Boxrec Boxing Hall of Fame Ballot

taverner · Post by **taverner** » 07 Feb 2007, 09:53

Been away for a while, but couldn't resist having a go at this.

Lou Ambers
Wilfred Benitez
Miguel Canto
Antonio Cervantes
Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
George Dixon
Khaosai Galaxy
Kid Gavilan
Wilfredo Gomez
Emile Griffith
Fighting Harada
Jungkoo Chang
Kid McCoy
Terry McGovern
Bob Montgomery
Ruben Olivares
Manual Ortiz
Eusebio Pedroza
Pascual Perez
Aaron Pryor
Tommy Ryan
Michael Spinks
Barbados Joe Walcott
Ike Williams
Carlos Zarate

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 07 Feb 2007, 22:08

Ok here is my list:
Abe Attell
Tony Canzoneri
Marcel Cerdan
Antonio Cervantes
Billy Conn
George Dixon
Flash Elorde
Gene Fullmer
Rocky Graziano
Beau Jack
Joey Maxim
Mike McCallum (his 10 years is up in 15 days)
Terry McGovern
Jimmy McLarnin
Kid McCoy
Battling Nelson
Jack O'Brien
Rubin Olivares
Carlos Ortiz
Pascual Perez
Maxie Rosenbloom
Rodrigo Valedez
Pancho Villa
Joe Walcott (Barbados)
Tony Zale
(If McCallum cant be my vote then I vote for Ad Wolgast )

Ok this is the final edit, I just put my picks in alphabetical order.

List is a mix of guys who have a chance and some personal favorites who though they dont make it yet, I am building a following for, for future votes

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 07 Feb 2007, 22:35

JAHamilton77 wrote:Ok here is my list:
Antonio Cervantes
Billy Conn
Battling Nelson
George Dixon
Beau Jack
Joey Maxim
Kid McCoy
Pancho Villa
Abe Attell
Tony Canzoneri
Jimmy McLarnin
Rocky Graziano
Jack O'Brien
Maxie Rosenbloom
Gene Fullmer
Rodrigo Valdez
Ruben Olivares
Mike McCallum (he is 15 days short of the 10 year deadline, if you want me to replace him tell me)
Flash Elorde
Marcel Cerdan
(If McCallum cant be my vote then I vote for Terry McGovern instead)

List is a mix of guys who have a chance and some personal favorites who though they dont make it yet, I am building a following for, for future votes

JA that's a nice list, though you can vote for up to 5 more fighters if you choose.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 07 Feb 2007, 22:47

Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 08 Feb 2007, 00:43

iceman21287 wrote:
JAHamilton77 wrote:Ok here is my list:
Antonio Cervantes
Billy Conn
Battling Nelson
George Dixon
Beau Jack
Joey Maxim
Kid McCoy
Pancho Villa
Abe Attell
Tony Canzoneri
Jimmy McLarnin
Rocky Graziano
Jack O'Brien
Maxie Rosenbloom
Gene Fullmer
Rodrigo Valdez
Ruben Olivares
Mike McCallum (he is 15 days short of the 10 year deadline, if you want me to replace him tell me)
Flash Elorde
Marcel Cerdan
(If McCallum cant be my vote then I vote for Terry McGovern instead)

List is a mix of guys who have a chance and some personal favorites who though they dont make it yet, I am building a following for, for future votes
JA that's a nice list, though you can vote for up to 5 more fighters if you choose.

OK JUST SO THE PEOPLE COUNTING THE VOTES KNOW I AM EDITING MY LIST TO ADD 5 MORE

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 08 Feb 2007, 10:24

JAHamilton77 wrote:Ok here is my list:
Abe Attell
Tony Canzoneri
Marcel Cerdan
Antonio Cervantes
Billy Conn
George Dixon
Flash Elorde
Gene Fullmer
Rocky Graziano
Beau Jack
Joey Maxim
Mike McCallum (his 10 years is up in 15 days)
Terry McGovern
Jimmy McLarnin
Kid McCoy
Battling Nelson
Jack O'Brien
Rubin Olivares
Carlos Ortiz
Pascual Perez
Maxie Rosenbloom
Rodrigo Valedez
Pancho Villa
Joe Walcott (Barbados)
Tony Zale
(If McCallum cant be my vote then I vote for Ad Wolgast )

Ok this is the final edit, I just put my picks in alphabetical order.

