It seems to me that these two have been strangely forgotten in the history of boxing, and wrongfully so. Especially Johansson. Johansson's only losses were to Patterson, and he was an inch from winning the 3rd fight. He beat every man he ever faced. Johansson had a very impressive win over Eddie Machen. He KO'd Machen in one round, in devastating fashion. Even Liston couldn't KO Machen, was given a tough 12 round fight by him, but Johansson dropped Machen barely a minute into the first round with his famous "Toonder and Lightning" right hand, and knocked him out by the end of the round. He also KO'd Henry Cooper. Cooper later nearly KO'd a prime Cassius Clay.
Johansson and Patterson had an incredible trilogy of fights against each other, knocking each other down 13 times in a total of 14 rounds! In the first fight, Johansson used a good game plan, throwing almost nothing but pawing jabs for the first two rounds of his fight with Patterson, two non-descript rounds. By the 3rd round, Patterson was sure that Johansson's famous right hand was a myth, just a media invention. Then, Johansson unleashed it early in the 3rd round, and it knocked Patterson senseless! Patterson went down, and when he heard the count, his brains were so scrambled he couldn't remember the knock down and thought HE had scored the knock down! Patterson then got up and walked to a neutral corner, and Johansson came up behind him and reached around to drop him again. Johansson dropped Patterson 5 more times until the ref stopped the fight.
After that, while Johansson lived the high life leading up to their rematch, an angry and determined Patterson trained extremely hard for their upcoming rematch, determined to regain the heavyweight title- something no man had ever done before. In their rematch, Patterson fought with far more intensity and killer instinct, more aggressively than the first time. In the 5th round of their rematch, Patterson caught Johansson and dropped him. Johansson barely beat the count the first time, and then got up, only to be dropped again by a beauty of a left hook, one of the best I've ever seen. Patterson leapt as he threw it, and connected flush on Johansson's jaw. Johansson was completely unconscious, and nothing moved for the entire 10-count, except Johansson's foot, which was twitching back and forth like he had been permanently brain damaged. It was one of the most disturbing, sickening KO's I've ever seen.
In Patterson and Johansson's 3rd fight, the climax of the series, they started out with one of the best rounds ever-Johansson started fast this time, catching Patterson off guard when he hadn't been expecting Johansson to use it that early. Johansson landed the right hand fast, and dropped Patterson twice! The 3 knockdown rule was in effect, and if Johansson could've dropped Patterson one more time, he would have become the second man to regain the heavyweight title, winning it from the first! But Johansson rushed in too fast, expecting Patterson to be finished, and was caught and dropped himself. Johansson later said in an interview, in a sad, wistful tone "I was so close, so close." Patterson and Johansson had a WAR of a 3rd fight. But Johansson was overweight for that fight, weighing unusually heavy at 205 and having a visible belly hanging over his trunks in that one, and he started to tire by the 5th round. Both men were cut and wobbled. In the 6th round, Patterson hurt Johansson with a left, then dropped him with two right hands, the second one on the back of the head. Johansson struggled to get up early in the count, got to his knees, but toppled back over. He then got set, and pushed himself to his feet in the same instant the ref counted 10, actually staggering into the ref upon rising. The ref declared that Johansson had been counted out, but many of the fans thought Johansson had beaten the count. I've watched it in slo-mo, and am convinced that Johansson actually did beat the count in that fight.
Johansson had only a few more fights, then retired and became a singer and an actor back in Sweden. Patterson fought on for years afterwards, and was actually very competitive into the 60's and 70's, beating many contenders.
I think the reason Patterson and Johansson's legacies have been so widely forgotten is the obvious one- when people think of Patterson, they think of him as 'the guy who got knocked out by Liston', quite often. Patterson was intimidated heavily and knocked out in the first rounds of both of his fights with Liston. And of course, Johansson was the guy who got knocked out by the guy who got knocked out by Liston, making him even more heavily forgotten about.
Floyd Patterson and Ingemar Johansson
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Marciano Frazier
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 326
- Joined: 29 Jul 2003, 13:13
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Dave1armedTua
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 204
- Joined: 01 Apr 2003, 22:29
Indeed. The knock downs that happened between those two were some of the most devastating I've ever seen. The only way to top those was if one guy got knocked out of the ring.,Me and Dutch Windmill were talking about the second knockdown the other day... Pretty weird to watch, as yes, Patterson grabbed the refs hands, and proceeded to walk to a neutral corner.
