http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=008997
56 wins (27kos) - 16 losses - 7 draws
I saw a program the other day about the former welterweight and middleweight champion Carmen Basilio. I hadn't seen much of him before but they showed several of his fights and man, what a fighter he was.
Interestingly Ring magazine's 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958 and 1959 fights of the year all involved Basilio !!!
He of course beat Sugar Ray Robinson to win the middleweigt title but lost the rematch although it was controversial and many though Basilio won.
His only two stoppage defeats were to Gene Fulmer but were highly controversial with the referee stopping both fights too early. The second stoppage defeat Basilio almost punched the referee in rage and in the program I saw he claimed the referee was dodgy and had bet on Fulmer to win.
He also lost to the great Kid Gavilion by split decision but was only the second person to floor Gavilion who was having his 112th fight.
In the program Basilo was asked if he thought Robinson was a great fighter and he said no. There was dislike between the two though so that probably explains that.
Any one else's thoughts or storys about Basilio?
Carmen Basilio
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turn2stone
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robert.snell1
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Gavilan v Basillio
Gavilan v Basillio
Sept 1953
Carmen Knocks Champ Down In 2nd Round
Verdict Gets Vast Booing From Crowd
Kid Gavilan retained his world's -welterweight championship after a rugged,battle with Carmen Basilio in the War Memorial last night. But he had to settle for a split decision in the hard-fought 15-round battle before 6,803 tense spectators. Basilio had the satisfaction of knocking the champion to the canvas in the second round, the only knockdown of the bout, but Carmen's tendency to puff up around the left eye cost him the chance he set up with a flashy early attack.
Referee Pelted
In the late rounds, Basilio's eye puffed up badly, and his inability to follow Gavilan's jabs, as he had earlier, seemed to make the big difference. The crowd, violently pro-Basilio, shouted and booed when the decision was announced, and Referee George Walsh, who came from New York City to handle the city's biggest boxing bout in history, was pelted with programs and papers as he left the auditorium.
.
Walsh gave Gavilan the widest margin, but even his vote of eight for the Cuban Kid. six rounds for Canastota's Basilio and one round even indicated the closeness of the battle.
CASTS DISSENTING VOTE
Judge George Barnes, also from New York City, called it closer, but still for Gavilan, by a 7-6-2 margin, which is about as close as it could be without calling it a draw. Judge Jack Kimball, the only Syracusan among the balloters. voted for Basilio, calling it seven for the Canastota clouter, five for Gavilan and three rounds even. Although the gross gate set an all-time Syracuse record for receipts, it fell short of advance estimates. The gross gate was $74,317, with the not gate going to $57,159.37 after taxes. The crowd also was below expectations, with no question that the fact it was a Jewish holy day, Yom Kippur, having an adverse effect on the turnout. The paid attendance was 6,440, with an overall-attendance of 6,803. The $20 top also scared away many who had been regular customers at previous Memorial battles.
SHADE FOR BASILIO
The fight was televised .nationally, with a 100-mile radius blacked out from the video cameras.If the TV fans saw it as it happened they watched a . fine battle which was close enough to cause many an argument Opinion around ringside, however, was that if Basilio had a margin, it probably wasn't enough to strip Gavilan of his world's title.
The writer saw Basilio with a shade the better of it With Carmen's early lead largely dissipated by Gavilan's comeback in . the later rounds. I had it seven rounds for Basilio, six for Gavilan, and two even. That made it almost as close as it was scored by Jack Hand veteran Associated Press fight expert, who had it a draw, with six rounds for each and three even.
Carmen, who barely made the class limit at 147 pounds, and who had a quarter of a pound edge on the champion at the weigh-in, was the aggressor most of the way, with Gavilan standing off and biding his time so much that the fans called him a ."cheese champion” for his failure to match Basilio's aggressiveness.
WORKS ON OPTIC
When Gavilan opened up in the later rounds, however, he kept working on Carmen's bad eye, .and unquestionably he piled up plenty of points through that route. Even so Basilio matched him in most of the Cuban Kid's famous flurries. In the 15th Basilio not only matched Gavilan's flurry, but made the champion step away from the encounter. The knockdown, which came with dramatic suddenness, not only put Basilio ahead but taught Gavilan plenty of respect for the Canastotan, and it was several rounds before the kid started punching with the authority he had shown in the opening round.