List is a mix of guys who have a chance and some personal favorites who though they dont make it yet, I am building a following for, for future votes

Going by the original rules, since McCallum had a fight in 1997, he isn't eligible until 2008. (Btw, Sugar Ray Leonard had a fight in March 1997, and he isn't eligible until then 2008 either.)

I will put in Ad Wolgast for you when I count the votes after the February 15 deadline.
Thanks for your participation.

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 08 Feb 2007, 13:52

At this moment only 1 Boxer is in I wont say who because I dont want to influence voting.

Votes --- Fighters Recieving this # of votes

10 Votes - 0
09 Votes - 0
08 Votes - 1
07 Votes - 1
06 Votes - 12
05 Votes - 8
04 Votes - 12
03 Votes - 3
02 Votes - 17
01 Votes - 24

More Voters are needed, only 10 have voted.
I suspect that people arent seeing this in the
top section. Maybe someone should drop an
advertisement in PotP Regular section & also
drop one in the Current Scenes Forum.

(For the record this is a real preliminary count, I might have missed a few votes in there, so I wouldnt put 100% credibility in this count, its probably really close, but a few guys might be 1 or so votes off.)

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 08 Feb 2007, 17:43

JA- I really don't want to have this mentioned in the Current Scene. The people that are really interested in and knowledgeable of boxing's history will see it in the Boxers of the Past Section and vote.

However, I will do a "Time is running Out " Thread in a few days in the boxers of the Past Section as a reminder.

We already have 10 people that have voted (the 2nd Ballot only had 11) and there will be more people voting.

This is a lot of fun and the more knowledgeable people that vote the better!

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 09 Feb 2007, 00:14

Basically there's no way that more than two fighters will get in this round. Which isn't a problem, except for the fact that there's only been two previous rounds, and there are a lot more than two worthy candidates at this point. The problem is that right now there are so many candidates to choose from it will be tough for anyone to get in.

I would like to propose this and see what some of you think:

Adopt, for the time being, an NFL-style HOF voting process. Treat this round of voting as an initial round. Take the 10 fighters with the highest vote totals (more if there is a tie) from the initial round. Everyone votes on the 10 finalists by saying either "yes" or "no" to them. Finalists must receive 80% of the vote to be inducted.

I think that, at least at these early stages, this voting process may work better than the current one.

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 09 Feb 2007, 01:35

Actually if 2 more people vote alot of those guys with 6 votes will have a chance (as it is a choice group of fighters). If the man with 8 and the man with 7 make it and 2/3's of the guys with 6 make it thats 6 inductees, on par with other classes.

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 09 Feb 2007, 06:13

JAHamilton77 wrote:Actually if 2 more people vote alot of those guys with 6 votes will have a chance (as it is a choice group of fighters). If the man with 8 and the man with 7 make it and 2/3's of the guys with 6 make it thats 6 inductees, on par with other classes.

people with 6 votes right now would need to get 6 consecutive votes to get the 75% needed at this point, since 10 ballots have already been cast, so really only 2 have a legit chance to get in.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 09 Feb 2007, 10:13

I agree that it would be disappointing if only 2 guys get voted in. However, it's not a good idea to change the voting rules in the middle of the game.

After this round is over, we can see where we are. If only 2 guys get in this round, we can then tweak the rules in some way for future rounds.

There is still a lot of time to vote, so perhaps more than two guys will get voted in.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 09 Feb 2007, 10:26

1) Please don't change the rules. It's supposed to be a select band and not a free for all. The harder it is to get in the better it is. The best will slowly get in.

2) If some are worried that deserving cases are being over-looked then why not invite members to canvas for certain fighters by putting a quick synopsis together. This can go a long way to getting someone inducted and adds to the fun.