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Tyson KTFO 3 Times
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 157
- Joined: 08 Jul 2002, 11:51
the reason patterson reached for goldstein's hands and walked to his corner is because he thought HE had scored the knockdown...he was so out of it. he's told this many times. he also says the referee should have stopped it right then as he should have seen he was helpless. always said that was the hardest he had ever been hit . the amazing thing is that he kept getting up and going on the attack...on sheer instinct. if you look at the rest of the knockdowns you'll see mostly he was going down from shoves, glancing punches .....his legs were gone and he had never really recovered from that first knockdown.
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Dave1armedTua
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 204
- Joined: 01 Apr 2003, 22:29
As some of you may know I took my like of Patterson too far, but I'm glad MF here has said such justice.
I don't have access to the FTP, but I'm glad it's running, because now guys are appreciating these fights. You should show the fights to some of the morons at BoxingAddicts who go entirely on "The Illustrated History of Boxing" and never listen to anything about Floyd because they never saw his best fights(but of course they still talk as if they have).
I have said it before, I think they were my favourite fights. Ingemar had one of the greatest right hands in history, not because of it's great power, but because it came out so fast. Johansson was jabbing like a woodpecker then suddenlly he slapped with his left hand and the right came out like a flash. Floyd suddenly dropped on his back. In slow motion you can see it wasn't on the side of the jaw but the front, his head snapping back on his neck. It was one of the most sudden knockdowns.
One thing I didn't like about Ingemar is his jab was just a flick. He kept flicking Floyd with it.
And after the first real neat knockdown, Ingo went real sloppy. One "knockdown" he pulled Floyd around with his left hand, and flicked him while he was falling down. Most of the knockdowns he didn't catch Floyd very cleanly.
Floyd had such a physical disadvantage with his glass jaw, you can't not expect him to duck Liston. It wasn't necessary to get him on the side of the jaw, just the front of the chin would suffice, like Ingo did.
In the first Ingo fight and the two Liston fights that was NOT FLOYD PATTERSON!!! The real Floyd Patterson was the one in the second Ingo fight. He kept the double and triple jab in Ingos face, and his jab was very fast and very powerful, stepping in with it every time. He completely overwhelmed him that night. Not many HWs would beat him that night.
Nat Fleischer was totally wrong when he said, "Floyd is a snappy puncher, though his blows lack the steam of Louis, Dempsey.....". I thought Nat knew everything. Floyd was one of the best hitters in HW history. Only his blows were so fantastically fast. I may be crazy but I honestly think he was a better puncher than Louis.
When he stunned Ingo his hands went at Ingo at lightspeed, but still each one had KO power.
The last fight was strange in a way. Floyd lept in and caught Ingo with a long left hook between the eyes, a fast right hook which just grazed the ear(basically not enough to do any damage) and a right hook high on the head. Ingo fell face first, nearly got up but was counted out. Maybe the head banging off the ground did it, I don't know. If this is a legitimate knockout, then maybe Ali-v-Liston-II was too.
By the way, Dutch Windmill I PMed you about the FTP, I think you may have missed it. I've got a lot of fights I could upload, although I don't understand how you get a fight from a TV to a computer. I don't have a username and password though.
I don't have access to the FTP, but I'm glad it's running, because now guys are appreciating these fights. You should show the fights to some of the morons at BoxingAddicts who go entirely on "The Illustrated History of Boxing" and never listen to anything about Floyd because they never saw his best fights(but of course they still talk as if they have).
I have said it before, I think they were my favourite fights. Ingemar had one of the greatest right hands in history, not because of it's great power, but because it came out so fast. Johansson was jabbing like a woodpecker then suddenlly he slapped with his left hand and the right came out like a flash. Floyd suddenly dropped on his back. In slow motion you can see it wasn't on the side of the jaw but the front, his head snapping back on his neck. It was one of the most sudden knockdowns.
One thing I didn't like about Ingemar is his jab was just a flick. He kept flicking Floyd with it.
And after the first real neat knockdown, Ingo went real sloppy. One "knockdown" he pulled Floyd around with his left hand, and flicked him while he was falling down. Most of the knockdowns he didn't catch Floyd very cleanly.
Floyd had such a physical disadvantage with his glass jaw, you can't not expect him to duck Liston. It wasn't necessary to get him on the side of the jaw, just the front of the chin would suffice, like Ingo did.
