Is Warren Losing Power in British Boxing?

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 28 Jan 2007, 16:38

Warren has said before something to this effect, 'all the best Briitsh fighters go through me."

Well, at the moment, though he has Olympic names Khan & Audley, and Calzaghe as a long time world title holder, and Enzo with fringe status, others are catching up.

Though Hobson apparently isn't making a penny, he has forged US connections for Hatton, with a Castillo bout next, and has Woods with the IBF light heavy.

Hennessey has done similar for Witter - WBC 140 - who may fight Harris or Corrales soon, being in partnership with GBP and getting connections for the promising Froch as well.

Maloney has world class prospect Munyai, & leading cruiser contender Haye despite losing Graham Earl who has looked awful since defecting.

Is Warren losing his grip? Does he have a monopoly (ITV, MEN etc) with nowhere to go? Will he be overtaken by his rivals, what can his rival promos do to outdo him, and if so IS THIS A GOOD THING?

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 28 Jan 2007, 17:11

he's definitely lost his grip a bit.

no doubts.

he hasn't got haye, who for my money is the best up and comer on the british scene. froch, the 2nd best up and comer.

for world level prospects coming thru it does look thin on the ground right now. not been blown away by khan, and mitchell has a murderers row to fight at world level.

he's still doing quite nicely thankyou very much, but the grip has slipped a bit recently.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 28 Jan 2007, 17:21

Alex Arthur isn't winning any title this year. I would love it if Malcolm Klassen shut his fat mouth. They have really disrespected Klassen calling him the "weakest champ" and then trying to get him over to the UK - I mean, could you be more obvious about it? I like Klassen's attitude - he beats hardcase St Clair (if Gomez KOs Arthur, St Clair rips him to shreds), then decides to get big fights and basically says sod off, there's bigger fish than you my boy.

I just can't believe how Brit promoters are allowing Romanov, Asiku, Olusegun et al to be either inactive or wandering masterless samurai. (Can't believe how anyone could have let Adamek and Karmazin to slip through, either!) Sure, they won't sell out any leisure centres but these guys CAN and SHOULD win world titles when developed. It's like promoters only want fresh faced cocky boys or rugged home towners.

The more camps that get world champions away from Warren the better. Maybe they'd make ITV think twice about signing exclusive contracts with a single promoter.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 28 Jan 2007, 17:34

maloney has olusegun.

and munyai.

sergio martinez was another.

although he's now high up in the wbc rankings and it's just a matter of time before he gets a shot.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 28 Jan 2007, 17:54

viciousmaussa wrote:Alex Arthur isn't winning any title this year. I would love it if Malcolm Klassen shut his fat mouth. They have really disrespected Klassen calling him the "weakest champ" and then trying to get him over to the UK - I mean, could you be more obvious about it? I like Klassen's attitude - he beats hardcase St Clair (if Gomez KOs Arthur, St Clair rips him to shreds), then decides to get big fights and basically says sod off, there's bigger fish than you my boy.

I just can't believe how Brit promoters are allowing Romanov, Asiku, Olusegun et al to be either inactive or wandering masterless samurai. (Can't believe how anyone could have let Adamek and Karmazin to slip through, either!) Sure, they won't sell out any leisure centres but these guys CAN and SHOULD win world titles when developed. It's like promoters only want fresh faced cocky boys or rugged home towners.

The more camps that get world champions away from Warren the better. Maybe they'd make ITV think twice about signing exclusive contracts with a single promoter.

Heard Karmazin was promoted by Hennessy for a while but who promoted Adamek before Don King?

Those foreigners you mentioned won't sell even as a world champ here thats why they slip through, were not like America for a foreign boxers. Warren's trying with M'baye though.

Unlike fans like here, the casuals won't care about Foreign champs too much.

I don't think one top boxer with the odd promoter will make a difference to Warren.

Hobson Isn't doing much with Woods like he should(he got paid more to fight Johnson In Bolton!), seems to care more about pretending to be a bigshot because Hatton fought In Vegas.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 28 Jan 2007, 17:56

hitman_hatton1 wrote:maloney has olusegun.

and munyai.

sergio martinez was another.

although he's now high up in the wbc rankings and it's just a matter of time before he gets a shot.

didn't know if Maloney had Olusegun. I heard he was off to Ghana to face Quartey's bro

Martinez, I remember he beat Williams. Supposedly a top qualiyt fighter with only 1 loss to Margarito.

