v JOE CALZAGHE ...?

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 26 Jan 2007, 10:42

I've always felt Stevie boy abruptly retired because a Roy Jones fight looked unlikely and he really didn't fancy his chances against Calzaghe.

So poor old Eubank had to be quickly dusted off and take Collins beating for him.

But what do you think would have transpired, 1997 Steve Collins defends his highly regarded, better than being undisputed WBO belt against Joe Calzaghe..?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 26 Jan 2007, 11:04

It would have been interesting. Calzaghe was quicker and slicker - but would that matter vs Collins? I've perhaps hold Collins in some mythical pedastal based on his big wins (done so impressively) - but the guy appeared to be a freak at the weight and I think would have outstrengthed Calzaghe in the end (maybe down on points).

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 26 Jan 2007, 11:04

There was talk of black outs in the gym, and that coupled with a poor performance against Cummings I think was enough to tell Steve it was time to hang em up. He did the right thing.

His marauding strength would have trobled calzaghe, but JCs edge in speed would probably have been enough.

Collins is under rated due to an 'ugly style' that he adopted late in his career but he was a fantastic fighter in my eyes.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 26 Jan 2007, 11:07

TerribleTerry wrote:There was talk of black outs in the gym, and that coupled with a poor performance against Cummings I think was enough to tell Steve it was time to hang em up. He did the right thing.

His marauding strength would have trobled calzaghe, but JCs edge in speed would probably have been enough.

Collins is under rated due to an 'ugly style' that he adopted late in his career but he was a fantastic fighter in my eyes.

I do think the blackouts happend after, in a proposed comeback 3-4 years after he retired. Very sensible to keep the retired.

I didn't think he was that poor vs Cummings - just completely unmovited (he was poor in most of his easy fights as a champion) and it wasn't hurt despite being floored.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 26 Jan 2007, 11:58

I could have sworn Benn complained of blackouts after sparring Howard Eastman in the run up to the proposed Calzaghe fight, hence the pull out.

I agree the Cummings fight wasnt a disaster and the knock down was more embarrasing than dangerous, but I think it was enough to tell Collins that he didnt have it anymore.

Greg Nicholas · Post by **Greg Nicholas** » 26 Jan 2007, 12:21

Collins was a very interesting case. He says the hypnosis for Eubank improved his all-around game by 20%, then he went on a weight programme after beating Eubank at Millstreet and says weights helped him punch 20% faster by the time of the Benn fights.

He used interesting technique in the Benn fights, particularly the second Benn fight where he went long whenever caught cleanly and from his distant position he was able to throw a superb right that connected again and again with Benn's head or face - if Collins missed with the punch it swept across Benn's back and ruled out any type of counter.

For every punch Eubank landed on Collins at Millstreet, Collins hit him with two back. It was basically his chin, toughness, focus and determination that allowed him to use that marauding style at 168. He'd kind of sway back as soon a punch landed and awkwardly catapault into throwing his own punches, as fast as he possibly could (he wasn't very fast, but awkward because he was so unskilled), not worrying about being pretty. It was effective.

He was a very good tactician, leading with those short flurries of overlapping straight punches in the first Eubank fight because he knew Eubank's reactions had been in decline since 1993 and that he had become lead-footed, but he didn't simply pressure with no thought - he chose the right times to unleash. And when Eubank leaded off, Collins came back with his own as I mentioned in the paragraph above. Eubank had no answer. Then ofcourse in the Eubank rematch, he threw Chris off by coming charging out of his corner for each round and basically marauding him non-stop, not allowing Eubank those little breaks he always needed.

But Joe would of been too sharp for him ;)

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 26 Jan 2007, 12:24

Calzaghe for me. Too fast, too quick.

For all his fine attributes I've always thought history has been kind to Collins. Tough as they come though - and much more clever than is given credit for.

john2345 · Post by **john2345** » 26 Jan 2007, 12:47

I think JC would have been just that bit too good for Collins, and would have won by UD. Too fast, and tough/strong enough to be able to absorb whatever Collins threw.

History will show that - IMO - Collins was slightly over-rated and Calzaghe slightly under-rated. And you could say that both ratings are deserved because Collins did it the hard way and Calzaghe is percveived by many to have taken the softer "fight lower grade opponents at home" option) Nonetheless I think there is a gap betwen the two and it's in JC's favour.

J

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 26 Jan 2007, 12:49

Calzaghe over Collins. Too fast, too powerful (before the ongoing hand injuries) and too busy.
I always thought Eubank was the architect of his own downfall against Collins in their first fight (Collins being Eubanks 7th opponent in 13 months and 6 of those 7 went the full 12 rounds). Eubank didn't slow down for the rematch either shoe-horning two more fights into the 6 month period between (Collins had none).

