The Cobra v The Grim Reaper , who wins and how ?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 03 Feb 2007, 08:19

I would class Brian Magee as European level, Froch beat him. So did Reid, but that (IMO) is among his 3 best wins. Hence why I'm not totally convinced that Lacy wouldn't have done what he did to the 2005 version of Reid to the 1997 version.

Yes, its an unproven level no doubt - but so far I think Froch has proven himself in European class pretty well. Matthew Barney should have been the European Light Heavyweight champion, and so should have Brian Magee.

As for whether I thought Reid was world class or not, again probably depends on your definition. If you only consider fighters like Roy Jones, Joe Calzaghe etc world class - then no he is not. If you consider geniune belt holders (like Gatti, Maussa etc) as world class then of course prime Reid was. I do think his performance against Ottke showed he was world class, but not Calzaghe, Jones Jnr, Collins class.

Some people (and I am one) like to view solid European title (or Euopean level) fighters as Fringe world class. I think a case could be made to label Brian Magee and Henry Wharton in the bracket - also Froch.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 03 Feb 2007, 09:03

Barney took the money and ran round that ring with Froch.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 03 Feb 2007, 10:28

Max Molyneux wrote:Barney took the money and ran round that ring with Froch.

I don't think you could say he took the money and run - thats how he always fights and it should have brought him an EBU title at Light Heavyweight.

If Barney fought Ulrich in the UK he would beat him 10 times out of 10.

Testiment to Dean Francis' ability that he beat (according to most) Barney with one arm for the majority of the fight.

It will be interesting to see what avenues lies with Francis if his shoulder can hold up for a few fights and he wins the Commonwealth Light Heavy title.

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 04 Feb 2007, 06:54

stujones wrote:I would class Brian Magee as European level, Froch beat him. So did Reid, but that (IMO) is among his 3 best wins. Hence why I'm not totally convinced that Lacy wouldn't have done what he did to the 2005 version of Reid to the 1997 version.

Yes, its an unproven level no doubt - but so far I think Froch has proven himself in European class pretty well. Matthew Barney should have been the European Light Heavyweight champion, and so should have Brian Magee.

As for whether I thought Reid was world class or not, again probably depends on your definition. If you only consider fighters like Roy Jones, Joe Calzaghe etc world class - then no he is not. If you consider geniune belt holders (like Gatti, Maussa etc) as world class then of course prime Reid was. I do think his performance against Ottke showed he was world class, but not Calzaghe, Jones Jnr, Collins class.

Some people (and I am one) like to view solid European title (or Euopean level) fighters as Fringe world class. I think a case could be made to label Brian Magee and Henry Wharton in the bracket - also Froch.

See, I'd have Magee as a solid top level domestic fighter, or at best lower European level. I don't think his career suggests anything more than that. Yes he was robbed against Tsypko, but that, for me, was a career best performance, and a level that he hasn't reached before or since.

And it should be remembered that Froch had lots of problems with Magee, it's not as if he came out in the first and blasted the Belfast man away. He was right in the fight until Froch's power got him out of trouble. Reid had no such worries, even though he looked disinterested in there at times during the fight. Their respective performances against Magee tell me that a faded version of Reid was better than an up and coming Froch, although I'm not in the habit of judging fighters on one outing.

I'll give Froch Barney. Although I'd stop short of Max's take on the fight, Barney didn't come to win. He was only there to survive, and his showing was even worse than his usual negativity. But, Barney on his day, was slightly above domestic level, so it was a decent scalp for Froch, and one that proves that he has the potential to reach a decent European standing.

After Froch's performances domestically, it's clear to see that he's above that level, by some distance too. However, there are much better fighters around Europe than Magee and Barney, and given his showing against the former, I'd have Froch somewhere around lower European class at the moment. Granted, there's still time for him to move higher up, but he's not reached the highs that Reid did. And therefore, I'm not willing to share your belief that he'd beat a peak Reid............yet.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 04 Feb 2007, 09:18

Aye, the problem with Froch's punch wins Is alot of people forget he takes shots to get those Ko's In.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 04 Feb 2007, 09:30

My major disagreeance with you GlitterMonkey is on Froch and Reid's respective performances vs Magee. I thought BOTH experienced problems vs Magee - who might have beaten both if it wasn't for his lack of a chin.

I think both would have been behind if it on the cards if it wasn't for the KD's. But of course, Froch didn't leave it to the judges.

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 04 Feb 2007, 19:44

stujones wrote:My major disagreeance with you GlitterMonkey is on Froch and Reid's respective performances vs Magee. I thought BOTH experienced problems vs Magee - who might have beaten both if it wasn't for his lack of a chin.

I think both would have been behind if it on the cards if it wasn't for the KD's. But of course, Froch didn't leave it to the judges.

If that's the only problem then it's easily resolved.

Reid always had the scorecards in his favour, due to the early knockdowns and the point off Magee. He fought like a man who knew it too. Reid coasted, just doing enough. Froch on the other hand was never completely in charge (even after his good start), and until the knockout, Magee still had a chance of nicking a decision. After the eighth round of his meeting with Reid there was no such chance.

As I said, I'm not willing to take such a bold stance as you clearly are on how Froch does against fighters who've mixed at top level. I guess we'll be in a better position to judge later on in the year.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 04 Feb 2007, 20:21

A couple of years ago I`d have laid everything on a good Reid win...but he seems to have moved on from boxing now, and if he ever does fight again he will only be doing so for the money...and if Froch thinks the public would be impressed by him beating an old warrior as Reid

He needs to look to the young lions on the other side of the pond if he wants to prove he deserves his high world rankings....who has he fought that proved anything??...Magee??...Magee was laughed at as an opponent for Calzaghe...and that says something in regard to Calzaghes opponents

The whole stable is falling down around Froch...if they sat succes breeds succes...then what does the opposite say?

Froch don`t do British boxing any good, his fighting style is an accident waiting to happen...so when he does face a decent puncher he`ll get bounced about...and he won`t face one of those till he gets the title...so he`ll be old by then to add to his short-comings.

Lets look for a young prospect to do us proud...Froch ain`t it

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 05 Feb 2007, 07:06