prime Holyfield vs Prime Lewis who wins??

Vicious · Post by **Vicious** » 06 Feb 2007, 15:02

Im more then positive that evander would whoop lewis if they were both prime, why? because look at thier fights, when evenader was already getting past it he still hung with lewis, and could've defenitly pulled off that 2nd fight. it was a draw in my opinion. imagine if holyfield was young , lewis would lose to him i think.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 06 Feb 2007, 15:14

I used to be the biggest Evander fan, and I was always jittery about Lewis. I had all the excuses ready, Holy will be too old etc. I just think Lewis was always too big, too skilled, too apt at long range. All wrong for Evander, a great fighter who could easily be 0-5 vs Lewis and Bowe.

I recall Holy-Bowe 2. I watched it as a kid and Evander won me over, as he found the strength to rally vs the big lazy guy. A moral winner if ever there was one, in all 3 of the Bowe fights. Watching it again, he barely won the 2nd fight and some had Bowe winning.

Vicious · Post by **Vicious** » 06 Feb 2007, 15:15

na bro i think holyfield would beat lewis prime for prime, evander was and always will be a warrior in the ring.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 06 Feb 2007, 15:23

He was an awesome fierce warrior. But his form at heavy was inconsistent and his best chance would be to outwork Lewis. To do that he has to get by excellent long range boxing - meaning a lot of outside fighting that just doesn't suit Evander. It's hard to gauge a prime Evander anyhow. Early 90s Evander had some poor/in bad shape challengers & he lost to his 1st serious test, Bowe. IMO Holy fights in surges, then burns out, then comes back. One great performance followed by a poor one is the pattern.

Vicious · Post by **Vicious** » 06 Feb 2007, 15:29

bro first of all holyfield beat bowe once too, so dont forget. and evander whooped tyson dawg. that version of tyson would KO lewis

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 06 Feb 2007, 15:31

Not content with just Americans dislking you?

icejack · Post by **icejack** » 06 Feb 2007, 17:03

I have to go with Lewis ,as said earlier Evander was a little inconsistant at heavy and brave as he was ,as he marched forward I feel he would have took a real whacking.Still as you say watching an ultra brave guy like Hollyfield fight was always an awsome experiance.Lewis always seemed a better fighter when he was fearful/respectful of an opponent.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 06 Feb 2007, 17:53

???

Holyfield when he showed signs of a pulse in their rematch at 37 years old counter-punched Lewis beautifully and really had Lennox very inaccurate by emplying some angles and foot movement. The much more active and quicker Evander of 1991 who doubled and tripled the jab would knock out Lewis.

Look at Evander in his prime 1987-through the Bowe rematch. He was already in his 30s in a body that had been through a lot of wars when he had his up and down dips in the Moorer and Bowe rubber matches, nevermind the fighter who could only fight 30 seconds a round vs Bean, Lewis, Ruiz etc.

The Evander who won the title had a great work-rate and would knock out a gassed Lewis by the 10th.

T.M.K · Post by **T.M.K** » 06 Feb 2007, 19:22

viciousmaussa wrote: I just think Lewis was always too big, too skilled, too apt at long range. All wrong for Evander.

Very well summarised my friend.

I agree with the comments that Holyfield is a legendary warrior and an amazing fighter (who though, we never a legit 4-time heavyweight champ - 3 is his max in reality), but even in his prime I think Lewis would just have been "too much". A prime Holyfield would still lose to prime Lewis (and Tyson, and Holmes, and Ali, and Louis....) but that doesn't mean that anyone who thinks that is a "Holyfield-Hater".

best wishes

"T.M.K"

meade95 · Post by **meade95** » 06 Feb 2007, 21:02

This debate has been on here a number of times....but I'll put my 2cents in again...

Style wise Lennox would always be a tough match-up for Holyfield. Simply because of Lennox's size and non-willingness to mix it up.....At the same time a "prime" Holyfield would have caused Lennox his own problems....as Holyfield's pressure and punch-out put would have caused Lennox to exchange more then he'd like....

Reality is.....a clearly post-prime Holyfield gave Lennox all he wanted in their rematch....I still feel (as did many, espeically at ringside) that Holyfield won their second fight.....He dictated the pace of that entire fight, landed the more telling shots and shook Lennox up (but simply didn't have the legs or punchout put needed to end matters).

I see a younger / prime Holyfield having difficulties with Lennox over the first 4-6 rounds....but bringing enough pressure to cause Lennox problems as well....I see Holyfield starting to cut the ring off more and more as the fight progresses....and Lennox finding himself in more and more back and forth exchanges.......The fight turns to Holyfield at that point......and Holyfield either wins via TKO mid-late rounds....or does enough to win a UNI DEC...

meade95 · Post by **meade95** » 06 Feb 2007, 21:04

T.M.K wrote:
viciousmaussa wrote: I just think Lewis was always too big, too skilled, too apt at long range. All wrong for Evander.
Very well summarised my friend.