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 09 Feb 2007, 12:03

iceman21287 wrote:
JAHamilton77 wrote:Actually if 2 more people vote alot of those guys with 6 votes will have a chance (as it is a choice group of fighters). If the man with 8 and the man with 7 make it and 2/3's of the guys with 6 make it thats 6 inductees, on par with other classes.
people with 6 votes right now would need to get 6 consecutive votes to get the 75% needed at this point, since 10 ballots have already been cast, so really only 2 have a legit chance to get in.

Actually my math was bad 2 more votes would give them 66%

I was thinking 2/3's instead of 3/4's.

Actually it would take 7 consecutive votes to hit get over 75% (6 consecutive will get them 73.33%). But looking at the old HoF some guys have getten in with slightly less than 75%.

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 09 Feb 2007, 12:05

The Great John L actually can vote for 3 more fighters (if he wants) that might help a few of the borderline guys get closer.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 09 Feb 2007, 12:39

Yes, John L does have 3 more votes which could make a difference.

JA- It's, not quite that hard for some borderline guys to make it. There are guys with 6 out of 10 votes so far, and if they get 6 straight, they would be 12/16 which is 75%.

I agree with Ezzard about his idea to make their case for guys that they think should make it.
Something more than "I can't believe that more of you haven't voted for so and so". that usually doesn't influence people.

Mention the good fighters that he beat, his fighting skills etc.

I will make a case for a few guys:

Tony Canzoneri - Won the Featherweight, Light weight, and Jr Welter weight titles. Had a draw in a fight for the bantamweight title.
During his career, he beat HOF guys such as Johnny Dundee,Kid Chocolate, Billy Petrolle, Lou Ambers and Jimmy McClarnin. Lost two close decisons to Hall of Famer Barney Ross. Also had nice wins against Al Singer, Jack Kid Berg, and Baby Arizmendi.
If you have seen him on film, than you know that he was a skillful,fast, aggressive fighter.

Lou Ambers - Beat the legendary Henry Armstrong for the lightweight title. Also beat HOF fighters Fritzie Zivic and Tony Canzoneri. Also had nice wins over Baby Arizmendi and Cocoa Kid. Very skillful fighter.

Wilfredo Gomez - By far the best Superbantamweight champion ever, he also won the featherweight title. Career record of 44-3-1, with 42 KO's. Once had 32 straight knockouts. Had 17 successful title defenses, all by KO. Beat Hall of famer Carlos Zarate, as well as Lupe Pintor, Rocky Lockridge, and Juan La Porte. Pound for pound one of the hardest punchers ever.

Joe Frazier Beat Ali in the "Fight". Only losses in his career were to Ali and Foreman. Had he fought in most eras, he would have been the dominaint champion for several years. Fought in an era that had tremendous amount of depth in the heavyweight division and he rose to the top. On his way up, he beat Eddie Machen,Doug Jones, Oscar Bonavena and George Chuvalo. also beat Buster Mathis, Bonavena again, Jerry Quarry twice, Jimmy Ellis twice,and Joe Bugner. Fought a tremendous fight against Ali in their 3rd fight.
Had a great left hook, underrated right hand, good chin. His head movement made him more difficult to hit. Applied non stop tremendous pressure against his opponents.
Joe Frazier was truly a legend in the sport of boxing.

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 09 Feb 2007, 12:51

Ambling Alp wrote: JA- It's, not quite that hard for some borderline guys to make it. There are guys with 6 out of 10 votes so far, and if they get 6 straight, they would be 12/16 which is 75%.

Once again I am wrong..... I must be losing it big time. This time my math was correct, but I was looking at only the 5th (11/15) vote instead of the 6th (12/16). I did this because I made the first line 6/10 and that vote has already been cast.
Good Lord I must be going senile.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 09 Feb 2007, 12:56

I'm prepared to substiute Lou Ambers in (who by any measure is a plausible pick) -- for, say, Fighting Harada or Packey McFarland -- if other guys are prepared to also do revisions.

I'd lobby for Billy Conn but he seems to far off to have a realistic chance -- to my great surpirse.

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 09 Feb 2007, 13:02

pundit wrote:I'm prepared to substiute Lou Ambers in (who by any measure is a plausible pick) -- for, say, Fighting Harada or Packey McFarland -- if other guys are prepared to also do revisions.