LEFT HOOK DUMPS KID
After a slow start, during which Carmen landed a couple of solid hooks, Gavilan came on strong and earned the first-round verdict, with a thunderous flurry. In the second, Carmen got to Gavilan with a solid left hand, rocked him with it, and then followed up with another left hook which floored the champion. He got up at the count of three, apparently not badly hurt, and Carmen tried to follow up his advantage, but Gavilan tied him up most of the way to the bell. Basilio. still was trying to make the most of his advantage in the third round, and Gavilan was on the retreat, out when the kid opened up with a flurry, Carmen stayed with him, punch for punch.
BASILLO SHIFTS ATTACK
For the first time, in the fourth round , Basilio shifted his attack To the body and landed a couple of beauties to the midsection. Gavilan fought back furiously but he got no better than an even Break in the round ending exchange.
Gavilan hardly bothered to put on a flurry in the fifth, contenting himself With backing away forcing Basilio to move in and make whatever fight there was at that time. The champion finally opened up with both barrels in the sixth and although Gavilan won the heavy exchange and the round.
CARMEN TAKES CHARGE
Carmen came back in the seventh and took the lead with good rights and lefts To the head. While Gavilan was sticking out his left and missing most of his shots. They went Into a head to head exchange along the ropes but Carmen stayed even with him to the bell.
Basilio was chasing Gavilan furiously in the eighth forcing Him into the corner early in the round but he was swinging wildly and Although Basilio stayed on top of him the Kid managed to tie him up On the inside.
The left eye of the Canastotan which Had been puffing up a bit in the early rounds from Gavilan’s jabs finally Seemed to be all but closed in the ninth but Gavilan Seemed loath to go to work on it and Carmen, busy bobbing to prevent Further damage, lost his aggressive edge in this the slowest round
LANDS BOLO PUNCH
The famous bolo punch, which Gavilan had thrown only once or twice earlier, finally came into play in the 10th and with his looping, underhand shot, the Kid opened up Basilio's nose and had him bleeding badly. Basilio had to hang on a bit, but he was still punching at the bell.
Working to the body and hitting hard, varying his shots with a series of rabbit punches whenever they were in close. Gavilan seemed to have Basilio tired in the llth. but Carmen stayed in and swung. However, that fusillade to the midsection had taken much of the sting out of Carmen's
blows.
KID HURT IN 12TH
Although Gavilan continued to aim at Basilio's eye in the 12th and landed some clean shots there. Carmen found the strength to open up and rock Gavilan in a hot exchange Gavilan came out of that flurry sneering, but he had been hurt for a flash and he was careful about starting any more serious slugging.
Gavilan produced little action in the 13th, with Carmen again forced to move In to make it interesting but there were no real exchanges in this round which Like the ninth was a dull three minutes. Some of the heaviest punches of the fight were thrown in the 14th, but Gavilan's blows seemed to carry a shade more authority.
MAKES GALLANT FINISH
The 15th, with Gavilan showing only a slight cut around his mouth and with Basilio bleeding freely, brought a surprise when Carmen, opening up in the second minute, outfought the champion and forced him to break down.
Because of the number of knockouts on the preliminary card, the main event went on promptly and it was the seventh and final bout on the card. Gavilan, early installed a 3.5 to 1 favorite, gained stronger supportafter the noon weigh-in, and the odds were about 5 to 1 in favor of the champion an hour before fight time.
While Gavilan was expected to have -trouble making the 147-pound welterweight limit, the Cuban Hawk made it with a quarter of a pound to spare. Surprisingly, Basilio weighed in at 148, and he had to work out for several minutes in order to sweat off the excess pound.
EXPLAIN TROUBLE
This development reacted favor of Gavilan, as far as the gamblers were concerned, although Basilio's handlers had an easy explanation. Joe Netro, one of Basilio's handlers, said that Carmen had been well below the 147-pound limit three days before the fight date. As a result, he drilled only lightly, and ate rather heavily on Thursday. He still was under the limit the limit according to scales At his training camp in Sylvan Beach, but it was learned that those Scales didn’t check with the official scales used for the weighing in.
Sept 1953
Carmen Knocks Champ Down In 2nd Round
Verdict Gets Vast Booing From Crowd
Kid Gavilan retained his world's -welterweight championship after a rugged,battle with Carmen Basilio in the War Memorial last night. But he had to settle for a split decision in the hard-fought 15-round battle before 6,803 tense spectators. Basilio had the satisfaction of knocking the champion to the canvas in the second round, the only knockdown of the bout, but Carmen's tendency to puff up around the left eye cost him the chance he set up with a flashy early attack.