I agree with the comments that Holyfield is a legendary warrior and an amazing fighter (who though, we never a legit 4-time heavyweight champ - 3 is his max in reality), but even in his prime I think Lewis would just have been "too much". A prime Holyfield would still lose to prime Lewis (and Tyson, and Holmes, and Ali, and Louis....) but that doesn't mean that anyone who thinks that is a "Holyfield-Hater".

best wishes

"T.M.K"

My comments on Lennox Vs Holy are already made....but regarding your comment above about Holy losing to a prime Tyson....

Not a chance in hell......Tyson always was...and always would have been made to order for Holyfield.....Holyfield stops Tyson 9 out of 10 times they meet.....(which is why I would have made a bundle $$ in 1991 had their fight come off then....and why I did in 96 when they finally did step int he ring....(Grabed Holy at 21-1 odds and made a mint).

generic screen name · Post by **generic screen name** » 06 Feb 2007, 21:11

I think Holyfield may lose this one, and I'm pro-Holyfield. That doesn't mean he won't make a good fight of it, which he will. Lewis would have to dig deep, w/Holyfield's heart.

Personally I think Holyfield beats Tyson 5 out of6 times they fight in their primes. Holyfield had the perfect gameplan to fight Mike. He made Mike uncomfortable by moving him back, he fustrated him w/headbutts, I just have a memory of round 1 when Tyson hit him after the bell, Holyfield just punched him back. Size won't be a problem at all.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 07 Feb 2007, 05:31

When they did meet lewis was on his game and Holyfield was busted up... If they met in their primes I'd go with Holyfield.

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 07 Feb 2007, 12:56

I'n not a fan of either these two....HOWEVER.

In my opinion, I believe that it would be a VERY close call, but with a Holyfield victory (on points)

But a draw is not un-forseeable.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 08 Feb 2007, 03:34

Crease wrote:I'n not a fan of either these two....HOWEVER.

In my opinion, I believe that it would be a VERY close call, but with a Holyfield victory (on points)

But a draw is not un-forseeable.

Im a BIG fan of both, but i agree with the close call. Id have loved to have seen it prime vs prime, but we rarely get that in boxing do we?

even mays big fight, big as it is, is not between two men at the peak of their powers

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 08 Feb 2007, 07:28

Lewis himself was 33, 34 when he fought Holyfield.

Lewis, like Bowe, would always have the right attributes to outpoint Holyfield, his style plays into these guys hands as they weren't just big, they were amazingly skilled too, Bowe and Lewis were rarities.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 08 Feb 2007, 07:49

I take Lewis, to win on points. Too big, too skilled, too strong, too good

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 08 Feb 2007, 09:07

Very toufg to call. Lewis beat Evander handy first time around and he was not at his peak. Evander was definitely over the hill. I think a peak Holy may be too fast and busy for a peak Lewis, and would win a late TKO or points.

Extremely tough to call as Lewis was also better fighter 2-3 years earlier.
I would just shave it for Holy, because of his speed and combos, supreme conditioning and heart and great chin.

Heartbreak_Kid79 · Post by **Heartbreak_Kid79** » 09 Feb 2007, 08:59

Holyfield was a great fighter, but he is still one of the most over rated heavyweights ever! In 1998 the Ring listed him #3 HW of all time! What a joke!
He never kept a HW title very long! (but luckily for him being in the Don King camp he was always in line for another quick shot at a title)

It was only after being dominated by Lewis people were saying Holy was shot... he went into their march 1999 fight a huge favourite (outside of europe that is) and it was only when Lewis outboxed him people started claiming Holy was on the slide.

Lewis too big too strong too skilled.

People always go on about Lewis' losses, but Holy was never a big puncher, plus Lewis would treat Holyfield seriously and would get in shape for the fight.

Lewis jab-a-thon to victory

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 09 Feb 2007, 11:34

Heartbreak_Kid79 wrote:Holyfield never kept a HW title very long!

Jack Dempsey & co managed to keep HW title for long periods as they only defended it once every 2 or 3 years.

Joe Louis and Larry Holmes retained belts for years but over mostly uninspiring oppositon.

To keep a heavyweight belt for a long time in the 90s would be near impossible with Holyfield, Lewis, Bowe, Tyson, Moorer (not to mention Foreman, Mercer, Morrison, McCall, Tucker, Bruno) et al competing.

To be able to always come back and beat guys you're not suppose to is a mark of greatness and Holyfield did it more times than most.

