Is Roach right to take on oscar?

black panther · Post by **black panther** » 01 Feb 2007, 12:37

As you probably all know Freddy Roach has been announced as the man to train Oscar De la Hoya in his fight against Mayweather. But the thing is he already knew he had two fighters to train for tough major world title fights( Manny Pacquiao vs Injin Chi and Peter Manfredo vs Calzaghe). So is he right to train these two essentially part-time and be absent in their corners so he can train Oscar? I personally thing he's got a commitment to Manfredo and Pacquiao and its a bit of a disgrace thats he's dropping them for more doe( Sorry I mean "great opportunity") to train Oscar.
And I really rate Roach as well.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 01 Feb 2007, 12:41

Well, that's your call, what's he done to you?

This is one of the biggest fights in history, Oscar needs a trainer for the fight, Roach would be mad not to accept the offer.

Neri · Post by **Neri** » 01 Feb 2007, 13:06

Roach has apparently spoken to every one of his fighters on thier feelings over him training Oscar and they all gave him thier blessing. Pacquioa is said to be happy working with Roach assistant for his next bout.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 01 Feb 2007, 13:12

pacman dont need no help, manfredos going to lose anyway, lol

so roach might as well fo and work with DLH, the only 50-50 fight out of the three

just kidding btw manfredo might not lose

black panther · Post by **black panther** » 01 Feb 2007, 13:21

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Well, that's your call, what's he done to you?

This is one of the biggest fights in history, Oscar needs a trainer for the fight, Roach would be mad not to accept the offer.

I suppose when you put it that way it - biggest fights in history and all that it doesnt seem as bad but you have to admit if you were Pacquiao or Manfredo you'd prefer your trainer in your corner and not one of his assistants.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 01 Feb 2007, 13:33

Yep, reckon the wild card is going to bloody hopping, though will Oscar actually train at the wild card gym? Doesn't he normally go to big bear in California for big fights?

I would imagine that Roach will be coming to Oscar to train, not the other way around.

However, it's still a good thing for Roach and wild card gym, either way.

The Hawk · Post by **The Hawk** » 01 Feb 2007, 14:19

Heres an update from Freddy, good luck to him, hes the best man out there for the job for De La Hoya, I can't wait for this one.

http://www.fightnews.com/cooney003.htm

states · Post by **states** » 01 Feb 2007, 14:19

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yep, reckon the wild card is going to bloody hopping, though will Oscar actually train at the wild card gym? Doesn't he normally go to big bear in California for big fights?

I would imagine that Roach will be coming to Oscar to train, not the other way around.

However, it's still a good thing for Roach and wild card gym, either way.

Oscar is training in Puerto Rico for this one. And yes, Roach is going to him. Manny is apparently welcome to join him there.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 01 Feb 2007, 14:20

I would agree on that, Roach will be going to DLH doubt Oscar will go to Roach.

Floyd Snr deliberatly asked for $2million off Oscar knowing Oscar wouldn't stump it up as Floyd has reservations about doing the corner despite what he said. If Oscar relented then a cool $2million.

Rocky Balboa · Post by **Rocky Balboa** » 01 Feb 2007, 14:51

Neri1983 wrote:Roach has apparently spoken to every one of his fighters on thier feelings over him training Oscar and they all gave him thier blessing. Pacquioa is said to be happy working with Roach assistant for his next bout.

Roach may well have spoken to his boxers' about the possibility of him training De La Hoya, but what if they were NOT happy with it? Do you think Freddy would have turned down the chance to train Oscar & earn a great deal of money.

Roach has to getting $500,000 from De La Hoya because that's what he was prepared to pay Mayweather Snr.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 01 Feb 2007, 14:57

steve689 wrote:I would agree on that, Roach will be going to DLH doubt Oscar will go to Roach.

Floyd Snr deliberatly asked for $2million off Oscar knowing Oscar wouldn't stump it up as Floyd has reservations about doing the corner despite what he said. If Oscar relented then a cool $2million.

Is the reason he didn't want to train Delahoya because he hates his son so much hes willing to forego the payday so a better trainer can give Hoya a chance of whooping his son? BEcause I'd rate Roach as far more suited to DLH than MayweatherSr

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 01 Feb 2007, 14:58

And no Eddie Murphy deserved that Oscar!!!!!!!!!

