"Hatton Win Would Seal Greatness"

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 23 Feb 2007, 07:55

According to Billy Graham that is anyway, taken from the BBC website:

Trainer Billy Graham says Ricky Hatton can claim to be Britain's best-ever boxer if he beats Jose Luis Castillo in their super-fight on 23 June.

"This fight will show what I have been telling everybody for years - that Ricky is the greatest fighter to come out of this country," said Graham.

"I have got a lot of British idols but to me Ricky stands above all of them.

"A lot of the greats are friends of mine and they tell me Ricky is the greatest British fighter, too."

Graham admits Hatton will face his toughest test yet when he meets Castillo in Las Vegas on 23 June but is confident the Briton will prevail.

"Castillo is a great fighter but not an awkward fighter and I think Ricky will really shine in this fight," he said.

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 23 Feb 2007, 09:15

He beat an arguably aging Tszyu on his home turf on a night when absolutely everything went right for him, and it was pretty close on the cards until the retirement. Apart from that he hasn't achieved very much at all. He may be one of the most decorated British Champions because of all the messing about with dropping belts and picking them back up again, but all this was done during an extremely poor time for the division when the top fighters of recent times had all moved up to Welter (Mitchell, Cotto, Mayweather, Judah, Gatti). He also refuses to fight the next highest rated proven fighter at the weight in Witter in favour of a Castillo whom already has a lot of miles on the clock and looked past his best on his debut at the weight. Apart from beating Tszyu, I think Ricky has done very well to be able to say he won the Ring Fighter of the Year award and also managed a place in their top 10 pound for pound list. I don't think he'll really achieve any more than this of note.

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 23 Feb 2007, 09:26

I dont rate Witter above Castillo. castillo may have looked poor agianst Noj-thingy , but how often has jose looked poor in tune ups and non-meaningful fights?

caster · Post by **caster** » 23 Feb 2007, 09:28

who is Billy trying to kid??

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 23 Feb 2007, 10:39

caster wrote:who is Billy trying to kid??

Pat Garret?

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 23 Feb 2007, 10:44

The problem with Hatton is that Tszyu is still the only fight on his record in which he hasn't been the bookmakers favourite going in.

I would think Hatton will be a fairly handy favourite against Castillo.

And before anyone says 'oh but that's because Ricky's so good' I don't believe it is, there are a few fights there in which he would either be a underdog (PBF), evens (Cotto) or even a marginal favourite (Witter).

I think Hatton is more of a favourite over Castillo than he would be over Witter, anyone agree/disagree with that statement?

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 23 Feb 2007, 11:03

steve689 wrote:According to Billy Graham that is anyway, taken from the BBC website:

Trainer Billy Graham says Ricky Hatton can claim to be Britain's best-ever boxer if he beats Jose Luis Castillo in their super-fight on 23 June.

"This fight will show what I have been telling everybody for years - that Ricky is the greatest fighter to come out of this country," said Graham.

"I have got a lot of British idols but to me Ricky stands above all of them.

"A lot of the greats are friends of mine and they tell me Ricky is the greatest British fighter, too."

Graham admits Hatton will face his toughest test yet when he meets Castillo in Las Vegas on 23 June but is confident the Briton will prevail.

"Castillo is a great fighter but not an awkward fighter and I think Ricky will really shine in this fight," he said.

The man has verbal as well as anul diarreah

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 23 Feb 2007, 11:05

Goz wrote:The problem with Hatton is that Tszyu is still the only fight on his record in which he hasn't been the bookmakers favourite going in.

I would think Hatton will be a fairly handy favourite against Castillo.

And before anyone says 'oh but that's because Ricky's so good' I don't believe it is, there are a few fights there in which he would either be a underdog (PBF), evens (Cotto) or even a marginal favourite (Witter).

I think Hatton is more of a favourite over Castillo than he would be over Witter, anyone agree/disagree with that statement?

I think Hatton will be best price 1/2 for the fight with Castillo, meaning Castillo will be around the 2/1 mark. For a Witter fight he may not be quite as short but I don't think there would be a huge difference.

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 23 Feb 2007, 11:08

Just checked it and odds are already available. Hatton is 8/13 and Castillo is 6/4. I think Hatton should win fairly comfortably and these odds are good. For non betting types, this means that for every £1 you put on Hatton you will get 61p profit. £1 on Castillo would generate £1.50 profit.

