Witter to Hatton: Give Britain what it wants

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 Feb 2007, 07:26

I'm just pissing in the wind here, I give up, there's just no point continuing, you're never going to understand.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 08 Feb 2007, 07:30

Whys Castillo a big fight? Didnt Corrales-Castillo PPV draw less than 200k PPVs? And Corrales is the bigger draw than Castillo. The only reason Castillo may draw is because of the demise of Morales/Barrera and the lack of a Mexican great and the huge Mexican population.

Witter-Hatton would be huge here - bigger than thr Tyszu fight on these shores. Unification means something, huge domestic rivalry means something, a 50-50 fight means something and a counter puncher and pressure fighter is an exciting match up. Few people who follow Hatton will not know who Witter is. Witter-Hatton wouldn't draw 50k but it would draw 20-30k here and you could push the ticket prices up higher than usual too.

Remember a 300k PPV doesn't guarantee more than $1m for each fighter - look at Barrera - Morales they were only getting $1m for their $300k+ ticket seller if what I've reads is correct.

liamlion · Post by **liamlion** » 08 Feb 2007, 07:33

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I'm just pissing in the wind here, I give up, there's just no point continuing, you're never going to understand.

Fair enough mate, but please give me the courtesy of answering these quick questions:

* Did Urango really dazzle US tv execs with his previous performance(s)? and/or Has Urangpo previously been showcased and promoted as a draw by US tv?

and...

* What did Hatton have to gain from fighting Urango?

Cheers

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 08 Feb 2007, 07:34

Here's my ten pence worth.

British fans interested in boxing want to see Hatton-Witter. British fans pay Sky subscription, Sky Sports subscription, plus pay per view. The Britih fan matters, and shouldn't be treated as a mug.

Hatton is no more appealing than Witter. If Witter is a negative switcher, Hatton is a hit and grab merchant. In fact in his last fight Hatton alternated running and grabbing in the latter 1/2.

Right now Hatton's win over Tszyu plus his so called personality is getting him by - i.e. "Fanks fer turnin' up ev'ryone, me and Juan's going to put a great fight on wiv Juan's style and my style you can't go wrong, Fanks fer turnin' up - it feels like me own backyard - we're going to give you ALL a great fight!"

As I see it Hatton's spiel has got increasingly cynical and insincere. Yes he wants to make the best money and yes he's away from the protective cloak of Warren and yes he's in America, but it's not working out IMO because he isn't the fighter that is advertised.

HBO aren't going to go along with this forever. Jermain Taylor can get away with disappointing showings because HBO have been building him for a while, and are awaiting a statement making performance, but Ricky can't bugger about.

This HBO contract will dry up, and by that time he will need fights like Witter.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 08 Feb 2007, 07:37

liamlion wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:I'm just pissing in the wind here, I give up, there's just no point continuing, you're never going to understand.
Fair enough mate, but please give me the courtesy of answering these quick questions:

* Did Urango really dazzle US tv execs with his previous performance(s)? and/or Has Urangpo previously been showcased and promoted as a draw by US tv?

and...

* What did Hatton have to gain from fighting Urango?

Cheers

In most eyes Urango lost a wide decision to Ben Rabah to 'win' the IBF, but was gifted a decision. His other top showing - an exciting draw with Mike Arnoutis - is also controversial though I felt a draw was ok.

states · Post by **states** » 08 Feb 2007, 07:37

I'm an optimistic sort. Castillo is Hatton's last fight on this 3 fight deal. If he dumps the IBF belt, then they'll be no need to fight N'Dou after that.

So he can come back to England, fight Witter in October/November. And we can all stop discussing this topic, which quite frankly is boring me to tears now.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 08 Feb 2007, 07:52

Can't really complain about Castillo. He's a near great, a superb offensive fighter and he beat a lively and ambitious opponent last time out. At a fair pace, I might add. I feel most ppl don't even 'get' Castillo's style. He was always subtle even in his prime.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 Feb 2007, 07:54

states wrote:I'm an optimistic sort. Castillo is Hatton's last fight on this 3 fight deal. If he dumps the IBF belt, then they'll be no need to fight N'Dou after that.