Referee Pelted
In the late rounds, Basilio's eye puffed up badly, and his inability to follow Gavilan's jabs, as he had earlier, seemed to make the big difference. The crowd, violently pro-Basilio, shouted and booed when the decision was announced, and Referee George Walsh, who came from New York City to handle the city's biggest boxing bout in history, was pelted with programs and papers as he left the auditorium.
.
Walsh gave Gavilan the widest margin, but even his vote of eight for the Cuban Kid. six rounds for Canastota's Basilio and one round even indicated the closeness of the battle.
CASTS DISSENTING VOTE
Judge George Barnes, also from New York City, called it closer, but still for Gavilan, by a 7-6-2 margin, which is about as close as it could be without calling it a draw. Judge Jack Kimball, the only Syracusan among the balloters. voted for Basilio, calling it seven for the Canastota clouter, five for Gavilan and three rounds even. Although the gross gate set an all-time Syracuse record for receipts, it fell short of advance estimates. The gross gate was $74,317, with the not gate going to $57,159.37 after taxes. The crowd also was below expectations, with no question that the fact it was a Jewish holy day, Yom Kippur, having an adverse effect on the turnout. The paid attendance was 6,440, with an overall-attendance of 6,803. The $20 top also scared away many who had been regular customers at previous Memorial battles.
SHADE FOR BASILIO
The fight was televised .nationally, with a 100-mile radius blacked out from the video cameras.If the TV fans saw it as it happened they watched a . fine battle which was close enough to cause many an argument Opinion around ringside, however, was that if Basilio had a margin, it probably wasn't enough to strip Gavilan of his world's title.
The writer saw Basilio with a shade the better of it With Carmen's early lead largely dissipated by Gavilan's comeback in . the later rounds. I had it seven rounds for Basilio, six for Gavilan, and two even. That made it almost as close as it was scored by Jack Hand veteran Associated Press fight expert, who had it a draw, with six rounds for each and three even.
Carmen, who barely made the class limit at 147 pounds, and who had a quarter of a pound edge on the champion at the weigh-in, was the aggressor most of the way, with Gavilan standing off and biding his time so much that the fans called him a ."cheese champion” for his failure to match Basilio's aggressiveness.
WORKS ON OPTIC
When Gavilan opened up in the later rounds, however, he kept working on Carmen's bad eye, .and unquestionably he piled up plenty of points through that route. Even so Basilio matched him in most of the Cuban Kid's famous flurries. In the 15th Basilio not only matched Gavilan's flurry, but made the champion step away from the encounter. The knockdown, which came with dramatic suddenness, not only put Basilio ahead but taught Gavilan plenty of respect for the Canastotan, and it was several rounds before the kid started punching with the authority he had shown in the opening round.
LEFT HOOK DUMPS KID
After a slow start, during which Carmen landed a couple of solid hooks, Gavilan came on strong and earned the first-round verdict, with a thunderous flurry. In the second, Carmen got to Gavilan with a solid left hand, rocked him with it, and then followed up with another left hook which floored the champion. He got up at the count of three, apparently not badly hurt, and Carmen tried to follow up his advantage, but Gavilan tied him up most of the way to the bell. Basilio. still was trying to make the most of his advantage in the third round, and Gavilan was on the retreat, out when the kid opened up with a flurry, Carmen stayed with him, punch for punch.
BASILLO SHIFTS ATTACK
For the first time, in the fourth round , Basilio shifted his attack To the body and landed a couple of beauties to the midsection. Gavilan fought back furiously but he got no better than an even Break in the round ending exchange.
Gavilan hardly bothered to put on a flurry in the fifth, contenting himself With backing away forcing Basilio to move in and make whatever fight there was at that time. The champion finally opened up with both barrels in the sixth and although Gavilan won the heavy exchange and the round.
CARMEN TAKES CHARGE
Carmen came back in the seventh and took the lead with good rights and lefts To the head. While Gavilan was sticking out his left and missing most of his shots. They went Into a head to head exchange along the ropes but Carmen stayed even with him to the bell.
Basilio was chasing Gavilan furiously in the eighth forcing Him into the corner early in the round but he was swinging wildly and Although Basilio stayed on top of him the Kid managed to tie him up On the inside.
