The board should look into this

[DIRT SUGAR]

Just the sort of thing fighters should not put themselves through just to get a fight. With all the up-to-date information on nutrition and how to look after one's body I find it unbelievable that fighters allow themselves to go through the kind of punishment to make-the-weight that the lad in this article allegedly did. Ridiculous and more importantly, extremely dangerous. So what if he won, how could he give his best in the ring?

http://www.britishboxing.net/news_2136- ... -fans.html

[jamesmcdonnell]

This is nothing new either. I remember Charlie Magri telling me that he lost 8 lbs in one session once, then after eating some grapes and drinking two glasses of wine, found that he was 6 1/2 lbs over the weight the next day, which was the day before his fight! He then lost the 6 1/2 pounds that day, to come in on weight the next day!

And that's as a bloody flyweight!

It's one of the most worrying aspects of the fight game for me, that people go into an incredibly demanding and dangerous event, in very poor physical condition. Can you imagine people entering a marathon after having not eaten or drunk anything for 48 hours?

[Top Dog]

I heard Scott Dixon lost over 14lbs in 3 days when he took on Jamie Moore, still KO'D Moore, fuckin mad eh?

[DIRT SUGAR]

But Charlie Magri fought in the 1970s and 80s!!!

In this day and age it shouldn't happen surely?

And Scott Dixon then got knocked out in the first round against Takaloo by the first decent shot that hit him. It catches up with fighters when they least expect it. I remember a weight-drained Duke McKenzie getting knocked out by a jab in round 1 of one of his title fights. He just crumbled to the floor like he'd been shot.

I suppose it's learnt behaviour on the fighter's part and laziness from their trainers who don't monitor their weight enough. Inexcusable in my opinion.

[Max Molyneux]

When was It when they changed the weigh Inns to the day before Instead?

[jamesmcdonnell]

But Charlie Magri fought in the 1970s and 80s!!!

In this day and age it shouldn't happen surely?

And Scott Dixon then got knocked out in the first round against Takaloo by the first decent shot that hit him. It catches up with fighters when they least expect it. I remember a weight-drained Duke McKenzie getting knocked out by a jab in round 1 of one of his title fights. He just crumbled to the floor like he'd been shot.

I suppose it's learnt behaviour on the fighter's part and laziness from their trainers who don't monitor their weight enough. Inexcusable in my opinion.

Yes he did, things were definetly worse then, there were no nutritionists on board at all, fighters routinely starved themselves to make weight, and it still happens today unfortunately. Look at how fekking awful Miguel Cotto came in for his last fight at 140, it was scary how emaciated he looked. Look at Scott Harrison's appearance before every single one of his fights, that guy was practically emaciated to make weight.

[Wales]

Day before weigh ins.... Was it in the early 80's, a WBC thing to start with wasnt it?

Its the nature of the beast isnt it, the bigger you are the better advantage you have over your opponent. happens up and down the country all the time.

[dondada]

I suppose it's learnt behaviour on the fighter's part and laziness from their trainers who don't monitor their weight enough. Inexcusable in my opinion.

This might be the case sometimes but it's totally insulting to level this criticism at Francis Jones. He didn't have a fight anywhere on the horizon, was called up at short notice and was walking around at, I believe, 157.

This lad is a nightclub bouncer and has temptations of all sorts surrounding him - his self-discipline is incredible.

[SticknMove]

The weight making issue is for me the single most important aspect in the health and safety of a boxer, given the nature of the sport and its huge demands. I know all fighters have to go through it, but some of the horror stories you hear and have been privy to would make you hair stand on end. When I fought as an amateur I did some pretty rediculous things to cut the weight in championships and could give first hand testimony to its effects. Feeling dehydrated, physically drained and the single most important fact how it affects you mentally. You are never as sharp as you should be and how would you be when the brain has been starved of vital nutrition.

This leads up to a point that I always felt intuitively, through my own limited experience, the link between brain trauma injury and the relationship to the weight making process. I remember Barry McGuigan suggesting a similar relationship after another tragedy in the ring when he appeared on Question Time years ago, and it echoed my feelings on the matter. I have also always felt that there was a disproportionate consequence for guys in the lower weight divisions compared to guys in the upper weight divisions (ie. How many have HWs suffered the ultimate tragic fate). Now I don’t know whether that is fact or not (I obviously have not done any research) but there seemed to me a disproportionate amount of fighters losing their lives in the lower weight divisions where the weight making process is more marked.

There are no solutions to this issue other than the the discipline of the boxer and the common sense of the trainer. Both of which can be questioned at times. As someone else said It is the nature of the beast.