So he can come back to England, fight Witter in October/November. And we can all stop discussing this topic, which quite frankly is boring me to tears now.

Join the club mate, I'm bored shitless.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 08 Feb 2007, 07:56

viciousmaussa wrote:Can't really complain about Castillo. He's a near great, a superb offensive fighter and he beat a lively and ambitious opponent last time out. At a fair pace, I might add. I feel most ppl don't even 'get' Castillo's style. He was always subtle even in his prime.

I wasn't complaing about Castillo, I was answering the Hatton fans who claim Castillos a super fight and huge money. In terms of money there is probably very little difference between Witter and Castillo.

And as for needing US TV money and needing to fight in the US - the Tyszu fight surely generated the most money and that was over here. Bare in mind Witter will cost less than Hatton and Hatton can take winner takes all if he wants

As for Castillo I thought he looked terrible last time out and had him losing, think I might have had it a draw on the second time of watching it.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 Feb 2007, 08:01

Utter bollocks.

liamlion · Post by **liamlion** » 08 Feb 2007, 08:03

The truth of the matter is there is really no justifiable excuse on Hatton's behalf for avoiding Witter. The decision isnt fuk all to do with HBO and their choice of opponents, or concerns about selling out a venue, or Witter having to prove himself first etc, etc...

I think the truth can effectively be found in Hatton's 'recent' comments when he said something along the lines of 'I dont like Witter, why should I give him a pay-day...'

Hatton is the sole reason why this fight isnt happening - thats basically irrefutable. I just wish lots of other people would stop hiding behind excuses that can quite easily be exposed as nothing more than bollocks.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 Feb 2007, 08:08

Yes you are right. Hatton genuinely dislikes Witter I think, but I cannot say I blame him, Witter, at the bidding of the Ingles, has been bad mouthing Hatton for how long now five, six years. Witter is a belt holder without constituency, who is struggling to make a big paypacket. Hatton is a fighter who doesn't need a belt and who is earning 10 times what Witter is, and he thinks 'why should I give that mouthy twat the biggest payday of his career?' Wouldn't you?

Of course, they could fight winner takes all, that would settle that

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 08 Feb 2007, 08:12

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
viciousmaussa wrote:Can't really complain about Castillo. He's a near great, a superb offensive fighter and he beat a lively and ambitious opponent last time out. At a fair pace, I might add. I feel most ppl don't even 'get' Castillo's style. He was always subtle even in his prime.
I wasn't complaing about Castillo, I was answering the Hatton fans who claim Castillos a super fight and huge money. In terms of money there is probably very little difference between Witter and Castillo.

And as for needing US TV money and needing to fight in the US - the Tyszu fight surely generated the most money and that was over here. Bare in mind Witter will cost less than Hatton and Hatton can take winner takes all if he wants

As for Castillo I thought he looked terrible last time out and had him losing, think I might have had it a draw on the second time of watching it.

Castillo won thanks to some clever pacing and heavy duty body punching. This may be able to do away with Hatton. On the site i write for, while I was getting well into Castillo's last great run - Lazcano, Diaz, Casa - my colleagues were saying he was "hard to watch but effective."

JLC's a real craftsman who just keeps on chipping away till the wall comes down, always hitting the right spot to get a late fight/long distance result. Herman looks a good fighter and I really enjyed the fight.

As I said before, Hatton should fight Witter - for the British fans who have to pay £15 to see him vs a fairly poor gallery of part time titlists. If Witter is a stinker then isn't Hatton too? No matter the cheekie chappie speeches and humble working class lad personality, he isn't delivering on his promises for "great fights". America won't buy into his style much longer and then he'll need the Witters, IMO.

Without wanting to be harsh, Hatton is on a cynical little run that smacks of insincerity. Neither the opponents nor the fights are great, unless Hatton-Castillo is as good as promised.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 08 Feb 2007, 08:14

Hatton had a Witter fight written into his contract at one stage.

He also jumped on the ropes after a fight (Phillips) I think and shouted "you're next" at Witter.

Now he doesn't want to give him a payday.

How convenient.

Sorry guys I am not particularly a Witter apologist but Hatton should make the fight no question. He has moved the goalposts so many times. He said Witter should win a major title first, now he has the WBC.... what now?