Greg Nicholas · Post by **Greg Nicholas** » 26 Jan 2007, 13:23

Collins would be constantly tagged and dazed against Calzaghe.

caster · Post by **caster** » 26 Jan 2007, 13:48

Wow, what s super fight! If only....I loved Collins when he was around, but I think Joe would have been just as intense as Collins only faster and more accurate. Calzaghe by decision.

liamlion · Post by **liamlion** » 26 Jan 2007, 13:49

livingstone cole wrote:I think that the main reason he retired was so he didn't have to face Calzaghe...

Thats correct - but not for the reason that Calzaghe was likely to smash Collins, for prior to Calzaghe's WBO title challenge the lad had done fuk all to suggest he would smash Collins.

Why would Collins be obsessed with fighting Roy Jones, but scared to fight Calzaghe?... Towards the end of his career Collins had a huge problem with motivation. The fact is Collins wanted more then to fight British champions. It was what Calzaghe hadnt done in the ring, as opposed to what he had, that made Collins want no part of him.

Dont under-estimate the calibre of Steve Collins - he wasnt some lumbering meat-head. He was a well-schooled counter-boxer, who also happend to be rock solid, and who could fight like a marauding bull if he deemed necessary. Collins was a man who learnt his trade during the 1980s in the same gym used by Marvin Hagler. A young Collins fought a peak Mike McCallum and pushed him hard for the full 12 rounds - dropping a relatively close decision.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 26 Jan 2007, 14:21

liamlion wrote:
livingstone cole wrote:I think that the main reason he retired was so he didn't have to face Calzaghe...
Thats correct - but not for the reason that Calzaghe was likely to smash Collins, for prior to Calzaghe's WBO title challenge the lad had done fuk all to suggest he would smash Collins.

Why would Collins be obsessed with fighting Roy Jones, but scared to fight Calzaghe?... Towards the end of his career Collins had a huge problem with motivation. The fact is Collins wanted more then to fight British champions. It was what Calzaghe hadnt done in the ring, as opposed to what he had, that made Collins want no part of him.

Dont under-estimate the calibre of Steve Collins - he wasnt some lumbering meat-head. He was a well-schooled counter-boxer, who also happend to be rock solid, and who could fight like a marauding bull if he deemed necessary. Collins was a man who learnt his trade during the 1980s in the same gym used by Marvin Hagler. A young Collins fought a peak Mike McCallum and pushed him hard for the full 12 rounds - dropping a relatively close decision.

Thats what I am talking about Liam!

Too many people saw Collins v Eubank and BEnn and think he was little more than a marauding strong man - Collins was schooled in the Petronelli's gym and hardened by fighting tough guys - his seasoning was second to none.

I remember reading an old Ring magazine where they were weighing up the middleweigh contenders and they called Collins a light punching but neat boxing counter puncher - miles away from the image most have of him these days.

If only JC, with his natural talent and punch power, had shown the kind of brass balls Collins did and had took on the best yanks in the US all these debates about whether he is actually P4P material would be out of the window - he would have proved it time and again..

caster · Post by **caster** » 26 Jan 2007, 16:26

Collin's had the heart of two lions - he'd have took on Tyson if they'd have let him!

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 27 Jan 2007, 20:02

One of my most vivid boxing memories is off Collins vs Benn II in the only Benn round of the fight. Nigel, was not the fighter he was but could still bang - one time he through the massive looping left hook that was telegraphed to f'd - However, it Collins flush on the chin.... Steve just kept coming forward.

Interestingly, it was from after that round (and I think maybe even that punch) that they started talking about pulling Benn out.

A tough fight to call, and I can see the arguement for Calzaghe - quicker, maybe a bit more snap, younger. However, I just feel Collins (and I am talking a motivated Collins) would have just been too strong and set a pace that not even Joe could take for 12 rounds.

Also, Collins' pet combination was the STRAIGHT Right hand lead, followed by left hook - the perfect way to fight Joe as Reid, Woodhall, Bika etc have shown.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 27 Jan 2007, 20:08

Greg Nicholas wrote:Collins was a very interesting case. He says the hypnosis for Eubank improved his all-around game by 20%, then he went on a weight programme after beating Eubank at Millstreet and says weights helped him punch 20% faster by the time of the Benn fights.

I don't think he ever said that about the "hypnosis" after the fight - he revealed after the fight that he didn't go to an hypnotherapy session - it was all a ploy to try and spook Eubank into thinking he was some super human. It worked a treat.