Freiheit · Post by **Freiheit** » 28 Jan 2007, 17:59

Adamek was promoted by the scandinavian Modern Sports & Events at one time, but they closed down, so he was signed by Don King, Was he, and Karmazin, with Panix?

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 28 Jan 2007, 18:01

Max Molyneux wrote:
viciousmaussa wrote:Alex Arthur isn't winning any title this year. I would love it if Malcolm Klassen shut his fat mouth. They have really disrespected Klassen calling him the "weakest champ" and then trying to get him over to the UK - I mean, could you be more obvious about it? I like Klassen's attitude - he beats hardcase St Clair (if Gomez KOs Arthur, St Clair rips him to shreds), then decides to get big fights and basically says sod off, there's bigger fish than you my boy.

I just can't believe how Brit promoters are allowing Romanov, Asiku, Olusegun et al to be either inactive or wandering masterless samurai. (Can't believe how anyone could have let Adamek and Karmazin to slip through, either!) Sure, they won't sell out any leisure centres but these guys CAN and SHOULD win world titles when developed. It's like promoters only want fresh faced cocky boys or rugged home towners.

The more camps that get world champions away from Warren the better. Maybe they'd make ITV think twice about signing exclusive contracts with a single promoter.
Heard Karmazin was promoted by Hennessy for a while but who promoted Adamek before Don King?

Those foreigners you mentioned won't sell even as a world champ here thats why they slip through, were not like America for a foreign boxers. Warren's trying with M'baye though.

Unlike fans like here, the casuals won't care about Foreign champs too much.

I don't think one top boxer with the odd promoter will make a difference to Warren.

Hobson Isn't doing much with Woods like he should(he got paid more to fight Johnson In Bolton!), seems to care more about pretending to be a bigshot because Hatton fought In Vegas.

I'm sure it was Maloney who had Adamek over here

In America, the foreign fighters get bad decisions, inactivity, quite appalling really.

Anyway, would love to see Thaxton topple Khan, Haye stop Maccarinelli, Klassen to break down Arthur, though I do want Calzaghe to win a major fight...like the Hopkins date since Hops-Jones 2 fell through.

I think Warren's done a lot to make UK boxing stale.

I don't think he's trying with Mbaye. He admitted it was a backdoor signing to make Hatton vacate.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 28 Jan 2007, 18:06

Theres nothing on Klassen's record to say he'd beat Arthur anyway.

Khan ain't ready for Thaxton.

Haye I think would KO Macca.

Calzaghe would lay the smack down on Hopkins now.

He's not trying yet he put enough money In to out bid Kohl for M'baye/Kotelnik 2?

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 28 Jan 2007, 18:11

Klassen beat St Clair, who's leagues above anything on AA's record.

Khan did say "I want British, European and World tiltes this year" - Thaxton, Romanov and - hopefully - Earl!

Good point on the purse bid for M'baye. I thought he was fighting on the Audley or the Calzaghe undercard, but it's with Earl-Katsidis...hmmmm, is this 2 pawns to make Khan a possible future 2 weight champion?

Say what you will about the foreigners not being able to draw, but I doubt Maloney's looking back with Munyai.

Would love to see Munyai vs the Malodrottu-Napa winner.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 28 Jan 2007, 18:15

Khan maybe at the end of the year could be ready for the British title but don't you have to be 21 for the EBU or British?

St Clair hasn't beaten anyone special and beat an unknown African champ who scored a good KO over a shot Medina.

M'baye and Kotelnik are fighting In March at the Liverpool Olympia!

Napa fighting for the Euro, what a mismatch!

Maybe If he wins then Power could have a shot.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 28 Jan 2007, 18:24

St Clair beat a good fighter in Baloyi and did it away from home which is something that Arthur would never do. He then lost it to a guy he knew nothing about who outslugged him in a fast paced thriller. Alex was in a war once, and he folded in half at British level.

Don't forget, St Clair edged Asiku in another gritty battle, gave a much bigger Corrales 12 hard rds (marching through wicked uppercuts and hooks to sting Chico, who must've outweghed him at least a stone)...and he had Harrison running for his sicknote.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 28 Jan 2007, 18:44

Harrison pulled out on depression and drink problems.

Corrales Is overrated and won on power and heart mostly he should never of been making Super Feather like Harrison making Feather.

Witter will KO Corrales If they meet.

Home don't matter, only the fighters.

Arthur Is a different fighter to the Gomez fight now.

