Rate These Defensively

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 06 Feb 2007, 11:10

I picked a few Boxers from the past and a few boxers from the present (or near past) who are reputed to have good defensive skills and wanted to see how they rated among one another.

(In No Particular Order)
Pernell Whitaker
George Dixon
Willie Pep
Floyd Mayweather jr.
Winky Wright
James Toney
Jim Corbett
Maxie Rosenbloom
Muhammad Ali

I know there are some other fighters that are considered great defensive fighters, but I am interested in the ratings of just these fighters.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 06 Feb 2007, 11:23

Speed favors the smaller fighters and in most cases defense means fast reflexes. Pep may be the best.... I just watched a few Whitaker fights in the last few days and have been "re amazed".

For a big man no one can compare to Ali IMHO. And Toney has one of the most efficient and effective approaches I have seen for defensive infighting. Pretty counter intuitive, I might give him the nod for unusual skills at the higher weights.

You want them sorted pound for pound or each rated on a 1-10 scale?...or just the narrative aspects....in which case that's all I have to say.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 06 Feb 2007, 11:23

Pep and Whittaker would be my top 2

The Durable Dane · Post by **The Durable Dane** » 06 Feb 2007, 11:37

1.Willie Pep
2.Pernell Whitaker
3.Muhammad Ali
4.Winky Wright
5.James Toney
6.George Dixon
7.Floyd Mayweather jr.
8.Jim Corbett
9.Maxie Rosenbloom

Victor*KC · Post by **Victor*KC** » 06 Feb 2007, 12:07

P4P James Toney has to be rated high it's very impressive for someone that started off as a middleweight and comes in fighting at HW old and out of shape. To be making this young guys miss! If you notice he doesn't really move like Floyd it's all upper-body movement..

Arbachakov · Post by **Arbachakov** » 06 Feb 2007, 12:22

Of those mentioned that we have sufficient film to view, Winky Wright is clearly the worst.

marlon Starling would have been a better choice as someone who was great defensively in a similar style to Wright...showing far more variation and flair in his work.

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 06 Feb 2007, 12:29

Arbachakov wrote:Of those mentioned that we have sufficient film to view, Winky Wright is clearly the worst.

marlon Starling would have been a better choice as someone who was great defensively in a similar style to Wright...showing far more variation and flair in his work.

Picked Wright, because he has a different style of defense, he has a high and tight shell to block and pick off punches as opposed to some of the others who depend more on making opponents miss all tegether or rolling with punches.

Victor*KC · Post by **Victor*KC** » 06 Feb 2007, 12:40

JAHamilton77 wrote:
Arbachakov wrote:Of those mentioned that we have sufficient film to view, Winky Wright is clearly the worst.

marlon Starling would have been a better choice as someone who was great defensively in a similar style to Wright...showing far more variation and flair in his work.
Picked Wright, because he has a different style of defense, he has a high and tight shell to block and pick off punches as opposed to some of the others who depend more on making opponents miss all tegether or rolling with punches.

Yes he picked up this style from Ike Quartey they use to train together If you notice they both fight similar except Quartey being more aggressive and has better 2 Fisted power compared to Wright who is more effective at blocking punches.. Wright didn't always fight like this thats was JCV had no trouble finding Wright..

Borinken25 · Post by **Borinken25** » 06 Feb 2007, 13:13

Sorry about that but I have to include Nicolino Locche and Wilfredo Benitez. No list of defensive fighters can be made without those two, of course that is just my opinion.

1. Willie Pep
2. Pernell whitaker
3. Nicolino Locche
4. Wilfredo Benitez
5. James Toney
6. Floyd Mayweather
7. Winky Wright
8. Muhammad Ali

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 06 Feb 2007, 13:21

Does Toney really have thios great a defence? I mean it's very, very good but I'd say it's a great defence for an offensive fighter - a bit like Duran or Archie Moore.

