just a thought.. did vann cost earl the fight...

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 18 Feb 2007, 05:56

when micket vann chose to administer his own ruling in the 2nd round i think he mat have cost earl a chance of stopping katsidis.

katsidis never touched down, but was badly badly hurt, vann stepped in and administered an 'amateur' 8 count, and this gave the aussie/greek time to partly recover.

a referee may not administer a standing 8 count unless in his opinion the ropes had prevented the fighter from touching the canvas. if katsidis had touched down then fair enough, but he did not.

perhaps early could have landed again, who knows. but it was a great scrap, good heart from both little fellas.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 18 Feb 2007, 06:00

one poster said he touched down, i didnt see it but it might have been really quick. but yeah earl could have jumped on him in that case, but Earl was down three times, i dont see that katsidis would have been put on a loser from one KD

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 18 Feb 2007, 06:12

m1kee50 wrote:one poster said he touched down, i didnt see it but it might have been really quick. but yeah earl could have jumped on him in that case, but Earl was down three times, i dont see that katsidis would have been put on a loser from one KD

katsidis did not touch down, he did a bit of a knees bent lean back limbo type manouvre, but when he popped back up, his legs were gone, big time.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 18 Feb 2007, 06:17

rhino222 wrote:
m1kee50 wrote:one poster said he touched down, i didnt see it but it might have been really quick. but yeah earl could have jumped on him in that case, but Earl was down three times, i dont see that katsidis would have been put on a loser from one KD
katsidis did not touch down, he did a bit of a knees bent lean back limbo type manouvre, but when he popped back up, his legs were gone, big time.

yeah, looked like zab judah almost lol; but by the time vann did the count he seemed 90% to me,

i agree, if Earl had had the chance to jump on him, he might have got a 'legitimate' KD, but I dont know if that would have seen off Katsidis.

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 18 Feb 2007, 06:20

we will never know will we, but it was a refereeing mistake that not many have picked up on, the tv analysts did not mention it.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 18 Feb 2007, 06:33

If Vann hadn't have shown excellent refereeing to cast out the towel in the second, Earl wouldn't even have had the chance to chin him.

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 18 Feb 2007, 06:39

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:If Vann hadn't have shown excellent refereeing to cast out the towel in the second, Earl wouldn't even have had the chance to chin him.

vann got lucky in throwing the towel out ian, if earl had been laid out and badly hurt after that then what would we have been saying then !!

the big shot onto katsadis chin was completely out of the blue, to all of us, including vann.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 18 Feb 2007, 06:48

I was sure either Katsidis ass or glove touched down in which case a mandatory count was in order. Vann seemed to look after Earl a fair bit in there all the same - seemed to be some long counts and I'm not sure if those 'low blows' were low or not. Also I couldn't believe the towel got thrown out.

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 18 Feb 2007, 07:15

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:If Vann hadn't have shown excellent refereeing to cast out the towel in the second, Earl wouldn't even have had the chance to chin him.

Exactly. The first decision was evened out by the second.

And anyway, there was still plenty of time for Earl to stop the Aussie. Katsidis' legs were gone for a long while aftert hat shot, but Earl had had most of the fight knocked out of him in the brutal first, and was clearly fighting through a haze.

jimglen · Post by **jimglen** » 18 Feb 2007, 07:17

I'm glad you said it Phenomenal,
I was waiting for someone other than me to comment on the 'home bias'...Mickey Vann did Earl favours through the whole fight!

However, the fight going the way it went I think 1 more round would have been nice to see if Earl 'really' was turning the fight his way...he was doing great at times and it looked at times as though he could have won it...who knows.

Katsidis was much stronger and hard hitting and Earl did alright in trying to let him punch himself out, but I thought right from the start Earl, who can "box" should have boxed him, stick and move, lateral movement and clever boxing and only coming in to end it when opportunity was clear.

He fought the wrong fight in my mind, though it might not have made the difference in the end.

Good fight, too much British bias - evident when listning to the BS about Harrison - who is DONE!