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 01 Feb 2007, 15:05

I'm glad Floyd senior isnt in the corner, it would have given me a bad taste to see a father trying to beat his own son... good on Roach, he didnt make it as a fighter but he's one of the best trainers out there now and deserves his success...

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 01 Feb 2007, 21:06

On a seperate note, I have noticed that Roach seems to be becoming the "in" coach - good for him, I really do rate him. The only time he really dissapointed me was the condition both Michael Moorer and Mike Tyson were in for their fights with Holyfield (II) and Danny Williams respectively.

However, I am just wandering if there have been any articles / info related to Freddie's health. He seems to have had his parkinson's syndrome in much control and unlike other fighters (i.e. Ali) from what I have seen in interviews etc his condition doesn't seemed to be deteriatoring much at all over the years. His speech is slurred, but its been like that for years and he seems quite sharp when interviewed.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 02 Feb 2007, 06:54

steve689 wrote:I would agree on that, Roach will be going to DLH doubt Oscar will go to Roach.

Floyd Snr deliberatly asked for $2million off Oscar knowing Oscar wouldn't stump it up as Floyd has reservations about doing the corner despite what he said. If Oscar relented then a cool $2million.

Yes, I think you are right, no matter what has happened between father and son, I don't think he wanted to train someone to bash his own son up. Imagine if he was badly injured or killed in the ring, how on earth would you deal with the fact you gave someone the toolkit to do it.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 02 Feb 2007, 06:58

stujones wrote:On a seperate note, I have noticed that Roach seems to be becoming the "in" coach - good for him, I really do rate him. The only time he really dissapointed me was the condition both Michael Moorer and Mike Tyson were in for their fights with Holyfield (II) and Danny Williams respectively.

However, I am just wandering if there have been any articles / info related to Freddie's health. He seems to have had his parkinson's syndrome in much control and unlike other fighters (i.e. Ali) from what I have seen in interviews etc his condition doesn't seemed to be deteriatoring much at all over the years. His speech is slurred, but its been like that for years and he seems quite sharp when interviewed.

Ali actually has 'Parkinson's syndrome' not Parkinson's disease, they are similar but different conditions. The syndrome can be caused by brain trauma, though the precise mechanism is not known. Ali was slurring his words slightly as long ago as the Berbick fight, in the run in to the fight it was clear during his medical checks there was something wrong, as he was unable to complete some of the tests (touching the nose and the following the finger eye test I think it was), it's taken another 20 odd years for Ali to progress to the stage he is at now.

Roach also has the benefit of modern drugs administered from the early stages of the condition, and his physical activity in the gym possibly helps him as well. Parkinson's is most noticable when someone is at rest, you can see a slight shake in Roach's neck, and there is a tremor in his voice also. Sadly, he will gradually decline, but it is admirable the way he has coped with his condition and continues to train fighters, It's hard not to admire the man, and the fact that James Toney actually respects the man says a lot, because Toney doesn't seem to dish out respect to many people.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 02 Feb 2007, 08:15

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
stujones wrote:On a seperate note, I have noticed that Roach seems to be becoming the "in" coach - good for him, I really do rate him. The only time he really dissapointed me was the condition both Michael Moorer and Mike Tyson were in for their fights with Holyfield (II) and Danny Williams respectively.

However, I am just wandering if there have been any articles / info related to Freddie's health. He seems to have had his parkinson's syndrome in much control and unlike other fighters (i.e. Ali) from what I have seen in interviews etc his condition doesn't seemed to be deteriatoring much at all over the years. His speech is slurred, but its been like that for years and he seems quite sharp when interviewed.
Ali actually has 'Parkinson's syndrome' not Parkinson's disease, they are similar but different conditions. The syndrome can be caused by brain trauma, though the precise mechanism is not known. Ali was slurring his words slightly as long ago as the Berbick fight, in the run in to the fight it was clear during his medical checks there was something wrong, as he was unable to complete some of the tests (touching the nose and the following the finger eye test I think it was), it's taken another 20 odd years for Ali to progress to the stage he is at now.