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 28 Jan 2007, 19:46

there was always healthy competition at domestic level promoting to keep warren on his toes, we had matchroom and we had panix promotions etc...

but in this day and age warren is still around and still earning his crust, i think its a slightly more level playing field than it used to be with perhaps 3 promoters capable of running a uk based big world title bill.

at the moment i would still say warren is the daddy, hennessy sports are in second place, they have a good stable with some good class fighters for undercard action. FA are doing well, they have hatton and woods as their world class crew but they seriously need to strenghten their stable of fighters so they can host good undercards, this is what is holding them back at the moment.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 28 Jan 2007, 21:45

I didn't think I would say this, but I don't think Domestic boxing is quite in the same standard before Warren re-defection back to ITV.

Warren had a weekly Saturday/Friday card - not always the greatest bills but very regular and usually a name (with us fans) fighter headlining it.

This would go on EVERY Week during the Boxing Season, and sometimes also midweek with his "Ringside on the road" and then "Fight Skool" projects. Sometimes Warren couldn't fill a date and then another promoter would get the chance (usually Hearn).

Now though, Warren has to have these big cards - which although are good for the fan and represent a great value to a ticket holder - not so good for the boxers and not so good for the TV fan. Ultimately, the undercard fighters do not get TV exposure (how many Tony Doherty fights have we seen on ITV) and fighters who would sometimes Headline Warren cards on Sky, now don't get shown. ITV 4 show some, but not as many when with Sky.

It seems like Sky's "title or not showing" policy means that now the Friday night slot is becoming increasingly vacant. The boxing season started in September, but it doesn't feel like its got to full swing with so many gaps in the schedule all the time.

The Warren cards are too sporadic - they seem to be on average around one every 3 months (this is ITV 4 and ITV 1) and Sky's is getting less and less. I thought the situation with Warren leaving for ITV could only be good for the game and we'd be seeing more and more domestic action - we don't seem to be though, probably less.

It seemed like Warren got his championship level fighters to fight more often on Sky - they were fighting more regularly and being showcased more often.

OLD-LONDON-RULES · Post by **OLD-LONDON-RULES** » 28 Jan 2007, 23:49

[quote="stujones"]Warren has to have these big cards - which although are good for the fan and represent a great value to a ticket holder - not so good for the boxers and not so good for the TV fan.

Please name this big, quality fight card.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 29 Jan 2007, 04:14

I think when Warren left Sky, there was LOADS of quality action all of a sudden. Top class fights or names to get excited about. Earl-Romanov, Anderson-Muttley, Meager-Stewart, Froch-Magee, Munyai-Power 1, Munyai-Haskins, Olusegun-Numbembe, Asiku-McKeever, Moore-Macklin, Haye-Gurov (spectacular KO), Haye-Fragomeni (thriller), Witter's two world title fights, Hatton's three post Warren world title fights, Thaxton-Meager, Munyai-Power 2 - loads of compelling stuff.

Real fights, proper titles, while all that WBU crap goes on elsewhere...

Sure it's Leisure Centres & small halls, but we've had great domestic action on Sky & there seems to be no let up.

I wonder what would happen if Calzaghe got dethroned, Khan got ruined in a good oppponent shocker, Audley goes back to his old form, Earl fails to get even a WBO interim and Arthur gets smashed in a brave step up for the "weakesht of the world championsh". How would the power bases shift then?

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 29 Jan 2007, 07:06

viciousmaussa wrote:I wonder what would happen if Calzaghe got dethroned, Khan got ruined in a good oppponent shocker, Audley goes back to his old form, Earl fails to get even a WBO interim and Arthur gets smashed in a brave step up for the "weakesht of the world championsh". How would the power bases shift then?

Wishful Thinking?

, in a nutshell thats why Warren protects his fighters. But even if all that happened:

Calazage the comeback
Earl - WBU 135 Champ
Khan - WBU 140 Champ
Audley - WBU
Arthur WBU

Wow SN would have all the WBU belts from 130-140

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 29 Jan 2007, 07:25

OLD-LONDON-RULES wrote:
stujones wrote:Warren has to have these big cards - which although are good for the fan and represent a great value to a ticket holder - not so good for the boxers and not so good for the TV fan.

Please name this big, quality fight card.

and where did I say the word quality.

Although, the Calzaghe vs Lacy Bill and Williams vs Skelton II bill (even with the pullouts) were better than most of his sky bills apart from the big UK legs of PPV's.