The left eye of the Canastotan which Had been puffing up a bit in the early rounds from Gavilan’s jabs finally Seemed to be all but closed in the ninth but Gavilan Seemed loath to go to work on it and Carmen, busy bobbing to prevent Further damage, lost his aggressive edge in this the slowest round
LANDS BOLO PUNCH
The famous bolo punch, which Gavilan had thrown only once or twice earlier, finally came into play in the 10th and with his looping, underhand shot, the Kid opened up Basilio's nose and had him bleeding badly. Basilio had to hang on a bit, but he was still punching at the bell.
Working to the body and hitting hard, varying his shots with a series of rabbit punches whenever they were in close. Gavilan seemed to have Basilio tired in the llth. but Carmen stayed in and swung. However, that fusillade to the midsection had taken much of the sting out of Carmen's
blows.
KID HURT IN 12TH
Although Gavilan continued to aim at Basilio's eye in the 12th and landed some clean shots there. Carmen found the strength to open up and rock Gavilan in a hot exchange Gavilan came out of that flurry sneering, but he had been hurt for a flash and he was careful about starting any more serious slugging.
Gavilan produced little action in the 13th, with Carmen again forced to move In to make it interesting but there were no real exchanges in this round which Like the ninth was a dull three minutes. Some of the heaviest punches of the fight were thrown in the 14th, but Gavilan's blows seemed to carry a shade more authority.
MAKES GALLANT FINISH
The 15th, with Gavilan showing only a slight cut around his mouth and with Basilio bleeding freely, brought a surprise when Carmen, opening up in the second minute, outfought the champion and forced him to break down.
Because of the number of knockouts on the preliminary card, the main event went on promptly and it was the seventh and final bout on the card. Gavilan, early installed a 3.5 to 1 favorite, gained stronger supportafter the noon weigh-in, and the odds were about 5 to 1 in favor of the champion an hour before fight time.
While Gavilan was expected to have -trouble making the 147-pound welterweight limit, the Cuban Hawk made it with a quarter of a pound to spare. Surprisingly, Basilio weighed in at 148, and he had to work out for several minutes in order to sweat off the excess pound.
EXPLAIN TROUBLE
This development reacted favor of Gavilan, as far as the gamblers were concerned, although Basilio's handlers had an easy explanation. Joe Netro, one of Basilio's handlers, said that Carmen had been well below the 147-pound limit three days before the fight date. As a result, he drilled only lightly, and ate rather heavily on Thursday. He still was under the limit the limit according to scales At his training camp in Sylvan Beach, but it was learned that those Scales didn’t check with the official scales used for the weighing in.
I was watching this show on Robinson the other day it says How Carmen went to go shake his hand and Robinson just shrugged off Carmen replied im going kick that Son of a bitches ass.. or something like that..KOJOE90 wrote:Carmen Basilio was a real warrior and hard as nails. I get the feeling he never really forgave Robinson for not giving him a rubber match.
I have known him since I could walk. He is regarded as a member of my family.
Stories ?
Almost don't know where to begin. Here are just a few that may not be widely known
He is best known for his fights with Robinson and Gavilan, but always said his most memorable fights to him were with Lew Jenkins, Ike Williams, and Johnny Saxton.
His lack of respect for Robinson, comes part from the fact that the feeling was always mutual, and part because contrary to some romanticized history, Robinson was not a stand up guy. he was in fact, an ass.
Carmen would sum it up when he would always say "Robinson wouldn't tell the truth to God."
Years before they fought Carmen one approached Robinson and wanted to shake his hand and tell him that he admired him. Robinson openly snubbed him. Carmen is NOT the kind of guy who forgets or forgives something like that
There is a lot of myth surrounding Carman, and he will be the first to set the record straight.
ESPN did a special on how Carmen 'took on the mob" and had to fight tooth and nail to keep them off his back. made for great drama, it just happens to be total crap.
The fact is, guys like Gabe Genovese and Frankie Carbo left Carmen alone and never tried to make him their puppet, because they knew him and respected him. Joe Netro summed it up in an interview once, when he spoke without thinking. he said " How in the hell could Genovese make us fix a fight ? The guy already owes ME money!" People thought he was joking...he wasn’t. These guys were not alter boys. Johnny once threatened to "Bury" one of Robinson's seconds, and he wasn’t joking.
Carmen is a walking duality. Humble and arrogant, rough but refined, open and private all at the same time.
He is the kind of guy who fit in with country club types, gangsters, and knock around blue collar neighborhood guys without missing a beat.
Away from the gym and the ring, he, Joe Netro and Johnny DeJohn were a non stop comedy act, always cutting up and goofing on each other, but when it came to business, they could work promoters and out con the con artists like nobody else. Between the three of them, they maybe had a combined 8th grade education, but no one had street smarts like these guys.