You make him sound like a Don King manufactured champ ala John Ruiz or Chris Byrd or Frans Botha.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 09 Feb 2007, 13:37

Holyfield was 36 in their first fight and 37 in their 2nd fight. that is pretty old. Lewis was 33 for the first fight, and 34 for the 2nd. 3 years is a huge difference when a fighter is in his 30's.
Look at Lewis when he fought Klitscho. He had declined dramatically. This was partially do to be overweight, but it was pretty obvious that there was more to it than just that.

Holyfield was a much better fighter 3 years prior to this fight. Holyfield was maybe 70% of the fighter that he had been in his prime when he fought Lewis. If he could give Lewis that much trouble (I am one of many that thinks Holyfield deserved the decison in the 2nd fight, but that's another story) at that stage of his career, a prime Holyfield should be able to beat Lewis.
If Holyfield had an off night like he did against Holmes and even more so against Moorer, than Lewis would win. However, if Holyfield fought his typical fight, he would beat Lewis.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 09 Feb 2007, 13:46

Alp the key difference your leaving out is that when Lewis fought Klit he was fat, rich, top dog, coming off a year layoff and semi-retired. He was only half interested in the first place.

That is no comparison to Holyfield who was in tip top shape and hell bent on relieving LL of his WBC belt so that he could be undisputed. And he would still go on to register wins over Ruiz and Rahman, 2 top 10 heavies to this day.

Cant compare the 2.

Heartbreak_Kid79 · Post by **Heartbreak_Kid79** » 13 Feb 2007, 09:00

overhand_right wrote:
Heartbreak_Kid79 wrote:Holyfield never kept a HW title very long!

Jack Dempsey & co managed to keep HW title for long periods as they only defended it once every 2 or 3 years.

Joe Louis and Larry Holmes retained belts for years but over mostly uninspiring oppositon.

To keep a heavyweight belt for a long time in the 90s would be near impossible with Holyfield, Lewis, Bowe, Tyson, Moorer (not to mention Foreman, Mercer, Morrison, McCall, Tucker, Bruno) et al competing.

To be able to always come back and beat guys you're not suppose to is a mark of greatness and Holyfield did it more times than most.

You make him sound like a Don King manufactured champ ala John Ruiz or Chris Byrd or Frans Botha.

Sure Dempsey et al went 22 to 3 years without defending a title.
Ok lets look at it this way, how many successful defences at HW has Evander made in his 4 reigns, six or seven maybe?

Lewis made 14 defences in total. That is a very impressive record.

So if popular concensus with americans that Holy was the best of his era, how about Bowe? Bowe clearly got the better of evander winning their trilogy 2-1

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 13 Feb 2007, 13:05

Heartbreak_Kid79 wrote:Holyfield was a great fighter, but he is still one of the most over rated heavyweights ever! In 1998 the Ring listed him #3 HW of all time! What a joke!
He never kept a HW title very long! (but luckily for him being in the Don King camp he was always in line for another quick shot at a title)

It was only after being dominated by Lewis people were saying Holy was shot... he went into their march 1999 fight a huge favourite (outside of europe that is) and it was only when Lewis outboxed him people started claiming Holy was on the slide.

Lewis too big too strong too skilled.

People always go on about Lewis' losses, but Holy was never a big puncher, plus Lewis would treat Holyfield seriously and would get in shape for the fight.

Lewis jab-a-thon to victory

People were saying Evander was shot and calling on the "old warrior" tpo retire dating back to after the FIRST RIDDICK BOWE fight. Also read any of the press regarding Evander before the Tyson fight. The sporting press, like the press in general, is very fickle and will change their tune after a good performance.

Regardless of whether he was favored, you can't change the fact that Evander was 36-37 years old, in a very battle-worn body, and clearly not the fighter he was in 1988-1993. The film clearly shows this for all to see.

Some are talking about this matchup like Holyfield-Lewis 11 never happened . . .when Evander actually THREW punches, he counter-punched Lewis beautifully and made Lewis miss the majority of his shots. WHy wouldn't he have even more success younger, faster, and more active? It boggles the mind . . . .

Some English Lewis fans are too delusioned by Lewis-Holyfield I, even though it was clear that Evander lost all heart after his stupid 3rd round predicition failed, and his punch output was PATHETIC. Just like in the first Ruiz fight, a completely listless performance.

But Ruiz would've beaten Holyfield in his prime, right??

Heartbreak_Kid79 · Post by **Heartbreak_Kid79** » 13 Feb 2007, 13:34

Of course Ruiz isn't in a prime Holy class

But then again You can't liken Ruiz to Lewis.
Lewis is streets ahead of Ruiz!

Just look at how both fighters handled David Tua differently!!