STEVE COLLINS v JOE CALZAGHE ...?

celticwarrior · Post by **celticwarrior** » 29 Jan 2007, 20:41

Interesting debate and one that seems to pop up here a least once a year.

First off I was a big Collins fan but hopefully that doesn't cloud my judgement. I agree with someone else who said that Collins withdrew from the bout originally as he couldn't get motivated for the fight.

I think he knew Calzaghe was a fine young fighter at the time and that he'd have to be 100% to beat him but because Calzaghe didn't have a big name back then Collins couldn't get himself up for it. He was desperate for the Roy Jones fight at the time and with no sign of it becoming a reality he was very frustrated and checked it in rather than coming in under motivated and being beaten by Calzaghe.

As to the outcome, at the time Calzaghe was still pretty raw. Collins and Calzaghe then in terms of where both men were at in their careers probably matches up to a potential Calzaghe - Froch fight these days with Calzaghe in the Collins role.

Remember Collins had steamrolled a well prepared and very fired up Chris Eubank in their second fight in September of 95. And it was Eubank who pushed Calzaghe to his very limits over two years later when he accepted the fight at short notice with Joe after Collins pulled out.

As for the sparring incident with Eastman I'm pretty sure it happened at the Lennox Lewis gym when Collins attempted a comeback in 1999. The plan was for him to appear on a Calzaghe undercard in a warm-up and then for the two to clash.

He was sparring Eastman but they it was a very light spar and they were wearing 16oz gloves and he basically blacked out and collapsed. Tests afterward s showed that there was some scar tissue on Collins brain so he wisely decided to forget about the comeback then.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 30 Jan 2007, 04:11

celticwarrior wrote:Interesting debate and one that seems to pop up here a least once a year.

First off I was a big Collins fan but hopefully that doesn't cloud my judgement. I agree with someone else who said that Collins withdrew from the bout originally as he couldn't get motivated for the fight.

I think he knew Calzaghe was a fine young fighter at the time and that he'd have to be 100% to beat him but because Calzaghe didn't have a big name back then Collins couldn't get himself up for it. He was desperate for the Roy Jones fight at the time and with no sign of it becoming a reality he was very frustrated and checked it in rather than coming in under motivated and being beaten by Calzaghe.

As to the outcome, at the time Calzaghe was still pretty raw. Collins and Calzaghe then in terms of where both men were at in their careers probably matches up to a potential Calzaghe - Froch fight these days with Calzaghe in the Collins role.

Remember Collins had steamrolled a well prepared and very fired up Chris Eubank in their second fight in September of 95. And it was Eubank who pushed Calzaghe to his very limits over two years later when he accepted the fight at short notice with Joe after Collins pulled out.

As for the sparring incident with Eastman I'm pretty sure it happened at the Lennox Lewis gym when Collins attempted a comeback in 1999. The plan was for him to appear on a Calzaghe undercard in a warm-up and then for the two to clash.

He was sparring Eastman but they it was a very light spar and they were wearing 16oz gloves and he basically blacked out and collapsed. Tests afterward s showed that there was some scar tissue on Collins brain so he wisely decided to forget about the comeback then.

get off the fence.

who do u think wins???

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 30 Jan 2007, 09:13

Calzaghe would have drilled Collins all night long with fast combinations.

I can still remember watching Eubank walk back to his dressing room and shouting out "now we know why Steve didn't want to fight him". I had to agree with Eubank on that one.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 30 Jan 2007, 10:31

This is one of the great might have beens for Calzaghe. Collins was a person who could match him for persistance and workrate if not speed.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 30 Jan 2007, 11:02

And i doubt Calzaghes slaps would have dented Collins, and i think Collins is much stronger.

Of course this is best v best, maybe by late 97 Collins was fading fast?

celticwarrior · Post by **celticwarrior** » 30 Jan 2007, 20:01

THEBUTCH wrote:Calzaghe would have drilled Collins all night long with fast combinations.

I can still remember watching Eubank walk back to his dressing room and shouting out "now we know why Steve didn't want to fight him". I had to agree with Eubank on that one.