A common story is that Carmen fought Robinson for next to nothing in the first fight, that however, is total myth.
Robinson wanted no part of Carmen and he low balled him on the purse. The only way the Robinson fight ever happened, was that Johnny and Joe double talked Robinson's camp so badly, they ended up agreeing to a deal that gave Carmen a bigger share of the purse then he originally asked for. Netro would later say, "I think I just sold the Brooklyn bridge"
DeJohn later said "See? I'm learning this game huh ?"
Carmen never lost his famous sense of humor. Once he was asked how he thought he compared to Marvin Hagler. he answered "I dunno, he is a lot younger then me, but I still think I can take him.
After boxing, Carman owned an Italian sausage factory, He has a stand at the NY state fair thatb sold sausage sandwiches every year. it's sign read:
Bad food, warm beer, ugly women"
Stories ?
Almost don't know where to begin. Here are just a few that may not be widely known
He is best known for his fights with Robinson and Gavilan, but always said his most memorable fights to him were with Lew Jenkins, Ike Williams, and Johnny Saxton.
His lack of respect for Robinson, comes part from the fact that the feeling was always mutual, and part because contrary to some romanticized history, Robinson was not a stand up guy. he was in fact, an ass.
Carmen would sum it up when he would always say "Robinson wouldn't tell the truth to God."
Years before they fought Carmen one approached Robinson and wanted to shake his hand and tell him that he admired him. Robinson openly snubbed him. Carmen is NOT the kind of guy who forgets or forgives something like that
There is a lot of myth surrounding Carman, and he will be the first to set the record straight.
ESPN did a special on how Carmen 'took on the mob" and had to fight tooth and nail to keep them off his back. made for great drama, it just happens to be total crap.
The fact is, guys like Gabe Genovese and Frankie Carbo left Carmen alone and never tried to make him their puppet, because they knew him and respected him. Joe Netro summed it up in an interview once, when he spoke without thinking. he said " How in the hell could Genovese make us fix a fight ? The guy already owes ME money!" People thought he was joking...he wasn’t. These guys were not alter boys. Johnny once threatened to "Bury" one of Robinson's seconds, and he wasn’t joking.
Carmen is a walking duality. Humble and arrogant, rough but refined, open and private all at the same time.
He is the kind of guy who fit in with country club types, gangsters, and knock around blue collar neighborhood guys without missing a beat.
Away from the gym and the ring, he, Joe Netro and Johnny DeJohn were a non stop comedy act, always cutting up and goofing on each other, but when it came to business, they could work promoters and out con the con artists like nobody else. Between the three of them, they maybe had a combined 8th grade education, but no one had street smarts like these guys.
A common story is that Carmen fought Robinson for next to nothing in the first fight, that however, is total myth.
Robinson wanted no part of Carmen and he low balled him on the purse. The only way the Robinson fight ever happened, was that Johnny and Joe double talked Robinson's camp so badly, they ended up agreeing to a deal that gave Carmen a bigger share of the purse then he originally asked for. Netro would later say, "I think I just sold the Brooklyn bridge"
DeJohn later said "See? I'm learning this game huh ?"
Carmen never lost his famous sense of humor. Once he was asked how he thought he compared to Marvin Hagler. he answered "I dunno, he is a lot younger then me, but I still think I can take him.
After boxing, Carman owned an Italian sausage factory, He has a stand at the NY state fair thatb sold sausage sandwiches every year. it's sign read:
Bad food, warm beer, ugly women"
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Controversial
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 9160
- Joined: 13 Jul 2002, 18:29
Cosand, do you know if he was ever floored and who he rated as the toughest fighter he fought?cosand wrote:I have known him since I could walk. He is regarded as a member of my family.
Stories ?
Almost don't know where to begin. Here are just a few that may not be widely known
He is best known for his fights with Robinson and Gavilan, but always said his most memorable fights to him were with Lew Jenkins, Ike Williams, and Johnny Saxton.
His lack of respect for Robinson, comes part from the fact that the feeling was always mutual, and part because contrary to some romanticized history, Robinson was not a stand up guy. he was in fact, an ass.
Carmen would sum it up when he would always say "Robinson wouldn't tell the truth to God."
Years before they fought Carmen one approached Robinson and wanted to shake his hand and tell him that he admired him. Robinson openly snubbed him. Carmen is NOT the kind of guy who forgets or forgives something like that
There is a lot of myth surrounding Carman, and he will be the first to set the record straight.