Williams vs Skelton were the two best domestic heavyweights.
Macarinelli vs Dominguez an interim "world" title fight - that turned into a good one.
Rhodes vs Lockett - solid domestic dust up.
Also featured a commonwealth title defence by Pryce, a world rate M'baye, a decent scrap between Rees and Watson and lots of fight with his up and comers.

Thats a better bill than anything that the other promoters have shown. In the old days of Warren on Sky, Watson vs Rees would be quite possibly a main event on a much smaller bill. Now, it didn't get shown - and we didn't get anything else in return from Sky. Look at all the gaps in the schedule.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 29 Jan 2007, 07:39

If Hatton had stayed with Warren, would Calzaghe even be where he is now - with a "career legendising" win over Lacy?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 29 Jan 2007, 07:51

As great as Munyai has been, I cannot remember any of us going all excited prior to the first fight with Power. Most of us thought he was going to be a stiff with no chance. It wasn't a great contest, a great upset yes - and the rematch didn't have much appeal to me for that reason. It was a once sided kicking, just as the rematch was. Lets see Munyai progress, I don't want to see him fight another British fighter - with the possible exception of maybe a comebacking Damean Kelly.

Yes, there were some easy to predict main events in the Warren Sky era (and Warren didn't have exclusive rights to the Saturday/Friday night slot) - however, there have been some to the stuff post Warren. Femi vs Johanesson, Asiku vs McKeever, Kelly vs Napa, Ward vs Power, Froch vs Groenwald and many David Haye fights to name but a few. I also disagree regarding the undercards - for me, that a major difference between the Sky bills of a few years back (not just Warren but the Hearn cards also). Last Friday had a appealing little undercard fight in Facey vs Woolcombe and also the Magee vs Lowe fight didn't look to bad as a warm up. However, there have been some stinkers - can anyone remember the undercard to Haye vs Fragomeni for example.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 29 Jan 2007, 08:02

What do you expect with Munyai? He did all that was asked of him and won three inside the distance with question marks behind him each time. No one knew who he was, he wasn't even rated the best in SA, yet he rose to the occasion at late notice and has been abusing our fighters' bodies since. Some ppl are hard to please.

He has a real title, faced good comp, and isn't wasting any time.

I'd rather watch him than Khan learning how to keep his gloves up vs shifty imports.

lowersmiths · Post by **lowersmiths** » 29 Jan 2007, 08:03

now that tv is being more discerning, i think all of the promoters are finding life a little tougher.

it's their own fault. they were signed up to deliver 'title' fights, then twisted the rules by passing off WBF shite (steve roberts and his wonderful reign for example).

it's a good thing that sky have clamped down and are prepared to buy more of the top class action from abroad, that didnt used to happen a couple of years back.

we missed the big names in quality fights and instead got IBO championship boxing from harvey hadden leisure centre in nottingham.

the balance has been evened up again.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 29 Jan 2007, 08:08

viciousmaussa wrote:What do you expect with Munyai? He did all that was asked of him and won three inside the distance with question marks behind him each time. No one knew who he was, he wasn't even rated the best in SA, yet he rose to the occasion at late notice and has been abusing our fighters' bodies since. Some ppl are hard to please.

He has a real title, faced good comp, and isn't wasting any time.

I'd rather watch him than Khan learning how to keep his gloves up vs shifty imports.

Exactly, no one knew who he was - so how could we get excited about the fight BEFORE it took place. Most of the prediction on the websites were of an easy Power win. Munyai proved everyone wrong in great fashion and then confirmed it was no fluke vs Haskins.

He has beaten the best in the Country - now he needs to move on and progress. Lets hope he doesn't do a Jackson Asiku - prove he could be world class but not get the chance cause he is only based in Britain.

For me, the rematch was a waste of time. He'd outclass Power 10 times out of 10. Whats the point of watching that. Not a fault of Munyai, he is doing what he is being told and doing it spectucularly - its where from now.

I want to see more of Munyai, Olusugen and Asiku - but not more of the same.

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 29 Jan 2007, 09:03

But unfortunatly for all 3 of them, I can't see their careers being moved further in Britain. The only 2 domestic based guys you'd favour against Asiku and Olusugen are Cook and Witter and there is no way either of those 2 guys will want a fight with the Africans, let alone hoping a Matthews, Morris, Daws or Morrison type will take them on.

Maloney may say he would like to get Munyai a shot at a world title but I can't see it. Now he has beaten the best we can offer I can't see Maloney paying out the money to import guys who will test him.