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 23 Feb 2007, 16:12

Of course Graham hears nice things about Hatton - Who is going to go up to him and say Ricky is crap ! - Anyway I like Hatton and also believe he is one of our best ever champions, that isnt to say he is the best only one of the best - I would say exactly the same regarding Joe Calzaghe - Ricky IMO points win but very close against Castillo but if he loses Witter could get a call - I wouldnt rule it out, because inspite of what Hatton says about Witter having nothing he wants, I believe he has and if Hatton loses it would be Hattons best way back.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 23 Feb 2007, 17:17

Billy Graham is talking pure bullsh1t here. You cant compare Ricky Hatton with the real British boxing greats i.e. Jimmy Wilde, Benny Lynch, Bob Fitz, Lennox Lewis, Jim Driscoll, Ted Kid Lewis, Ken Buchanan, Freddy Welsh. How will a victory over a shop worn Castillo (not even an ATG himself) put Hatton above these true greats?

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 23 Feb 2007, 17:31

dr_devious wrote:Billy Graham is talking pure bullsh1t here. You cant compare Ricky Hatton with the real British boxing greats i.e. Jimmy Wilde, Benny Lynch, Bob Fitz, Lennox Lewis, Jim Driscoll, Ted Kid Lewis, Ken Buchanan, Freddy Welsh. How will a victory over a shop worn Castillo (not even an ATG himself) put Hatton above these true greats?

Absolutely.

Hatton would have needed to fight and beat PBF and Cotto back to back to lay any legitimate claim to that status. A situation that is very unlikely to occur now. And even if it did, it would still be up for debate. Don't blame Graham for banging the drum though, even though it is insulting to the intelligence of the knowledgeable crowd we have on here.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 23 Feb 2007, 19:18

I think if Hatton beats Castillo he is comparable to Ken Buchanon, Jim Drsicoll and Benny Lynch from your list - the rest no.

I'm not complaining about this one.... sod Witter - this is the best fight for him. For me, Castillo deserve his #2 ranking at the weight with most experts. No complaints at all.

Of course I would like to see Witter before he retires - but if it is a choice between Witter or Castillo. I think Castillo is the more dangerous fight, the bigger fight and the most respect fight.

Seems like Hatton cannot win with some people. He relinquishes his IBF belt to fight Castillo and now Castillo is the easy option again. If Hatton would have fought Ndou it would have been criticised.

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 23 Feb 2007, 19:29

stujones wrote:I think if Hatton beats Castillo he is comparable to Ken Buchanon, Jim Drsicoll and Benny Lynch from your list - the rest no.

I'm not complaining about this one.... sod Witter - this is the best fight for him. For me, Castillo deserve his #2 ranking at the weight with most experts. No complaints at all.

Of course I would like to see Witter before he retires - but if it is a choice between Witter or Castillo. I think Castillo is the more dangerous fight, the bigger fight and the most respect fight.

Seems like Hatton cannot win with some people. He relinquishes his IBF belt to fight Castillo and now Castillo is the easy option again. If Hatton would have fought Ndou it would have been criticised.

Absolutely right. If Hatton had chosen to defend against N'dou people would be accusing him of ducking Castillo. Castillo/Hatton is the best fight that can be made at light-welter.

states · Post by **states** » 23 Feb 2007, 19:33

I agree Stu. I'm not going to knock Hatton for fighting Castillo instead of Witter. I'm not happy that he wasn't able to fight Witter instead of Maussu, Collazo or Urango though. Hopefully (and I really am being optimistic here) Hatton can come through Castillo, which is the last fight on his current contracts with both Fight Academy and HBO, and come back to Britain and fight Witter in late October/early November.

Not because I think it's a particularly great fight (Maussa, Collazo and Urango weren't great fights either), and not so much because I want to finally see who the best in Britain is, because I think Hatton beats Witter with something to spare. No, the main reason I want to see it is because I'm sick of hearing about the fight. Hatton has to take some stick, because he's never really pushed for it. But Junior's biggest claim for a Hatton fight is the fact that they were born in the same country. If he wasn't British, Witter would have been ignored by the vast majority of posters who cry that Hatton must fight him.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 24 Feb 2007, 06:04

I think a peak Castillo - 1998-2000 version - eats up any version of Hatton.

I don't think ppl uderstand what an outstanding fighter he is. As a weight drained 30 something he went on a superb run, beating Casamayor, Lazcano and (vacated IBF champion) Julio Diaz - a run only broken by Corrales' gumshield spitting (which 'crito got all upset about when Freitas did it).