Greg Nicholas · Post by **Greg Nicholas** » 27 Jan 2007, 22:42

stujones wrote:
Greg Nicholas wrote:Collins was a very interesting case. He says the hypnosis for Eubank improved his all-around game by 20%, then he went on a weight programme after beating Eubank at Millstreet and says weights helped him punch 20% faster by the time of the Benn fights.
I don't think he ever said that about the "hypnosis" after the fight - he revealed after the fight that he didn't go to an hypnotherapy session - it was all a ploy to try and spook Eubank into thinking he was some super human. It worked a treat.

No he did get hypnotised, just not to the point where he was in another world (as they percieved). They spooked Eubank with the 'invincible' claims.

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 28 Jan 2007, 18:10

Greg Nicholas wrote:
stujones wrote:
Greg Nicholas wrote:Collins was a very interesting case. He says the hypnosis for Eubank improved his all-around game by 20%, then he went on a weight programme after beating Eubank at Millstreet and says weights helped him punch 20% faster by the time of the Benn fights.
I don't think he ever said that about the "hypnosis" after the fight - he revealed after the fight that he didn't go to an hypnotherapy session - it was all a ploy to try and spook Eubank into thinking he was some super human. It worked a treat.
No he did get hypnotised, just not to the point where he was in another world (as they percieved). They spooked Eubank with the 'invincible' claims.

Eubank knackered himself by fighting 12 rounds every 2 months... Collins was a bit too good for that treatment. You'd need to be brain damaged to buy into that hypnosis cobblers and get 'spooked'.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 28 Jan 2007, 18:21

apparently eubank said it played on his mind after what happened to watson, though

Collins-Calzaghe would have been some sort of row though, wouldnt it? that would have been the brit version of ward-gatti i reckon

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 28 Jan 2007, 18:48

m1kee50 wrote:apparently eubank said it played on his mind after what happened to watson, though

Collins-Calzaghe would have been some sort of row though, wouldnt it? that would have been the brit version of ward-gatti i reckon

I'd really liked to have seen Calzaghe take on Michael Watson at his best... now that would've been a fight.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 28 Jan 2007, 18:55

calzaghe definitely wins this in my opiniion.

he's too fast and can tough it out with the best of em.

collins was a bit one dimensional.

calzaghe on pts.

Greg Nicholas · Post by **Greg Nicholas** » 28 Jan 2007, 19:44

Taki... wrote:
m1kee50 wrote:apparently eubank said it played on his mind after what happened to watson, though

Collins-Calzaghe would have been some sort of row though, wouldnt it? that would have been the brit version of ward-gatti i reckon
I'd really liked to have seen Calzaghe take on Michael Watson at his best... now that would've been a fight.

The Watson from the second Eubank fight, that'd be interesting. Man, he was like a man possessed. So strong, kept coming and coming, and didn't tire.. slipping, pressuring, left hook, switch angle, right hook, pressuring, right hook, right hook, switch angle, left hook to body, pressuring, taking shots, left hook, right hook, switch angle, left hook, taking shots, pressuring, slipping, pressuring..

Greg Nicholas · Post by **Greg Nicholas** » 28 Jan 2007, 19:48

Watson was very stiff and awkward, too.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 29 Jan 2007, 07:47

Jog my memory-

When was Collins wanting to make a comeback and what for? What fight was he chasing? And is it true he got knocked out cold in a sparring session?

When was Benn going to fight Calzaghe? 98? And was it the Battersea Bomber who smashed him up?

All of this rings a distant bell.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 29 Jan 2007, 07:59

I believe, Collins was going through a bit of a messy divorce so I am sure his comeback was financially orientated. He said he wanted Calzaghe - sure it was around the year 2000 (although don't quote me).

I think he even had a proposed date for a Warm up match, but suffered "black outs" in the lead up, went for some tests - I think they turned out okay (but again, don't quote me) but still decided to forget the comeback.

Now it WAS Howard Eastman in the ring when Collins experienced these "black outs" but again its all down to ring hearsay as to what happend. Eastman's camp reckon he KO'd him, Collins' camp reckon he felt light headed all of a sudden and not a meaningful punch had landed.

Benn did briefly talk of a comeback, around the same time as the Collins "comeback" - I think again financial concerns were the main reason. He was a bit less specific as to who he wanted and it soon forgotton about. Very pleased for both, because Nigel said after the second Collins fight, that the reason why his corner pulled him out was because he had some brain scarring and was maybe at a bigger risk than other fighters.