Roach also has the benefit of modern drugs administered from the early stages of the condition, and his physical activity in the gym possibly helps him as well. Parkinson's is most noticable when someone is at rest, you can see a slight shake in Roach's neck, and there is a tremor in his voice also. Sadly, he will gradually decline, but it is admirable the way he has coped with his condition and continues to train fighters, It's hard not to admire the man, and the fact that James Toney actually respects the man says a lot, because Toney doesn't seem to dish out respect to many people.

Ali's speech was slurring as far back as the Spinks fights and probably even a bit before that, members of his family have said that they noticed it when he was tired as early as 71/72... the medical test you mention where he couldnt touch his nose was done before the Holmes fight...

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 02 Feb 2007, 08:49

my bad.

I remember watching a documentary about Ali and seeing it, but I thought it was the Berbick fight. I remember him talking on a tour bus with this ropey moustache, and you could hear the tremor in his voice, and a slightly gurgling noise, disconcertingly similar to that being exhibited by James Toney right now.

They had Ferdie Pachecho on there, and he said how they had licensed him to box even though he failed some pretty rudimentary tests which indicated some sort of neural damage.

Sad that a fighter who gave as much as Ali did to the sport, and of himself in the ring, should be exploited like that. They should never have licensed him to fight Holmes or Berbick, and possibly as far back as Spinks, I know he had financial problems, but the guy was never exactly broke. It's the perfect example of where the administration of the sport should protect a fighter from himself.

Incidentally, I saw Muhammad Ali on some list of the top sporting earners in 2006, he was something like 5th! When did he suddenly start earning so much money?

chief · Post by **chief** » 02 Feb 2007, 09:58

jamesmcdonnell wrote:my bad.

Incidentally, I saw Muhammad Ali on some list of the top sporting earners in 2006, he was something like 5th! When did he suddenly start earning so much money?

Since his wife managed to gain control of his image rights again i think..

Slapsie Maxie · Post by **Slapsie Maxie** » 02 Feb 2007, 10:05

Ali ( or his wife ) did a deal to sell his image rights to CKX ( who also licence Marilyn and Elvis ) for over $50 million in 2006 which is where the money came from

They also get a % of the deals the first of which is on a snackfood called " The Greatest"

Slapsie

ABA Boxing · Post by **ABA Boxing** » 02 Feb 2007, 10:14

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Incidentally, I saw Muhammad Ali on some list of the top sporting earners in 2006, he was something like 5th! When did he suddenly start earning so much money?

Jan 11 Top earners in global sport from June 2005 to June 2006, according to Forbes magazine:

1. Tiger Woods (Golf) $90 million
2. Michael Schumacher (Motor racing) $58 million
3. Muhammad Ali (Boxing) $55 million
4. Phil Mickelson (Golf) $47 million
5. Michael Jordan (Basketball) $32 million
6. Kobe Bryant (Basketball) $31 million
7. Shaquille O'Neal (Basketball) $30 million
8. Valentino Rossi (Motorcycling) $30 million
9. Tom Brady (American football) $29 million
10. Alex Rodriguez (Baseball) $29 million
11. Carson Palmer (American football) $28 million
12. David Beckham (football) $27 million

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 02 Feb 2007, 11:02

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
stujones wrote:On a seperate note, I have noticed that Roach seems to be becoming the "in" coach - good for him, I really do rate him. The only time he really dissapointed me was the condition both Michael Moorer and Mike Tyson were in for their fights with Holyfield (II) and Danny Williams respectively.

However, I am just wandering if there have been any articles / info related to Freddie's health. He seems to have had his parkinson's syndrome in much control and unlike other fighters (i.e. Ali) from what I have seen in interviews etc his condition doesn't seemed to be deteriatoring much at all over the years. His speech is slurred, but its been like that for years and he seems quite sharp when interviewed.
Ali actually has 'Parkinson's syndrome' not Parkinson's disease, they are similar but different conditions. The syndrome can be caused by brain trauma, though the precise mechanism is not known. Ali was slurring his words slightly as long ago as the Berbick fight, in the run in to the fight it was clear during his medical checks there was something wrong, as he was unable to complete some of the tests (touching the nose and the following the finger eye test I think it was), it's taken another 20 odd years for Ali to progress to the stage he is at now.