Hatton is shortchanging his fans shortening his career with his bad living, and not making the best fights available. After beating Tszyu the world was his oyster he then fights Maussa, Collazo, Urango. Hatton missed his moment IMO, he should have gone for Mayweather/Cotto etc after beating Tszyu.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 Feb 2007, 08:15

Hatton hasn't sizzled in his last few, but Witter hasn't sizzled full stop. Witter's style is very hard to watch for all but the boxing purist.

states · Post by **states** » 08 Feb 2007, 08:15

It must be said though, that whilst Hatton-Witter not happening is Hatton's fault, Junior isn't doing too badly out of the fact. Yes, I'm sure he'd prefer to fight Hatton and land on the big stage. But every time another one of those tiresome Hennessey press releases comes out, with Hatton having no intention of taking up the challenge, Witter looks a little better.

Frankly, Hatton not fighting him is making him look far more dangerous than his actual fighting is right now.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 08 Feb 2007, 08:17

Juan Urango has been shown on US TV on a few occasions - aside from the Urango and Arnoutis fights.

Both Luis Collazo's world title fights were showcased as part of an undercard to a very decent bills. Miguel Angel Gonzalez is a decent name aswell.

Carlos Maussa's upset win over Vivien Harris was also shown as part of another big bill.

So the answer to Liamlion is yes, they have been shown and in meaningful fights. Some of Witter's fights post Judah and pre Ndou were also shown.... I remember Jay Larkin speaking at one of them expressing his disgust at the opponent and saying that this will not silence the critics. N'dou didn't silence the critics cause it wasn't shown in full (and the bits that were, didn't flatter Witter).

These fighters, as small a profile that they have in the boxing world and in the UK - have a bigger profile than Junior Witter stateside.

Visciousmussa.

Witter as appealing as Hatton? Sorry B/S... Not only does Hatton's personality shine to the non hardcore fans in the UK (alot of folk tell me its "good" that Hatton seems so normal and advocates fry ups and pints) - but to compare styles is another thing.

When was the last time Witter put in an impressive clinical performance, when was the last time he was in a good fight. Hatton was in a thriller in his fight previous to Urango and scored a clinical KO the fight before that, and then of course before that was Tszyu.

One dull world title fight out of 4 doesn't make you comparable to Witter. Hatton's dullest fight was still as exciting at Witter's best fight at this level.

Hamed had some dull ones (remember Soto, McCullough, Vasquez etc), was he ever labelled dulled. David Haye had a dull one vs Abdoul and Johannsen - is he labelled dull.

bugs · Post by **bugs** » 08 Feb 2007, 08:26

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yes you are right. Hatton genuinely dislikes Witter I think, but I cannot say I blame him, Witter, at the bidding of the Ingles, has been bad mouthing Hatton for how long now five, six years. Witter is a belt holder without constituency, who is struggling to make a big paypacket. Hatton is a fighter who doesn't need a belt and who is earning 10 times what Witter is, and he thinks 'why should I give that mouthy twat the biggest payday of his career?' Wouldn't you?

Of course, they could fight winner takes all, that would settle that

The fighters might go for it, but I cant see anyone's management or promoter agreeing to a winner takes all bid. Besides I know Witter is confident, but he has not fought at the same level as Hatton in my books and I have not seen anything to suggest he could handle Hatton, especially a motivated and angry Hatton, so if Ricky decides to go for a winner take all, expect Witter to come up with an excuse why it is unfair.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 08 Feb 2007, 08:28

Hatton's been looking like shit last two fights and his pre fight talk is the biggest load of wank I've ever heard. I don't think his personality shines at all, I've heard it before and the talk doesn't match the action. The world won't be his oyster much longer, HBO connections will dry up, and if he loses a fight soon - which he may well do - he'll have his tail between his legs.

Take the money and run is what's happening. In the most obvious and scripted way. The script is he keeps on with this unsatifactory run until he gets knocked off by an N'dou type fighter, which I see coming soon.

At least N'dou throws punches, which is something that Urango didn't seem to know much about.

Ricky isn't ever going to look like he did vs Stewart, Oliveira and Tszyu ever again and talk is cheap. Talk of "great fights" but you're trying to clinch before your punch has veen landed Mr Holland's Pies.