[DIRT SUGAR]

I suppose it's learnt behaviour on the fighter's part and laziness from their trainers who don't monitor their weight enough. Inexcusable in my opinion.

This might be the case sometimes but it's totally insulting to level this criticism at Francis Jones. He didn't have a fight anywhere on the horizon, was called up at short notice and was walking around at, I believe, 157.

This lad is a nightclub bouncer and has temptations of all sorts surrounding him - his self-discipline is incredible.

It's no insult at all. Don't give me this crap about temptation blah blah.

He's a licensed professional fighter and I'm judging him as such. He shouldn't have put himself through that for a payday. What if he'd lost, or got badly knocked out. It would have meant a ban and even less money the next time out.

And I've been around enough fighters to know how difficult it is to get fights.

And I'm not levelling any personal insult but any fighter who puts himself through that is daft IMHO. If he can put himself through that level of pain to get to the weight, surely he could keep to a sensible diet whereby his body stays at a sensible weight.

[DIRT SUGAR]

I suppose it's learnt behaviour on the fighter's part and laziness from their trainers who don't monitor their weight enough. Inexcusable in my opinion.

This might be the case sometimes but it's totally insulting to level this criticism at Francis Jones. He didn't have a fight anywhere on the horizon, was called up at short notice and was walking around at, I believe, 157.

This lad is a nightclub bouncer and has temptations of all sorts surrounding him - his self-discipline is incredible.

Not meant to be an insult in anyway, just an observation on what I think is poor preparation on a fighter's part. If he's struggling to get fights surely it's even more important for him to keep in excellent condition for when a fight turns up.

He shouldn't have had to put himself through that for a payday. What if he'd lost, or got badly knocked out. It would have meant a suspension and even less money the next time out.

I've been around enough fighters to know how difficult it is to get fights.

But If a fighter can show so much dedication in putting himself through that level of pain just get to the weight, surely he could show some restraint on a day-to-day basis and keep to a sensible diet whereby he keeps his weight sensibly near to his fighting weight. If fighters looked into it they'd find they don't have to starve themselves to keep within a sensible distance of their fighting weight. It's what you eat as much as how much.

Oh, and as he's (he being any fighter, not the lad in question) getting paid, and he is severely weakened by weight-making, it means he just can't expect to perform at his best on fight night, thereby he's selling himself short.

Boxing is a fcuking hard enough business as it is and I'm sorry, but from my experience, sometimes the fighters don't make it any easier on themselves, especially when it comes to dieting and weight-making.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I suppose it's learnt behaviour on the fighter's part and laziness from their trainers who don't monitor their weight enough. Inexcusable in my opinion.

This might be the case sometimes but it's totally insulting to level this criticism at Francis Jones. He didn't have a fight anywhere on the horizon, was called up at short notice and was walking around at, I believe, 157.

This lad is a nightclub bouncer and has temptations of all sorts surrounding him - his self-discipline is incredible.

Not meant to be an insult in anyway, just an observation on what I think is poor preparation on a fighter's part. If he's struggling to get fights surely it's even more important for him to keep in excellent condition for when a fight turns up.

He shouldn't have had to put himself through that for a payday. What if he'd lost, or got badly knocked out. It would have meant a suspension and even less money the next time out.

I've been around enough fighters to know how difficult it is to get fights.

But If a fighter can show so much dedication in putting himself through that level of pain just get to the weight, surely he could show some restraint on a day-to-day basis and keep to a sensible diet whereby he keeps his weight sensibly near to his fighting weight. If fighters looked into it they'd find they don't have to starve themselves to keep within a sensible distance of their fighting weight. It's what you eat as much as how much.

Oh, and as he's (he being any fighter, not the lad in question) getting paid, and he is severely weakened by weight-making, it means he just can't expect to perform at his best on fight night, thereby he's selling himself short.

Boxing is a fcuking hard enough business as it is and I'm sorry, but from my experience, sometimes the fighters don't make it any easier on themselves, especially when it comes to dieting and weight-making.

It's the nature of the sport, as fighters fight sporadically, and often have other jobs to make a living, it's not so easy for them to always be in shape. Not everyone is Bernard Hopkins, and if you're not fighting often, where's the motivation to get down that gym and kill yourself? If he was walking around at 157, he was hardly in terrible shape, if you get a late call up, then of course you're likely to have to lose some weight, it doesn't mean he was in terrible shape. Being in shape and being in shape for fighting are two different things entirely, especially as these days most fighters fight at least one, and normally two or more weight classes below their natural fighting weight. Ricky Hatton is 154 or thereabouts on fight night, so should be fighting at light middle! Imagine if he had to take a fight at short notice, he'd have to hack both his arms off.