ESPN did a special on how Carmen 'took on the mob" and had to fight tooth and nail to keep them off his back. made for great drama, it just happens to be total crap.
The fact is, guys like Gabe Genovese and Frankie Carbo left Carmen alone and never tried to make him their puppet, because they knew him and respected him. Joe Netro summed it up in an interview once, when he spoke without thinking. he said " How in the hell could Genovese make us fix a fight ? The guy already owes ME money!" People thought he was joking...he wasn’t. These guys were not alter boys. Johnny once threatened to "Bury" one of Robinson's seconds, and he wasn’t joking.
Carmen is a walking duality. Humble and arrogant, rough but refined, open and private all at the same time.
He is the kind of guy who fit in with country club types, gangsters, and knock around blue collar neighborhood guys without missing a beat.
Away from the gym and the ring, he, Joe Netro and Johnny DeJohn were a non stop comedy act, always cutting up and goofing on each other, but when it came to business, they could work promoters and out con the con artists like nobody else. Between the three of them, they maybe had a combined 8th grade education, but no one had street smarts like these guys.
A common story is that Carmen fought Robinson for next to nothing in the first fight, that however, is total myth.
Robinson wanted no part of Carmen and he low balled him on the purse. The only way the Robinson fight ever happened, was that Johnny and Joe double talked Robinson's camp so badly, they ended up agreeing to a deal that gave Carmen a bigger share of the purse then he originally asked for. Netro would later say, "I think I just sold the Brooklyn bridge"
DeJohn later said "See? I'm learning this game huh ?"
Carmen never lost his famous sense of humor. Once he was asked how he thought he compared to Marvin Hagler. he answered "I dunno, he is a lot younger then me, but I still think I can take him.
After boxing, Carman owned an Italian sausage factory, He has a stand at the NY state fair thatb sold sausage sandwiches every year. it's sign read:
Bad food, warm beer, ugly women"
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elmersalsa
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 15667
- Joined: 02 Feb 2003, 03:50
Imet him in a hotel here in Atlanta, GA back in 1999. I told my coworkers that "You see that old man over there?...He was one of the toughest and roughest fighters that ever lived in boxing: Carmen Basilio!!!"
My co workers of course, did not know what I was talking about, and had no idea about the history of boxing. Basilio made my day that day when he shook my hand. I said "Wow, I shook the great Carmen Basilio's hand!!!"
A couple of people were around him and he also talked about that he fought Sugar Ray twice. Also in that hotel, I met Meldrick Taylor, Livingstone Bramble, and Buck Smith. I met also Johnny Gant, a welterweight contender of the 1970s.
My co workers of course, did not know what I was talking about, and had no idea about the history of boxing. Basilio made my day that day when he shook my hand. I said "Wow, I shook the great Carmen Basilio's hand!!!"
A couple of people were around him and he also talked about that he fought Sugar Ray twice. Also in that hotel, I met Meldrick Taylor, Livingstone Bramble, and Buck Smith. I met also Johnny Gant, a welterweight contender of the 1970s.
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elmersalsa
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 02 Feb 2003, 03:50
As far as I know he was only down twice, one against Drain and i beleive once against Fulmer.
He alwatys said his toughest fights were the first loss to Fulmer, the first fight with Saxton, and the second fight against DeMarco. He called the 7th round of the DeMarco fight the closest thing to hell you can go throgh and still be alive.
According to him, Billy Grahm was tough opponent, but he was never actually hurt in the loss.
He alwatys said his toughest fights were the first loss to Fulmer, the first fight with Saxton, and the second fight against DeMarco. He called the 7th round of the DeMarco fight the closest thing to hell you can go throgh and still be alive.
According to him, Billy Grahm was tough opponent, but he was never actually hurt in the loss.
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el tigre del sur
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 97
- Joined: 06 Jul 2006, 06:01
This is the story I've heard repeatedly over time and to a guy as obviously proud as Basilio this would have provided plenty of personal motivation to tear it up with Robinson.cosand wrote:Years before they fought Carmen one approached Robinson and wanted to shake his hand and tell him that he admired him. Robinson openly snubbed him. Carmen is NOT the kind of guy who forgets or forgives something like that
Thanks for your post cosand - be interested in hearing more about Carmen. Gotta love those "old school" guys.
el tigre del sur Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:09 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
cosand wrote:
Years before they fought Carmen one approached Robinson and wanted to shake his hand and tell him that he admired him. Robinson openly snubbed him. Carmen is NOT the kind of guy who forgets or forgives something like that
This is the story I've heard repeatedly over time and to a guy as obviously proud as Basilio this would have provided plenty of personal motivation to tear it up with Robinson.