To me Witter is more of an honest pro. He stays in shape and I won't complain about Witter vs, say, Harris or Corrales. No, Witter doesn't have widespread appeal but for God's sake, any promote can PROMOTE a big fight, surely? Or is that a lost art?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 08 Feb 2007, 08:34

Yes Hatton looked, poor but it was still an exciting fight vs Collazo.

Technically, Gatti was very poor vs Micky Ward in their first meeting - fought a shit fight tactically and allowed the slower Ward to outstrength him. Did it do his bank balance, box office appeal any harm.

Even when Witter is fighting badly, it still doesn't make for an exciting fight. Take Witter vs Lynes for example, that was competitive - Witter looked poor, but still was a shit fight also. Hatton looked poor vs Collazo but it was one of the fights of the year.

liamlion · Post by **liamlion** » 08 Feb 2007, 08:34

stujones wrote:...These fighters, as small a profile that they have in the boxing world and in the UK - have a bigger profile than Junior Witter stateside...

Maybe Collazo, but certainly not Maussa and Urango. Their profiles are all much of a muchness. Being shown down the bill on a decent show isnt quite the same as being showcased as a main draw, is it?

Do you not think that the respective stateside promotional deals that each of those fighters are tied to, in any way highlights or reflects the profile they enjoy? Is it not interesting that Witter was given a tidy deal with Golden Boy promotions, yet Urango or Maussa havent been approached by any US promotional outfit as remotely influential or powerful?

states · Post by **states** » 08 Feb 2007, 08:36

Tell me, what exactly has come of this 'tidy deal' with Golden Boy? I'll tell you: fornicate all.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 08 Feb 2007, 08:41

Danny Williams and Howard Eastman both signed for King and were frozen out. So just because a promoter signs a fighter, doesn't necessarily think he is going to be the next big thing.

Nobody knows the ins and out of the Golden Boy deal. Perhaps it was just a way of getting the Eastman vs Hopkins fight signed. Nothing seems to happening with Froch and Witter with this regard so far. None have been showcased in the states since and Eastmans' one US fight since was not with Golden Boy.

I would actually say Urango's profile if anything was bigger than Collazo cause he has been showcased (main event) on Showbox and ESPN. Collazo hasn't. However, Collazo and Maussa have been chief support on big events (Maussa's being a hugely anticipated PPV - that drew good numbers) and Collazo has feature on big Don King cards.

liamlion · Post by **liamlion** » 08 Feb 2007, 08:44

states wrote:Tell me, what exactly has come of this 'tidy deal' with Golden Boy? I'll tell you: eff all.

Really?

Is getting a fight on a Bernard Hopkins' Staple Centre card not nothing?

Im also sure Oscar De La Hoya's influence within the WBC has not counted against Witter in securing his title-shot...remind me, Witter wasnt so well ranked with the IBF and WBA, was he?

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 08 Feb 2007, 08:46

viciousmaussa wrote:Hatton's been looking like shit last two fights and his pre fight talk is the biggest load of wank I've ever heard. I don't think his personality shines at all, I've heard it before and the talk doesn't match the action. The world won't be his oyster much longer, HBO connections will dry up, and if he loses a fight soon - which he may well do - he'll have his tail between his legs.

Take the money and run is what's happening. In the most obvious and scripted way. The script is he keeps on with this unsatifactory run until he gets knocked off by an N'dou type fighter, which I see coming soon.

At least N'dou throws punches, which is something that Urango didn't seem to know much about.

Ricky isn't ever going to look like he did vs Stewart, Oliveira and Tszyu ever again and talk is cheap. Talk of "great fights" but you're trying to clinch before your punch has veen landed Mr Holland's Pies.

To me Witter is more of an honest pro. He stays in shape and I won't complain about Witter vs, say, Harris or Corrales. No, Witter doesn't have widespread appeal but for God's sake, any promote can PROMOTE a big fight, surely? Or is that a lost art?

I tend to agree, Hatton peaked in the Tszyu fight or just before. He has had A LOT of fights, and think how many times his weight has ballooned before being cut to make 140. I believe its all catching up with him.