Roach also has the benefit of modern drugs administered from the early stages of the condition, and his physical activity in the gym possibly helps him as well. Parkinson's is most noticable when someone is at rest, you can see a slight shake in Roach's neck, and there is a tremor in his voice also. Sadly, he will gradually decline, but it is admirable the way he has coped with his condition and continues to train fighters, It's hard not to admire the man, and the fact that James Toney actually respects the man says a lot, because Toney doesn't seem to dish out respect to many people.

Cheers James, I did know that Ali has Syndrome but had wondered if it had changed to Parkison's disease in later years. I remember on the Champions Forever video an in form Ali spoke of his ilness and said the major difference between "desease" and "syndrome" is the shaking. Back in 1988 (when it was filmed) Ali wasn't shaking although his motor skills were slowed, he said he never shaked (even when off the pills). Obviously, this has happening now and apparently he is in gradual decline.

However, whilst I think you could hear (in his speeches) the very start of something in the build up to the Foreman fight - voice quitening..... you can detect a steady but significant decline in relatively short periods. Most people were worried by the Norton rubber match - biggest decline was between the Spinks fight and the Holmes fight and then again between Holmes fight and 1984 (when diagnosis was confirmed). He seemed to steady between 1996 and 2000 but since then he looks frailer and frailer with each appearance.

Roach though seems to be if anything getting less slurred. Certainly any decline has been less noticable than Ali in those short years. I haven't noticed the neck movements, but as I said for Oquendo vs Holyfield his speech seemed if anything better than 2 years back. I did wonder if he is using any other medication (search as herbal) that maybe other suffers can look at.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 02 Feb 2007, 11:24

I looked into this a bit, Parkinson Syndrome, is actually not a condition per se. It is a number of different conditions which mirror the effects of Parkinson's disease. So this could be voice tremor, or slowed movements, shaking, etc. It can be induced by many different causes, including medication. Ali's condition is from cumulative damage to the brain, and when he was already starting to suffer from the effects, he was still fighting. The damage he took following the foreman fight when he maybe already had some neural damage caught up with him.

I would have thought, that lack of physical activity, and the natural effects of ageing would explain Ali's rather more rapid deterioration. He is quite heavily overweight, and has been for quite some time now, and has had life long poor eating habits. He was apparently a naturally lazy guy who liked to sit around eating sweets, chocolates and fried food, rather like a black elvis.

Roach by contrast is only in his early 40's, and when the condition set in, was probably in excellent physical shape, and given that he does a lot of pad work with his fighters is still in good shape, that has got to help.

However, let's see what he looks like in his 50's and 60's

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 02 Feb 2007, 11:56

As I understand it people used to think that Ali had the syndrome rather than the disease, and this would mean that the effects would be quite stable after a few few years, but in the last 10 or 15 years its become plain that Ali has the disease and so he has continued to deteriorate in a manner in keeping with the disease. His condition now is quite usual for someone who has had the disease for at least 27 years, possibly more.
The big question is did Ali get this illness through boxing or would he have got it anyway, maybe he had a prediliction to it and his boxing career brought it on early.
Toneys speech makes me wince, and the things he comes out with are often bizarre and makes you wonder if he's dealing with a full pack... I find it extraordinary that boxing commissions dont seem to take any notice when even high profile fighters start talking as if they had marbles in their mouth... I remember Terry Norris was almost unintelligable by his last couple of fights... but I suppose buisness is buisness!....

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 02 Feb 2007, 12:01

Unfortunately, garbled speech alone is not sufficient legal grounds for them to prevent someone fighting, so long as Toney and Evander continue passing health checks and brain scans, it is very difficult for them to take away their license.

Evander's was taken away based on little more than the fact they didn't want him fighting any more, they did it for the right intentions, but Evander could have absolutely screwed them so they had to reinstate him in the end.

As discussed in another thread, what they need are new and better tests, because from what I understand, a standard brain scan only shows up damage to the brain and areas which have died, not more complex types of damage which can only be seen on a microscopic level. I don't know if these types of tests exist, I suspect they may well not, as Alzheimer's disease can only actually be formally diagnoses post-mortem, as it requires microscopic examination of the brain tissue, something obviously not possible in a living subject....