In the first Ingo fight and the two Liston fights that was NOT FLOYD PATTERSON!!! The real Floyd Patterson was the one in the second Ingo fight. He kept the double and triple jab in Ingos face, and his jab was very fast and very powerful, stepping in with it every time. He completely overwhelmed him that night. Not many HWs would beat him that night.
Nat Fleischer was totally wrong when he said, "Floyd is a snappy puncher, though his blows lack the steam of Louis, Dempsey.....". I thought Nat knew everything. Floyd was one of the best hitters in HW history. Only his blows were so fantastically fast. I may be crazy but I honestly think he was a better puncher than Louis.
When he stunned Ingo his hands went at Ingo at lightspeed, but still each one had KO power.
The last fight was strange in a way. Floyd lept in and caught Ingo with a long left hook between the eyes, a fast right hook which just grazed the ear(basically not enough to do any damage) and a right hook high on the head. Ingo fell face first, nearly got up but was counted out. Maybe the head banging off the ground did it, I don't know. If this is a legitimate knockout, then maybe Ali-v-Liston-II was too.
By the way, Dutch Windmill I PMed you about the FTP, I think you may have missed it. I've got a lot of fights I could upload, although I don't understand how you get a fight from a TV to a computer. I don't have a username and password though.
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Marciano Frazier
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 326
- Joined: 29 Jul 2003, 13:13
Johansson didn't just nearly get up but get counted out in the 3rd Patterson fight. HE BEAT THE COUNT. I watched trhough it several times frame by frame after seeing it in regular speed and thinking he'd beaten the count. You can see, the ref counts 10 over Johansson a split second AFTER his gloves and knees have left the mat.Lopman wrote:As some of you may know I took my like of Patterson too far, but I'm glad MF here has said such justice.
I don't have access to the FTP, but I'm glad it's running, because now guys are appreciating these fights. You should show the fights to some of the morons at BoxingAddicts who go entirely on "The Illustrated History of Boxing" and never listen to anything about Floyd because they never saw his best fights(but of course they still talk as if they have).
I have said it before, I think they were my favourite fights. Ingemar had one of the greatest right hands in history, not because of it's great power, but because it came out so fast. Johansson was jabbing like a woodpecker then suddenlly he slapped with his left hand and the right came out like a flash. Floyd suddenly dropped on his back. In slow motion you can see it wasn't on the side of the jaw but the front, his head snapping back on his neck. It was one of the most sudden knockdowns.
One thing I didn't like about Ingemar is his jab was just a flick. He kept flicking Floyd with it.
And after the first real neat knockdown, Ingo went real sloppy. One "knockdown" he pulled Floyd around with his left hand, and flicked him while he was falling down. Most of the knockdowns he didn't catch Floyd very cleanly.
Floyd had such a physical disadvantage with his glass jaw, you can't not expect him to duck Liston. It wasn't necessary to get him on the side of the jaw, just the front of the chin would suffice, like Ingo did.
In the first Ingo fight and the two Liston fights that was NOT FLOYD PATTERSON!!! The real Floyd Patterson was the one in the second Ingo fight. He kept the double and triple jab in Ingos face, and his jab was very fast and very powerful, stepping in with it every time. He completely overwhelmed him that night. Not many HWs would beat him that night.
Nat Fleischer was totally wrong when he said, "Floyd is a snappy puncher, though his blows lack the steam of Louis, Dempsey.....". I thought Nat knew everything. Floyd was one of the best hitters in HW history. Only his blows were so fantastically fast. I may be crazy but I honestly think he was a better puncher than Louis.
When he stunned Ingo his hands went at Ingo at lightspeed, but still each one had KO power.
The last fight was strange in a way. Floyd lept in and caught Ingo with a long left hook between the eyes, a fast right hook which just grazed the ear(basically not enough to do any damage) and a right hook high on the head. Ingo fell face first, nearly got up but was counted out. Maybe the head banging off the ground did it, I don't know. If this is a legitimate knockout, then maybe Ali-v-Liston-II was too.
By the way, Dutch Windmill I PMed you about the FTP, I think you may have missed it. I've got a lot of fights I could upload, although I don't understand how you get a fight from a TV to a computer. I don't have a username and password though.
But I think Patterson would've KO'd him there anyway, if the ref. wouldn't've waved it off.
But of course the Patterson in the first Johansson fight was Floyd Patterson. You can't just say that if he lost he wasn't Floyd Patterson.