REAL_DEAL · Post by **REAL_DEAL** » 18 Feb 2007, 07:38

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:If Vann hadn't have shown excellent refereeing to cast out the towel in the second, Earl wouldn't even have had the chance to chin him.

good point ian, thou i think Katsidis defense went down thinking the fight was all but over.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 18 Feb 2007, 08:23

rhino222 wrote:
Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:If Vann hadn't have shown excellent refereeing to cast out the towel in the second, Earl wouldn't even have had the chance to chin him.
vann got lucky in throwing the towel out ian, if earl had been laid out and badly hurt after that then what would we have been saying then !!

the big shot onto katsadis chin was completely out of the blue, to all of us, including vann.

Refs can't seem to win - in any sport! You could say Vann was lucky. You could say, as I do, that it was good judgement. It was a big fight and Earl was fighting back.

So Vann cost Earl the fight because he called a count when Katsidis didn't touch down...or Vann showed Earl favourable bias?

I thought Vann reffed the fight very well indeed.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 18 Feb 2007, 08:55

Us Brits need something to moan about. If it isn't the ref it's the judging. if it's not the judging it's the commentators.

That's why we need Audley Harrison othewise we'd all probably be mutilating ourselves.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 18 Feb 2007, 08:57

I do disagree that Vann throwing out the towel was a good thing. Yes, it is his decision - but it is sort of like a ref ignoring a doctor (and he has the right to do that) - not really the done thing.

However, I'm not sure you can say the ref administering a count cost Earl. It did give Earl a point if miracles happend and the fight went to the cards - which it might have done looking at Earl's eye.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 18 Feb 2007, 10:01

How do you score the 2nd round?
as both fighters were knocked down does that cancel each oother out as far as scoring goes, so then it would be a normal 10-9 round to one of the boxers.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 18 Feb 2007, 10:04

Rightly or wrongly, Vann's decision certainly turned a one sided blow out into a fight you wont forget in a hurry - Earl came amazingly close to a miracle win with that one punch, but no doubt that brutal first round had taken way too much out of him.

If he'd landed that punch first, before the knockdowns, it'd likely have been lights out for the Aussie with a decent follow up.

Excellent fight but Earl was taking far too many punches a round or so before the finish.

The Aussie looks like a world class hitter, I'd never heard of him before last night.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 18 Feb 2007, 10:58

How good is Katsidis? The new Fenech.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 18 Feb 2007, 11:03

bennie wrote:How good is Katsidis? The new Fenech.

He was exciting in the same way that Fenech was but if he equals the Marrickville Mauler's acheivements of world titles at 3 (nearly 4!) weights then I will eat my hat.

He is strong, hard hitting with a high punch output but I will reserve judgemet until I see him in with a world class fighter with an effective jab.

ciscokid · Post by **ciscokid** » 18 Feb 2007, 12:09

He did go down, unless you think he is some kind of limbo champ...

[/img]

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 18 Feb 2007, 13:33

ciscokid wrote:He did go down, unless you think he is some kind of limbo champ...

[/img]

good pic, maybe his arsed touched down...maybe not...

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 18 Feb 2007, 14:02

Also should Earl have had up to 5 minutes to recover from the low blow, when a point was taken off Katsidis for punching low.
It happened right at the end of the round, so i'm guessing the ref thought he was getting a minutes rest anyway.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 18 Feb 2007, 19:51

bennie wrote:How good is Katsidis? The new Fenech.

First time I have seen Katsidis - He is exciting but very rough around the edges. Clearly has some decent handspeed and power, but SO open when he attacks and there must be some doubts on his punch resistance.

I thought Earl was going to land another haye maker again cause he was still open. Lot of good things, but lot of other things he needs improving on.

I hope Freitas does return cause what a fight that could be.

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 18 Feb 2007, 20:06

katsidis reminded me of freitas, all power but wide open.,....

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 18 Feb 2007, 20:25

rhino222 wrote:katsidis reminded me of freitas, all power but wide open.,....

I saw that, hence my previous post.

Although I think a prime Freitas had a bit more variety and possibly a bit more power.

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 19 Feb 2007, 08:12

vann reffed this one very well.