In his peak, he took Mayweather all the way (1st fight), won & drew with the pound for pound worthy Stevie Johnston (fabulous boxer, 2nd fight being an amazing fight), won a vicious war with former WBC titlist Cesar Bazan.

Now he looks fleshy and not as sharp with his punches. However, he appears able to cope with his age, seen when he edged the fierce, fresh Ngoudjo. I think he knows enough to beat Hatton.

So he's not as decorated or precise or powerful as Tszyu. But this is one man who can f uck you up inside (look at the state of Bazan's, Lazcano's, Diaz's faces), is patient and calculating, knows how to pace a hard 12 rds & has faced some of the best fighters in the past 10+ yrs.

His Mexican fights are also noteworthy. The fights with Jauregei (future IBF lighweight champion) were meant to be amazing fights with Castillo winning but stopped on cuts. He was beating Julio Alvarez in another war - Mexican featherweight title - but given a WEIRDO stoppage - JLC seemed to think he'd won.

Andy Mac · Post by **Andy Mac** » 24 Feb 2007, 08:02

dr_devious wrote:Billy Graham is talking pure bullsh1t here. You cant compare Ricky Hatton with the real British boxing greats i.e. Jimmy Wilde, Benny Lynch, Bob Fitz, Lennox Lewis, Jim Driscoll, Ted Kid Lewis, Ken Buchanan, Freddy Welsh. How will a victory over a shop worn Castillo (not even an ATG himself) put Hatton above these true greats?

Would that be the same Castillo that is an ATG when it suits Mayflower fans?

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 24 Feb 2007, 08:05

Andy Mac wrote:
dr_devious wrote:Billy Graham is talking pure bullsh1t here. You cant compare Ricky Hatton with the real British boxing greats i.e. Jimmy Wilde, Benny Lynch, Bob Fitz, Lennox Lewis, Jim Driscoll, Ted Kid Lewis, Ken Buchanan, Freddy Welsh. How will a victory over a shop worn Castillo (not even an ATG himself) put Hatton above these true greats?
Would that be the same Castillo that is an ATG when it suits Mayflower fans?

He was 28 and prime when he faced Mayweather, he'll be 33 shop worn and past prime when he faces Hatton.

Andy Mac · Post by **Andy Mac** » 24 Feb 2007, 10:20

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
Andy Mac wrote:
dr_devious wrote:Billy Graham is talking pure bullsh1t here. You cant compare Ricky Hatton with the real British boxing greats i.e. Jimmy Wilde, Benny Lynch, Bob Fitz, Lennox Lewis, Jim Driscoll, Ted Kid Lewis, Ken Buchanan, Freddy Welsh. How will a victory over a shop worn Castillo (not even an ATG himself) put Hatton above these true greats?
Would that be the same Castillo that is an ATG when it suits Mayflower fans?
He was 28 and prime when he faced Mayweather, he'll be 33 shop worn and past prime when he faces Hatton.

Just like Oscar will be 34 and past his prime in May?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 24 Feb 2007, 10:56

viciousmaussa wrote:I think a peak Castillo - 1998-2000 version - eats up any version of Hatton.

I don't think ppl uderstand what an outstanding fighter he is. As a weight drained 30 something he went on a superb run, beating Casamayor, Lazcano and (vacated IBF champion) Julio Diaz - a run only broken by Corrales' gumshield spitting (which 'crito got all upset about when Freitas did it).

In his peak, he took Mayweather all the way (1st fight), won & drew with the pound for pound worthy Stevie Johnston (fabulous boxer, 2nd fight being an amazing fight), won a vicious war with former WBC titlist Cesar Bazan.

Now he looks fleshy and not as sharp with his punches. However, he appears able to cope with his age, seen when he edged the fierce, fresh Ngoudjo. I think he knows enough to beat Hatton.

So he's not as decorated or precise or powerful as Tszyu. But this is one man who can f uck you up inside (look at the state of Bazan's, Lazcano's, Diaz's faces), is patient and calculating, knows how to pace a hard 12 rds & has faced some of the best fighters in the past 10+ yrs.

His Mexican fights are also noteworthy. The fights with Jauregei (future IBF lighweight champion) were meant to be amazing fights with Castillo winning but stopped on cuts. He was beating Julio Alvarez in another war - Mexican featherweight title - but given a WEIRDO stoppage - JLC seemed to think he'd won.