Thanks for your post cosand - be interested in hearing more about Carmen. Gotta love those "old school" guys.
Another interesting thing is if you go back to the very beginning. Let me bore everyone with some history/geography for a minute to get to the interesting part. When you talk about “rags to riches” stories. forget the Cinderella man, forget “Rocky” the story of Basillio, is the ultimate example
There is an area of Upstate NY, located West and north of Syracuse, in Madison, Oswego and parts of Northwestern Oneida Counties, that even to this day, has some of the worse rural poverty in America.
The land is made up of a super saturated highly fertile dirt known as “muck”. When the Dutch first settled this area in the 1700s, they discovered this land was ideal for the cultivating of root and green leafy vegetables. There was never any large scale agriculture established though, only small family farms. At the beginning of the 1900s, this land was the destination of immigrants, mostly from southwestern Italy and Sicily. These Italian immigrants wee the poorest of the poor. Most didn’t even come through Ellis island because they didn’t have the means to come over on ocean passenger ships. They mostly agreed to come over to Canada on freight ships, and work along the way to pay for their passage, they then crossed the St Lawrence river into the US. They then settled in the “muck” and either grew food to sell and feed their families, or worked for next to nothing on one of the farms that were there.. For most families, this was their only means of support.
Basillio was the son of one of these immigrant families. It is said he is from Canastota, and that is more or less true, but to be more accurate he came from a rural area outside Canastota. Canastota to these people was like NY City, and nearby Syracuse might as well have been Paris. This is how isolated and homogeneous they were. When Carmen finally did break out of that, he had years of frustration to vent, and that showed in his will and determination as a fighter.
You hear a lot about people who made something of themselves from nothing. To people like Carmen, “Nothing” would have been a luxury. These people literally had less then nothing. They in most cases, for the first two generations, never even had documentation as Americans, because their families entered the County outside the authority of immigration, so even during the great depression, most could not even get government assistance. .
Why no one has ever made a movie about this guy who came from wrenching poverty to be the champion of the world, is amazing to me.
Probably just as well, becuase they would, as Hollywood almost always does, butcher the story
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elmersalsa
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cosand wrote:el tigre del sur Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:09 pm Post subject:
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cosand wrote:
Years before they fought Carmen one approached Robinson and wanted to shake his hand and tell him that he admired him. Robinson openly snubbed him. Carmen is NOT the kind of guy who forgets or forgives something like that
This is the story I've heard repeatedly over time and to a guy as obviously proud as Basilio this would have provided plenty of personal motivation to tear it up with Robinson.
Thanks for your post cosand - be interested in hearing more about Carmen. Gotta love those "old school" guys.
Another interesting thing is if you go back to the very beginning. Let me bore everyone with some history/geography for a minute to get to the interesting part. When you talk about “rags to riches” stories. forget the Cinderella man, forget “Rocky” the story of Basillio, is the ultimate example
There is an area of Upstate NY, located West and north of Syracuse, in Madison, Oswego and parts of Northwestern Oneida Counties, that even to this day, has some of the worse rural poverty in America.
The land is made up of a super saturated highly fertile dirt known as “muck”. When the Dutch first settled this area in the 1700s, they discovered this land was ideal for the cultivating of root and green leafy vegetables. There was never any large scale agriculture established though, only small family farms. At the beginning of the 1900s, this land was the destination of immigrants, mostly from southwestern Italy and Sicily. These Italian immigrants wee the poorest of the poor. Most didn’t even come through Ellis island because they didn’t have the means to come over on ocean passenger ships. They mostly agreed to come over to Canada on freight ships, and work along the way to pay for their passage, they then crossed the St Lawrence river into the US. They then settled in the “muck” and either grew food to sell and feed their families, or worked for next to nothing on one of the farms that were there.. For most families, this was their only means of support.
Basillio was the son of one of these immigrant families. It is said he is from Canastota, and that is more or less true, but to be more accurate he came from a rural area outside Canastota. Canastota to these people was like NY City, and nearby Syracuse might as well have been Paris. This is how isolated and homogeneous they were. When Carmen finally did break out of that, he had years of frustration to vent, and that showed in his will and determination as a fighter.