[DIRT SUGAR]

I know it's in the nature of the sport – you'd just think that with all the dietary information at our fingertips these days that fighters could keep their walking around weight to fight weight ratio more sensibly, rather than risk their health. Being Bernard Hopkins has nothing to do with sensible, decent nutrition. My only reason for this post is that I care about a fighter's wellbeing and I found the above article I mentioned yet another shocking insight into modern boxing.

[dondada]

Yes, take your points, Dirt.

Answer this then. Is 157 a sensible weight for a light-middle to walk around at?

(I think Francis had to make 150 for Coyle though...not sure).

[jamesmcdonnell]

Yes, take your points, Dirt.

Answer this then. Is 157 a sensible weight for a light-middle to walk around at?

(I think Francis had to make 150 for Coyle though...not sure).

I'd say that it was pretty exemplary.....

[silkov]

why did he have to get down to 150??.... thats what puzzles me?... if he was walking around at 157 thats only 3 pounds over the light-middle limit which is hardly a sign of lack of dedication imo... why wasnt the fight made at 154??... it seems foolish to make a fight at 150 and thereby put a fighters health at risk by making him go through the weight making huhar described when 150 isnt even the recognised limit for the division??!.... I'd say it was the promoters etc who are making the fight who are at fault here rather than the fighter himself who is just trying to get a payday...

[DIRT SUGAR]

I'd say 157 is okay for a light-middle to walk around at.

But any fighter who is asked to drop half a stone in about a day is being asked to put his health at risk and obviously a fighter who has no fights on the horizon and who is in need of a fight is going to say yes. 'Fighters fight' as he saying goes.

You read the article and see what he's going through and then think he has to fight the next day? It's crazy, however you look at it.

Go to the link and I assume the picture is of the said boxer and tell me where he's meant to lose seven pounds from!?

http://www.om-shantiphotography.co.uk/page21.htm

I'd implore all fighters to move up in weight where you can build your strength up over the long term, rather than gain physical advantages by draining yourself then just filling yourself up with fluid after the weigh-in.

In the long-term a healthy diet and weight monitoring has to be a healthier option.

[dondada]

I'd say 157 is okay for a light-middle to walk around at.

But any fighter who is asked to drop half a stone in about a day is being asked to put his health at risk and obviously a fighter who has no fights on the horizon and who is in need of a fight is going to say yes. 'Fighters fight' as he saying goes.

You read the article and see what he's going through and then think he has to fight the next day? It's crazy, however you look at it.

Go to the link and I assume the picture is of the said boxer and tell me where he's meant to lose seven pounds from!?

http://www.om-shantiphotography.co.uk/page21.htm

I'd implore all fighters to move up in weight where you can build your strength up over the long term, rather than gain physical advantages by draining yourself then just filling yourself up with fluid after the weigh-in.

In the long-term a healthy diet and weight monitoring has to be a healthier option.

Spot on, Dirt. I got a bit touchy earlier as I know your observations do apply to many but thought it was unfair in this case.

Actually, knowing Francis, he might very well have overdone it to be on the safe side. He never turns down a fight.

The silly bastard agreed a rematch with Matthew Hatton the morning after he'd had a gruelling points loss to Ali Nuumbembe. The fight was for the following Friday! He wasn't returning my calls that week...think he knew I would give him a blast.

He was totally knackered of course and got stopped which wouldn't have happened if he'd waited a month.

[Rocky Balboa]

Fighters losing too much weight in a short period of time is a big concern for me. How can this be stopped? Same day weigh-ins? Random weigh-ins during camp etc? Well, in all honestly, I don't believe there's a viable solution to stop it completely.

It's been common knowledge for a long time now, that fighters try to boil down to the lowest they can get, feeling they will have an advantage come fight time after re-hydrating, eating etc. IMO, all this does is put avoidable pressure on their bodies, both physically & mentally.

I bet there are a few trainers out there who are guilty of letting their fighter/s go through a similar procedure of "making the weight". Look at what Diego Corrales revealed for the fight with Cssamayor. Apparently, Diego had not eatne anything of any substance in about four days & sucked on ice-cubes to avoid drinking lots of water. Crazy or what!

With the game rife with fighters gaining a lot of weight in between the weigh-in & fight time, I often wonder how much weight the "old timers" put on when they use to weigh-in on the day of the fight?

Boxing is dangerous enough without more being added to the risks & dangers.