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 06 Feb 2007, 13:48

And this greatest?

Benny Leonard

Nicolino Locche

Borinken25 · Post by **Borinken25** » 06 Feb 2007, 17:06

Martin Sosa Cameron wrote:And this greatest?

Benny Leonard

Nicolino Locche

I have Locche in my list at #3.

But I miss Benny Leonard and I would put him as #5.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 06 Feb 2007, 18:47

Yep...I'm gettin old and senile if I can't remember Loche ought to be very high on the list.

torodecayey · Post by **torodecayey** » 06 Feb 2007, 20:44

pep- ali- benitez- whitaker- mayweather jr.- loche- wright- herol graham- hilario zapata- tippy larkin- starling-

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 07 Feb 2007, 06:54

I am admittedly of relatively poor knowledge about Jack Johnson compared to others on the forum, but I thought for sure that he was a better defensive heavyweight than Ali.

AndreWardFan2006 · Post by **AndreWardFan2006** » 07 Feb 2007, 07:30

1. Willie Pep, win a fight without throwing a punch and you deserve #1
2. Pernell Whitaker, crazy defensive skills especially against McGirt
3. Muhammad Ali, creator of the "Rope a Dope"
4. James Toney, a heavyweight's chin for a natural middleweight
5. Floyd Mayweather Jr., his defensive skills resemble that of Whitaker's

6. George Dixon
7. Jim Corbett
8. Winky Wright
9. Maxie Rosenbloom

I think Wright's defensive skills are overrated in my opinion which is why I rank him in the lower spots.

JC · Post by JC » 07 Feb 2007, 10:57

AndreWardFan2006 wrote:1. Willie Pep, win a fight without throwing a punch and you deserve #1

AWF the story you're think of is that he won a round without throwing a punch and it's not true, but you're right IMO he no1

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 07 Feb 2007, 11:32

AndreWardFan2006 wrote:1. Willie Pep, win a fight without throwing a punch and you deserve #1
2. Pernell Whitaker, crazy defensive skills especially against McGirt
3. Muhammad Ali, creator of the "Rope a Dope"
4. James Toney, a heavyweight's chin for a natural middleweight
5. Floyd Mayweather Jr., his defensive skills resemble that of Whitaker's

6. George Dixon
7. Jim Corbett
8. Winky Wright
9. Maxie Rosenbloom

I think Wright's defensive skills are overrated in my opinion which is why I rank him in the lower spots.

The "rope a dope" is an awful defensive strategy. Only someone with the incredible body strength, recuperative abilities, and pain tolerance of Ali could've made that plan work vs Foreman.

Any other great wins come off that strategy? . . . didn't think so.

Despite the lack of film I would rate Rosenbloom very high on the list, considering the incredible talent and depth of the light HWs and HWs on his resume.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 07 Feb 2007, 11:34

dempseyfire wrote:
AndreWardFan2006 wrote:1. Willie Pep, win a fight without throwing a punch and you deserve #1
2. Pernell Whitaker, crazy defensive skills especially against McGirt
3. Muhammad Ali, creator of the "Rope a Dope"
4. James Toney, a heavyweight's chin for a natural middleweight
5. Floyd Mayweather Jr., his defensive skills resemble that of Whitaker's

6. George Dixon
7. Jim Corbett
8. Winky Wright
9. Maxie Rosenbloom

I think Wright's defensive skills are overrated in my opinion which is why I rank him in the lower spots.
The "rope a dope" is an awful defensive strategy. Only someone with the incredible body strength, recuperative abilities, and pain tolerance of Ali could've made that plan work vs Foreman.

Any other great wins come off that strategy? . . . didn't think so.

Despite the lack of film I would rate Rosenbloom very high on the list, considering the incredible talent and depth of the light HWs and HWs on his resume.

I agree with Dempsey on all counts but would add that rope-a-dope was also so effective in that fight because Ali's opponent was young George Foreman.