Collins beat Eubank far more convincingly in their second fight than Calzaghe did and by the time Calzaghe met Chris he was two years older and took the fight at short notice.

The Hawk · Post by **The Hawk** » 30 Jan 2007, 20:32

celticwarrior wrote:
THEBUTCH wrote:Calzaghe would have drilled Collins all night long with fast combinations.

I can still remember watching Eubank walk back to his dressing room and shouting out "now we know why Steve didn't want to fight him". I had to agree with Eubank on that one.
Collins beat Eubank far more convincingly in their second fight than Calzaghe did and by the time Calzaghe met Chris he was two years older and took the fight at short notice.

Styles make fights and it does not always work like that. Eubank and Calzaghe are different styles in the ring. I think Eubank was more suited to Collins style, were as I think Collins style would have played into Calzaghes style at the time with speed and power and being a southpaw. I think Joe would have made Steve pay when he came in for an attack.

So I believe Calzaghe would have been more effective than what Eubank was against Collins in either fight.

Just because two fighters have fought the same guy and one beats him better, does not mean that fighter will win if they fought. Styles make fights!

Greg Nicholas · Post by **Greg Nicholas** » 30 Jan 2007, 22:13

celticwarrior wrote: Remember Collins had steamrolled a well prepared and very fired up Chris Eubank in their second fight in September of 95

Lol. Didn't you see him at the weigh-in? He looked like an Ephiopian. He had no place fighting at super-middle, and looked almost dead from the very start of the fight. But fair play to Collins, he throw him off too with his crazy tactics.

Greg Nicholas · Post by **Greg Nicholas** » 30 Jan 2007, 22:16

THEBUTCH wrote:Calzaghe would have drilled Collins all night long with fast combinations.

I can still remember watching Eubank walk back to his dressing room and shouting out "now we know why Steve didn't want to fight him". I had to agree with Eubank on that one.

He said "Collins obviously knew something I didn't".

Eubank grossly under-estimated Calzaghe, you could tell that when he said getting the shot was like "winning the lottery" and I thought to myself 'more like preparing for hell and back, Chris', then Eubank mentioned that he hadn't bothered watching any tapes of Calzaghe and called him a "pretty boy"! He was in for a shock :) I think Eubank expected him to be another Gary Stretch or something.

liamlion · Post by **liamlion** » 31 Jan 2007, 08:33

Greg Nicholas wrote:
celticwarrior wrote: Remember Collins had steamrolled a well prepared and very fired up Chris Eubank in their second fight in September of 95
Lol. Didn't you see him at the weigh-in? He looked like an Ephiopian. He had no place fighting at super-middle, and looked almost dead from the very start of the fight. But fair play to Collins, he throw him off too with his crazy tactics.

Chris Eubank had over 2 months to prepare for his 2nd fight with Steve Collins, and yet you insinuate that Eubank wasnt 'well prepared'??

I'll tell you for a fact what isnt being 'well-prepared'... being scheduled to fight Mark Prince for the WBO intercontinental Light-heavyweight title and then given 5 days notice to get down to Super-middle to fight Calzaghe for the WBO title instead.

If Eubank had no place fighting Steve Collins at super-middleweight in late 1995, then what sort of place did he have fighting at that same weight against Calzaghe over 2 years later??

Greg Nicholas · Post by **Greg Nicholas** » 31 Jan 2007, 16:45

liamlion wrote:
Greg Nicholas wrote:
celticwarrior wrote: Remember Collins had steamrolled a well prepared and very fired up Chris Eubank in their second fight in September of 95
Lol. Didn't you see him at the weigh-in? He looked like an Ephiopian. He had no place fighting at super-middle, and looked almost dead from the very start of the fight. But fair play to Collins, he throw him off too with his crazy tactics.
Chris Eubank had over 2 months to prepare for his 2nd fight with Steve Collins, and yet you insinuate that Eubank wasnt 'well prepared'??

I'll tell you for a fact what isnt being 'well-prepared'... being scheduled to fight Mark Prince for the WBO intercontinental Light-heavyweight title and then given 5 days notice to get down to Super-middle to fight Calzaghe for the WBO title instead.