I'd lobby for Billy Conn but he seems to far off to have a realistic chance -- to my great surpirse.

It'd cheapen things alittle bit, if its just to artificially lift guys in, actually I disagree with telling ho are the guys who are close to making it. Also I agree with the person earlier who said we shouldnt change the process. If only 1 or 2 guys get in so be it.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 09 Feb 2007, 13:14

JAHamilton77 wrote:
pundit wrote:I'm prepared to substiute Lou Ambers in (who by any measure is a plausible pick) -- for, say, Fighting Harada or Packey McFarland -- if other guys are prepared to also do revisions.

I'd lobby for Billy Conn but he seems to far off to have a realistic chance -- to my great surpirse.
It'd cheapen things alittle bit, if its just to artificially lift guys in, actually I disagree with telling ho are the guys who are close to making it. Also I agree with the person earlier who said we shouldnt change the process. If only 1 or 2 guys get in so be it.

Well, I think lobbying is a natural part of the process. We are in the 4th round of voting, and it's not that I am dead fixed on the 25 guys I have written down. There are at least 10 or 15 I could have nominated just as well (Ambers being one of them).

And I guess it's no different for you other folks.

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 09 Feb 2007, 13:22

pundit wrote:
JAHamilton77 wrote:
pundit wrote:I'm prepared to substiute Lou Ambers in (who by any measure is a plausible pick) -- for, say, Fighting Harada or Packey McFarland -- if other guys are prepared to also do revisions.

I'd lobby for Billy Conn but he seems to far off to have a realistic chance -- to my great surpirse.
It'd cheapen things alittle bit, if its just to artificially lift guys in, actually I disagree with telling ho are the guys who are close to making it. Also I agree with the person earlier who said we shouldnt change the process. If only 1 or 2 guys get in so be it.
Well, I think lobbying is a natural part of the process. We are in the 4th round of voting, and it's not that I am dead fixed on the 25 guys I have written down. There are at least 10 or 15 I could have nominated just as well (Ambers being one of them).

And I guess it's no different for you other folks.

People should take this into account for the next vote.

Are you speaking of changing your vote this time after already having voted or changing your 25 in the next vote? I like the idea of lobbying personally, its a big part of HoF votes in the real world.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 09 Feb 2007, 13:25

JAHamilton77 wrote:
pundit wrote:
JAHamilton77 wrote: It'd cheapen things alittle bit, if its just to artificially lift guys in, actually I disagree with telling ho are the guys who are close to making it. Also I agree with the person earlier who said we shouldnt change the process. If only 1 or 2 guys get in so be it.
Well, I think lobbying is a natural part of the process. We are in the 4th round of voting, and it's not that I am dead fixed on the 25 guys I have written down. There are at least 10 or 15 I could have nominated just as well (Ambers being one of them).

And I guess it's no different for you other folks.
People should take this into account for the next vote.

Are you speaking of changing your vote this time after already having voted or changing your 25 in the next vote? I like the idea of lobbying personally, its a big part of HoF votes in the real world.

If others are also prepared to change their votes I'd change mine this time.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 10 Feb 2007, 16:26

Harry Wills
Sonny Liston
Wilfredo Gomez
Lou Ambers
Floyd Patterson

Joe Jeannette
Jim Jeffires
Jake LaMotta
Joe Frazier
Khaosai Galaxy

Carmen Basilio
Charley Burley
Tony Canzoneri
Antonio Cervantes
Kid Chocolate

MARCEL CERDAN
Dick Tiger
Jim Corbett
Gene Fulmer
Emile Griffith

John L. Sullivan
Harold Johnson
Carlos Ortiz
Billy Conn
Packy McFarland

Danny Lopez was reluctantly dropped in favor of Packy....he's waited long enough.

taverner · Post by **taverner** » 10 Feb 2007, 16:51

I agree with those who think it would be wrong to change the process in the middle. We should let this round take its course and consider any changes for next time around.

Personally I'd say next round lets elect the 5 people who get the most votes, regardless of what percentage they get.

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 10 Feb 2007, 17:17

Collins2000 wrote:Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy
Bert Gilroy

good list but your exclusion of Bert Gilroy is troubling to me.