You hear a lot about people who made something of themselves from nothing. To people like Carmen, “Nothing” would have been a luxury. These people literally had less then nothing. They in most cases, for the first two generations, never even had documentation as Americans, because their families entered the County outside the authority of immigration, so even during the great depression, most could not even get government assistance. .
Why no one has ever made a movie about this guy who came from wrenching poverty to be the champion of the world, is amazing to me.
Probably just as well, becuase they would, as Hollywood almost always does, butcher the story
Oh man, great story!!!
Ive enjoyed reading this thread immensely and am myself a big Basillio fan.To me BAsilio belongs with the top 50 greatest fighters of all time. Forget Roy Jones, Jr!!!
However the quote above is an example of exaggeration's caused by sentimentality and nostalgia.
Jones was a much more dominating fighter than Basillio and was undoubtedly the best fighter in the sport for at least a decade. He easily beat two future first ballot HOFamers in thier prime, and avenged the only "loss" in his prime more resoundingly than almost any fighter in history, with one of the obvious exception being Louis/Schmeling 2 of course. Every other opponent barely posed a challenge at him; and contrary to whats now popular belief, their was alot of very good ones.
At Jones peak he seemed otherworldly. His combination of speed and power appeared unparalleled. On his way back down from heavyweight, Jones suddenly just lost it. Unfortunately his defeats at the hands of Tarver and Johnson will be used against him by allot of haters trying to downplay his legacy.
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Collins2000
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The exageration by the first poster has been trumped by your own.theone wrote:Ive enjoyed reading this thread immensely and am myself a big Basillio fan.To me BAsilio belongs with the top 50 greatest fighters of all time. Forget Roy Jones, Jr!!!
However the quote above is an example of exaggeration's caused by sentimentality and nostalgia.
Jones was a much more dominating fighter than Basillio and was undoubtedly the best fighter in the sport for at least a decade. He easily beat two future first ballot HOFamers in thier prime, and avenged the only "loss" in his prime more resoundingly than almost any fighter in history, with one of the obvious exception being Louis/Schmeling 2 of course. Every other opponent barely posed a challenge at him; and contrary to whats now popular belief, their was alot of very good ones.
At Jones peak he seemed otherworldly. His combination of speed and power appeared unparalleled. On his way back down from heavyweight, Jones suddenly just lost it. Unfortunately his defeats at the hands of Tarver and Johnson will be used against him by allot of haters trying to downplay his legacy.
How so? because I used the words other worldly? Have you ever heard of a metaphor? A figure of speech not to be taken literally? Or are you so ignorant you actually think I believe Jones is from outer space?The exageration by the first poster has been trumped by your own.
As for his skills appearing unparalleled, I stand by that. Name someone comparable if you can, rather than just posting something just to be an a**hole.
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Collins2000
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Crikey, we have a thin-skinned pointy-headed example here.theone wrote:How so? because I used the words other worldly? Have you ever heard of a metaphor? A figure of speech not to be taken literally? Or are you so ignorant you actually think I believe Jones is from outer space?The exageration by the first poster has been trumped by your own.
As for his skills appearing unparalleled, I stand by that. Name someone comparable if you can, rather than just posting something just to be an a**hole.
If I name someone comparable, will you accept that you are, in fact, a complete and utter pinhead?
OK, I won't trot out the usual names. I'll go with Ricardo Lopez. Pulled that name out of me arse, mate. But it will do.
Oh, and I forgot to mention, Bert would have owned Jones any day of the week. Jimbo will confirm that. He wrote a book about it. Well, sort of.
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robert.snell1
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stop
foolish comments which i hope will cease so that we can read more of fact rather than this !!!!
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Collins2000
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 06 May 2002, 06:13
Re: stop
robert.snell1 wrote:foolish comments which i hope will cease so that we can read more of fact rather than this !!!!
That's your opinion, Robert, and you are entitled to it.
But, I for one, would hate to see this forum reduced to people simply cutting and pasting old fight reports.
By your snide remarks I assume you are agreeing that Roy Jones skills are unparallelled?
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robert.snell1
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Collins2000
- Heavyweight
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Re: delete
robert.snell1 wrote:i think you should delete that last post it is not something with hindsight you would wish people to read.where you get "Snide" from is beyond me and the remarks on the reports i do are odd, given that you have clearly read them frequently.i will delete this post after your reply
So you think posting the remark "foolish comments" isn't snide, Robert?
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Collins2000
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Re: no
robert.snell1 wrote:no
No problem then.
As long as you can take it as well as give it, mate.