If Eubank had no place fighting Steve Collins at super-middleweight in late 1995, then what sort of place did he have fighting at that same weight against Calzaghe over 2 years later??

Here's something Ronnie Davies said:

"With due respect to Barry McGuigan, you have my word on it that Chris trained harder for this fight (Collins rematch) than any other of his career, harder even than for the Nigel Benn fight in 1990.

"The simple reason Chris lost is because all he ate was one sandwich in the couple of days before weighing in, I've been begging him for three years to move up. You saw him at the weigh-in, he looked like an Ephiopian."

"Yeah Chris is his own man and stubborn to boot. The one time he'd dieted from the start of training camp, he looked brilliant against Henry Wharton. But that was only because the Board made him after they had been horrified at finding his skin had turned grey a few days before the fight in South Africa when he was fasting.

"The thing about this last one is, Chris actually did diet from the start of camp but still had to starve himself to make the weight. He'd of made a brilliant light-heavy three years back or even one year back but now he'd probably be too tight at that weight too!"

"Chris had to win some fights on heart alone, where it's just caught up with him. He's such a big man, I mean he's a 13 stone bloke in full training."

"Certainly, the fight in Belfast, the second fight with Nigel Benn and the one in South Africa come to mind."

"If I had my way he'd never fight at 12 stone again, I don't care if the money fights are there with Benn and Jones. Chris is my best mate and I don't want him to risk his long-term health."

"He'd be that bit stronger at light-heavy, more solid shots, less sloppy shots and maintaining his stamina. He'll be able to show off his skills more like he used to and like he did against Wharton. He still looks brilliant in sparring when he's not fasting, so you can imagine how frustrated it makes me."

For the Calzaghe fight remember, Eubank's wife had devised a vegetable and fruit diet that worked wonders - he lost 20lbs in seven days for Calzaghe which is better than drying out 10-15lbs in two days like he always used to.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 31 Jan 2007, 19:03

Greg,

Can I ask where you got that info from. I consider myself pretty good at remember stuff from the glory days of the Super Middles - but either you've found a damn good link (or video) or you have a photographic memory.

Not a dig, just interested.

Greg Nicholas · Post by **Greg Nicholas** » 31 Jan 2007, 21:04

What info?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 01 Feb 2007, 14:58

Greg Nicholas wrote:What info?

The Ronnie Davies quotes.

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 02 Feb 2007, 12:00

Yeah it's as though you're quoting something yourself as the quotes share the same grammer and spelling mistakes that you made in some your other posts. Have you watched some recent footage of this interview?

Also, just for the record, I don't think Collins was dodging Calzaghe at all. For every retiring champion there is always an upcoming fighter who wants his shot. I don't think many people realised at the time how good Calzaghe was to become. If Collins didn't dodge McCallum, Benn and Eubank, he certainly wasn't going to start dodging some youngster he probably knew little about.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 03 Feb 2007, 09:56

I do remember a tabloid article along those lines.

Joe Calzaghe was not the boxer in 1997 that he is today. It's perfectly feasable to me that Calzaghe would not have been able to succesfully outscore the relentless and immovable Collins.

Calzaghe has risen to a new level over the last 4 years however.

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 03 Feb 2007, 10:12

celticwarrior wrote:
Remember Collins had steamrolled a well prepared and very fired up Chris Eubank in their second fight in September of 95. And it was Eubank who pushed Calzaghe to his very limits over two years later when he accepted the fight at short notice with Joe after Collins pulled out.

Pushed Calzaghe to his very limits?

I don't think so mate, Calzaghe won that fight at a canter, only being troubled by a huge Eubank haymaker near the end of the 12th round.

It is fair to say that Eubank was in decline, and his preperation for a Cazaghe fight was poor, but lets not say it was close, because it wasn't.

As for fighting Collins? - Collins had deserted using a lot of his boxing skills, more looking to overpower/outhustle his opponents - If he had tried to do that with Calzgahe, I reckon he would have been on the receiving end of a thumping.

But bring in the Collins that could box, and we have a very tight affair - I'd still fancy Calzaghe to beat Collins though (at that particular time)