I don't necessarily agree with your timeline there Maussa - I think his career best performance was his win over Casamayor. For me, the only fighter to truly beat Casamayor - he was busting him up at the end and it was almost sad to see (as a fan of Casa - but good to see him comeback). That alongside the Lazcano performance were everybit as good as his fights with Johnston perforance wise (I thought he lost the rematch with Johnston).

So I think you could at least say his peak was 1998-2004... I think you saying that his peak was over in 2000 is just an excuse for if Hatton beats him (and you can say well he was seven years past his best). He's not.

lurkyshaka · Post by **lurkyshaka** » 24 Feb 2007, 10:57

Billy may be getting a little bit carried away here with this statement, but beating Castillo will still be a major achievement and will boost Hatton's all time great Brit fighter credentials some way.
People are beginning to talk about this fight as though Castillo is just some shot bum and a victory over him shouldn't be considered anything special....when it certainly should!

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 24 Feb 2007, 11:04

lurkyshaka wrote:Billy may be getting a little bit carried away here with this statement, but beating Castillo will still be a major achievement and will boost Hatton's all time great Brit fighter credentials some way.
People are beginning to talk about this fight as though Castillo is just some shot bum and a victory over him shouldn't be considered anything special....when it certainly should!

yep.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 24 Feb 2007, 11:08

stujones wrote:
viciousmaussa wrote:I think a peak Castillo - 1998-2000 version - eats up any version of Hatton.

I don't think ppl uderstand what an outstanding fighter he is. As a weight drained 30 something he went on a superb run, beating Casamayor, Lazcano and (vacated IBF champion) Julio Diaz - a run only broken by Corrales' gumshield spitting (which 'crito got all upset about when Freitas did it).

In his peak, he took Mayweather all the way (1st fight), won & drew with the pound for pound worthy Stevie Johnston (fabulous boxer, 2nd fight being an amazing fight), won a vicious war with former WBC titlist Cesar Bazan.

Now he looks fleshy and not as sharp with his punches. However, he appears able to cope with his age, seen when he edged the fierce, fresh Ngoudjo. I think he knows enough to beat Hatton.

So he's not as decorated or precise or powerful as Tszyu. But this is one man who can f uck you up inside (look at the state of Bazan's, Lazcano's, Diaz's faces), is patient and calculating, knows how to pace a hard 12 rds & has faced some of the best fighters in the past 10+ yrs.

His Mexican fights are also noteworthy. The fights with Jauregei (future IBF lighweight champion) were meant to be amazing fights with Castillo winning but stopped on cuts. He was beating Julio Alvarez in another war - Mexican featherweight title - but given a WEIRDO stoppage - JLC seemed to think he'd won.
I don't necessarily agree with your timeline there Maussa - I think his career best performance was his win over Casamayor. For me, the only fighter to truly beat Casamayor - he was busting him up at the end and it was almost sad to see (as a fan of Casa - but good to see him comeback). That alongside the Lazcano performance were everybit as good as his fights with Johnston perforance wise (I thought he lost the rematch with Johnston).

So I think you could at least say his peak was 1998-2004... I think you saying that his peak was over in 2000 is just an excuse for if Hatton beats him (and you can say well he was seven years past his best). He's not.

I'm certainly not making excuses. I think he still knows enough to perhaps beat Hatton.

I believe he peaked in the Johnston 2 (I had Castillo losing the 1st and winning the 2nd, both barely), Bazan and Mayweather 1 fights.

By Mayweather 2 he'd already said he belonged at 140 though he'd give a good performance losing, mayweather not really looking the boss until the last 4 rds.

After that his goal was to go up to 140 and fight Tszyu. However, the WBC 135 became vacant, he boiled down ("I had to cut off an arm," he said). Didn't seem to have much in the tank vs Lazcano - hence JLC taking off most of the mid rounds.

When you look at the Casa and Diaz fights, Castillo was very sparing in his punch output. He showed he could pace himself & dish out the pain over te championship rounds...but physically not the man who threw 1000 shots vs Johnston 2, outworked Mayweather 1 in the latter 1/2 and rolled Bazan on his back.

I can't complain - from Lazcano to the knockdowns v Corrales 1, that was the greatest run of his career. But ironically this spared us his full potential, as he should've been at 140. Maybe he can adjust to the weight and do great things. I hope so.

IMO he should have been at 140 at that time, but he did some sterling work to get recognition as an elite fighter so I can't complain.

"Hatton Win Would Seal Greatness"

"Hatton Win Would Seal Greatness"

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